[dorkbotpdx-blabber] Techshop impressions

[paige saez]

Paul,

Thank you for that amazing re-cap of the presentation last night. It was
very comprehensive.
I feel like I was there! :)

p


On Feb 13, 2008 9:42 AM, Paul Stoffregen <paul at pjrc.com> wrote:

> I was pretty impressed with the Techshop presentation last night, after
> making the long trek out to Hillsboro.  For the benefit of everyone who
> couldn't make it, here's what I remember.
>
> As Thomas mentioned (during the meeting), the location will be in the NW
> industrial area, not way out in Hillsboro (and certainly not at the
> McMenamin's they used to host the meeting).  It was said to be close to
> a brewery.  The one mentioned (Pyramid) is actually in Seattle.  It
> could perhaps be the Portland Brewing Company, at 2730 NW 31st?  The
> specific address wasn't given and I didn't take notes on the other
> references that placed it within several blocks.  But it's definitely
> going to be in NW and not far outside of Portland proper.
>
> They mentioned creating a "heat map" of all the zip codes people entered
> when joined their announcement list.  Apparently a large portion were
> clustered in the North Portland area, and also some in the Beaverton &
> Hillsboro tech area.  31 locations were considered, and the distribution
> of zip codes weighed heavily on their decision for the NW location.
>
> July 4 was mentioned as their goal to open.
>
> They have definitely selected the building.  Specific details mentioned
> were 15000 square feet (which is double the space at Menlo Park) and 22
> foot high ceiling.
>
> Hours of operation aren't known yet.  The original (and only currently
> open one) in Menlo Park (SF bay area) is open 9am to midnight.  Their
> ultimate goal is to be open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  However, it
> costs money to stay open longer.  They require at least one paid staff
> person to be present at all times.  So longer hours require more paid
> members.
>
> The Menlo Park location currently has 350 members.  They have a cap at
> 500 members per location.  It sounded like they would definitely go to
> longer hours if they had all 500 memberships sold.
>
> Membership is $100 per month, or $1100 per year.  They also give
> lifetime membership as a perk to people who lend them money to use as
> the capital to open a new location.  That's $25k, repaid at 10% APR over
> 10 years.
>
> While 9 locations are opening this year, their goal is to eventually
> open hundreds of them worldwide.  Jim briefly made mention of input
> (perhaps a deeper relationship?) with the founder or someone from Kinkos.
>
> Each location is forming as its own LLC.  The exact business
> relationship wasn't clear to me, but the stated purpose was to make each
> one fairly independent financially.
>
> I had gone there expecting to feel like a customer hearing a pitch from
> a for-profit company.  They definitely are for-profit, and that was
> mentioned.  But Jim seemed very genuinely interested in community
> building.  That came through in many little mentions.  More on community
> building later.
>
> Jim (the founder and CEO) and Denney (who's opening the Portland
> location), and pretty much all of them are makers/builders.  They both
> were involved in the robot battle scene (Jim's "2nd car" was a battle
> bot that cost more than his car and could tow a truck), Jim worked for
> the Myth Busters show (which I've never seen... no TV), and lots of
> other projects no sane person would ever devote so much time to if not
> for the sheer love of building crazy stuff.
>
> There was talk about the machines.  The main point is they are
> "standardizing" on all brand new "core machines" for all Techshop
> locations.  When he started at Menlo Park less than 2 years ago, they
> got all used stuff as cheap as they could.  But as they intend to have
> lots of locations, they are aiming to have the "core" stuff be the same
> at all locations.  Brief mention of negotiating bulk purchasing of the
> machines was made.  Each location is probably going to add some other
> stuff that is in demand in that region.  In San Diego, for example, a
> number of people want to craft surf boards.  Numerous times it was
> mentioned their goal is to have a broad range of machines and tools that
> most individuals would need to work on most types of projects.  They're
> trying not to focus on any one particular type of thing.
>
> Questions about scheduling and reserving of time on machines.  While
> they have a sign up process, it turns out in Menlo Park there is only
> one machine that's in more demand than the available time, which is the
> laser cutter.  They are working on acquiring a second one.  A few times
> it was mentioned they have Bridgeport 4 milling machines (2 are actually
> Bridgeport-like copies), so there's pretty much always a machine
> available.  For the high-demand laser cutter, sign-up times are
> currently 3 days to 2 weeks, which stuck with me as a data point of wait
> times we could expect.
>
> Numerous machines were mentioned.  There is a "3D printer", which uses
> strong ABS plastic, not the brittle resin normally used in stereo
> lithography.  Lathes, milling machines, sheet metal fabrication, the
> laser cutter, industrial sewing machines, lots of other stuff.  There is
> a lot of info on the website, so I'm not going to cover this.
>
> Breakage and wear-and-tear were asked about pretty much as the 2nd line
> of questions after the location.  Tools wear out and people break stuff
> sometimes, and they are building that into the costs they pay for.  Jim
> did mention that it's perfectly fine, for example, to bring you own end
> mill bit in if you're working on a project and need a really sharp,
> perfect condition cutter.  Jim told a story about a woman who mistook
> micrometers for C-clamps.  They will try to replace stuff as it wears,
> but can't have everything in perfect shape.
>
> They offer classes in 2 forms.  Well, it sounds like right now they've
> only just started the "advanced" classes, and have mostly done "basic
> checkout" classes.  Both types are extra cost, not included in the
> membership fee.  Jim mentioned about half their revenue comes from the
> classes, and they've had a lot more demand for them than they'd
> originally expected.  $30 and 1 hour were mentioned for the basic
> checkout, and that was on a per-machine basis (or perhaps per area, it
> wasn't perfectly clear to me).  He mentioned $50 for other classes, but
> I was left with the impression that was still new and in development and
> not firm pricing.
>
> There was a guy (who name I don't recall) videotaping the presentation,
> and he spoke briefly about video-based instruction.  Apparently there is
> some internal debate on whether video is part of their education program
> (and thus paid for with class fees), or should be freely available and
> more of a promotion and public service.  The video guy was clearly
> wanting to publish free videos, but I was left with a strong impression
> someone else (probably not Jim) saw the video as a profit center and way
> to expand the education program.  Jim mentioned that video will never be
> a substitute for actual hands-on instruction.  I was left with the
> impression that the "classes" consisted of a good portion of time you
> actually operating the machine while the instructor watches over.
>
> Jim also expressed some desire, though no actual plans and perhaps
> liability obstacles to reaching out to high schools.  He definitely
> feels it's a shame all shop programs have vanished from education, and
> he seemed to care deeply about the long-term prospects of enabling
> future generations to develop the interest and skills to make stuff.
> Liability was mentioned.  A current policy of not allowing anyone under
> 18 inside was also mentioned.
>
> There were several questions about how they handle liability.  Most of
> this was near the beginning, so I'm not covering this in chronological
> order....  In a nutshell, they have insurance (some specific details
> were referred to as "the secret sause" or confidential business info),
> they require everyone to sign a waiver, they require you to take a basic
> operation and safety class before using a particular type of machine,
> and they try to foster a community mindful safety.
>
> Quite a lot of talk was about community building.  There is a central
> meeting room in Menlo Park with coffee, popcorn machine, tables, chairs,
> etc, which serves as a place to hang out and talk about projects.  Jim
> mentioned how interesting it is the just be there and talk with people,
> most of whom don't really spend a lot of time around anyone else who can
> understand what we're building (friends, family, etc).  I got the sense
> he really valued a central meeting/social space and intended to have all
> new Techshops with a layout designed this way.
>
> Jim told a story about a disagreement with his former partner (who he
> bought out and is no longer involved in Techshop).  This guy wanted to
> hire a guy for the tool crib.  Jim felt that really defeats the
> community aspect of the place and wants everyone to be responsible for
> the tools.  He also mentioned that 3 months of that salary would pay for
> the tools to be replaced anyway.  Jim feels pretty strongly about
> trusting people who are members to take care of the shop and act
> responsibly.  So far in Menlo Park it's worked out very well.
>
> The other community aspect he mentioned was that the funding for each
> location is coming from the community, in those $25k loans from
> members.  I had expected they'd taken in some huge venture capital to do
> all this expansion.  It wasn't really asked or mentioned if they had
> taken outside investment, but what they did say is it's pretty much
> loans from the community getting this thing started in each location and
> ultimately those membership fees are going to keep it going.
>
> Aside from the membership fees and class fees, 2 other sources of
> revenue were mentioned.  A retail store was mentioned, where they will
> sell raw materials.  He said the prices will be normal retail.  The main
> idea is you can get a block of metal or piece of pipe without having to
> leave the site, and late at night after other places have closed.
>
> They will also have some space to rent.  There will be storage areas for
> projects, ranging from small enough for a small collection of personal
> tools to storing a Burning Man art car (yes, he did mention someone
> storing their Burning Man project).  In Menlo Park, they had one extra
> small room, which they rented for $1000/month.  Since then, they've had
> a couple dozen requests for such rooms to be rented as a private work
> area.  They're planning to build several in all new locations.
>
> The other detail of Menlo Park was an anecdote about how they've
> "trashed" the building in some ways, their lease specifically says they
> can because the building is going to be demolished after they are done
> (I think I heard in 2 years, but not sure).  Jim mentioned someone who
> know who as a M1 tank they might roll though the building when after
> they're out of it....
>
>
> There were a LOT of questions and details.  I'm sure I've missed some
> stuff.
>
> Overall, I was pretty impressed.  In particular, I'd expected a more
> corporate style organization, but while they most definitely are a
> private, for-profit company, I got a very strong sense Jim and Denney
> really do have their hearts in this and aren't just in it to make a buck.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
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