[dorkbotpdx-blabber] Techshop impressions

[Greg Borenstein]

Thanks, for this terrific summary, Paul. I'd intended to go the  
meeting and then was unable due to personal obligations. This got me  
super excited about the arrival of Techshop.

Was there any sense as to whether or not membership would be necessary  
for access to the tools or classes? What does that $50/month get you  
and what can you do on an a la carte basis?

Thanks,

Greg


On Feb 13, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Paul Stoffregen wrote:

> I was pretty impressed with the Techshop presentation last night,  
> after making the long trek out to Hillsboro.  For the benefit of  
> everyone who couldn't make it, here's what I remember.
>
> As Thomas mentioned (during the meeting), the location will be in  
> the NW industrial area, not way out in Hillsboro (and certainly not  
> at the McMenamin's they used to host the meeting).  It was said to  
> be close to a brewery.  The one mentioned (Pyramid) is actually in  
> Seattle.  It could perhaps be the Portland Brewing Company, at 2730  
> NW 31st?  The specific address wasn't given and I didn't take notes  
> on the other references that placed it within several blocks.  But  
> it's definitely going to be in NW and not far outside of Portland  
> proper.
>
> They mentioned creating a "heat map" of all the zip codes people  
> entered when joined their announcement list.  Apparently a large  
> portion were clustered in the North Portland area, and also some in  
> the Beaverton & Hillsboro tech area.  31 locations were considered,  
> and the distribution of zip codes weighed heavily on their decision  
> for the NW location.
>
> July 4 was mentioned as their goal to open.
>
> They have definitely selected the building.  Specific details  
> mentioned were 15000 square feet (which is double the space at Menlo  
> Park) and 22 foot high ceiling.
>
> Hours of operation aren't known yet.  The original (and only  
> currently open one) in Menlo Park (SF bay area) is open 9am to  
> midnight.  Their ultimate goal is to be open 24 hours a day, 7 days  
> a week.  However, it costs money to stay open longer.  They require  
> at least one paid staff person to be present at all times.  So  
> longer hours require more paid members.
>
> The Menlo Park location currently has 350 members.  They have a cap  
> at 500 members per location.  It sounded like they would definitely  
> go to longer hours if they had all 500 memberships sold.
>
> Membership is $100 per month, or $1100 per year.  They also give  
> lifetime membership as a perk to people who lend them money to use  
> as the capital to open a new location.  That's $25k, repaid at 10%  
> APR over 10 years.
>
> While 9 locations are opening this year, their goal is to eventually  
> open hundreds of them worldwide.  Jim briefly made mention of input  
> (perhaps a deeper relationship?) with the founder or someone from  
> Kinkos.
>
> Each location is forming as its own LLC.  The exact business  
> relationship wasn't clear to me, but the stated purpose was to make  
> each one fairly independent financially.
>
> I had gone there expecting to feel like a customer hearing a pitch  
> from a for-profit company.  They definitely are for-profit, and that  
> was mentioned.  But Jim seemed very genuinely interested in  
> community building.  That came through in many little mentions.   
> More on community building later.
>
> Jim (the founder and CEO) and Denney (who's opening the Portland  
> location), and pretty much all of them are makers/builders.  They  
> both were involved in the robot battle scene (Jim's "2nd car" was a  
> battle bot that cost more than his car and could tow a truck), Jim  
> worked for the Myth Busters show (which I've never seen... no TV),  
> and lots of other projects no sane person would ever devote so much  
> time to if not for the sheer love of building crazy stuff.
>
> There was talk about the machines.  The main point is they are  
> "standardizing" on all brand new "core machines" for all Techshop  
> locations.  When he started at Menlo Park less than 2 years ago,  
> they got all used stuff as cheap as they could.  But as they intend  
> to have lots of locations, they are aiming to have the "core" stuff  
> be the same at all locations.  Brief mention of negotiating bulk  
> purchasing of the machines was made.  Each location is probably  
> going to add some other stuff that is in demand in that region.  In  
> San Diego, for example, a number of people want to craft surf  
> boards.  Numerous times it was mentioned their goal is to have a  
> broad range of machines and tools that most individuals would need  
> to work on most types of projects.  They're trying not to focus on  
> any one particular type of thing.
>
> Questions about scheduling and reserving of time on machines.  While  
> they have a sign up process, it turns out in Menlo Park there is  
> only one machine that's in more demand than the available time,  
> which is the laser cutter.  They are working on acquiring a second  
> one.  A few times it was mentioned they have Bridgeport 4 milling  
> machines (2 are actually Bridgeport-like copies), so there's pretty  
> much always a machine available.  For the high-demand laser cutter,  
> sign-up times are currently 3 days to 2 weeks, which stuck with me  
> as a data point of wait times we could expect.
>
> Numerous machines were mentioned.  There is a "3D printer", which  
> uses strong ABS plastic, not the brittle resin normally used in  
> stereo lithography.  Lathes, milling machines, sheet metal  
> fabrication, the laser cutter, industrial sewing machines, lots of  
> other stuff.  There is a lot of info on the website, so I'm not  
> going to cover this.
>
> Breakage and wear-and-tear were asked about pretty much as the 2nd  
> line of questions after the location.  Tools wear out and people  
> break stuff sometimes, and they are building that into the costs  
> they pay for.  Jim did mention that it's perfectly fine, for  
> example, to bring you own end mill bit in if you're working on a  
> project and need a really sharp, perfect condition cutter.  Jim told  
> a story about a woman who mistook micrometers for C-clamps.  They  
> will try to replace stuff as it wears, but can't have everything in  
> perfect shape.
>
> They offer classes in 2 forms.  Well, it sounds like right now  
> they've only just started the "advanced" classes, and have mostly  
> done "basic checkout" classes.  Both types are extra cost, not  
> included in the membership fee.  Jim mentioned about half their  
> revenue comes from the classes, and they've had a lot more demand  
> for them than they'd originally expected.  $30 and 1 hour were  
> mentioned for the basic checkout, and that was on a per-machine  
> basis (or perhaps per area, it wasn't perfectly clear to me).  He  
> mentioned $50 for other classes, but I was left with the impression  
> that was still new and in development and not firm pricing.
>
> There was a guy (who name I don't recall) videotaping the  
> presentation, and he spoke briefly about video-based instruction.   
> Apparently there is some internal debate on whether video is part of  
> their education program (and thus paid for with class fees), or  
> should be freely available and more of a promotion and public  
> service.  The video guy was clearly wanting to publish free videos,  
> but I was left with a strong impression someone else (probably not  
> Jim) saw the video as a profit center and way to expand the  
> education program.  Jim mentioned that video will never be a  
> substitute for actual hands-on instruction.  I was left with the  
> impression that the "classes" consisted of a good portion of time  
> you actually operating the machine while the instructor watches over.
>
> Jim also expressed some desire, though no actual plans and perhaps  
> liability obstacles to reaching out to high schools.  He definitely  
> feels it's a shame all shop programs have vanished from education,  
> and he seemed to care deeply about the long-term prospects of  
> enabling future generations to develop the interest and skills to  
> make stuff.  Liability was mentioned.  A current policy of not  
> allowing anyone under 18 inside was also mentioned.
>
> There were several questions about how they handle liability.  Most  
> of this was near the beginning, so I'm not covering this in  
> chronological order....  In a nutshell, they have insurance (some  
> specific details were referred to as "the secret sause" or  
> confidential business info), they require everyone to sign a waiver,  
> they require you to take a basic operation and safety class before  
> using a particular type of machine, and they try to foster a  
> community mindful safety.
>
> Quite a lot of talk was about community building.  There is a  
> central meeting room in Menlo Park with coffee, popcorn machine,  
> tables, chairs, etc, which serves as a place to hang out and talk  
> about projects.  Jim mentioned how interesting it is the just be  
> there and talk with people, most of whom don't really spend a lot of  
> time around anyone else who can understand what we're building  
> (friends, family, etc).  I got the sense he really valued a central  
> meeting/social space and intended to have all new Techshops with a  
> layout designed this way.
>
> Jim told a story about a disagreement with his former partner (who  
> he bought out and is no longer involved in Techshop).  This guy  
> wanted to hire a guy for the tool crib.  Jim felt that really  
> defeats the community aspect of the place and wants everyone to be  
> responsible for the tools.  He also mentioned that 3 months of that  
> salary would pay for the tools to be replaced anyway.  Jim feels  
> pretty strongly about trusting people who are members to take care  
> of the shop and act responsibly.  So far in Menlo Park it's worked  
> out very well.
>
> The other community aspect he mentioned was that the funding for  
> each location is coming from the community, in those $25k loans from  
> members.  I had expected they'd taken in some huge venture capital  
> to do all this expansion.  It wasn't really asked or mentioned if  
> they had taken outside investment, but what they did say is it's  
> pretty much loans from the community getting this thing started in  
> each location and ultimately those membership fees are going to keep  
> it going.
>
> Aside from the membership fees and class fees, 2 other sources of  
> revenue were mentioned.  A retail store was mentioned, where they  
> will sell raw materials.  He said the prices will be normal retail.   
> The main idea is you can get a block of metal or piece of pipe  
> without having to leave the site, and late at night after other  
> places have closed.
>
> They will also have some space to rent.  There will be storage areas  
> for projects, ranging from small enough for a small collection of  
> personal tools to storing a Burning Man art car (yes, he did mention  
> someone storing their Burning Man project).  In Menlo Park, they had  
> one extra small room, which they rented for $1000/month.  Since  
> then, they've had a couple dozen requests for such rooms to be  
> rented as a private work area.  They're planning to build several in  
> all new locations.
>
> The other detail of Menlo Park was an anecdote about how they've  
> "trashed" the building in some ways, their lease specifically says  
> they can because the building is going to be demolished after they  
> are done (I think I heard in 2 years, but not sure).  Jim mentioned  
> someone who know who as a M1 tank they might roll though the  
> building when after they're out of it....
>
>
> There were a LOT of questions and details.  I'm sure I've missed  
> some stuff.
>
> Overall, I was pretty impressed.  In particular, I'd expected a more  
> corporate style organization, but while they most definitely are a  
> private, for-profit company, I got a very strong sense Jim and  
> Denney really do have their hearts in this and aren't just in it to  
> make a buck.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
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