[dorkbotpdx-blabber] OpenTechSpace list

Mon Jan 12 22:46:11 EST 2009

Yes, that's a pretty compelling reason to buy a universal eprom programmer.

I too have a VERY large collection of device-specific cables and 
programmers, most of them home-built.  I can almost always make my own 
faster than UPS can deliver one.  I personally don't think much of 
building one, but I can see how it's a pain for most people.

I did a little searching and it appears Needhams went out of business 
and their website has been offline since the summer.  I also found that 
I did save a copy of their software, which I downloaded in March 2007.  
It is version 1.7, which appears to be the last version they ever made.  
Here's an archive.org copy of Needhams website. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080126100458/http://www.needhams.com/

If you can't get 1.7 from there, I'll be happy to email it to you.  The 
file is 31 megs.

Really, I'm not surprised they went out of business.  Even 6 years ago 
when a project I was involved with needed an eprom programmer, several 
of them were discontinued or end-of-life products.  Still, I figured 
Needhams would last, since they had some of the most competitive 
programmers!

Regarding logic chips that can't be programmed by JTAG or some other 
ISP, those truly are "legacy" parts.  With Xilinx and other making much 
more capable JTAG-based CPLDs that cost much less (and consume a lot 
less power), those ancient 22V10 and other PLDs really are dinosaurs.  
Of course, all the new parts are SMT and low voltage, so maybe you do 
need that programmer for some things.

-Paul

Greg Grunest wrote:
> Hey Paul,
> The reason I like the universal programmers is because it solves a lot of
> problems for a LOT of devices.
>
> The Arduino world is a bit spoiled, but even if you want to load a new AVR
> bootloader for your new '328 or program an ATTiny, you end up building or
> buying something.  Sure, you can use the jtag interface, then go buy the
> right usb -> ??whatever??? converter, (an stk500 in the case of AVRs), build
> your own bitbanger programmer, or wire it up on a breadboard, etc...  But
> all those things require that you build or buy something.  And, in many
> cases it's a different "something" for each device you want to program.
>
> That doesn't even touch the world of CPLDs, GALs, flash proms or serial
> proms that *CAN'T* be programmed with standard voltages or via a jtag
> interface. 
>
> The other option, of course, is to drop the chip into a universal programmer
> and just go.  No building anything, double checking that you have the right
> pinout, or any number of other setbacks that you can encounter trying to
> build or deal with your own programming interface.  It seems to me that it
> should be just that easy.
>
> I look around my shop, and I have a dozen cables, two parallel port
> programmers that I built, an USBTinyISP, an STK500 and a quantity of other
> paraphernalia just to program the small number of chips that I deal with.
> UGH!
>
> Also, I too looked for Needhams a while ago when I was asking you about the
> Xilinx chips and looking for a 22v10 / CPLD programmer.  Their site was down
> then too.  I pulled out my old 8051 programmer hoping that it might program
> 22v10's (I think it did but that was a long time ago) and the software I
> have for it is on 5" floppy disc. I figured I could download the new
> software from their site but they must have gone out of business.  
>
> I found on tequipment.net they have a couple of Needhams items listed but
> you can't buy them, they are marked as discontinued and suggest the ChipMax2
> by eetools. (which is how I found it in the first place)
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dorkbotpdx-blabber-bounces at dorkbot.org
> [mailto:dorkbotpdx-blabber-bounces at dorkbot.org] On Behalf Of Paul Stoffregen
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:09 PM
> To: A discussion list for dorkbot-pdx (portland, or)
> Subject: Re: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] OpenTechSpace list
>
> That certainly looks like a nice eprom programmer, probably nicer than 
> the Needhams one I have... and Needhams' website is down, which makes me 
> wonder if they're is still in business (and if I have a copy of their 
> windows-only software archived somewhere?!)
>
> But really, I'm wondering if anyone really uses eprom programmers 
> anymore?  Mine's been collecting dust for years.  Certainly a lot of 
> older chips like the original PIC, 8051, HC11, low density PLDs, 
> parallel eproms and flash need to be programed on an eprom programmer.  
> But those are all pretty old parts and even now the newer versions in 
> common use usually have JTAG or proprietary in-circuit programming 
> interfaces.  Virtually all programmable chips made nowadays (and for the 
> last several years), especially microcontrollers and programmable logic, 
> all have ISP.  If fact, many of them support 2 or 3 different ISP 
> formats (the AVR, for example, has SPI-based ISP and also debug-wire and 
> larger chips have JTAG too).
>
> Maybe there are still modern chips that need such a programmer, but I'm 
> just not familiar with them?  The only chips that come to mind are 
> parallel flash, but even those nowadays are usually programmed 
> in-curcuit via JTAG boundary scan access to the processor or FPGA or 
> whatever other chip they're connected to on the board.
>
> So I'd advise carefully considering the budget for an eprom programmer.  
> If one is purchased, do be sure to get a reasonable collection of the 
> many SMT-to-DIP adaptors.  I have a small collection (also collecting 
> dust), some home-made, others purchased.  They quickly add up to as much 
> or more than the programmer itself.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
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