[dorkbotpdx-blabber] OpenTechSpace list

[Greg Grunest]

Hey Paul,
The reason I like the universal programmers is because it solves a lot of
problems for a LOT of devices.

The Arduino world is a bit spoiled, but even if you want to load a new AVR
bootloader for your new '328 or program an ATTiny, you end up building or
buying something.  Sure, you can use the jtag interface, then go buy the
right usb -> ??whatever??? converter, (an stk500 in the case of AVRs), build
your own bitbanger programmer, or wire it up on a breadboard, etc...  But
all those things require that you build or buy something.  And, in many
cases it's a different "something" for each device you want to program.

That doesn't even touch the world of CPLDs, GALs, flash proms or serial
proms that *CAN'T* be programmed with standard voltages or via a jtag
interface. 

The other option, of course, is to drop the chip into a universal programmer
and just go.  No building anything, double checking that you have the right
pinout, or any number of other setbacks that you can encounter trying to
build or deal with your own programming interface.  It seems to me that it
should be just that easy.

I look around my shop, and I have a dozen cables, two parallel port
programmers that I built, an USBTinyISP, an STK500 and a quantity of other
paraphernalia just to program the small number of chips that I deal with.
UGH!

Also, I too looked for Needhams a while ago when I was asking you about the
Xilinx chips and looking for a 22v10 / CPLD programmer.  Their site was down
then too.  I pulled out my old 8051 programmer hoping that it might program
22v10's (I think it did but that was a long time ago) and the software I
have for it is on 5" floppy disc. I figured I could download the new
software from their site but they must have gone out of business.  

I found on tequipment.net they have a couple of Needhams items listed but
you can't buy them, they are marked as discontinued and suggest the ChipMax2
by eetools. (which is how I found it in the first place)

Just my 2 cents.




-----Original Message-----
From: dorkbotpdx-blabber-bounces at dorkbot.org
[mailto:dorkbotpdx-blabber-bounces at dorkbot.org] On Behalf Of Paul Stoffregen
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:09 PM
To: A discussion list for dorkbot-pdx (portland, or)
Subject: Re: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] OpenTechSpace list

That certainly looks like a nice eprom programmer, probably nicer than 
the Needhams one I have... and Needhams' website is down, which makes me 
wonder if they're is still in business (and if I have a copy of their 
windows-only software archived somewhere?!)

But really, I'm wondering if anyone really uses eprom programmers 
anymore?  Mine's been collecting dust for years.  Certainly a lot of 
older chips like the original PIC, 8051, HC11, low density PLDs, 
parallel eproms and flash need to be programed on an eprom programmer.  
But those are all pretty old parts and even now the newer versions in 
common use usually have JTAG or proprietary in-circuit programming 
interfaces.  Virtually all programmable chips made nowadays (and for the 
last several years), especially microcontrollers and programmable logic, 
all have ISP.  If fact, many of them support 2 or 3 different ISP 
formats (the AVR, for example, has SPI-based ISP and also debug-wire and 
larger chips have JTAG too).

Maybe there are still modern chips that need such a programmer, but I'm 
just not familiar with them?  The only chips that come to mind are 
parallel flash, but even those nowadays are usually programmed 
in-curcuit via JTAG boundary scan access to the processor or FPGA or 
whatever other chip they're connected to on the board.

So I'd advise carefully considering the budget for an eprom programmer.  
If one is purchased, do be sure to get a reasonable collection of the 
many SMT-to-DIP adaptors.  I have a small collection (also collecting 
dust), some home-made, others purchased.  They quickly add up to as much 
or more than the programmer itself.


-Paul


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