From dan_gilsdorf at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  1 01:56:23 2009
From: dan_gilsdorf at hotmail.com (Dan Gilsdorf)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:56:23 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] dorkbotpdx-blabber Digest, Vol 40, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.315.1257011956.148.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
References: <mailman.315.1257011956.148.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
Message-ID: <COL116-W30F9380AE7D51F5C12CDC0F5B40@phx.gbl>


It is SUPER intimidating.  The application is really complicated,
the guidelines are vague, and the deadlines are strict.  On the other hand, 
if you can make the case that your project is going to be good for you, 
valuable for the community, and that you can pull it off, the RACC wants nothing 
more than to cut you a big check so you can make your work.  Pretty sweet.  
Even when I've gotten rejected just writing the grant has been really valuable 
and has helped refine my ideas and organize a strategy to get the project done.  
It's more than worthwhile.

Dan


Dan,
 
This is a great offer.
Getting the proposals out and right is probably the most intimidating  
part of these resources.
 
Don.
 
 
On Oct 29, 2009, at 2:02 AM, Dan Gilsdorf wrote:
 
> I have gotten a couple of RACC grants and would be happy to read over
> any proposals that any dorkbotters have and give some feedback.  I  
> have also
> sat on the panel that reviews these proposals so have some good  
> insights
> into the workings of the process.  Feel free to contact me on the  
> matter and I'll
> help out however I can.
>
> Dan Gilsdorf
> dang at postalmodern.com
> www.dangilsdorf.com
>
>
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:13:00 -0700
> > From: "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" <zznmeb at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] RACC Installation Proposals?
> > To: "A discussion list for dorkbot-pdx (portland,	or)"
> > <dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <af0420cd0910271613s53ff2137n80f985d23c2008f3 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Is anyone here interested in these, either as a direct submitter or
> > mentoring a student submission?
> >
> > http://www.racc.org/public-art/request-proposals-installation-space
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
> > http://borasky-research.net
> >
> > "I've always regarded nature as the clothing of God." ~Alan  
> Hovhaness
>
>
> Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7.  
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009
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From markgross at thegnar.org  Sun Nov  1 13:17:32 2009
From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:17:32 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] DBPCB Fabrication Trial Run
In-Reply-To: <6b1e38ba-4cc5-4319-9b1b-09cbb73ec85d@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <6b1e38ba-4cc5-4319-9b1b-09cbb73ec85d@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20091101181732.GC24721@thegnar.org>

Will you be trying this again sometime?

I'm thinking of doing some test boards for my teensy++ and (yet to be
created teensy2) eagle libraries.

Anyone have some motor driver or applications I could use to test out
the lib's?

--mgross


On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 01:58:26PM -0700, Laen wrote:
> As some of you know, we've been working on setting up a prototype PCB
> fabrication service for Portland's electronics artists, builders, and
> makers of things.  This should be much like Sparkfun's BatchPCB
> service, except cheaper, and produced domestically.
> 
> Well, good news, everyone! We're ready to do a trial run!
> 
> To participate, just email me an Eagle .brd and tell me how many of
> copies you'd want if you had to pay $2.50 per square inch.  (When this
> goes live, our actual pricing may be different, but for now pretend
> it's $2.50).
> 
> Because we've never done this before and have no idea how it's going
> to turn out, this order will be free of charge, so PLEASE submit a
> board if you have something you want fabbed.  I want to get a sense
> for the sizes of the boards, how efficiently we'll be able to
> panelize, and how popular the service is likely to be.
> 
> You have until October 1st to place your order, and they'll be ready
> for pickup at the October 12th Dorkbot general meeting.  If you won't
> be there, we can arrange for postal mail delivery.
> 
> If you're using eagle, please use this DRU file (and email me or the
> dorkbotpdx-blabber list if you don't know what that means and want
> help setting it up):
> 
>   http://content.laen.org/dbpcb/DBPCB.dru
> 
> Capabilities:
>   8 mil minimum traces.
>   8 mil minimum clearances.
>   20 mil minimum drill size
> 
> -Laen
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

From jlarson at pacifier.com  Mon Nov  2 17:21:34 2009
From: jlarson at pacifier.com (Jim Larson)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:21:34 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Cheap source for wire?
Message-ID: <4AEF5B6E.8080505@pacifier.com>

Anyone have a good line on wire? I need 28 or 30 gauge, and also some 18 
gauge. 100' rolls are fine, but I'd like it cheap. Radio shack and 
Digikey want 12cents per foot or so.

Thanks.
                          -jim

From james.neal at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 18:48:20 2009
From: james.neal at gmail.com (Laen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:48:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] DBPCB Fabrication Trial Run
In-Reply-To: <20091101181732.GC24721@thegnar.org>
References: <6b1e38ba-4cc5-4319-9b1b-09cbb73ec85d@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<20091101181732.GC24721@thegnar.org>
Message-ID: <16d1f8a5-373d-4373-9adf-d8bcece44273@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Yeah!  By spring I expect this'll be a monthly thing.

The next one will be end of November, coinciding with the Eagle
Workshop on November 29th.  Probably going out on November 30th.   The
actual date should crystallize later this week.

-Laen

On Nov 1, 10:17?am, mgross <markgr... at thegnar.org> wrote:
> Will you be trying this again sometime?
>
> I'm thinking of doing some test boards for my teensy++ and (yet to be
> created teensy2) eagle libraries.
>
> Anyone have some motor driver or applications I could use to test out
> the lib's?
>
> --mgross
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 01:58:26PM -0700, Laen wrote:
> > As some of you know, we've been working on setting up a prototype PCB
> > fabrication service for Portland's electronics artists, builders, and
> > makers of things. ?This should be much like Sparkfun's BatchPCB
> > service, except cheaper, and produced domestically.
>
> > Well, good news, everyone! We're ready to do a trial run!
>
> > To participate, just email me an Eagle .brd and tell me how many of
> > copies you'd want if you had to pay $2.50 per square inch. ?(When this
> > goes live, our actual pricing may be different, but for now pretend
> > it's $2.50).
>
> > Because we've never done this before and have no idea how it's going
> > to turn out, this order will be free of charge, so PLEASE submit a
> > board if you have something you want fabbed. ?I want to get a sense
> > for the sizes of the boards, how efficiently we'll be able to
> > panelize, and how popular the service is likely to be.
>
> > You have until October 1st to place your order, and they'll be ready
> > for pickup at the October 12th Dorkbot general meeting. ?If you won't
> > be there, we can arrange for postal mail delivery.
>
> > If you're using eagle, please use this DRU file (and email me or the
> > dorkbotpdx-blabber list if you don't know what that means and want
> > help setting it up):
>
> > ?http://content.laen.org/dbpcb/DBPCB.dru
>
> > Capabilities:
> > ? 8 mil minimum traces.
> > ? 8 mil minimum clearances.
> > ? 20 mil minimum drill size
>
> > -Laen
> > _______________________________________________
> > dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> > dorkbotpdx-blab... at dorkbot.org
> >http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blab... at dorkbot.orghttp://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

From coldham2 at mac.com  Tue Nov  3 00:57:49 2009
From: coldham2 at mac.com (coldham2 at mac.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:57:49 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] November 2nd is our next
	group	order
In-Reply-To: <322d28fd-9eb5-43eb-be5b-0c0a43a9c98c@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <322d28fd-9eb5-43eb-be5b-0c0a43a9c98c@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <801A240A-09A6-41D2-942C-05C97DDD98A2@mac.com>

One lowly part! If this is the only thing in the "group order," then  
it can certainly wait til next time!


from digikey,

Qty. 1   part no. 296-4531-5-ND ,  IC BUS BUFFER TRI-ST QD 14DIP  
$0.50, $0.50



74AHC125

Collin




On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Laen wrote:

> In this order: Digikey and Mouser.  At least I can trust their
> shipping times. :)
>
> -Laen
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From curator at ongallery.org  Wed Nov  4 23:30:53 2009
From: curator at ongallery.org (Benjamin Foote)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:30:53 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] First Thursday Dorkbot @ON Gallery
Message-ID: <10e900420911042030u1c72bbdboeaa959689e8a0852@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I wanted to remind folks of First Thursday at ON Gallery.

If you haven't had an opportunity to see the show, or to bring anyone
by then this will be a fine opportunity, and it will be your last.

Thanks to Andrew and Mark for covering the gallery while I'm at my
class for a portion of the evening.

And thank you to the artists for your participation in the show.  As
some of you know this is likely to be the last First Thursday for ON
Gallery.  I can't think of a more fitting last show.

FYI - I wanted to let you know that there will be no alcohol provided
tomorrow but that you are welcome to bring whatever you like and to
use the fridge.  I do please ask that if you care to have a beverage
that you enjoy it in the gallery and not on the sidewalk out front.
The last few months the OLCC and a police officer that works with them
have concerned themselves with Everett Station on First Thursday and
have on both occasions talked to me personally.  Nothing too alarming
at this point but worth a little eternal vigilance.

Cheers,

ben

Benjamin Foote
http://pdxstump.com - a search engine and news aggregator for Portland
http://ONgallery.org - an art gallery for interactive media, First
Thursday openings
http://bnf.net - Linux and Java Consulting
ben at bnf.net
503-313-5379
@pdxstump on twitter

From markgross at thegnar.org  Thu Nov  5 08:34:47 2009
From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 05:34:47 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] eagle lable and signal names for custom libs
Message-ID: <20091105133447.GA703@thegnar.org>

I'm trying to create a teensy2 (and update my teensy++) eagal libraries
to have more useful signal names for the different types of users.

If your's an arduio coder then you may be more at home with the arduino
logical pin names, if you are a C coder then perhaps you'll be happier
with the physical pin names in the symbols.

Some may like to see all the alternative functions for each pin in the
signal naming...

My first attempt at making the lib more useful has been to comma
separate the pin names and the alt functions for each pin.  However;
when I do that the schematic is unreadable because of the placements of
the labels.

So is there a way to set up signal aliases that work as labels? 
Should I create multiple versions of the libraries for Arduino and C
programmers?

Advice welcome.

BTW I'm now using bitbucket to hold this work as I've gotten some
complaints from windows users about github making it hard for them to
get the libs.

http://bitbucket.org/markgross/teensy-things/

thanks!

--mgross


From jlarson at pacifier.com  Sat Nov  7 14:14:48 2009
From: jlarson at pacifier.com (Jim Larson)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:14:48 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone dealt with NKCelectonics?
Message-ID: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>

I ran across these folks today and wondered if anyone has dealt with them.
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/index.html

They seem to have some pretty interesting stuff and their prices seemed 
(at a quick glance) to be very competitive. Here's some items that 
caught my eye:
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/pocket-avr-programmer.html
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/digital-storage-oscilloscope-diy-kit.html
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/bluetooth-module-serial-port.html

Experiences or thoughts?

                                     -jim

From james.neal at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 15:11:43 2009
From: james.neal at gmail.com (Laen)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 12:11:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone dealt with NKCelectonics?
In-Reply-To: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>
References: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <142b4b35-bc16-4edb-884d-1dca9b7ee2c8@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I haven't, but I'm familiar with some of the items you pasted..

The first seems to be the same schematic as Ladyada's usbtinyisp,
which is a fine little ISP based on the 2313.  I have some USBTinyISP
boards if you want one..

That's the same Jyetech DSO that seeedstudio sells, which is pretty
much _just_ good enough to show you that you have a signal going
through a wire, but not good enough to figure out what the signal is.
I think the interface is really confusing, though.

I have high hopes for their  "DSO Nano".
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/beta-testmicro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html

-Laen

On Nov 7, 12:14?pm, Jim Larson <jlar... at pacifier.com> wrote:
> I ran across these folks today and wondered if anyone has dealt with them.http://www.nkcelectronics.com/index.html
>
> They seem to have some pretty interesting stuff and their prices seemed
> (at a quick glance) to be very competitive. Here's some items that
> caught my eye:http://www.nkcelectronics.com/pocket-avr-programmer.htmlhttp://www.nkcelectronics.com/digital-storage-oscilloscope-diy-kit.htmlhttp://www.nkcelectronics.com/bluetooth-module-serial-port.html
>
> Experiences or thoughts?
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-jim
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blab... at dorkbot.orghttp://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

From scott at dixons.mailworks.org  Sat Nov  7 16:24:17 2009
From: scott at dixons.mailworks.org (Scott Dixon)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:24:17 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone dealt with NKCelectonics?
In-Reply-To: <142b4b35-bc16-4edb-884d-1dca9b7ee2c8@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>
	<142b4b35-bc16-4edb-884d-1dca9b7ee2c8@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11AE1191-B63C-40E0-A7C8-A823DDF16906@dixons.mailworks.org>

I'm probably threadjacking here since I don't have any experience with  
nkcelectronics, but Laen and Jim's mention of inexpensive USB DSOs and  
Paul's recent interest in higher end DSOs prompts me to bring up an  
interesting possibility which falls between these extremes and might  
be of interest to others.
I'm no expert on DSO technology and in fact am not really in the  
market for one although it would be nice to have sometimes.  But, by  
chance, I've started to watch eevblog.com, which, if you haven't seen  
it, it a pretty amusing and interesting video blog by an Australian  
EE, David Jones.  It is a mix of rants on design and construction  
quality, equipment reviews and talks about a variety of electronics  
topics.
His equipment reviews are particularly interesting because, aside from  
evaluating the performance of something, he tends to grab a  
screwdriver and open it up to critique the component and build  
quality.   He seems quite keen on a Rigol DS 1052E, which is a 50Mhz  
dual channel color DSO with 1Ghz sample rate and 1 meg sample memory.   
According to Jones's tear down, the quality of the components, design  
and build seems astonishingly good for the price (currently less that  
$400 delivered on Ebay).  I don't know anything personally about Rigol  
although I understand that Agilent rebadges some Rigol scopes under  
the Agilent label so perhaps the build quality isn't so surprising.   
In any case,  if the DS 1052E really is that good, the price begins to  
put it into the range where the inexpensive USB virtual scopes don't  
look like such a good deal.
Here is the link to David Jones's teardown of the DS 1052E:  http://www.eevblog.com/2009/10/12/eevblog-37-rigol-ds1052e-oscilloscope-teardown
Even if you don't care about a DSO review, he is fun to watch.  Check  
out the blog where he blows up capacitors with a small amount of  
reverse voltage and records it with a high speed video camera.
Also, regarding the usbtiny ISP,  Sparkfun sells a version of that  
design for about $15 (fully assembled), which I bought and which works  
quite nicely with avrdude.
-scott
On Nov 7, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Laen wrote:

> I haven't, but I'm familiar with some of the items you pasted..
>
> The first seems to be the same schematic as Ladyada's usbtinyisp,
> which is a fine little ISP based on the 2313.  I have some USBTinyISP
> boards if you want one..
>
> That's the same Jyetech DSO that seeedstudio sells, which is pretty
> much _just_ good enough to show you that you have a signal going
> through a wire, but not good enough to figure out what the signal is.
> I think the interface is really confusing, though.
>
> I have high hopes for their  "DSO Nano".
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/beta-testmicro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
> -Laen
>
> On Nov 7, 12:14 pm, Jim Larson <jlar... at pacifier.com> wrote:
>> I ran across these folks today and wondered if anyone has dealt  
>> with them.http://www.nkcelectronics.com/index.html
>>
>> They seem to have some pretty interesting stuff and their prices  
>> seemed
>> (at a quick glance) to be very competitive. Here's some items that
>> caught my eye:http://www.nkcelectronics.com/pocket-avr- 
>> programmer.htmlhttp://www.nkcelectronics.com/digital-storage- 
>> oscilloscope-diy-kit.htmlhttp://www.nkcelectronics.com/bluetooth- 
>> module-serial-port.html
>>
>> Experiences or thoughts?
>>
>>                                      -jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blab... at dorkbot.orghttp://music.columbia.edu/mailman/ 
>> listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 21:25:29 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 18:25:29 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone dealt with NKCelectonics?
In-Reply-To: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>
References: <4AF5C728.5050803@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <A8546EBE-C2E6-4F64-921A-9535A7AF4E8D@gmail.com>

the engineer at NCK was one of the first people to actually build  
reasonable connections onto their arduino clones.

http://www.nkcelectronics.com/arduino-runtime-board-rev-b.html

Its a shame to see the market driving to all shield based designs but  
they seem like decent enough folk.


On Nov 7, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Jim Larson wrote:

> I ran across these folks today and wondered if anyone has dealt with  
> them.
> http://www.nkcelectronics.com/index.html
>
> They seem to have some pretty interesting stuff and their prices  
> seemed
> (at a quick glance) to be very competitive. Here's some items that
> caught my eye:
> http://www.nkcelectronics.com/pocket-avr-programmer.html
> http://www.nkcelectronics.com/digital-storage-oscilloscope-diy- 
> kit.html
> http://www.nkcelectronics.com/bluetooth-module-serial-port.html
>
> Experiences or thoughts?
>
>                                     -jim
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 00:14:18 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:14:18 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Fwd: Aures microtonal concert, 10/8/2009
References: <683818.58854.qm@web53711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <279D778B-8D3F-4023-835E-2365148FC767@gmail.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Tom Thorson <shattersignal at yahoo.com>
> Date: November 7, 2009 9:10:45 PM PST
> To: ddelmardavis at gmail.com
> Subject: Aures microtonal concert, 10/8/2009
>
> Yo!  sorry for the late email.  I got caught up in my auto insurance  
> claim just before i left for tour and I forgot to send you this email.
>
> Here's the scoop on the show:
>
> The venue is called The Wail
> (42nd and NE Sumner, just south of Killingsworth by about 3 blocks)
>
> The bill will include my group, Aures, touring artists Sun Circle,  
> and local artist White Rainbow.  All three groups utilize both  
> acoustic and electronic drones to create mesmerizing and psycho- 
> acoustic long-form compositions.
>
> The show begins at 8 pm as the venue needs to music to be done by 10  
> pm.  The cost will be low--a couple bucks probably to help with gas  
> money.  This will be a really top notch experimental music show.  I  
> hope to see you there!
>
> Thomas Thorson
>
>
>

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From dorkbot at mersenne.com  Tue Nov 10 23:43:25 2009
From: dorkbot at mersenne.com (dave madden)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:43:25 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Sheeva Plug Computer
Message-ID: <1257914605.5438.40.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>

Does anybody have a SheevaPlug computer?  What's it like?  I'm sick of
listening to the fans on my main machine, which is an aging powerhouse
that's mostly just doing fileserving these days.  What I wouldn't give
for something I can plug in in the closet, next to the WiFi router, with
a big USB disk and NFS.

Any idea what the power consumption on the Plug is?  I haven't been able
to find that spec on any of the Wikis.

d.


From russell at personaltelco.net  Tue Nov 10 23:56:33 2009
From: russell at personaltelco.net (Russell Senior)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:56:33 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Sheeva Plug Computer
In-Reply-To: <1257914605.5438.40.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com> (dave madden's
	message of "Tue\, 10 Nov 2009 20\:43\:25 -0800")
References: <1257914605.5438.40.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <86skcly7zy.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>

>>>>> "dave" == dave madden <dorkbot at mersenne.com> writes:

dave> Does anybody have a SheevaPlug computer?  What's it like?  I'm
dave> sick of listening to the fans on my main machine, which is an
dave> aging powerhouse that's mostly just doing fileserving these
dave> days.  What I wouldn't give for something I can plug in in the
dave> closet, next to the WiFi router, with a big USB disk and NFS.

dave> Any idea what the power consumption on the Plug is?  I haven't
dave> been able to find that spec on any of the Wikis.

I don't have a SheevaPlug, but I've used an Alix from PCEngines.ch.

http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm

They are a 500MHz x86 AMD Geode CPU with 256meg of RAM, a CF slot.
It draws between 3 and 6 Watts, you could add a wifi radio if you
wanted.  It even has a 44-pin IDE header if you wanted to add a laptop
HD.  Prices is in the $150-$175 range with power supply, case and CF
card.  No fan noise.

Prices direct from PC Engines (Zurich) are pretty good, though
shipping can be spendy and slow-ish compared to domestic.  My last
couple orders were in the week-to-ten-days range.  There are domestic
suppliers too.


-- 
Russell Senior, President
russell at personaltelco.net

From thomas at lockney.net  Wed Nov 11 01:22:03 2009
From: thomas at lockney.net (Thomas Lockney)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:22:03 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet (was Re: Sheeva Plug
	Computer)
Message-ID: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Russell Senior
<russell at personaltelco.net>wrote:

> I don't have a SheevaPlug, but I've used an Alix from PCEngines.ch.
>
> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm
>

I notice the Alix supports optional PoE which reminds me -- has anyone in
the group built their own device to inject PoE? I have a router that was
sent to me a while back which I'd like to get working, but it only works
with PoE. I've seen the guide at NYCwireless (
http://www.nycwireless.net/projects/poe-power-over-ethernet/) which is
simple enough, but I'm considering just wiring it up directly into a cable
to avoid having to put together the ethernet jacks myself. It helps that I
don't have to locate the router remotely.

~thomas
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From mykle at mykle.com  Wed Nov 11 01:53:38 2009
From: mykle at mykle.com (Mykle Hansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:53:38 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet (was Re: Sheeva Plug
	Computer)
In-Reply-To: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>

i've done it.  it's no harder than any other wiring.  the standard is
on-line somewhere, and you just run the correct DC voltage into
the unused wires on one end, and take it out on the other.

the thing to get right is to know the resistance of your
wire run -- it can be quite long, and is almost always thin --
and the power consumption of your device, so you can adjust
the input voltage appropriately.  again, there are calculators
for that online ... at least i think there must be 'cause i doubt i  
could
have figured it out on my own.

-m-

On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:22 PMTuesday, Thomas Lockney wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Russell Senior <russell at personaltelco.net 
> > wrote:
> I don't have a SheevaPlug, but I've used an Alix from PCEngines.ch.
>
> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm
>
> I notice the Alix supports optional PoE which reminds me -- has  
> anyone in the group built their own device to inject PoE? I have a  
> router that was sent to me a while back which I'd like to get  
> working, but it only works with PoE. I've seen the guide at  
> NYCwireless (http://www.nycwireless.net/projects/poe-power-over-ethernet/ 
> ) which is simple enough, but I'm considering just wiring it up  
> directly into a cable to avoid having to put together the ethernet  
> jacks myself. It helps that I don't have to locate the router  
> remotely.
>
> ~thomas
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

---
HELP!  A Bear is Eating Me!
http://helpabeariseatingme.com

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From dausmus at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 02:59:23 2009
From: dausmus at gmail.com (Doug Ausmus)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:59:23 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet (was Re: Sheeva Plug
	Computer)
In-Reply-To: <B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>
References: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>
Message-ID: <307640010911102359h1f72d5afk6aed68d50c1dfd35@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding PoE design:

Although much of the older equipment used spare lines for this and simply
takes power, the new PoE protocol has some handshaking on it if you want to
be completely compatible and protects some equipment that may not like power
on its lines accidentally plugging into a PoE port. Newer designs also move
the power to share the data lines to leave the spares free:

http://www.altair.org/labnotes_POE.html (see Table 1 for a comparison
chart!)

Here is an article on how to design a powered device:
http://www.poweroverethernet.com/articles.php?article_id=370

Here is a kit that uses the old-style injector design (I do not vouch for
this kit- just found it online and sharing the link, your mileage may vary):
http://www.eidusa.com/Electronics_Kits_PoE_injector.htm

Hope this is useful information!

Regards-
Doug

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Mykle Hansen <mykle at mykle.com> wrote:

> i've done it.  it's no harder than any other wiring.  the standard is
> on-line somewhere, and you just run the correct DC voltage into
> the unused wires on one end, and take it out on the other.
>
> the thing to get right is to know the resistance of your
> wire run -- it can be quite long, and is almost always thin --
> and the power consumption of your device, so you can adjust
> the input voltage appropriately.  again, there are calculators
> for that online ... at least i think there must be 'cause i doubt i could
> have figured it out on my own.
>
> -m-
>
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:22 PMTuesday, Thomas Lockney wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Russell Senior <russell at personaltelco.net
> > wrote:
>
>> I don't have a SheevaPlug, but I've used an Alix from PCEngines.ch.
>>
>> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm
>>
>
> I notice the Alix supports optional PoE which reminds me -- has anyone in
> the group built their own device to inject PoE? I have a router that was
> sent to me a while back which I'd like to get working, but it only works
> with PoE. I've seen the guide at NYCwireless (
> http://www.nycwireless.net/projects/poe-power-over-ethernet/) which is
> simple enough, but I'm considering just wiring it up directly into a cable
> to avoid having to put together the ethernet jacks myself. It helps that I
> don't have to locate the router remotely.
>
> ~thomas
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
> ---
> HELP!  A Bear is Eating Me!
> http://helpabeariseatingme.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
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From russell at personaltelco.net  Wed Nov 11 03:43:43 2009
From: russell at personaltelco.net (Russell Senior)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:43:43 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet
In-Reply-To: <307640010911102359h1f72d5afk6aed68d50c1dfd35@mail.gmail.com>
	(Doug Ausmus's message of "Tue\, 10 Nov 2009 23\:59\:23 -0800")
References: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>
	<307640010911102359h1f72d5afk6aed68d50c1dfd35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86ocn9xxhc.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>

>>>>> "Doug" == Doug Ausmus <dausmus at gmail.com> writes:

Doug>    Regarding PoE design: Although much of the older equipment
Doug> used spare lines for this and simply takes power, the new PoE
Doug> protocol has some handshaking on it if you want to be completely
Doug> compatible and protects some equipment that may not like power
Doug> on its lines accidentally plugging into a PoE port.  

There is a standard (802.3af) with the handshaking protocol but most
gear I've encountered in the last few years (unless it is some Cisco
or similar plenum-rated thing) doesn't use it.  You really need to
just figure out what you device needs and provide that.

The Alix uses "passive PoE".  It is tolerant of DC from something
under 20-something volts, not the 48V of 802.3af.  


-- 
Russell Senior, President
russell at personaltelco.net

From dausmus at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 03:47:51 2009
From: dausmus at gmail.com (Doug Ausmus)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:47:51 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet
In-Reply-To: <86ocn9xxhc.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>
References: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>
	<307640010911102359h1f72d5afk6aed68d50c1dfd35@mail.gmail.com>
	<86ocn9xxhc.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>
Message-ID: <307640010911110047n72ff0a4ch103f88ced367b159@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, that is a good philosophy. Most of the stuff that is not a new design
can use the 18VDC spare-wire design.

I do like the new idea of checking the line before applying power, though-
protects against some accidental magic-smoke release.
:-)

-Doug

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Russell Senior
<russell at personaltelco.net>wrote:

> >>>>> "Doug" == Doug Ausmus <dausmus at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Doug>    Regarding PoE design: Although much of the older equipment
> Doug> used spare lines for this and simply takes power, the new PoE
> Doug> protocol has some handshaking on it if you want to be completely
> Doug> compatible and protects some equipment that may not like power
> Doug> on its lines accidentally plugging into a PoE port.
>
> There is a standard (802.3af) with the handshaking protocol but most
> gear I've encountered in the last few years (unless it is some Cisco
> or similar plenum-rated thing) doesn't use it.  You really need to
> just figure out what you device needs and provide that.
>
> The Alix uses "passive PoE".  It is tolerant of DC from something
> under 20-something volts, not the 48V of 802.3af.
>
>
> --
> Russell Senior, President
> russell at personaltelco.net
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
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From paul at pjrc.com  Wed Nov 11 05:32:51 2009
From: paul at pjrc.com (Paul Stoffregen)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:32:51 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber]  [grouporder]
Message-ID: <4AFA92D3.3070703@pjrc.com>

For the next group order:

Digikey, 1, ATMEGA16L-8PU-ND, IC AVR MCU 16K 8MHZ 3V 40DIP, $6.56

From coldham2 at mac.com  Wed Nov 11 12:51:33 2009
From: coldham2 at mac.com (coldham2 at mac.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:51:33 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder]
In-Reply-To: <4AFA92D3.3070703@pjrc.com>
References: <4AFA92D3.3070703@pjrc.com>
Message-ID: <7DEEC758-5514-414C-B9A2-E0F40D9AA3AD@mac.com>

I remember reading (in some unreliable source, I'm sure) that a  
mega16 would run on low voltage, if you keep the clock speed below  
8MHz. Is that just crazy talk? I have a mega16 you can have if you  
want to find out!

Collin




On Nov 11, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Paul Stoffregen wrote:

> For the next group order:
>
> Digikey, 1, ATMEGA16L-8PU-ND, IC AVR MCU 16K 8MHZ 3V 40DIP, $6.56
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From paul at pjrc.com  Wed Nov 11 14:01:12 2009
From: paul at pjrc.com (Paul Stoffregen)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:01:12 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] mega16 & reverse engineering (was:
	grouporder)
In-Reply-To: <7DEEC758-5514-414C-B9A2-E0F40D9AA3AD@mac.com>
References: <4AFA92D3.3070703@pjrc.com>
	<7DEEC758-5514-414C-B9A2-E0F40D9AA3AD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4AFB09F8.1080302@pjrc.com>

Thanks!

I'm actually interested to do a little reverse engineering on Atmel's 
debug interfaces, so the voltage doesn't matter much.  I'll probably run 
everything at 5 volts.

AVR Studio supports 3 debug dongles (at least that I know), which are 
JTAGICE mkii, Dragon, and JTAGICE.  The latter is just a mega16 chip.  
If it has the right bootloader, AVR Studio is supposed to flash it with 
the firmware.  The firmware file "AVR Tools/JTAGICE/Upgrade.ebn" appears 
to be encrypted, or at least encoded in some way that isn't obvious.  
But there's no need to set the lock bits when programming the 
bootloader, so extracting the plaintext should just be a simple matter 
of programming a real chip and then extracting the code via ISP.

Whether those 6000-some lines of raw disassembly will be useful, or even 
if I'll ever really get around to this, and if I do, whether I ever 
actually use or even publish any info... those are all unknowns.

But the chip is under $7, and last night I checked AVR Studio's EULA.  
Version 4.1.7 (the latest) does not prohibit reverse engineering.  I put 
a chip on order to toss into my AVR project box, probably right next to 
the Dragon that's never been used yet (and also purchased pretty much 
only for reverse engineering).

If you give me a chip, to be perfectly honest, it'll probably sit unused 
in the box next to the unused Dragon for a very long time, possibly forever.


-Paul


ps: I'm pretty sure the non-L part can run at low voltages, even though 
it's not specified to do so.


coldham2 at mac.com wrote:
> I remember reading (in some unreliable source, I'm sure) that a  
> mega16 would run on low voltage, if you keep the clock speed below  
> 8MHz. Is that just crazy talk? I have a mega16 you can have if you  
> want to find out!
>
> Collin
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Paul Stoffregen wrote:
>
>   
>> For the next group order:
>>
>> Digikey, 1, ATMEGA16L-8PU-ND, IC AVR MCU 16K 8MHZ 3V 40DIP, $6.56
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfoAVR Tools/JTAGICE/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
>   


From coldham2 at mac.com  Wed Nov 11 14:21:34 2009
From: coldham2 at mac.com (coldham2 at mac.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:21:34 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] mega16 & reverse engineering
	(was:	grouporder)
In-Reply-To: <4AFB09F8.1080302@pjrc.com>
References: <4AFA92D3.3070703@pjrc.com>
	<7DEEC758-5514-414C-B9A2-E0F40D9AA3AD@mac.com>
	<4AFB09F8.1080302@pjrc.com>
Message-ID: <3AD1C697-C3B6-4FF9-8A82-839369008549@mac.com>

Well, I have 2 of them. one can sit in your box unused, and one will  
sit in mine! I'll bring it ?ber-next Monday (the 23rd.) I'll leave it  
to you to nix your order (if that's what you want to do.)



Collin


On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Paul Stoffregen wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> I'm actually interested to do a little reverse engineering on Atmel's
> debug interfaces, so the voltage doesn't matter much.  I'll  
> probably run
> everything at 5 volts.
>
> AVR Studio supports 3 debug dongles (at least that I know), which are
> JTAGICE mkii, Dragon, and JTAGICE.  The latter is just a mega16 chip.
> If it has the right bootloader, AVR Studio is supposed to flash it  
> with
> the firmware.  The firmware file "AVR Tools/JTAGICE/Upgrade.ebn"  
> appears
> to be encrypted, or at least encoded in some way that isn't obvious.
> But there's no need to set the lock bits when programming the
> bootloader, so extracting the plaintext should just be a simple matter
> of programming a real chip and then extracting the code via ISP.
>
> Whether those 6000-some lines of raw disassembly will be useful, or  
> even
> if I'll ever really get around to this, and if I do, whether I ever
> actually use or even publish any info... those are all unknowns.
>
> But the chip is under $7, and last night I checked AVR Studio's EULA.
> Version 4.1.7 (the latest) does not prohibit reverse engineering.   
> I put
> a chip on order to toss into my AVR project box, probably right  
> next to
> the Dragon that's never been used yet (and also purchased pretty much
> only for reverse engineering).
>
> If you give me a chip, to be perfectly honest, it'll probably sit  
> unused
> in the box next to the unused Dragon for a very long time, possibly  
> forever.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
> ps: I'm pretty sure the non-L part can run at low voltages, even  
> though
> it's not specified to do so.
>
>
> coldham2 at mac.com wrote:
>> I remember reading (in some unreliable source, I'm sure) that a
>> mega16 would run on low voltage, if you keep the clock speed below
>> 8MHz. Is that just crazy talk? I have a mega16 you can have if you
>> want to find out!
>>
>> Collin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Paul Stoffregen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> For the next group order:
>>>
>>> Digikey, 1, ATMEGA16L-8PU-ND, IC AVR MCU 16K 8MHZ 3V 40DIP, $6.56
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfoAVR Tools/JTAGICE/ 
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From cameron at soycow.org  Wed Nov 11 15:22:02 2009
From: cameron at soycow.org (Cameron Adamez)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:22:02 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Fwd: Pocket PC
References: <4AFB1BAF.3050307@timhatch.com>
Message-ID: <15C2F164-DD30-4CD5-9CC1-2C80A3243B15@soycow.org>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Tim Hatch <tim at timhatch.com>
> Date: November 11, 2009 12:16:47 PM PST
> To: Cameron Adamez <cameron at soycow.org>
> Subject: Pocket PC
>
> Hey...
>
> Think anyone at Dorkbot could use an iPAQ from a few years ago? It's
> running Windows CE 3 and has a serial dock.  Someone at work is  
> getting
> rid of it.
>
> Tim


From feedle at feedle.net  Wed Nov 11 19:15:50 2009
From: feedle at feedle.net (C. Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:15:50 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Power over Ethernet
In-Reply-To: <86ocn9xxhc.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>
References: <7a05808a0911102222u1769862ch70985ac788ce8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B854BA2E-EA15-40E0-B5AF-85CBC472E41A@mykle.com>
	<307640010911102359h1f72d5afk6aed68d50c1dfd35@mail.gmail.com>
	<86ocn9xxhc.fsf@coulee.tdb.com>
Message-ID: <E663C4A2-33AB-43D7-A96C-C299464238B1@feedle.net>


On Nov 11, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

> There is a standard (802.3af) with the handshaking protocol but most
> gear I've encountered in the last few years (unless it is some Cisco
> or similar plenum-rated thing) doesn't use it.  You really need to
> just figure out what you device needs and provide that.

Maybe it is because I work with VoIP handsets, Ethernet video cameras  
and IP-enabled door entry systems, but a growing number of enterprises  
have 802.3af PoE equipment.  Also, there's a couple of CPE devices  
being deployed by cable companies that actually use PoE to power the  
cable modem (although I don't think Comcast uses them).  You can buy a  
consumer-grade PoE switch (4 powered, 4 unpowered) for around $150: I  
think I paid $200 for my Netgear 16-port (8 powered) PoE switch I use  
at home.

Finding a chipset that natively supports 802.3af natively would be a  
great boon to those of us who are building network-enabled  
microcontroller projects.  Off-the-shelf 802.3af switches and power  
injectors are easy to obtain, and my Netgear 16-port switch would do a  
great job of powering all manner of sensor appliances without having  
to do any kind of weird mucking around with "unused pins"...

From markgross at thegnar.org  Thu Nov 12 00:16:05 2009
From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:16:05 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] updated teesny2 and teensy++ eagle libraries
	with Arduino symbols
Message-ID: <20091112051605.GA13664@thegnar.org>


I've updated the bitbucket archives for the eagle libraries I've
created.

http://bitbucket.org/markgross/teensy-things/

hg clone http://bitbucket.org/markgross/teensy-things/

The nice thing about these is that for arduino programmers you can lay
out your PCB with ardunio signal names and then simply plug your teensy
into the pcb and it will "just work" as expected.  more or less.

Please send me advice for how to make these libraries more useful /
correct or professional.

Thankks!

--mgross



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From dan_gilsdorf at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 12 02:50:18 2009
From: dan_gilsdorf at hotmail.com (Dan Gilsdorf)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:50:18 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] wheelchair motors for stage set
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1257929278.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
References: <mailman.54.1257929278.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
Message-ID: <COL116-W7E0A23931044D6BA0F670F5A90@phx.gbl>


I have a friend working with a theater company to build
a motorized bed that moves around the stage and spins in place.
His idea is to use wheelchair motors (currently it's moved by a 
stagehand inside the bed, but the stagehand has mutinied hence 
the need for motorization).  Does anyone have experience with
the use of such motors/controllers?

Many thanks!
Dan Gilsdorf
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
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From jmejia at tffenterprises.com  Thu Nov 12 22:12:56 2009
From: jmejia at tffenterprises.com (Jesse Mejia)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:12:56 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber]  Anyone have junk organs or organ parts?
In-Reply-To: <COL116-W7E0A23931044D6BA0F670F5A90@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.54.1257929278.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
	<COL116-W7E0A23931044D6BA0F670F5A90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <18684043-20F6-4462-805E-19448EB9BD9A@tffenterprises.com>

I'm interested in building a CV keyboard or three. Does anyone have  
any keyboard assemblies they're not doing anything with.. or busted/ 
unused organs they'd like me to break, pillage and/or remove for them?

In particular I'm looking for keyboards with one switch per key and a  
common bus... but I'm up for destroying things to find this common bus  
I seek.

Thanks!

-Jesse

From fate.one at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 22:41:07 2009
From: fate.one at gmail.com (Kyle B.)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:41:07 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone have junk organs or organ parts?
In-Reply-To: <18684043-20F6-4462-805E-19448EB9BD9A@tffenterprises.com>
References: <mailman.54.1257929278.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
	<COL116-W7E0A23931044D6BA0F670F5A90@phx.gbl>
	<18684043-20F6-4462-805E-19448EB9BD9A@tffenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <5296fad50911121941v7c241back55138c3471a30265@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a Casio SK-1 and a Casio SK-5 you can have. They might not be
something you'd
want to totally destroy though as they're classic circuit bending
hardware. I'm trying to
release some of my junk back in to the wild and I'd rather see them
end up in the hands
of someone who can put them to good use than end up at Goodwill.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Jesse Mejia <jmejia at tffenterprises.com> wrote:
> I'm interested in building a CV keyboard or three. Does anyone have
> any keyboard assemblies they're not doing anything with.. or busted/
> unused organs they'd like me to break, pillage and/or remove for them?
>
> In particular I'm looking for keyboards with one switch per key and a
> common bus... but I'm up for destroying things to find this common bus
> I seek.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Jesse
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>

From mykle at mykle.com  Fri Nov 13 00:10:46 2009
From: mykle at mykle.com (Mykle Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:10:46 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Anyone have junk organs or organ parts?
In-Reply-To: <18684043-20F6-4462-805E-19448EB9BD9A@tffenterprises.com>
References: <mailman.54.1257929278.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
	<COL116-W7E0A23931044D6BA0F670F5A90@phx.gbl>
	<18684043-20F6-4462-805E-19448EB9BD9A@tffenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <B25C1BB8-97B2-491C-AB4F-00EDB97EA7D1@mykle.com>

yes!  i have two key sets from a home organ that I disassembled,
which I was going to do some kind of crazy project with.
full-size keys, probably adding up to close to five octaves
between the two halves.  i'm not particularly interested in
that project any more, and i'd love to get them our of my
garage.

for the record, a home organ is kind of like a sperm whale:
full of value!  I extracted an amplifier, a spring reverb
and a volume pedal from this one, all of which made their
way into my guitar kit.  (the speaker was slated to become
part of a portable sound system, but i never finished that
project either.)

meanwhile: does anybody in dorkbotland happen to have an old,
dusty set of Emagic Logic 6 install disks?  i have an old,
dusty computer and an old, dusty dongle ...

-m-

On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:12 PMThursday, Jesse Mejia wrote:

> I'm interested in building a CV keyboard or three. Does anyone have
> any keyboard assemblies they're not doing anything with.. or busted/
> unused organs they'd like me to break, pillage and/or remove for them?
>
> In particular I'm looking for keyboards with one switch per key and a
> common bus... but I'm up for destroying things to find this common bus
> I seek.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Jesse
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

---
HELP!  A Bear is Eating Me!
http://helpabeariseatingme.com


From james.neal at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 00:51:31 2009
From: james.neal at gmail.com (Laen)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:51:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] No group order this week
Message-ID: <fa41c445-b1c3-4ad4-a473-0d15b23de501@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

I'm going to be out of town for Thanksgiving week (which includes the
next Dorkbot), so no group order this week.

See ya'll (y'all?) next time!
-Laen

From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 13:51:54 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:51:54 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Workshop: circuit design for fabrication (PNCA
	29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
Message-ID: <0BEE8FC2-BF9C-4BF0-BA76-17D6E33ECEC9@gmail.com>

Workshop: circuit design for fabrication (PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)


As many of you may be aware Laen has been putting together a group  
ordering process for circuit board fabrications somewhat like  
sparkfuns batchpcb service except with less time lag and the  
fabrication is not offshored.

To introduce you to the tools needed to create circuit boards for this  
service (and most other circuit board services) we are presenting a  
workshop teaching you how to design a circuit board using Eagle PCB  
with an emphasis on getting designs that can be fabricated.

Workshop Time and Location
The workshop will be in two sessions: a main session on the 29th of  
November, and a followup session on the 6th of December. Both Sessions  
will be from 1-5 pm at PNCA (NW12th and Johnson) room #205 If you are  
unable to make the first main session a second session through open  
techspace will be held at TechShop on Saturday December 6th.

Fabrication included
Signing up for the class gets you three copies of your design in the  
December order (up to 2 square inches of board space). Designs  
completed by the 10th of December will be included in this months PCB  
run and can be picked up at the meeting on the 21st (or mailed).

Topics covered.
Creating schematics
Organizing your files and libraries.
Laying out your parts effectively.
Routing your signals
Creating / finding parts that you need.
Documenting your board in the silkscreen
Using DRUs to design for a specific board fabricator
Using the ERC to check your designs for problems
The follow up session will focus on resolving issues with your designs  
and getting them ready to submit for fabrication.

What you will need
You should have some basic understanding of circuits but it is not  
critical You will need to bring a laptop which is capable of running  
eagle (linux,windows or mac -- see http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm).  
The class is $35 and is limited to 30 so it is best to reserve a space  
in the class. Please rsvp athttp://tempusdictum.com/tdproducts.html  
(eagle for fabrication)
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From dorkbot at mersenne.com  Fri Nov 13 14:03:20 2009
From: dorkbot at mersenne.com (dave madden)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:03:20 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Workshop: circuit design for fabrication
 (PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.355.1258138330.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
References: <mailman.355.1258138330.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
Message-ID: <1258139000.5694.43.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>

On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 13:52 -0500, Donald Delmar Davis
<ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:

> To introduce you to the tools needed to create circuit boards for this
> service (and most other circuit board services) we are presenting a  
> workshop teaching you how to design a circuit board using Eagle PCB  
> with an emphasis on getting designs that can be fabricated.

FWIW, I used (and was very impressed by) Eagle layout, but found the
size limit problematic.  I needed to make a larger board, and didn't
have the dosh to buy an upgraded version, so I tried out the free
package KiCad.  It's not anywhere near as nice (lacks curved tracks and
zone fill is ugly, for starters) but it is free and has no layer or size
limitations.

I'm doing much less electronics these days, but would be willing to help
anybody who's having trouble getting up to speed with KiCad.
-- 
David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201


From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:09:51 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:09:51 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Workshop: circuit design for fabrication
	(PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
In-Reply-To: <0BEE8FC2-BF9C-4BF0-BA76-17D6E33ECEC9@gmail.com>
References: <0BEE8FC2-BF9C-4BF0-BA76-17D6E33ECEC9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF1084CB-3AE7-4493-9892-D7AA364E699B@gmail.com>

Minor Correction: The Open TechSpace session is on December 5th.

Schedule:
29 November 09 (Sunday) 1-5pm PNCA -- Main Class.
05 December 09 (Saturday) 1-5pm TechShop -- Main Class (opentechspace  
session)
06 December 09 (Sunday) 1-5 pm PNCA -- follow up session to work on  
designs.
10 December 09 (Monday) 5 pm. (on line) Deadline to submit designs for  
fabrication
21 December 09 (Monday) 7-10pm BackSpace -- Boards delivered at  
Dorkbot meeting
On Nov 13, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Donald Delmar Davis wrote:

> Workshop: circuit design for fabrication (PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
> <4099553696_c4e1bf0bf3.jpg>
>
> As many of you may be aware Laen has been putting together a group  
> ordering process for circuit board fabrications somewhat like  
> sparkfuns batchpcb service except with less time lag and the  
> fabrication is not offshored.
>
> To introduce you to the tools needed to create circuit boards for  
> this service (and most other circuit board services) we are  
> presenting a workshop teaching you how to design a circuit board  
> using Eagle PCB with an emphasis on getting designs that can be  
> fabricated.
>
> Workshop Time and Location
> The workshop will be in two sessions: a main session on the 29th of  
> November, and a followup session on the 6th of December. Both  
> Sessions will be from 1-5 pm at PNCA (NW12th and Johnson) room #205  
> If you are unable to make the first main session a second session  
> through open techspace will be held at TechShop on Saturday December  
> 6th.
>
> Fabrication included
> Signing up for the class gets you three copies of your design in the  
> December order (up to 2 square inches of board space). Designs  
> completed by the 10th of December will be included in this months  
> PCB run and can be picked up at the meeting on the 21st (or mailed).
>
> Topics covered.
> Creating schematics
> Organizing your files and libraries.
> Laying out your parts effectively.
> Routing your signals
> Creating / finding parts that you need.
> Documenting your board in the silkscreen
> Using DRUs to design for a specific board fabricator
> Using the ERC to check your designs for problems
> The follow up session will focus on resolving issues with your  
> designs and getting them ready to submit for fabrication.
>
> What you will need
> You should have some basic understanding of circuits but it is not  
> critical You will need to bring a laptop which is capable of running  
> eagle (linux,windows or mac -- see http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm).  
> The class is $35 and is limited to 30 so it is best to reserve a  
> space in the class. Please rsvp athttp://tempusdictum.com/tdproducts.html 
>  (eagle for fabrication)
>

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From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:11:30 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:30 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Workshop: circuit design for fabrication
	(PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
In-Reply-To: <1258139000.5694.43.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
References: <mailman.355.1258138330.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
	<1258139000.5694.43.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <33397970-38FB-46D7-846A-0E1AD0EA14B3@gmail.com>

Dave,

We are using Eagle because it is best known within the group and best  
supported by the fabrication community.

Don.
On Nov 13, 2009, at 11:03 AM, dave madden wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 13:52 -0500, Donald Delmar Davis
> <ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To introduce you to the tools needed to create circuit boards for  
>> this
>> service (and most other circuit board services) we are presenting a
>> workshop teaching you how to design a circuit board using Eagle PCB
>> with an emphasis on getting designs that can be fabricated.
>
> FWIW, I used (and was very impressed by) Eagle layout, but found the
> size limit problematic.  I needed to make a larger board, and didn't
> have the dosh to buy an upgraded version, so I tried out the free
> package KiCad.  It's not anywhere near as nice (lacks curved tracks  
> and
> zone fill is ugly, for starters) but it is free and has no layer or  
> size
> limitations.
>
> I'm doing much less electronics these days, but would be willing to  
> help
> anybody who's having trouble getting up to speed with KiCad.
> -- 
> David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
> 1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From mykle at mykle.com  Fri Nov 13 14:11:59 2009
From: mykle at mykle.com (Mykle Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:59 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Workshop: circuit design for fabrication
	(PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
In-Reply-To: <0BEE8FC2-BF9C-4BF0-BA76-17D6E33ECEC9@gmail.com>
References: <0BEE8FC2-BF9C-4BF0-BA76-17D6E33ECEC9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F48239DD-28E5-4B69-8431-0FF8CAABE196@mykle.com>

ha!  finally i can go to one of these!  sign me up!

-m-

On Nov 13, 2009, at 10:51 AMFriday, Donald Delmar Davis wrote:

> Workshop: circuit design for fabrication (PNCA 29Nov09 1-5pm $35)
> <4099553696_c4e1bf0bf3.jpg>
>
> As many of you may be aware Laen has been putting together a group  
> ordering process for circuit board fabrications somewhat like  
> sparkfuns batchpcb service except with less time lag and the  
> fabrication is not offshored.
>
> To introduce you to the tools needed to create circuit boards for  
> this service (and most other circuit board services) we are  
> presenting a workshop teaching you how to design a circuit board  
> using Eagle PCB with an emphasis on getting designs that can be  
> fabricated.
>
> Workshop Time and Location
> The workshop will be in two sessions: a main session on the 29th of  
> November, and a followup session on the 6th of December. Both  
> Sessions will be from 1-5 pm at PNCA (NW12th and Johnson) room #205  
> If you are unable to make the first main session a second session  
> through open techspace will be held at TechShop on Saturday December  
> 6th.
>
> Fabrication included
> Signing up for the class gets you three copies of your design in the  
> December order (up to 2 square inches of board space). Designs  
> completed by the 10th of December will be included in this months  
> PCB run and can be picked up at the meeting on the 21st (or mailed).
>
> Topics covered.
> Creating schematics
> Organizing your files and libraries.
> Laying out your parts effectively.
> Routing your signals
> Creating / finding parts that you need.
> Documenting your board in the silkscreen
> Using DRUs to design for a specific board fabricator
> Using the ERC to check your designs for problems
> The follow up session will focus on resolving issues with your  
> designs and getting them ready to submit for fabrication.
>
> What you will need
> You should have some basic understanding of circuits but it is not  
> critical You will need to bring a laptop which is capable of running  
> eagle (linux,windows or mac -- see http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm).  
> The class is $35 and is limited to 30 so it is best to reserve a  
> space in the class. Please rsvp athttp://tempusdictum.com/tdproducts.html 
>  (eagle for fabrication)
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

---
HELP!  A Bear is Eating Me!
http://helpabeariseatingme.com

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From tlockney at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 15:01:58 2009
From: tlockney at gmail.com (Thomas Lockney)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:01:58 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Fwd: [dorkbotsf-announce] Next Meeting! Nov 18
	at Noisebridge!
In-Reply-To: <20091113053250.GA21271@srl.org>
References: <20091113053250.GA21271@srl.org>
Message-ID: <7a05808a0911131201g7356a75m57ddd8b4b46471fd@mail.gmail.com>

In case any of you are going to be in SF next week, Anselm will be doing a
demo of some AR stuff -->

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Karen Marcelo <karen at srl.org>
Date: Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Subject: [dorkbotsf-announce] Next Meeting! Nov 18 at Noisebridge!
To: dorkbotsf-blabber at dorkbot.org, dorkbotsf-announce at dorkbot.org


yes we're having another one (the 7th year has been the busiest one
yet!) next wed. nov 18 at noisebridge!  save the date!

details:

when:   nov 18 2009 wed 7:30pm
where:  noisebridge
       2169 mission, SF

speakers:

anselm hook - augmentia: scratching the surface of augmented reality
http://hook.org

shelly farnham - steve the robot h.e.ai.d.: a large scale generative
music and laser play space
http://shellyfarnham.com

david gessel - stalking slanderizing trolls
http://blackrosetech.com

gian pablo villamil - 360 degree panoramic video without the megabucks
http://villamil.org/?p=621

if you want to speak or host a future dorkbotSF, let karen marcelo know!
dorkbotsf [at] dorkbot (dot) org

many thanks to this month's host noisebridge particularly jake
appelbaum


........................................................................
.........dorkbot: people doing strange things with electricity..........
..........................http://dorkbot.org............................
........................................................................



-- 
Thomas Lockney
Instigator, Geek, Techie
http://www.google.com/profiles/tlockney
twitter: @tlockney
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From dorkbot at mersenne.com  Sun Nov 15 14:35:39 2009
From: dorkbot at mersenne.com (dave madden)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:35:39 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] AllElectronics Purchasers?
Message-ID: <1258313739.10410.12.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>

I'm thinking of ordering some stuff from AllElectronics...anybody else
need anything?  I'd be happy to aggregate orders for this nonstandard
vendor and deliver them at the following Dorkbot meeting (same as the
ordinary group order system, but Laen doesn't have to do any extra
work!)

Email me direct w/ copy to list.  I'll probably order on 11/23 with
delivery 11/30 or 12/7, depending on feedback about people's
Thanksgiving plans.

Regards,
-- 
David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201


From thomas at lockney.net  Sun Nov 15 14:50:44 2009
From: thomas at lockney.net (Thomas Lockney)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:50:44 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] AllElectronics Purchasers?
In-Reply-To: <1258313739.10410.12.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
References: <1258313739.10410.12.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <7a05808a0911151150l4b5d8e12pf707e1ca15c2b73c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:35 AM, dave madden <dorkbot at mersenne.com> wrote:

> Email me direct w/ copy to list.  I'll probably order on 11/23 with
> delivery 11/30 or 12/7, depending on feedback about people's
> Thanksgiving plans.
>

There is no meeting on the 30th, the next meeting is the 23rd and then
another on 12/7 (http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/meetings). Just wanted to make
sure you realized that. ;~)
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From jmejia at tffenterprises.com  Sun Nov 15 15:44:12 2009
From: jmejia at tffenterprises.com (Jesse Mejia)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:44:12 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] AllElectronics Purchasers?
In-Reply-To: <1258313739.10410.12.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
References: <1258313739.10410.12.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <DDE202A7-B9D8-4A60-8DC2-8EF9C7B983DA@tffenterprises.com>

I'd love 10 of these guys: CAT# MTS-4PC
(SPDT toggle @ .90 cents)

Thanks for offering this!

-Jesse

On Nov 15, 2009, at 11:35 AM, dave madden wrote:

> I'm thinking of ordering some stuff from AllElectronics...anybody else
> need anything?  I'd be happy to aggregate orders for this nonstandard
> vendor and deliver them at the following Dorkbot meeting (same as the
> ordinary group order system, but Laen doesn't have to do any extra
> work!)
>
> Email me direct w/ copy to list.  I'll probably order on 11/23 with
> delivery 11/30 or 12/7, depending on feedback about people's
> Thanksgiving plans.
>
> Regards,
> -- 
> David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
> 1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From paul at pjrc.com  Tue Nov 17 16:47:40 2009
From: paul at pjrc.com (Paul Stoffregen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:47:40 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] iLife / iMovie disc?
Message-ID: <4B0319FC.5070301@pjrc.com>

Does any have a iLife '09 or newish mac install disc I could borrow?

Recently I've been trying to learn iMovie.  My mac has version '08 and I 
was hoping to give '09 a try.  Version '08, it turns out, was a complete 
redesign and several features are missing that were put back in for '09.

I'll probably buy '10 when it's available in couple months.  For now I'm 
just learning.


Thanks,

-Paul

From dementedchihuahua at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 01:17:43 2009
From: dementedchihuahua at gmail.com (Stanley Ames)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:17:43 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
Message-ID: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>

I'm attempting--still--to communicate with my Generation 1 RepRap
electronics (PIC16648A based boards communicating with the computer through
a DB9 connector to MAX232N chip to the Pics). I've got the packet generation
down along with the 8 bit CRC I was working to calculate (thanks to those
who offered help and suggestions!). Now I'm on to actually interfacing
python with a USB port to shove data into the boards.

I'm using the Pyusb<http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pyusb/index.php?title=Main_Page>package.
Don't know if anyone is familiar with that but it doesn't seem too
hard to use. Anyway, all this is leading up to...I'm not sure how to
structure my data on the USB side of things. On the RS-232 side, it is
simple, I ram my data down a wire using built-in protocals at given
baudrates. No problem. How do I structure stuff on the USB side?

How does this translate into the USB end of things? I've been unable to find
any specification on how the converter addresses the various lines on the
DB9 connector.

My python code for connecting to the usb looks something like this.

import usb
>
> busses = usb.busses()
>
> for bus in busses:
>     devices = bus.devices()
>


>     for dev in devices:
>


>         if dev.idVendor = 1659   #Unique to this device, at least on my
> computer.
>             devhandle = dev.open()
>             devhandle.setConfiguration(1)
>             devhandle.claimInterface(0)
>
> #Do something with it here...don't know how really.
>
> #Release the device.
> devhandle.releaseInterface()
>

Now, I'm not looking for python specific help or even help with this python
module, I can figure that stuff out. What I need is a general description of
what needs to happen in order for me to shove my packet through this device
and have it emerge on the other end in a know configuration. Something like,
"attach x header information containing sync data and addressing
instructions to the front of your packet" is what I am thinking. Or maybe
I'm way off.

Anyway, too long of an email. Any help is good help!

Thanks

Stanley Ames
-- 
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
a period of consequences.

--Winston Churchill
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From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 02:51:54 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:51:54 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A77DC23-87C2-4D12-A658-A7C4726244A7@gmail.com>

On most operating system libusb will be unable to do much without  
unloading the kernel driver first. The code below will fail to at the  
claim interface part and since at that point you are talking to the  
usb to serial converter you aren't gaining much by using the usb  
library anyways.

If you are using a usb to serial adapter then as far as the host  
computer is concerned it is  just serial and pyserial is what you want  
to use. DB9=serial.

If you want to ditch the rs232 and talk (using a usb capable pic or  
avr or arm) for instance then what you are asking will make sense.



On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Stanley Ames wrote:

> I'm attempting--still--to communicate with my Generation 1 RepRap  
> electronics (PIC16648A based boards communicating with the computer  
> through a DB9 connector to MAX232N chip to the Pics). I've got the  
> packet generation down along with the 8 bit CRC I was working to  
> calculate (thanks to those who offered help and suggestions!). Now  
> I'm on to actually interfacing python with a USB port to shove data  
> into the boards.
>
> I'm using the Pyusb package. Don't know if anyone is familiar with  
> that but it doesn't seem too hard to use. Anyway, all this is  
> leading up to...I'm not sure how to structure my data on the USB  
> side of things. On the RS-232 side, it is simple, I ram my data down  
> a wire using built-in protocals at given baudrates. No problem. How  
> do I structure stuff on the USB side?
>
> How does this translate into the USB end of things? I've been unable  
> to find any specification on how the converter addresses the various  
> lines on the DB9 connector.
>
> My python code for connecting to the usb looks something like this.
>
> import usb
>
> busses = usb.busses()
>
> for bus in busses:
>     devices = bus.devices()
>
>     for dev in devices:
>
>         if dev.idVendor = 1659   #Unique to this device, at least on  
> my computer.
>             devhandle = dev.open()
>             devhandle.setConfiguration(1)
>             devhandle.claimInterface(0)
>
> #Do something with it here...don't know how really.
>
> #Release the device.
> devhandle.releaseInterface()
>
> Now, I'm not looking for python specific help or even help with this  
> python module, I can figure that stuff out. What I need is a general  
> description of what needs to happen in order for me to shove my  
> packet through this device and have it emerge on the other end in a  
> know configuration. Something like, "attach x header information  
> containing sync data and addressing instructions to the front of  
> your packet" is what I am thinking. Or maybe I'm way off.
>
> Anyway, too long of an email. Any help is good help!
>
> Thanks
>
> Stanley Ames
> -- 
> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and  
> baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place  
> we are entering a period of consequences.
>
> --Winston Churchill
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

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From dementedchihuahua at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 10:46:39 2009
From: dementedchihuahua at gmail.com (Stanley Ames)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:46:39 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <0A77DC23-87C2-4D12-A658-A7C4726244A7@gmail.com>
References: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>
	<0A77DC23-87C2-4D12-A658-A7C4726244A7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6dbff3170911190746p7e7518fcye1ee4acdf17e698a@mail.gmail.com>

I've found that not to be strictly true. The reprap host software will not
recognize the electronics connected through a USB to DB9 converter but does
if its actually through a physical DB9. Under what conditions would this
matter? How would it know if, as you mentioned, the computer just sees it as
a serial port?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Donald Delmar Davis <
ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:

> On most operating system libusb will be unable to do much without unloading
> the kernel driver first. The code below will fail to at the claim interface
> part and since at that point you are talking to the usb to serial converter
> you aren't gaining much by using the usb library anyways.
>
> If you are using a usb to serial adapter then as far as the host computer
> is concerned it is  just serial and pyserial is what you want to use.
> DB9=serial.
>
> If you want to ditch the rs232 and talk (using a usb capable pic or avr or
> arm) for instance then what you are asking will make sense.
>
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Stanley Ames wrote:
>
> I'm attempting--still--to communicate with my Generation 1 RepRap
> electronics (PIC16648A based boards communicating with the computer through
> a DB9 connector to MAX232N chip to the Pics). I've got the packet generation
> down along with the 8 bit CRC I was working to calculate (thanks to those
> who offered help and suggestions!). Now I'm on to actually interfacing
> python with a USB port to shove data into the boards.
>
> I'm using the Pyusb<http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pyusb/index.php?title=Main_Page>package. Don't know if anyone is familiar with that but it doesn't seem too
> hard to use. Anyway, all this is leading up to...I'm not sure how to
> structure my data on the USB side of things. On the RS-232 side, it is
> simple, I ram my data down a wire using built-in protocals at given
> baudrates. No problem. How do I structure stuff on the USB side?
>
> How does this translate into the USB end of things? I've been unable to
> find any specification on how the converter addresses the various lines on
> the DB9 connector.
>
> My python code for connecting to the usb looks something like this.
>
> import usb
>>
>> busses = usb.busses()
>>
>> for bus in busses:
>>     devices = bus.devices()
>>
>
>
>>     for dev in devices:
>>
>
>
>>         if dev.idVendor = 1659   #Unique to this device, at least on my
>> computer.
>>             devhandle = dev.open()
>>             devhandle.setConfiguration(1)
>>             devhandle.claimInterface(0)
>>
>> #Do something with it here...don't know how really.
>>
>> #Release the device.
>> devhandle.releaseInterface()
>>
>
> Now, I'm not looking for python specific help or even help with this python
> module, I can figure that stuff out. What I need is a general description of
> what needs to happen in order for me to shove my packet through this device
> and have it emerge on the other end in a know configuration. Something like,
> "attach x header information containing sync data and addressing
> instructions to the front of your packet" is what I am thinking. Or maybe
> I'm way off.
>
> Anyway, too long of an email. Any help is good help!
>
> Thanks
>
> Stanley Ames
> --
> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
> expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
> a period of consequences.
>
> --Winston Churchill
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>



-- 
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
a period of consequences.

--Winston Churchill
-------------- next part --------------
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From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 11:29:35 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:29:35 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <6dbff3170911190746p7e7518fcye1ee4acdf17e698a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>
	<0A77DC23-87C2-4D12-A658-A7C4726244A7@gmail.com>
	<6dbff3170911190746p7e7518fcye1ee4acdf17e698a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E2349A7-F2A6-40EF-AF31-6887A4AA5412@gmail.com>

My apologies,

You describe serial hardware and then ask about usb.
Max 232 is serial also a serial converter.

Maybe someone else can help here. I know there are reprap and pic  
people in this group. somewhere.


On Nov 19, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Stanley Ames wrote:

> I've found that not to be strictly true. The reprap host software  
> will not recognize the electronics connected through a USB to DB9  
> converter but does if its actually through a physical DB9. Under  
> what conditions would this matter? How would it know if, as you  
> mentioned, the computer just sees it as a serial port?
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Donald Delmar Davis <ddelmardavis at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> On most operating system libusb will be unable to do much without  
> unloading the kernel driver first. The code below will fail to at  
> the claim interface part and since at that point you are talking to  
> the usb to serial converter you aren't gaining much by using the usb  
> library anyways.
>
> If you are using a usb to serial adapter then as far as the host  
> computer is concerned it is  just serial and pyserial is what you  
> want to use. DB9=serial.
>
> If you want to ditch the rs232 and talk (using a usb capable pic or  
> avr or arm) for instance then what you are asking will make sense.
>
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Stanley Ames wrote:
>
>> I'm attempting--still--to communicate with my Generation 1 RepRap  
>> electronics (PIC16648A based boards communicating with the computer  
>> through a DB9 connector to MAX232N chip to the Pics). I've got the  
>> packet generation down along with the 8 bit CRC I was working to  
>> calculate (thanks to those who offered help and suggestions!). Now  
>> I'm on to actually interfacing python with a USB port to shove data  
>> into the boards.
>>
>> I'm using the Pyusb package. Don't know if anyone is familiar with  
>> that but it doesn't seem too hard to use. Anyway, all this is  
>> leading up to...I'm not sure how to structure my data on the USB  
>> side of things. On the RS-232 side, it is simple, I ram my data  
>> down a wire using built-in protocals at given baudrates. No  
>> problem. How do I structure stuff on the USB side?
>>
>> How does this translate into the USB end of things? I've been  
>> unable to find any specification on how the converter addresses the  
>> various lines on the DB9 connector.
>>
>> My python code for connecting to the usb looks something like this.
>>
>> import usb
>>
>> busses = usb.busses()
>>
>> for bus in busses:
>>     devices = bus.devices()
>>
>>     for dev in devices:
>>
>>         if dev.idVendor = 1659   #Unique to this device, at least  
>> on my computer.
>>             devhandle = dev.open()
>>             devhandle.setConfiguration(1)
>>             devhandle.claimInterface(0)
>>
>> #Do something with it here...don't know how really.
>>
>> #Release the device.
>> devhandle.releaseInterface()
>>
>> Now, I'm not looking for python specific help or even help with  
>> this python module, I can figure that stuff out. What I need is a  
>> general description of what needs to happen in order for me to  
>> shove my packet through this device and have it emerge on the other  
>> end in a know configuration. Something like, "attach x header  
>> information containing sync data and addressing instructions to the  
>> front of your packet" is what I am thinking. Or maybe I'm way off.
>>
>> Anyway, too long of an email. Any help is good help!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Stanley Ames
>> -- 
>> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and  
>> baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its  
>> place we are entering a period of consequences.
>>
>> --Winston Churchill
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
>
> -- 
> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and  
> baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place  
> we are entering a period of consequences.
>
> --Winston Churchill
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber

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From dementedchihuahua at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 11:40:50 2009
From: dementedchihuahua at gmail.com (Stanley Ames)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:40:50 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <2E2349A7-F2A6-40EF-AF31-6887A4AA5412@gmail.com>
References: <6dbff3170911182217l4bb80df0j585cb25a32503fe9@mail.gmail.com>
	<0A77DC23-87C2-4D12-A658-A7C4726244A7@gmail.com>
	<6dbff3170911190746p7e7518fcye1ee4acdf17e698a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E2349A7-F2A6-40EF-AF31-6887A4AA5412@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6dbff3170911190840h31384dfbp2c96e85170ed4c8f@mail.gmail.com>

It's funny you mentioned pyserial. I started poking around in it and the
documentation says I can open port /dev/ttyUSB0 with the serial call...which
confuses the hell out of me. I did and tried to use it but I get no results.
Even tried just opening /dev/ttyS0 and using that. Still nothing.

To make myself clear here (my fault for not being specific) about how things
are connected:

Host Software --> USB port --> DB9 plug on electronics --> MAX232N chip -->
PICs. PICs speak SNAP <http://www.hth.com/snap/> protocol with the following
specifics <http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/SNAPComms>. When trying to
connect to the old host software through the USB to RS-232 converter, I get
nothing. The host software does not see it. So, I figured I would need to
write a little program to take the communication on the computer end and
pass it through the USB to RS-232 converter manually. But, I'm not really
sure how to do that.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Donald Delmar Davis <ddelmardavis at gmail.com
> wrote:

> My apologies,
>
> You describe serial hardware and then ask about usb.
> Max 232 is serial also a serial converter.
>
> Maybe someone else can help here. I know there are reprap and pic people in
> this group. somewhere.
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Stanley Ames wrote:
>
> I've found that not to be strictly true. The reprap host software will not
> recognize the electronics connected through a USB to DB9 converter but does
> if its actually through a physical DB9. Under what conditions would this
> matter? How would it know if, as you mentioned, the computer just sees it as
> a serial port?
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Donald Delmar Davis <
> ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On most operating system libusb will be unable to do much without
>> unloading the kernel driver first. The code below will fail to at the claim
>> interface part and since at that point you are talking to the usb to serial
>> converter you aren't gaining much by using the usb library anyways.
>>
>> If you are using a usb to serial adapter then as far as the host computer
>> is concerned it is  just serial and pyserial is what you want to use.
>> DB9=serial.
>>
>> If you want to ditch the rs232 and talk (using a usb capable pic or avr or
>> arm) for instance then what you are asking will make sense.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Stanley Ames wrote:
>>
>> I'm attempting--still--to communicate with my Generation 1 RepRap
>> electronics (PIC16648A based boards communicating with the computer through
>> a DB9 connector to MAX232N chip to the Pics). I've got the packet generation
>> down along with the 8 bit CRC I was working to calculate (thanks to those
>> who offered help and suggestions!). Now I'm on to actually interfacing
>> python with a USB port to shove data into the boards.
>>
>> I'm using the Pyusb<http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pyusb/index.php?title=Main_Page>package. Don't know if anyone is familiar with that but it doesn't seem too
>> hard to use. Anyway, all this is leading up to...I'm not sure how to
>> structure my data on the USB side of things. On the RS-232 side, it is
>> simple, I ram my data down a wire using built-in protocals at given
>> baudrates. No problem. How do I structure stuff on the USB side?
>>
>> How does this translate into the USB end of things? I've been unable to
>> find any specification on how the converter addresses the various lines on
>> the DB9 connector.
>>
>> My python code for connecting to the usb looks something like this.
>>
>> import usb
>>>
>>> busses = usb.busses()
>>>
>>> for bus in busses:
>>>     devices = bus.devices()
>>>
>>
>>
>>>     for dev in devices:
>>>
>>
>>
>>>         if dev.idVendor = 1659   #Unique to this device, at least on my
>>> computer.
>>>             devhandle = dev.open()
>>>             devhandle.setConfiguration(1)
>>>             devhandle.claimInterface(0)
>>>
>>> #Do something with it here...don't know how really.
>>>
>>> #Release the device.
>>> devhandle.releaseInterface()
>>>
>>
>> Now, I'm not looking for python specific help or even help with this
>> python module, I can figure that stuff out. What I need is a general
>> description of what needs to happen in order for me to shove my packet
>> through this device and have it emerge on the other end in a know
>> configuration. Something like, "attach x header information containing sync
>> data and addressing instructions to the front of your packet" is what I am
>> thinking. Or maybe I'm way off.
>>
>> Anyway, too long of an email. Any help is good help!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Stanley Ames
>> --
>> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
>> expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
>> a period of consequences.
>>
>> --Winston Churchill
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>
>
>
>
> --
> The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
> expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
> a period of consequences.
>
> --Winston Churchill
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>



-- 
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
a period of consequences.

--Winston Churchill
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From richard.harding at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 12:33:24 2009
From: richard.harding at gmail.com (Richard Harding)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:33:24 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
	Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
Message-ID: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>

I have a (physically) small led project utilizing an AVR (not sure which one
yet, probably an attinyxx) to trigger mosfets to randomly fade 5 colors of
leds.
It's powered by small (50-80 mAh) 3.7v li-poly cells in parallel, so I want
to make the power usage as efficient as possible. I'm wondering if anyone
could weigh in on whether I should use voltage regulators to supply current
to each color (Red=2.1v, Green=2.2v, Blue=3.5v, etc.), or just use
current-limiting resistors (the resistor route would be a lot easier and
cheaper, but I wonder if the VR route would be more power-efficient).
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From dorkbot at mersenne.com  Thu Nov 19 13:09:31 2009
From: dorkbot at mersenne.com (dave madden)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:09:31 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1036.1258648861.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
References: <mailman.1036.1258648861.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
Message-ID: <1258654171.6500.15.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 11:41 -0500, Stanley Ames
<dementedchihuahua at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's funny you mentioned pyserial. I started poking around in it and
> the documentation says I can open port /dev/ttyUSB0 with the serial
> call...which confuses the hell out of me. I did and tried to use it
> but I get no results.
> Even tried just opening /dev/ttyS0 and using that. Still nothing.

Serial problems can be tough to debug, unless you spent the best years
of your life fiddling around with analog modems and trying to get that
extra couple of characters per second out of them...

If you don't have a hunch where the problem is, the fastest and easiest
way to debug is to go down the serial connection, one connector at a
time, and see if the bits are making it that far.  The easiest way to do
that is to put in a loopback wire (connect TX to RX) and see if what you
send is coming back.  You can use minicom on Linux for that purpose.
Unfortunately, serial is sort of passe' , so I'm not aware of any
smiley, happy-graphics GUIs for configuring your serial port, or setting
up Minicom.

So...here's what I'd do:

0. Unplug serial/usb dongle
1. In one window, "tail -f /var/log/messages"
2. Plug in serial/usb dongle
3. Look for message in "tail" window that says something about
USB-Serial connector, ttyUSB0, etc.  (It might say "ttyUSB1" or
"ttyACM0", which is very important to notice!)
4. As root, do "minicom -s -o"
5. Under serial settings, set the device to "/dev/ttyXXXX" where XXXX is
the name you noticed in step 3.
6. MAKE SURE HARDWARE & SOFTWARE FLOW CONTROL ARE TURNED OFF!
7. Exit minicom configuration (but not minicom itself)
8. Jumper pins 2 & 3 on the DB9 of your USB dongle
9. Type in the minicom window.  If you can see what you type, bits are
making it from your keyboard, out the dongle, around your jumper, back
through the dongle, and onto your screen.
10. Remove jumper, plug dongle into RepRap.
11. Type (by hand) some RepRap command in minicom.  If you don't know a
command, you might be able to just type something.  All you're looking
for is a blink or beep or some indication that the RepRap received data.
11a.  If the RepRap doesn't respond, it could be a baud rate problem, or
RX and TX could be switched.  Investigate carefully.
12. Repeat 0-11 until you can talk to the RepRap.
13. Run host software, telling it the appropriate device name and baud
rate that you figured out.

If you're still having trouble, I could be convinced to do a house call,
if you promise to show me all about the RepRap (which I covet!)

Incidentally, the MAX232 is only a voltage level shifter (from +/-12V or
so, to 0/5V).  It doesn't (or shouldn't) be altering the data at all.
If you suspect that it's not working right, you can always move your
loopback jumper from the dongle to the input pins of the MAX232 (it
should still work); and then move it to the logic-level side of the
MAX232.  It shouldn't make any difference: you should still be able to
see what you type in minicom.
-- 
David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201


From dausmus at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 13:43:17 2009
From: dausmus at gmail.com (Doug Ausmus)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:17 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
	Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>

If the VRs are linear regulators then either way is inefficient. You might
consider chopping the LED current in a PWM fashion to do the limiting. You
already have the FETs, just change the firmware to chop instead of linear
fade. I don't know if the cpu has enough horsepower for that, but worth
looking into. The LEDs will have a current vs. duty-cycle curve that lets
you put much more current through them if the duration is short. Use that
data to design the pwm specs you need to meet to safely operate the LEDs
without the resistors. You may need to add small capacitors to reduce EMI
emissions and smooth out the curent curve a bit.

Just a thought

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Richard Harding
<richard.harding at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have a (physically) small led project utilizing an AVR (not sure which
> one yet, probably an attinyxx) to trigger mosfets to randomly fade 5 colors
> of leds.
> It's powered by small (50-80 mAh) 3.7v li-poly cells in parallel, so I want
> to make the power usage as efficient as possible. I'm wondering if anyone
> could weigh in on whether I should use voltage regulators to supply current
> to each color (Red=2.1v, Green=2.2v, Blue=3.5v, etc.), or just use
> current-limiting resistors (the resistor route would be a lot easier and
> cheaper, but I wonder if the VR route would be more power-efficient).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
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From omega at omegacs.net  Thu Nov 19 14:07:22 2009
From: omega at omegacs.net (Erik Walthinsen)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:07:22 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
 Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B05976A.9050002@omegacs.net>

Doug Ausmus wrote:
> If the VRs are linear regulators then either way is inefficient. You
> might consider chopping the LED current in a PWM fashion to do the
> limiting. You already have the FETs, just change the firmware to chop
> instead of linear fade. I don't know if the cpu has enough horsepower
> for that, but worth looking into. The LEDs will have a current vs.
> duty-cycle curve that lets you put much more current through them if the
> duration is short. Use that data to design the pwm specs you need to
> meet to safely operate the LEDs without the resistors. You may need to
> add small capacitors to reduce EMI emissions and smooth out the curent
> curve a bit.

AFAIK you're still going to need current-limiting resistors at least for
red (2.1V).  Pushing 3.7V into a 2.1V LED is likely to exceed any
duty%/current curve you're going to be able to find.  A 20mA LED can
maybe handle a peak current of 100mA at 10% duty cycle (on the far end
of the curve where you don't want to be anyway).

I have no idea what kind of "short-circuit" current you'll find with
3.7V over a 2.1V LED.  You're going to want to be closer to the 50% duty
cycle, where you can push maybe 50mA for a slight boost over the 100%
20mA.  However you have to watch peak power dissipation, which is
generally 100mW for a 5mm LED.  At 2.1V that's ~47mA.  If your PWM is
fast enough it'll average out and you'll come in well below that, but
too slow and you can burn out the LED.

If you don't drive the FET to saturation, you could theoretically
control the through current with the gate current (Id-s = Ig-s * some
FET-specific multiplier, IIRC), but that starts to get into the tricky bits.

IMO your best bet is to use resistors, since you don't have much voltage
headroom for a linear.  In my LED boxes I use LM317 regulators in
current mode, but that burns off a decent chunk of power, usually ~1.5V.
 Finding an LDO with a dropout of ~150mV depends on your total current,
and you're looking at a dollar per rather than a penny per.  Annoyingly,
Digikey doesn't have a column for Vdropout, so you have to hunt them
down the hard way.

From paul at pjrc.com  Thu Nov 19 14:45:12 2009
From: paul at pjrc.com (Paul Stoffregen)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:45:12 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
 Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B05A048.2000305@pjrc.com>

Driving with PWM is not more efficient if you still use a resistors to 
limit the current.  Even though you're driving for less time, the 
resistor needs to decrease so you have more current to get the same 
brightness.  Power lost to the resistor remains the same.

You would need to use an inductor to limit the current.  That is 
difficult and dangerous, but not impossible.  The PWM carrier frequency 
needs to be very high to avoid huge inductors.  If you ever mistakenly 
leave the pin driving for too long, the current goes as high as if you'd 
used only a wire, which puts a lot of stress on the chip and might 
destroy the pin if you have a strong battery.  A schottky diode is 
necessary to protect the pin from high voltage if the pin goes high-Z 
when any current is flowing, such as a hardware reset or mistakenly 
switching it back to input mode.  Without the diode, those conditions 
will destroy the pin and maybe the whole chip.

The other big problem with PWM drive is you can't put the processor into 
any of the very low power sleep modes.


-Paul



Doug Ausmus wrote:
> If the VRs are linear regulators then either way is inefficient. You might
> consider chopping the LED current in a PWM fashion to do the limiting. You
> already have the FETs, just change the firmware to chop instead of linear
> fade. I don't know if the cpu has enough horsepower for that, but worth
> looking into. The LEDs will have a current vs. duty-cycle curve that lets
> you put much more current through them if the duration is short. Use that
> data to design the pwm specs you need to meet to safely operate the LEDs
> without the resistors. You may need to add small capacitors to reduce EMI
> emissions and smooth out the curent curve a bit.
>
> Just a thought
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Richard Harding
> <richard.harding at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a (physically) small led project utilizing an AVR (not sure which
>> one yet, probably an attinyxx) to trigger mosfets to randomly fade 5 colors
>> of leds.
>> It's powered by small (50-80 mAh) 3.7v li-poly cells in parallel, so I want
>> to make the power usage as efficient as possible. I'm wondering if anyone
>> could weigh in on whether I should use voltage regulators to supply current
>> to each color (Red=2.1v, Green=2.2v, Blue=3.5v, etc.), or just use
>> current-limiting resistors (the resistor route would be a lot easier and
>> cheaper, but I wonder if the VR route would be more power-efficient).
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>
>>     
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From garnere at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 15:03:01 2009
From: garnere at gmail.com (Eric Garner)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:03:01 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
	Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <4B05976A.9050002@omegacs.net>
References: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B05976A.9050002@omegacs.net>
Message-ID: <fbddc0730911191203l7a9a9d79i2599095bd5ea5891@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Erik Walthinsen <omega at omegacs.net> wrote:
> Doug Ausmus wrote:

> and you're looking at a dollar per rather than a penny per. ?Annoyingly,
> Digikey doesn't have a column for Vdropout.

Mouser does

In my mind the biggest argument against using regulators (linear, not
buck/boost or anything fancy) is that your blue LED becomes useless as
soon as the battery voltage drops below what the blue LED's regulator
can handle. you can use lithium polymer down to 3V or so before you
start treading into the territory where you start to damage them
(think about using a cutoff circuit). not with dropping resistors.

From dausmus at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 15:59:12 2009
From: dausmus at gmail.com (Doug Ausmus)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:59:12 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Recommendations on Voltage Regulator vs.
	Current-limiting resistors for LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <4B05A048.2000305@pjrc.com>
References: <655fee110911190933m405a2462jbb054620ee692cc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<307640010911191043q193599adhdb8856d6fad2437b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B05A048.2000305@pjrc.com>
Message-ID: <307640010911191259l126c70cdo77bd3b2ac22643e9@mail.gmail.com>

You may also consider using an off the shelf pwm driver chip for this. they
run around a $1 or so depending on how many outputs, etc. Here is one source
that has them from 1 to 32 outputs and includes color balancing capability
if you need that:

http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/ICs/leddriver.asp

Back to your question- You didn't say specifically which FETs and LEDs you
were using or how many LEDs in series for each color (if you are driving
more than one at a time- I assume you are driving just one of each color
since it sounds like you are just using primary power of 3.7v), so I didn't
provide details on the current curves you would get and other necessary
design details to make this work.

You can use sleep mode by ensuring your drive is first turned off. Small
capacitors in the circuit, combined with the FET Rds(on) can be added as
integrators, but be sure to not use ones that are too large. A fast
switching FET with low Rds(on) and low capacitance can make this very
efficient, but you must match your components to your specific needs to
ensure you are always within safe operating limits for your components.

As an earlier poster already mentioned, an inductive method can also be
used, but there are other complications you must watch our for. And if you
still use resistors to limit current, you still lose.

-Doug


On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Paul Stoffregen <paul at pjrc.com> wrote:

> Driving with PWM is not more efficient if you still use a resistors to
> limit the current.  Even though you're driving for less time, the
> resistor needs to decrease so you have more current to get the same
> brightness.  Power lost to the resistor remains the same.
>
> You would need to use an inductor to limit the current.  That is
> difficult and dangerous, but not impossible.  The PWM carrier frequency
> needs to be very high to avoid huge inductors.  If you ever mistakenly
> leave the pin driving for too long, the current goes as high as if you'd
> used only a wire, which puts a lot of stress on the chip and might
> destroy the pin if you have a strong battery.  A schottky diode is
> necessary to protect the pin from high voltage if the pin goes high-Z
> when any current is flowing, such as a hardware reset or mistakenly
> switching it back to input mode.  Without the diode, those conditions
> will destroy the pin and maybe the whole chip.
>
> The other big problem with PWM drive is you can't put the processor into
> any of the very low power sleep modes.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
> Doug Ausmus wrote:
> > If the VRs are linear regulators then either way is inefficient. You
> might
> > consider chopping the LED current in a PWM fashion to do the limiting.
> You
> > already have the FETs, just change the firmware to chop instead of linear
> > fade. I don't know if the cpu has enough horsepower for that, but worth
> > looking into. The LEDs will have a current vs. duty-cycle curve that lets
> > you put much more current through them if the duration is short. Use that
> > data to design the pwm specs you need to meet to safely operate the LEDs
> > without the resistors. You may need to add small capacitors to reduce EMI
> > emissions and smooth out the curent curve a bit.
> >
> > Just a thought
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Richard Harding
> > <richard.harding at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I have a (physically) small led project utilizing an AVR (not sure which
> >> one yet, probably an attinyxx) to trigger mosfets to randomly fade 5
> colors
> >> of leds.
> >> It's powered by small (50-80 mAh) 3.7v li-poly cells in parallel, so I
> want
> >> to make the power usage as efficient as possible. I'm wondering if
> anyone
> >> could weigh in on whether I should use voltage regulators to supply
> current
> >> to each color (Red=2.1v, Green=2.2v, Blue=3.5v, etc.), or just use
> >> current-limiting resistors (the resistor route would be a lot easier and
> >> cheaper, but I wonder if the VR route would be more power-efficient).
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> >> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> >> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> > dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> > http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
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From dementedchihuahua at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 16:12:31 2009
From: dementedchihuahua at gmail.com (Stanley Ames)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:12:31 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
In-Reply-To: <1258654171.6500.15.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
References: <mailman.1036.1258648861.140.dorkbotpdx-blabber@dorkbot.org>
	<1258654171.6500.15.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <6dbff3170911191312g42caa267wd3ab01f80bf00be7@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, that was very detailed. That's exactly the kind of stuff I was looking
for.

I used 'dmesg | grep tty' to find out that the device is recognized and
where it is at, /dev/ttyUSB0 in my case. I wasn't sure how to trouble-shoot
it to find out if it was getting to the electronics side of things though.
I'll give your methods a try and see if I can verify that I'm getting data
through it. If things go not-so-great, I love to talk about the reprap and
show off my mostly complete machine.

I'm at the bi-weekly dorkbot meetings most of the time. Since there is one
coming up soon, i'll be brining the machine whether or not it works: if it
works, to show it off; if it doesn't work, to plea for help again.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed reply. I'll give it a try when I get home
tonight.

Stan

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:09 AM, dave madden <dorkbot at mersenne.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 11:41 -0500, Stanley Ames
> <dementedchihuahua at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's funny you mentioned pyserial. I started poking around in it and
> > the documentation says I can open port /dev/ttyUSB0 with the serial
> > call...which confuses the hell out of me. I did and tried to use it
> > but I get no results.
> > Even tried just opening /dev/ttyS0 and using that. Still nothing.
>
> Serial problems can be tough to debug, unless you spent the best years
> of your life fiddling around with analog modems and trying to get that
> extra couple of characters per second out of them...
>
> If you don't have a hunch where the problem is, the fastest and easiest
> way to debug is to go down the serial connection, one connector at a
> time, and see if the bits are making it that far.  The easiest way to do
> that is to put in a loopback wire (connect TX to RX) and see if what you
> send is coming back.  You can use minicom on Linux for that purpose.
> Unfortunately, serial is sort of passe' , so I'm not aware of any
> smiley, happy-graphics GUIs for configuring your serial port, or setting
> up Minicom.
>
> So...here's what I'd do:
>
> 0. Unplug serial/usb dongle
> 1. In one window, "tail -f /var/log/messages"
> 2. Plug in serial/usb dongle
> 3. Look for message in "tail" window that says something about
> USB-Serial connector, ttyUSB0, etc.  (It might say "ttyUSB1" or
> "ttyACM0", which is very important to notice!)
> 4. As root, do "minicom -s -o"
> 5. Under serial settings, set the device to "/dev/ttyXXXX" where XXXX is
> the name you noticed in step 3.
> 6. MAKE SURE HARDWARE & SOFTWARE FLOW CONTROL ARE TURNED OFF!
> 7. Exit minicom configuration (but not minicom itself)
> 8. Jumper pins 2 & 3 on the DB9 of your USB dongle
> 9. Type in the minicom window.  If you can see what you type, bits are
> making it from your keyboard, out the dongle, around your jumper, back
> through the dongle, and onto your screen.
> 10. Remove jumper, plug dongle into RepRap.
> 11. Type (by hand) some RepRap command in minicom.  If you don't know a
> command, you might be able to just type something.  All you're looking
> for is a blink or beep or some indication that the RepRap received data.
> 11a.  If the RepRap doesn't respond, it could be a baud rate problem, or
> RX and TX could be switched.  Investigate carefully.
> 12. Repeat 0-11 until you can talk to the RepRap.
> 13. Run host software, telling it the appropriate device name and baud
> rate that you figured out.
>
> If you're still having trouble, I could be convinced to do a house call,
> if you promise to show me all about the RepRap (which I covet!)
>
> Incidentally, the MAX232 is only a voltage level shifter (from +/-12V or
> so, to 0/5V).  It doesn't (or shouldn't) be altering the data at all.
> If you suspect that it's not working right, you can always move your
> loopback jumper from the dongle to the input pins of the MAX232 (it
> should still work); and then move it to the logic-level side of the
> MAX232.  It shouldn't make any difference: you should still be able to
> see what you type in minicom.
> --
> David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
> 1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>



-- 
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling
expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering
a period of consequences.

--Winston Churchill
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From markgross at thegnar.org  Thu Nov 19 18:22:16 2009
From: markgross at thegnar.org (markgross at thegnar.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:22:16 -0700
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] Python with a USB to RS-232 converter
Message-ID: <20091119162216.a4628348e9b88f16fc676b8d88c9fbef.b17aaaf96b.wbe@email04.secureserver.net>

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From james.neal at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 20:04:55 2009
From: james.neal at gmail.com (Laen)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:04:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] PCB Group Order #2 - December 10th, 2009
Message-ID: <96520f4f-af72-4566-a846-5dc6607ab851@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

=== Announcing the second PCB Group Order!  ===
(http://dorkbotpdx.org/blog/laen/pcb_group_order_2)

Now's your chance to get that design you've been working on
professionally fabricated in the USA.

This is open to DorkbotPDX dorks, Make:PDX makers, OpenTechSpace
hackers, and anyone else that wants in on it.  Orders must be received
by December 10th, and will be distributed by December 21st.

=== What you get ===
  - Three 2 layer boards (see design rules below)
  - Soldermask on both sides
  - Silkscreen on the top side only.

=== The Costs ===
$3 square inch for three copies of your board.   So, a 2 square inch
design would cost $6, and you'll get three copies of your board.
Shipping by US Mail will be $2 extra.

If you're part of the workshop (see below!), you'll receive your order
at the December 21st DorkbotPDX general meeting.

=== How to submit your order ===
For now, just email your board designs to "pcb-order at denizen.org" as
either an Eagle .brd or a set of Gerbers.

Include the number of copies you want in multiples of 3.

If you're making Gerbers from Eagle, please use this CAM job:
   http://content.laen.org/pcb/PCBGroupOrder.cam

=== Help! ===
If any of this is confusing, and you'd like help, feel free to drop me
an email.  Also, be sure to check out the DorkbotPDX PCB Workshop.

=== PCB Workshop ===
Don't know how to make a PCB, but still want in?  Come to the
"Designing Circuit Boards for Fabrication" workshop presented by Don,
Dorkbot, and Tempus Dictum Inc.

Details at: http://dorkbotpdx.org/workshop/circuit_design_for_fabrication

Going to the workshop gets you 2 square inches of design space in the
board order.

=== Design Rules ===
(Eagle DRU File: http://content.laen.org/pcb/PCBGroupOrder.dru)

  8 mil trace width
  8 mil spacing
  15 mil clearances from traces to the edge of the board
  20 mil minimum drill size.

Enjoy!
-Laen

From dorkbot at mersenne.com  Sat Nov 21 19:39:26 2009
From: dorkbot at mersenne.com (dave madden)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:39:26 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] [grouporder] Reminder: AllElectronics Order
	Nov 23!
Message-ID: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>

Just a reminder: I'm ordering some stuff from AllElectronics, and would
be willing to add your goodies in to save shipping all around.  I'm
placing the order on Monday, Nov. 23, and will bring the loot to the
Dec. 7 meeting.  Email me direct, because I don't have write access to
the GoogleDocs grouporder spreadsheets.  (Jesse, I have your order.)
-- 
David H. Madden  -  Mersenne Law LLC  -  www.mersenne.com
1500 SW First Ave. / Suite 1170 / Portland, Oregon  97201


From temple11 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 12:46:04 2009
From: temple11 at gmail.com (Brad Pierce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:46:04 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] "Free Day" at Sparkfun
Message-ID: <55792cde0911230946g2d3255f4qbddb9f75d2468bed@mail.gmail.com>

Just saw a notice for "Free Day" at Sparkfun:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=305

Get $100 in free stuff if you're one of the first 1000 orders on Jan 7th
2010!

-Brad
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From jmejia at tffenterprises.com  Wed Nov 25 18:43:33 2009
From: jmejia at tffenterprises.com (Jesse Mejia)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:43:33 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] anyone know where to find supermatched
 transistor pairs?
In-Reply-To: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
References: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
Message-ID: <web-12972298@mail.tffenterprises.com>

So I've discovered that a lot of the projects I'm interested in lately 
require supermatched transistor pairs that seem to be no longer in 
production. I imagine similar results could be achieved by trying to 
hand-match transistors - but instead I'd really like to find a cheap 
source for the real thing. The part numbers I know of are are 2SC3381, 
2SC1583, MAT02, LM394, or SSM2210.

There are probably others that I don't know about. Does anyone happen 
to know of a good source for these... or even have quantity they'd 
like to sell me? I probably really only need 20-25, but I'm having 
trouble finding these at prices anywhere near reasonable. (Best I've 
found is SSM2210's on Newark for $5.10 per at qty 25.)

Thanks!

From ddelmardavis at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 18:48:08 2009
From: ddelmardavis at gmail.com (Donald Delmar Davis)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:48:08 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] anyone know where to find supermatched
	transistor pairs?
In-Reply-To: <web-12972298@mail.tffenterprises.com>
References: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
	<web-12972298@mail.tffenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <1E14B3AD-67C1-4A52-A5EB-A5032C4A212D@gmail.com>

Anything prefixed with solid state music is bound to be rare and/or   
expensive.
I would search on lm394 replacement parts.

On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Jesse Mejia wrote:

> So I've discovered that a lot of the projects I'm interested in lately
> require supermatched transistor pairs that seem to be no longer in
> production. I imagine similar results could be achieved by trying to
> hand-match transistors - but instead I'd really like to find a cheap
> source for the real thing. The part numbers I know of are are 2SC3381,
> 2SC1583, MAT02, LM394, or SSM2210.
>
> There are probably others that I don't know about. Does anyone happen
> to know of a good source for these... or even have quantity they'd
> like to sell me? I probably really only need 20-25, but I'm having
> trouble finding these at prices anywhere near reasonable. (Best I've
> found is SSM2210's on Newark for $5.10 per at qty 25.)
>
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From jmejia at tffenterprises.com  Wed Nov 25 20:23:36 2009
From: jmejia at tffenterprises.com (Jesse Mejia)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:23:36 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] anyone know where to find
 supermatched	transistor pairs?
In-Reply-To: <1E14B3AD-67C1-4A52-A5EB-A5032C4A212D@gmail.com>
References: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
	<web-12972298@mail.tffenterprises.com>
	<1E14B3AD-67C1-4A52-A5EB-A5032C4A212D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-12972367@mail.tffenterprises.com>

It's actually an analog devices chip... not the SSM you're thinking 
of. But yeah - I've looked a bit for lm394 replacements - haven't had 
a lot of luck yet. The AD ssm2210 was in production until very 
recently. I think the same is true of the lm394... oh well.


On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:48:08 -0800
  Donald Delmar Davis <ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anything prefixed with solid state music is bound to be rare and/or 
>  
> expensive.
> I would search on lm394 replacement parts.
> 
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Jesse Mejia wrote:
> 
>> So I've discovered that a lot of the projects I'm interested in 
>>lately
>> require supermatched transistor pairs that seem to be no longer in
>> production. I imagine similar results could be achieved by trying to
>> hand-match transistors - but instead I'd really like to find a cheap
>> source for the real thing. The part numbers I know of are are 
>>2SC3381,
>> 2SC1583, MAT02, LM394, or SSM2210.
>>
>> There are probably others that I don't know about. Does anyone 
>>happen
>> to know of a good source for these... or even have quantity they'd
>> like to sell me? I probably really only need 20-25, but I'm having
>> trouble finding these at prices anywhere near reasonable. (Best I've
>> found is SSM2210's on Newark for $5.10 per at qty 25.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber


From jboone at earfeast.com  Wed Nov 25 20:37:04 2009
From: jboone at earfeast.com (Jared Boone)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:37:04 -0800
Subject: [dorkbotpdx-blabber] anyone know where to find
	supermatched	transistor pairs?
In-Reply-To: <web-12972367@mail.tffenterprises.com>
References: <1258850366.5169.90.camel@voodoo.mersenne.com>
	<web-12972298@mail.tffenterprises.com>
	<1E14B3AD-67C1-4A52-A5EB-A5032C4A212D@gmail.com>
	<web-12972367@mail.tffenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <E50CA656-F304-4E9C-84D9-E8430AAEE94A@earfeast.com>

Analog bought SSM/PMI back in the 90s. I have a databook, if that's at  
all useful. I have some SSM chips laying around, but I think only  
their line driver and VCA chips. I don't have any of the silicon  
you're looking for.

Matched pairs do have lots of value outside of audio, so I bet there's  
substitutions to be had. I'll look at my databook and see what I can  
find that's comparable.

         - Jared

On Nov 25, 2009, at 17:23, Jesse Mejia <jmejia at tffenterprises.com>  
wrote:

> It's actually an analog devices chip... not the SSM you're thinking
> of. But yeah - I've looked a bit for lm394 replacements - haven't had
> a lot of luck yet. The AD ssm2210 was in production until very
> recently. I think the same is true of the lm394... oh well.
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:48:08 -0800
>  Donald Delmar Davis <ddelmardavis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anything prefixed with solid state music is bound to be rare and/or
>>
>> expensive.
>> I would search on lm394 replacement parts.
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Jesse Mejia wrote:
>>
>>> So I've discovered that a lot of the projects I'm interested in
>>> lately
>>> require supermatched transistor pairs that seem to be no longer in
>>> production. I imagine similar results could be achieved by trying to
>>> hand-match transistors - but instead I'd really like to find a cheap
>>> source for the real thing. The part numbers I know of are are
>>> 2SC3381,
>>> 2SC1583, MAT02, LM394, or SSM2210.
>>>
>>> There are probably others that I don't know about. Does anyone
>>> happen
>>> to know of a good source for these... or even have quantity they'd
>>> like to sell me? I probably really only need 20-25, but I'm having
>>> trouble finding these at prices anywhere near reasonable. (Best I've
>>> found is SSM2210's on Newark for $5.10 per at qty 25.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
>> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber
>
> _______________________________________________
> dorkbotpdx-blabber mailing list
> dorkbotpdx-blabber at dorkbot.org
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/dorkbotpdx-blabber