From atte.jensen at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 03:42:01 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Fri Dec 1 03:42:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices Message-ID: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> Hi Reading the thread(s) on realtime-kernels, I decided to have another go at putting my sound card (IBM T41 laptop) on it's own IRQ. Through luck, some black BIOS-magic and help from linux thinkpad mailing list I managed to move the sound card, PC-card, modem and SMBus controller(whatever that is) to their own IRQ. I'm still trying to get *only* the sound card's IRQ moved. My question is: Since I don't use the pc-card or the modem, and provided that SMBus is something I don't use, will having these extra stuff on the same IRQ as the sound card be a problem? Will it make any difference if I don't load the kernel modules for the pc card/modem thereby disabling them? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk Fri Dec 1 03:47:51 2006 From: J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk (J M Needham) Date: Fri Dec 1 03:48:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Realtiem kernel. In-Reply-To: <20061129234018.1e1d6dca@beta.home> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Oliver Bengs wrote: > J M Needham schrieb: > > > I found > > http://repos.opensuse.org/home:/appleonkel/SUSE_Linux_10.1/i586/kernel-rt-default-2.6.18-8.5.i586.rpm > > This is the testing version, the known to work you can download from > ftp://ftp-1.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/jacklab/SUSE-10.1/RPMS/i586 > > What is the error? I don't know. [basic newbie face] there's lots and lots of seemingly random characters and I don't know how to dump the output to a file, or if it is dumped to which file it is. (if that makes any sense). > > on the internet while looking for info on how to patch a > > realtime kernel in suse 10.1. I'm having some problems with it (it > > didn't boot; I used rpm -i ... to install it) and so if anyone has any > > There is already a guide HowTo install: > http://jacklab.net/userwiki/index.php/Nerd_3_Steps_to_JAD#Install_kernel_and_software I found this but the problem I had was that the wget calls wget http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-0.5.15lorg3-17.2.i586.rpm wget http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-libs-0.5.15lorg3-17.2.i586.rpm returned 404's. Does anyone know what's going on with the Jack repository as I can't add it as a source. > > experience with this or advice for SUSE 10.1 (I'm leaving suse soon > > anyway -- heading to DeMuDi) then I'd appreciate. I understand that > > patching a kernel for suse 10.1 with a realtime patch is non-trivial. > > Yeah > > > Any help appreciated. > > Jonty > > > Olli > From v2 at iki.fi Fri Dec 1 03:48:14 2006 From: v2 at iki.fi (Sampo Savolainen) Date: Fri Dec 1 03:51:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] hdsploader / changing soundcards Message-ID: <1164962894.456fec4e8d3b3@www1.helsinki.fi> Quoting Georg Holzmann : > So my question, is there also a way to get hdsploader working without > plugging out/in the card ? (and without a reboot) Sounds like you have the PCMCIA card, right? I use "sudo pccardctl eject" "sudo pccardctl insert" to reinsert the card. There is no need to physically remove the card in between the commands. So it's essentially the same as reloading the driver. Sampo From v2 at iki.fi Fri Dec 1 04:17:09 2006 From: v2 at iki.fi (Sampo Savolainen) Date: Fri Dec 1 04:20:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Making audio CDs - a simple way Message-ID: <1164964629.456ff3159d1b1@www1.helsinki.fi> Quoting lanas : > I guess you could call me too lazy to bother with the installation of > a total of 6 packages just to be able to drag&drop files to be > burned on CD ! ;-) And I think I am, too. Come on, package dependencies is no meter for ease of use. "apt-get install serpentine" will install the application. And even that isn't necessary as it is installed by default for any sane distro (for example Ubuntu). Sampo From lau at ballen.fastmail.fm Fri Dec 1 05:52:07 2006 From: lau at ballen.fastmail.fm (Bill Allen) Date: Fri Dec 1 05:52:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> >> >> I didn't mention but the rtirq script only makes sense on a >> realtime-preempt enabled kernel (aka ingo's patch), and you also need >> `chrt` and `pidof` system utilities around; and/or schedutils installed, >> don't even know if this is the name of the providing package in debian. > > I read that this patch has been adopted into the kernel. The rest of > what you're saying... I don't think I have time, maybe I will try > later. Thanks anyway. At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just reading this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting into trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set aside a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with all the real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. Yes, you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my family system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do music I boot into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to make a general purpose distro into a music enabled one. Bill From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Fri Dec 1 06:25:30 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Fri Dec 1 06:18:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <4570112A.5050105@woh.rr.com> Bill Allen wrote: > At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just > reading this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting > into trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set > aside a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with > all the real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. > Yes, you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my > family system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do > music I boot into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to > make a general purpose distro into a music enabled one. Hear the man. I started writing a similar reply yesterday, but Bill's said it better here. Given the availability of multimedia-optimized distros I just don't see the point of putting myself through what the distro maintainers have already been through and mastered. Maybe it's an age thing, at mine I get someone else to do the heavy lifting. :) Really, I work with Linux audio software to make music. I lost interest in mucking about with kernel configurations long ago. Yes, I'm glad I know how to do some of that stuff by myself, but I no longer consider it a necessary part of the process. I agree with Bill, use 64Studio, PlanetCCRMA, or some other optimized distro and save yourself time and energy. Best, dp From yves at jazzcomputer.org Fri Dec 1 06:37:27 2006 From: yves at jazzcomputer.org (Yves Potin) Date: Fri Dec 1 06:37:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Fst + Crystal VST Message-ID: <20061201113727.GH7132@localhost> Hello. There seems to be a persistant issue with Crystal VST and Fst. First, this appears at the launch of fst (with or without -r, with or without wineserver running) : cannot lock down memory for RT thread (Ne peut allouer de la memoire) The synth first seems to work perfectly, with audio and MIDI in jack. Then it quickly segfaults when using the GUI or just when playing some notes on vkeybd, at a moment or another, with this error message : The program 'fst' received an X Window System error. This probably reflects a bug in the program. The error was 'RenderBadPicture (invalid Picture parameter)'. (Details: serial 24972 error_code 191 request_code 156 minor_code 7) (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously; that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it. To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.) ? I have recompiled wine with or without gif, glut, opengl, gif, lcms, dbus and hal, and I have tried with or with DRI activated in xorg (free driver, ATI video card, dual monitor setup). Always the same. There is a recent bug report on the wine bugtracker here : http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6673 and someone asked the same question sometime ago on this mailing list. But on the other hand there are many web sites where people report that this synth works perfectly with wine / fst. - Would someone have some kind of workaround ? - Would there be someone who uses Crstal vst sucessfully and could tell about his setup, especially his video card and drivers, xorg / xfree version, if he uses dual monitors and if DRI is activated ? - Did someone contact the author of Crystal to ask him about a native Linux version and / or a free version of his software's source code ? I could do it, but maybe there's a history about that I'm not aware of... Thanks for any advice or help, Y. From lars.luthman at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 06:52:00 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Fri Dec 1 06:52:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Fst + Crystal VST In-Reply-To: <20061201113727.GH7132@localhost> References: <20061201113727.GH7132@localhost> Message-ID: <1164973920.11825.1.camel@c213-100-20-30.swipnet.se> On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 12:37 +0100, Yves Potin wrote: > - Did someone contact the author of Crystal to ask him about a > native Linux version and / or a free version of his software's source > code ? I could do it, but maybe there's a history about that I'm not aware > of... I asked him once if he was interested in releasing the source under a free license so we could port it to Linux. He wasn't. -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061201/b2382e26/attachment-0001.bin From appleonkel at flashgrafik.de Fri Dec 1 07:46:59 2006 From: appleonkel at flashgrafik.de (Oliver Bengs) Date: Fri Dec 1 07:39:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Realtiem kernel. In-Reply-To: References: <20061129234018.1e1d6dca@beta.home> Message-ID: <20061201134659.25e765fe@beta.home> J M Needham schrieb: > > I found this but the problem I had was that the wget calls > > wget > http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-0.5.15lorg3-17.2.i586.rpm > wget > http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-libs-0.5.15lorg3-17.2.i586.rpm > > returned 404's. Does anyone know what's going on with the Jack > repository as I can't add it as a source. > The version has changed: wget http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-0.5.15lorg3.2-12.2.i586.rpm and wget http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/home:/rbos/SL-10.1_i586/i586/apt-libs-0.5.15lorg3.2-12.2.i586.rpm but since 10.1 I prefer to use smart, it is on the Installation CD/DVD. You can install it with Yast. > > > experience with this or advice for SUSE 10.1 (I'm leaving suse > > > soon anyway -- heading to DeMuDi) then I'd appreciate. I > > > understand that patching a kernel for suse 10.1 with a realtime > > > patch is non-trivial. > > > > Yeah > > > > > Any help appreciated. > > > Jonty > > > > > Olli > > > From perodog at gmx.net Fri Dec 1 08:13:53 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Fri Dec 1 08:13:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] xjadeo-0.4.0-rc1 In-Reply-To: <456F6498.4060704@gareus.org> References: <456F6498.4060704@gareus.org> Message-ID: <45702A91.5000900@gmx.net> Robin Gareus wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > xjadeo-0.4.0-rc1 - X Jack Video Monitor > > http://xjadeo.sourceforge.net/ > > Xjadeo is a simple movie player that synchronizes video to an external > time source such as jack transport. It is intended to aid sound > composition to a video clip. > > This is a rewrite of the previous 0.1 release and a > conclusion of the ongoing development during the last year. > > New Features include > * displays: Xv, x11+imlib2 > * fullscreen and letterbox video > * improved video file reading via ffmpeg > * on screen display > * configuration file > * LASH - session management > * optional GUI - qjadeo > * remote control interface > * Midi Time Clock quarterframe sync > * documentation > * OSX support (experimental) > > > Release Notes: > > Mixing ffmepg and Xv may produce unexpected effects on some > architectures. Please report them as those are the main reason for this > release-candidate: http://xjadeo.sourceforge.net/doc/ar01s03.html#problems > > Although there are many new Features, only the on-screen-display might > have an impact on the perfomance of xjadeo. since 0.3.13 xjadeo > uses gettimeofday(3) for it's internal timekeeping. - it appears that > using clock(3) was a major-bug in the original xjadeo code, though not > harmful. > > The default xjadeo configuration is to run with a low profile: > Additional Features need to be enabled explicitly (LASH is an > exception). Performance highly depends on the Codec and geometry of the > video file: the -K, -k arguments allow to seek many file formats - but > is intended only for preview! > http://xjadeo.sourceforge.net/doc/ar01s03.html#video_formats > > There are open ends in osX support: This version includes workarounds > for use with ffmpeg on PPC. , but they might not work for all versions > of ffmpeg. - Are you an intel-mac user who succeeded to run 'make test' > in the ffmpeg svn src? - give us a wink :) > > http://packman.links2linux.org/package/xjadeo/ provides SuSE-RPMs for > i586 and also for x64-64bit. many thanks! We are pleasantly surprised, > since we expected serious video-Codec and xjadeo-Xv problems for 64 bit > architecture. We have not tested any of the RPMs ourselves. - imlib > display + mjpeg codec should work though. > > A beta-devel debian package can be built from source and the > xjadeo.spec.in is intended for FC4 RPMs. > > robin /at/ gareus /dot/ org > luisgarrido /at/ users /dot/ sourceforge /dot/ net > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFFb2SXeVUk8U+VK0IRAksdAJ9UzrecVjOOQuwWtCWfmh9EjggflACgga56 > yTXu6ToamWx+UmNw+yyl5Dg= > =HwID > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > hi, thanks for this, compiles very fine and the lash support is really a good thing!! cheers, doc From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 10:30:02 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Fri Dec 1 10:30:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <4570112A.5050105@woh.rr.com> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> <4570112A.5050105@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <8200bab70612010730u6d250ecex251541d33127e68f@mail.gmail.com> On 12/1/06, Dave Phillips wrote: > Bill Allen wrote: > > > At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just > > reading this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting > > into trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set > > aside a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with > > all the real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. > > Yes, you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my > > family system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do > > music I boot into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to > > make a general purpose distro into a music enabled one. > > Hear the man. I started writing a similar reply yesterday, but Bill's > said it better here. Given the availability of multimedia-optimized > distros I just don't see the point of putting myself through what the > distro maintainers have already been through and mastered. Maybe it's an > age thing, at mine I get someone else to do the heavy lifting. :) > > Really, I work with Linux audio software to make music. I lost interest > in mucking about with kernel configurations long ago. Yes, I'm glad I > know how to do some of that stuff by myself, but I no longer consider it > a necessary part of the process. I agree with Bill, use 64Studio, > PlanetCCRMA, or some other optimized distro and save yourself time and > energy. All right, I'll give it a try, in two weeks. I'll check out both of those, though I am really interested in getting Debian to work for audio, and for the wireless card which is still a problem. For now, everything I need and the programs I'm used to are still working in Windows. It pains me, but I don't have any choice. From georg.holzmann at student.kug.ac.at Fri Dec 1 10:55:32 2006 From: georg.holzmann at student.kug.ac.at (Georg Holzmann) Date: Fri Dec 1 10:55:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] hdsploader / changing soundcards In-Reply-To: <1164962894.456fec4e8d3b3@www1.helsinki.fi> References: <1164962894.456fec4e8d3b3@www1.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <45705074.4010803@student.kug.ac.at> Hallo! > Sounds like you have the PCMCIA card, right? yes ... > I use "sudo pccardctl eject" "sudo pccardctl insert" to reinsert the card. > There is no need to physically remove the card in between the commands. So > it's essentially the same as reloading the driver. Thanks - I will try this ! LG Georg From christhemonkey at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 11:40:26 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Fri Dec 1 11:40:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> References: <87y7qymy3o.fsf@esben-stien.name> <87zmacgxg5.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128011637.GD27008@replic.net> <87ejrnhkzr.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> Message-ID: <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: > Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > > On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: > >> Nox exactly audio related but to me it is... > >> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 > > If it works, I'll be the happiest man in the world... > > What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old > proprietary license? > > Thanks, > Steve > They spelt ubuntu wrong... And it looks a lot like a binary only license. Chris From cesare at poeticstudios.com Fri Dec 1 15:28:52 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Fri Dec 1 14:35:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> References: <87y7qymy3o.fsf@esben-stien.name> <87zmacgxg5.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128011637.GD27008@replic.net> <87ejrnhkzr.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> chris beagles wrote: > On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: >> Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> > On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: >> >> Nox exactly audio related but to me it is... >> >> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 >> > If it works, I'll be the happiest man in the world... >> >> What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old >> proprietary license? >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> > > They spelt ubuntu wrong... > And it looks a lot like a binary only license. Is there any big manufacturer who ever released open source code? c. > > Chris > > -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From st at tobiah.org Fri Dec 1 14:39:48 2006 From: st at tobiah.org (st) Date: Fri Dec 1 14:45:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45708504.2020101@tobiah.org> I found this. It looks like it might be of interest to you. http://cae.best.vwh.net/irqtune/ Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Hi > > Reading the thread(s) on realtime-kernels, I decided to have another go > at putting my sound card (IBM T41 laptop) on it's own IRQ. Through luck, > some black BIOS-magic and help from linux thinkpad mailing list I > managed to move the sound card, PC-card, modem and SMBus > controller(whatever that is) to their own IRQ. I'm still trying to get > *only* the sound card's IRQ moved. > > My question is: Since I don't use the pc-card or the modem, and provided > that SMBus is something I don't use, will having these extra stuff on > the same IRQ as the sound card be a problem? Will it make any difference > if I don't load the kernel modules for the pc card/modem thereby > disabling them? > From fons.adriaensen at skynet.be Fri Dec 1 15:02:12 2006 From: fons.adriaensen at skynet.be (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri Dec 1 14:59:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Website moving - please update your links Message-ID: <20061201200212.GA6007@linux-1.site> Hello all, Since I'm preparing to move abroad, I've transferred my website to a host that's independent of my local ISP. The new site is www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio 'Kokkini Zita' means 'red zeta' - the Greek letter, and all the 'i' are pronounced as English 'ee', not 'y'. It's also my 'project name' at the Linux Audio Consortium. In time you will also see the red zeta appear in the GUI of any new software. The main page has been restyled a bit, and the rest will follow as I have time. Please let me know if you have any problems with the new layout and colors. The old site will remain on-line for some months, but any new stuff and updates will go to the new one only. My new e-mail address will be fons-at-kokkinizita.net, but please don't use that until you see it appear on the lists. Enjoy ! -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From rlrevell at joe-job.com Fri Dec 1 15:05:56 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:05:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <45708504.2020101@tobiah.org> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> <45708504.2020101@tobiah.org> Message-ID: <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 11:39 -0800, st wrote: > I found this. It looks like it might be > of interest to you. > > http://cae.best.vwh.net/irqtune/ > Useless with -rt kernel which already lets you prioritize interrupts by setting the RT priority of the handler. IRQ sharing is hard wired in a laptop - it's not going to be possible for you to get the soundcard on its own IRQ. It will help if you don't load drivers for other devices sharing that IRQ though. Anyway having your soundcard on a non-shared IRQ is overrated - as long as you aren't sharing it with a "heavy" device like a disk controller or ethernet adapter. If you find it impossible to eliminate xruns on a laptop there's a good chance that SMI is the problem and you must use a higher latency. Lee > > Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > > Hi > > > > Reading the thread(s) on realtime-kernels, I decided to have another go > > at putting my sound card (IBM T41 laptop) on it's own IRQ. Through luck, > > some black BIOS-magic and help from linux thinkpad mailing list I > > managed to move the sound card, PC-card, modem and SMBus > > controller(whatever that is) to their own IRQ. I'm still trying to get > > *only* the sound card's IRQ moved. > > > > My question is: Since I don't use the pc-card or the modem, and provided > > that SMBus is something I don't use, will having these extra stuff on > > the same IRQ as the sound card be a problem? Will it make any difference > > if I don't load the kernel modules for the pc card/modem thereby > > disabling them? > > > > From atte.jensen at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 15:53:26 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:53:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> <45708504.2020101@tobiah.org> <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> Lee Revell wrote: > IRQ sharing is hard wired in a laptop - it's not going to be possible > for you to get the soundcard on its own IRQ. It will help if you > don't load drivers for other devices sharing that IRQ though. Well, at least I found out how move interrupts of "groups" of hardware in the BIOS. Before the sound card was using the same interrupts as the usb controller, the graphics card and wlan. After doing this + setting the priority of the audiocards (+ unused pc cards + unused modem + SMBus controller (still not sure what that is), these share "group") I found that the source of all my trouble was powernowd. I removed that (actually I don't feel any difference, maybe battery will last longer) and things work *extremely much* better. For instance I can run jack forever (while going wild on opening programs, switching desktops and anything I can think of) without any xruns at 11ms latency. The latest song I'm working on has 9 vocal tracks with fx in ardour + seq24 driving specimen and 9 (!) parts in zynaddsubfx with quite a busy arrangement. It runs smooth as butter and I can do what-ever else I do on the laptop! Actually I can go even lower in latency without any xruns, but this song (that I've been using as a test) will glitch from time to time, I suspect its zynaddsubfx that can't keep up. No xruns, just a single click every minute or so from (I suspect) zynaddsubfx. > Anyway having your soundcard on a non-shared IRQ is overrated - as > long as you aren't sharing it with a "heavy" device like a disk > controller or ethernet adapter. If you find it impossible to > eliminate xruns on a laptop there's a good chance that SMI is the > problem and you must use a higher latency. I was quite surprised that the performance is (as far as I can tell) the same whether or not I put the audio card on an interrupt together with the afore mentioned unused devices + set it's priority. Actually I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts on the following: 1) Am I right in doing this: chrt -f -p 90 `pidof "IRQ 11"` chrt -f -p 85 `pidof "IRQ 8"` provided my soundcard (+ idle stuff) is on IRQ 11 and rtc is on IRQ 8? 2) If the above is correct (or at least better than nothing) shouldn't I be getting at least *some* performance difference? BTW: it's on an IBM T41 1.6Ghz Pentium M w 1G ram, with debian/unstable, mingo-patched 2.6.18-rt7 kernel and openbox. -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk Fri Dec 1 18:15:27 2006 From: lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk (Steve Fosdick) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:17:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour Message-ID: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> Hi, I'd like to be able to play a MIDI file with fluidsynth and have ardour record the output to I can mix other tracks into it. The two approaches I could think of were: 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. I haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output driver that writes to a file. 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. This is also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the connection until fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to start fluidsynth and give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the file immediately so by the time I've made the connections and hit "record" it is half way through. Does anyone please have ideas how I can do this? Steve. From philicorda at ntlworld.com Fri Dec 1 18:25:54 2006 From: philicorda at ntlworld.com (philicorda) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:27:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: [ANN] xjadeo-0.4.0-rc1 In-Reply-To: <20061201195958.6C60947B8B9D@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061201195958.6C60947B8B9D@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <1165015554.7443.11.camel@philicorda-desktop> > Robin Gareus wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > xjadeo-0.4.0-rc1 - X Jack Video Monitor > > > > http://xjadeo.sourceforge.net/ > > > > Xjadeo is a simple movie player that synchronizes video to an external > > time source such as jack transport. It is intended to aid sound > > composition to a video clip. > > > > This is a rewrite of the previous 0.1 release and a > > conclusion of the ongoing development during the last year. > > > > New Features include > > * displays: Xv, x11+imlib2 > > * fullscreen and letterbox video > > * improved video file reading via ffmpeg > > * on screen display > > * configuration file > > * LASH - session management > > * optional GUI - qjadeo > > * remote control interface > > * Midi Time Clock quarterframe sync > > * documentation > > * OSX support (experimental) Thank you. This is immensely useful! Works great here with Ardour2 and XV video. From lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk Fri Dec 1 18:24:55 2006 From: lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk (Steve Fosdick) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:28:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Pre-Amp hum (related to jack, somehow) In-Reply-To: <3c808a150611280836y2787f41fvb5ebbd29cfd64c08@mail.gmail.com> References: <3c808a150611280836y2787f41fvb5ebbd29cfd64c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061201232455.f2a10fe9.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:36:27 +0100 "Marc-Olivier Barre" wrote: > I also ran into some problem with my laptop. Those things are known to emit > a lot of EM waves which easily get caught by cables transmitting asymmetric > signals. When I switched all my connections between my sound card (RME) and > my pre-amp (TL-Audio) to symmetric XLR, the hum disappeared. I had a hum problem with a Tascam US-122. I wanted to record a singer and guitar that had an integrated pickup. The singer's mic was a condenser and so needed phantom power so I had phantom power on, but I also had the guitar pickup plugged into the other channel. If I turned phantom power off the hum went away. I haven't had the problem with balanaced line either and in the end we just went for a second mic on the guitar which avoided the hum. Steve. From mista.tapas at gmx.net Fri Dec 1 18:35:21 2006 From: mista.tapas at gmx.net (Florian Schmidt) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:34:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200612020035.21330.mista.tapas@gmx.net> On Friday 01 December 2006 21:53, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > > 1) Am I right in doing this: > chrt -f -p 90 `pidof "IRQ 11"` > chrt -f -p 85 `pidof "IRQ 8"` > provided my soundcard (+ idle stuff) is on IRQ 11 and rtc is on IRQ 8? > > 2) If the above is correct (or at least better than nothing) shouldn't I > be getting at least *some* performance difference? You should probably also set jackd to use a prio of around 70 or so [assuming the other irq handlers are left to their defaults in the 50s range].. Otherwise these other irq handlers might steal the cpu from jackd. Flo -- Palimm Palimm! http://tapas.affenbande.org From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 1 18:41:20 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:44:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linuxaudio.org site problems Message-ID: <008201c715a2$347c8710$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Just to let everyone know, we are experiencing some problems with the Linuxaudio.org server. As a result, we will have a downtime over the weekend and possibly a good portion of Monday. My sincere apologies if this unfortunate development has caused you any inconvenience. Your patience and understanding in this matter is most appreciated! Should you happen to have any additional questions and/or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me. Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology, CCTAD, and CHCI Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-1137 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico@vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic/ From atte.jensen at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 18:52:51 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Fri Dec 1 18:53:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <200612020035.21330.mista.tapas@gmx.net> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> <200612020035.21330.mista.tapas@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4570C053.5010209@gmail.com> Florian Schmidt wrote: > You should probably also set jackd to use a prio of around 70 or so [assuming > the other irq handlers are left to their defaults in the 50s range].. I'm running jackd at priority 71, seq24 at 86, specimen, zynaddsubfx and ardour at 70... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From cesare at poeticstudios.com Fri Dec 1 21:28:22 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Fri Dec 1 20:30:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <4570E4C6.4090706@poeticstudios.com> Steve Fosdick wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to be able to play a MIDI file with fluidsynth and have ardour record the output to I can mix other tracks into it. The two approaches I could think of were: > > 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. I haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output driver that writes to a file. > > 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. This is also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the connection until fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to start fluidsynth and give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the file immediately so by the time I've made the connections and hit "record" it is half way through. > > Does anyone please have ideas how I can do this? > > Steve. > > > You have to use a program that sync with jack transport. Both Rosegarden and Muse can do this, and both come with fluidsynth. c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From songshop at bizmedia.com.au Fri Dec 1 20:59:56 2006 From: songshop at bizmedia.com.au (Geoff Beasley) Date: Fri Dec 1 22:00:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <20061202013008.6A50847D1AAC@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061202013008.6A50847D1AAC@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612021259.57317.songshop@bizmedia.com.au> can't find them anywhere g. From lau at ballen.fastmail.fm Fri Dec 1 22:37:21 2006 From: lau at ballen.fastmail.fm (Bill Allen) Date: Fri Dec 1 22:37:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612010730u6d250ecex251541d33127e68f@mail.gmail.com> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> <4570112A.5050105@woh.rr.com> <8200bab70612010730u6d250ecex251541d33127e68f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4570F4F1.9040803@ballen.fastmail.fm> Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > On 12/1/06, Dave Phillips wrote: >> Bill Allen wrote: >> >> > At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just >> > reading this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting >> > into trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set >> > aside a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with >> > all the real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. >> > Yes, you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my >> > family system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do >> > music I boot into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to >> > make a general purpose distro into a music enabled one. >> >> Hear the man. I started writing a similar reply yesterday, but Bill's >> said it better here. Given the availability of multimedia-optimized >> distros I just don't see the point of putting myself through what the >> distro maintainers have already been through and mastered. Maybe it's an >> age thing, at mine I get someone else to do the heavy lifting. :) >> >> Really, I work with Linux audio software to make music. I lost interest >> in mucking about with kernel configurations long ago. Yes, I'm glad I >> know how to do some of that stuff by myself, but I no longer consider it >> a necessary part of the process. I agree with Bill, use 64Studio, >> PlanetCCRMA, or some other optimized distro and save yourself time and >> energy. > > All right, I'll give it a try, in two weeks. I'll check out both of > those, though I am really interested in getting Debian to work for > audio, and for the wireless card which is still a problem. For now, > everything I need and the programs I'm used to are still working in > Windows. It pains me, but I don't have any choice. Studio64 is debian. It is a debian based distro that has been optimized for audio. In other words, it is everything that you would come up with, if you spent the time to produce a debian based audio system. PlanetCCRMA is the same thing based on fedora. Dave and I are both old enough to just want to do the music part. We're happy to let others do the fun work of making it all work. Thanks Dan and Free and Fernando. Bill From chris at mccormick.cx Fri Dec 1 22:59:03 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Fri Dec 1 23:15:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061128011637.GD27008@replic.net> <87ejrnhkzr.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 08:28:52PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > chris beagles wrote: > >On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: > >>Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > >>> On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: > >>>> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 > >>What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old > >>proprietary license? > >And it looks a lot like a binary only license. > Is there any big manufacturer who ever released open source code? IBM! Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From a at gaydenko.com Fri Dec 1 23:22:16 2006 From: a at gaydenko.com (Andrew Gaydenko) Date: Fri Dec 1 23:21:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] corrected by cdparanoia Message-ID: <200612020722.16455@goldspace.net> There is "Legend of characters" for cdparanoia: http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html Does word "corrected" mean bit-to-bit-accurate result? From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 00:13:42 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 00:14:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <200612021259.57317.songshop@bizmedia.com.au> Message-ID: <008701c715d0$a2c52b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> See: http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/consortium/2006-November/000781.html BTW, anyone has any idea why the listserv is not forwarding posts to its membership, yet it still adds new posts to the archive without any problems? I checked the admin settings for the listserv and there is nothing that would suggest any problems. Alas, I do not have ssh access to the listserv server so I am unable to dig though the logs... Very bizarre week to say the least. First the listserv breaks, and now the linuxaudio.org server is experiencing problems as well... Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- > user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Beasley > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:00 PM > To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu > Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? > > can't find them anywhere > > g. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sat Dec 2 01:01:50 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat Dec 2 01:01:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <008701c715d0$a2c52b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <008701c715d0$a2c52b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457116CE.9070805@hawaii.rr.com> I got this via the list ... so, sorry, maybe it just doesn't like your email address right now? ;-) Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > See: > > http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/consortium/2006-November/000781.html > > BTW, anyone has any idea why the listserv is not forwarding posts to its > membership, yet it still adds new posts to the archive without any problems? > I checked the admin settings for the listserv and there is nothing that > would suggest any problems. Alas, I do not have ssh access to the listserv > server so I am unable to dig though the logs... > > Very bizarre week to say the least. First the listserv breaks, and now the > linuxaudio.org server is experiencing problems as well... > > Ico > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- >> user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Beasley >> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:00 PM >> To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu >> Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? >> >> can't find them anywhere >> >> g. > -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sat Dec 2 01:06:39 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat Dec 2 01:06:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <457117EF.60609@hawaii.rr.com> Steve Fosdick wrote: > I'd like to be able to play a MIDI file with fluidsynth and have ardour record the output to I can mix other tracks into it. The two approaches I could think of were: > > 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. I haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output driver that writes to a file. Check out jack_capture. It doesn't work on my system, but I don't think I have my midi stuff set up properly, anyway. > 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. This is also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the connection until fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to start fluidsynth and give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the file immediately so by the time I've made the connections and hit "record" it is half way through. Hmmm, can't you set up your connections in jack before you feed the midi to fluidsynth to play it? -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From wagi at monom.org Sat Dec 2 04:31:41 2006 From: wagi at monom.org (Daniel Wagner) Date: Sat Dec 2 04:28:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Fwd: freebob problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457147FD.9030802@monom.org> > FreeBoB ERR: FREEBOB: Error creating virtual device > cannot load driver module freebob > Segmentation fault Check the permission on /dev/raw1394 and if all needed modules are loaded. daniel From rob at curates-egg.org Sat Dec 2 05:14:18 2006 From: rob at curates-egg.org (rob) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:14:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6712.1000802@ballen.fastmail.fm> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> Message-ID: <457151FA.3030408@curates-egg.org> Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > If you're talking about rtirq, you can find the last known one here: > > http://www.rncbc.org/jack/rtirq-20060819.tar.gz Not trying to be too picky here - but the spec file says license is GPL, but script header says all rights reserved.... Thanks for the script. R From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 05:24:50 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:25:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <457116CE.9070805@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <000401c715fc$19b80260$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > I got this via the list ... so, sorry, maybe it just doesn't like your > email address right now? ;-) LAU/LAD lists are fine. It is the consortium one that is causing weird problems. Ico > > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > See: > > > > http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/consortium/2006-November/000781.html > > > > BTW, anyone has any idea why the listserv is not forwarding posts to its > > membership, yet it still adds new posts to the archive without any > problems? > > I checked the admin settings for the listserv and there is nothing that > > would suggest any problems. Alas, I do not have ssh access to the > listserv > > server so I am unable to dig though the logs... > > > > Very bizarre week to say the least. First the listserv breaks, and now > the > > linuxaudio.org server is experiencing problems as well... > > > > Ico > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- > >> user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Beasley > >> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:00 PM > >> To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu > >> Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? > >> > >> can't find them anywhere > >> > >> g. > > > > > -- > David > gnome@hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sat Dec 2 05:39:10 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:39:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061202013008.6A50847D1AAC@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061202013008.6A50847D1AAC@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Steve Fosdick: > > Hi, > > I'd like to be able to play a MIDI file with fluidsynth and have ardour record the output to I can mix other tracks into it. The two approaches I could think of were: > > 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. I > haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output > driver that writes to a file. > > 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. > This is also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the > connection until fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to > start fluidsynth and give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the > file immediately so by the time I've made the connections and hit > "record" it is half way through. > > Does anyone please have ideas how I can do this? > jack_capture constantly monitors which jack ports are connected to the soundcard, so it will record everything you hear, even if fluidsynth makes the jack connection after it starts playing. After recorded, you can import the sound into ardour. jack_capture can be downloaded here: http://www.notam02.no/arkiv/src/ As an alternative, I think you can use the patchbay in qjackctl as well to make sure fluidsynth always connects to ardour. From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sat Dec 2 05:50:26 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:50:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Cesare Marilungo: > > chris beagles wrote: >> On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: >>> Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >>>> On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: >>>>> Nox exactly audio related but to me it is... >>>>> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 >>>> If it works, I'll be the happiest man in the world... >>> >>> What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old >>> proprietary license? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >> >> They spelt ubuntu wrong... >> And it looks a lot like a binary only license. > Is there any big manufacturer who ever released open source code? > Oh yeah. A better question would be, which big manufacturer who _never_ release open source code. But not even Microsoft qualifies as being one of those: http://www.alfred-j-faust.de/download/BarsnPipesSrc.zip (Link to a commercial sequencer they bought up and later released for free with the source "as is") From shakti at bayarea.net Sat Dec 2 07:19:26 2006 From: shakti at bayarea.net (Tracey Hytry) Date: Sat Dec 2 07:19:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <457151FA.3030408@curates-egg.org> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6712.1000802@ballen.fastmail.fm> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <457151FA.3030408@curates-egg.org> Message-ID: <20061202041926.7785f7d2.shakti@bayarea.net> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 10:14:18 +0000 rob wrote: > Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > > If you're talking about rtirq, you can find the last known one here: > > > > http://www.rncbc.org/jack/rtirq-20060819.tar.gz > Not trying to be too picky here - but the spec file says license is GPL, > but script header says all rights reserved.... > > Thanks for the script. > R The way I read it is Rui holds the copywrite for rtirq(all rights reserved), but has been nice enough to license the use and modifications of it to all of us under the terms of the GPL. Thanks Rui Tracey. From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 2 08:48:55 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 2 07:50:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > Cesare Marilungo: >> >> chris beagles wrote: >>> On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: >>>> Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >>>>> On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: >>>>>> Nox exactly audio related but to me it is... >>>>>> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 >>>>> If it works, I'll be the happiest man in the world... >>>> >>>> What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old >>>> proprietary license? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Steve >>>> >>> >>> They spelt ubuntu wrong... >>> And it looks a lot like a binary only license. >> Is there any big manufacturer who ever released open source code? >> > > Oh yeah. A better question would be, which big manufacturer who _never_ > release open source code. I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. Is there any? c. > > But not even Microsoft qualifies as being one of those: > http://www.alfred-j-faust.de/download/BarsnPipesSrc.zip > (Link to a commercial sequencer they bought up and later released for > free with the source "as is") > > > -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 2 08:50:08 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 2 07:51:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> References: <20061128011637.GD27008@replic.net> <87ejrnhkzr.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> Chris McCormick wrote: > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 08:28:52PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > >> chris beagles wrote: >> >>> On 11/30/06, Stephen Hassard wrote: >>> >>>> Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 11/28/06, Timothy A Gorman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.lacie.com/support/drivers/driver.htm?id=10095 >>>>>> >>>> What license is this released under? I assume that it's a binary-old >>>> proprietary license? >>>> >>> And it looks a lot like a binary only license. >>> >> Is there any big manufacturer who ever released open source code? >> > > IBM! > Again, I know. But I was talkting about drivers. Other examples? c. > Chris. > > ------------------- > chris@mccormick.cx > http://mccormick.cx > > > -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From rob at curates-egg.org Sat Dec 2 07:52:38 2006 From: rob at curates-egg.org (rob) Date: Sat Dec 2 07:53:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <20061202041926.7785f7d2.shakti@bayarea.net> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6712.1000802@ballen.fastmail.fm> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <457151FA.3030408@curates-egg.org> <20061202041926.7785f7d2.shakti@bayarea.net> Message-ID: <45717716.6040404@curates-egg.org> Tracey Hytry wrote: > The way I read it is Rui holds the copywrite for rtirq(all rights reserved), but has been nice enough to license the use and modifications of it to all of us under the terms of the GPL. > Sorry - I expressed myself poorly (yet again). IANAL but my understanding of the GPL license is that works distributed under GPL must satisfy criteria including prominent display of the license terms, which the script does not. R From rob at curates-egg.org Sat Dec 2 07:55:08 2006 From: rob at curates-egg.org (rob) Date: Sat Dec 2 07:55:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457177AC.8080308@curates-egg.org> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. Is > there any? > AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which works on Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) R From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sat Dec 2 08:03:16 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Sat Dec 2 08:03:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061202125536.852964804817@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061202125536.852964804817@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: "Kjetil S. Matheussen": >> >> Hi, >> >> I'd like to be able to play a MIDI file with fluidsynth and have ardour record the output to I can mix other tracks into it. The two approaches I could think of were: >> >> 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. I >> haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output >> driver that writes to a file. >> >> 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. >> This is also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the >> connection until fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to >> start fluidsynth and give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the >> file immediately so by the time I've made the connections and hit >> "record" it is half way through. >> >> Does anyone please have ideas how I can do this? >> > > jack_capture constantly monitors which jack ports are connected to > the soundcard, so it will record everything you hear, even if fluidsynth > makes the jack connection after it starts playing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hmmm. I actually meant to say: "after jack_capture starts recording". :-) From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 2 09:03:00 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 2 08:04:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <457177AC.8080308@curates-egg.org> References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> <457177AC.8080308@curates-egg.org> Message-ID: <45718794.4010700@poeticstudios.com> rob wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: >> I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. Is >> there any? >> > AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which works > on Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) > > R > > Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . Will the drivers be completely open source and use all the same features of the windows counterpart? c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From georg.holzmann at student.kug.ac.at Sat Dec 2 10:28:41 2006 From: georg.holzmann at student.kug.ac.at (Georg Holzmann) Date: Sat Dec 2 10:41:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] hdsploader / changing soundcards In-Reply-To: <1164962894.456fec4e8d3b3@www1.helsinki.fi> References: <1164962894.456fec4e8d3b3@www1.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <45719BA9.8030706@student.kug.ac.at> Hallo! > I use "sudo pccardctl eject" "sudo pccardctl insert" to reinsert the card. > There is no need to physically remove the card in between the commands. So > it's essentially the same as reloading the driver. only for the record: that's exactly what I was looking for ! Thanks, LG Georg From ross at kallisti.us Sat Dec 2 11:09:11 2006 From: ross at kallisti.us (Ross Vandegrift) Date: Sat Dec 2 11:10:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 01:50:08PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Again, > I know. But I was talkting about drivers. Other examples? Lots more than you might think. While many manufacturers are very closed about implementing their drivers, there's also a bunch that contribute to the development and support of freely licensed drivers. Start reading the linux-kernel and xorg mailing lists. You see plenty of people with Intel, AMD, Adaptec, Promise, among others. Read through the source and you'll also see code that was originally submitted by the manufacturer, but licensed freely enough that the community can sucessfully maintain it. 3Ware is one such example. As far as audio hardware, Creative Labs used to be a good player - they contributed the original emu10k1 driver. They're not so cool now; the top news item on opensource.creative.com is about releasing proprietary drivers... -- Ross Vandegrift ross@kallisti.us "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 From mobarre at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 12:02:21 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Sat Dec 2 12:02:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <000401c715fc$19b80260$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <457116CE.9070805@hawaii.rr.com> <000401c715fc$19b80260$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <3c808a150612020902k4b38b4b5w90648eda65046ba0@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > I got this via the list ... so, sorry, maybe it just doesn't like your > > email address right now? ;-) > > LAU/LAD lists are fine. It is the consortium one that is causing weird > problems. > > Ico > If LAD/LAU/LAA where not fine I would have been very sad, and hopefully aware of the problem ;-) Is your website hosted on a path used by your list to transit mail ? (like does it do anything like smtp routing ?) Did both problems start at the same time ? __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From mobarre at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 12:11:38 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Sat Dec 2 12:11:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> References: <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> Message-ID: <3c808a150612020911s1f90543gf9408c508d36410d@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 01:50:08PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > Again, > > I know. But I was talkting about drivers. Other examples? > > Lots more than you might think. While many manufacturers are very > closed about implementing their drivers, there's also a bunch that > contribute to the development and support of freely licensed drivers. > > Start reading the linux-kernel and xorg mailing lists. You see plenty > of people with Intel, AMD, Adaptec, Promise, among others. Read > through the source and you'll also see code that was originally > submitted by the manufacturer, but licensed freely enough that the > community can sucessfully maintain it. 3Ware is one such example. > > As far as audio hardware, Creative Labs used to be a good > player - they contributed the original emu10k1 driver. They're not so > cool now; the top news item on opensource.creative.com is about > releasing proprietary drivers... > You forgot RME. They make excellent hardware, and they helped the driver development AFAIK. __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 2 13:36:37 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 2 12:37:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> References: <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <873b83hamq.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061128142159.GH1800@gmail.com> <456C7B37.1070006@expressmart.com> <3c808a150611301203j256d47f8s648ded009e24c4e1@mail.gmail.com> <456F3F08.6030608@hassard.net> <79eea87e0612010840w2c24f348l52d3afc6805e290b@mail.gmail.com> <45709084.5030906@poeticstudios.com> <20061202035903.GB30142@mccormick.cx> <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> Message-ID: <4571C7B5.9010901@poeticstudios.com> Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 01:50:08PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > >> Again, >> I know. But I was talkting about drivers. Other examples? >> > > Lots more than you might think. While many manufacturers are very > closed about implementing their drivers, there's also a bunch that > contribute to the development and support of freely licensed drivers. > > Start reading the linux-kernel and xorg mailing lists. You see plenty > of people with Intel, AMD, Adaptec, Promise, among others. Read > through the source and you'll also see code that was originally > submitted by the manufacturer, but licensed freely enough that the > community can sucessfully maintain it. 3Ware is one such example. > > As far as audio hardware, Creative Labs used to be a good > player - they contributed the original emu10k1 driver. They're not so > cool now; the top news item on opensource.creative.com is about > releasing proprietary drivers... > > Yes, I knew about most of this examples. I'm not too much into these stuff, so maybe I was wrong. But my impression is that there's still much to do. AFAIK, the hardware of a device is becoming less important than before. Most devices use the same chips programmed to do different things or the same thing in a different way. So the software side will be more important in the future, as an investment. With DRMs and such, things will be even worse, IMO. Take the iPod, for instance. I can install another firmware (which is no more just a firmware) on it (like rockbox or ipodlinux). How can Apple be interested in this? Or in letting me use whatever software I want to exchange tracks with the device. The iPod is more its software than its hardware. Am I wrong? Anyway, I commented this news just to say that we shouldn't be surprised if a software that comes from a big manufacturer to support some new technology is not open source. ;-) Cheers, c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 12:50:51 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 12:53:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Consortium "Made in Linux" cover idea Message-ID: <001201c7163a$688e02c0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Apologies for the cross-posting -- the consortium listserv that is hosted by Agnula server continues to refuse forwarding e-mail to its members... Apropos CD covers for the vol.1, how about taking the image from the http://lau.linuxaudio.org/faq/ ? IMHO it best portrays the idea of "Tux Power" without even having to explicitly state the subtitle. So, we could have the subtitle on the side and the back but perhaps not on the front side of the cover? Or if we do have it on the front, perhaps making it intentional small and inconspicuous? Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology, CCTAD, and CHCI Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-1137 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico@vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic/ From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 12:56:20 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 12:58:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in linux "logo's now ? In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612020902k4b38b4b5w90648eda65046ba0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001301c7163b$2cbcf110$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Is your website hosted on a path used by your list to transit mail ? > (like does it do anything like smtp routing ?) They shouldn't be as the listserv is hosted by the Agnula server (I was planning on moving the listserv over sometime soon, but not until I resolve current more pressing matters obviously). It was hosted there even before we moved the main server so I do not think it is in any shape or form associated (especially since the lists.linuxaudio.org domain is explicitly associated with a different server). Unless I am missing something? Also, IIRC mail server was not initially enabled on our end (at one point it was enabled for our internal listserv testing purposes but has been disabled since), and the Agnula listserv still worked ok... > > Did both problems start at the same time ? Not quite, but oddly they were not far apart from each other either (maybe days?). All that being said, the linuxaudio.org site is back up. Let's see how long it stays up this time around... Best wishes, Ico From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 13:24:24 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 13:26:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Listserve back up Message-ID: <001a01c7163f$188e05e0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Curiously, shortly following the changing of the network card adapter which brought the consortium Web server back up, the consortium lists are now back as well. It appears that there is some kind of "umbilical cord" :-P that my mental radar failed to notice between the two and therefore the listserve has been for some reason bogged down due to network issues we've been experiencing on the Web server (which is a rather curious thing since the Web server has mail service disabled... go figure!). Well, I am glad that got resolved, sort of :-) Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology, CCTAD, and CHCI Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-1137 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico@vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic/ From stuff at trackingsolutions.ca Sat Dec 2 15:21:52 2006 From: stuff at trackingsolutions.ca (stuff@trackingsolutions.ca) Date: Sat Dec 2 15:20:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> References: <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <45718490.9040609@poeticstudios.com> <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> Message-ID: <200612021321.52910.stuff@trackingsolutions.ca> Hey Ross, What is your point in using this quote below? I figure you want to talk about it and that is why you are posting it :) "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." ????????--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 This guy was obviously part of something disguising as Christianity. I am a Christian not a Catholic or a Protestant. My Christian heritage survived outside the realm of Catholicism or the people who were Catholics protesting the Catholics. It really sucks that people peg Christians for the actions of Catholics or such posing as Christians that are very easily and provably not following Jesus' commands. If you want to look at the real example look to Jesus not to St. Whoever from the GSCS (Gimme Some Cash Society). I personally do not attend a religious building due to the corruption but my relationship with my Saviour is strong and free. It really deserves to be lashed out at. I know! There is much to be leaned about Jesus and what he wants for us all. E-mail me off list if you want to talk :) On Saturday 02 December 2006 9:09 am, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 01:50:08PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > Again, > > I know. But I was talkting about drivers. Other examples? > > Lots more than you might think. While many manufacturers are very > closed about implementing their drivers, there's also a bunch that > contribute to the development and support of freely licensed drivers. > > Start reading the linux-kernel and xorg mailing lists. You see plenty > of people with Intel, AMD, Adaptec, Promise, among others. Read > through the source and you'll also see code that was originally > submitted by the manufacturer, but licensed freely enough that the > community can sucessfully maintain it. 3Ware is one such example. > > As far as audio hardware, Creative Labs used to be a good > player - they contributed the original emu10k1 driver. They're not so > cool now; the top news item on opensource.creative.com is about > releasing proprietary drivers... From songshop at bizmedia.com.au Sat Dec 2 15:46:22 2006 From: songshop at bizmedia.com.au (Geoff Beasley) Date: Sat Dec 2 16:47:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0linux?= "logo's =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0now?= ? In-Reply-To: <20061202101459.BE4E647F8FA6@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061202101459.BE4E647F8FA6@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612030746.22451.songshop@bizmedia.com.au> sorry Ico, i didn't mean the CD covers; there were some "mde in linux" icons i saw a while ago for use on web sites or album covers and the like. anyone else seen them ? best, g. From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 2 17:03:53 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 2 17:04:08 2006 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5Blinux-audio-user=5D_where_are_the_=22made_in =A0lin?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ux_=22logo's=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0now_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <200612030746.22451.songshop@bizmedia.com.au> Message-ID: <002301c7165d$c1bb5dc0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> That's on the linuxaudio.org and then click on the "logo" in the menu. Best wishes, Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- > user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Geoff Beasley > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:46 PM > To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu > Subject: RE: [linux-audio-user] where are the "made in ?linux > "logo's????????now ? > > sorry Ico, i didn't mean the CD covers; there were some "mde in linux" > icons i > saw a while ago for use on web sites or album covers and the like. anyone > else seen them ? > > best, > > g. From handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com Sat Dec 2 17:08:27 2006 From: handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com (Glen Kirkup) Date: Sat Dec 2 17:08:43 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run on real-time kernel while works fine on regular. Message-ID: Unfortunately I've recently come across a problem when running the startBristol script. I switch between two kernels (CK for desktop and RT7-CK for real-time music work). When within the CK kernel the program runs as expected, but when in the RT7-CK kernel, as both user and root, the program crashes and outputs this message with any selection of synth, audio driver and port: [root@myhost bin]# ./startBristol -jack ./startBristol: line 188: [: too many arguments spawning midi thread parent going into idle loop midi sequencer Problem with bind Could not open control listening socket: 0 No controlling socket available: anticipating MIDI connected to :0 (814b2f0) Error opening control device, exiting midi thread display is 1280 by 800 pixels Window is w 1280, h 800, d 24, 0 0 0 Using TrueColor display masks are ff0000 ff0000 ff0000 Initialise the arp2600 link to bristol: 8153348 hostname is localhost, bristol port is 5028 ./startBristol: line 272: 3877 Segmentation fault brighton $* -engine [root@myhost bin]# parent exiting [root@myhost bin]# As a Linux novice I do not know what could cause this. I changed the permissions of the entire bristol-0.9.5 directory to '777' after my preliminary tests, but this did not help. I have not experienced problems with other audio software using this kernel. If anyone could give assistance then I would be extremely grateful. Thanks, Glen _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb From markknecht at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 19:27:56 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Sat Dec 2 19:28:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> A bit off topic except for the FLAC part. Anyway I thought maybe a folks would be interested if for no other reason than the technology they are adopting or maybe doing remixes, etc. http://www.bnlmusic.com/music/ I caught these guys on NPR this morning. They now have their own label. They are trusting their customers to do the right thing with their music. They want folks to spread it around to see if it builds a market. Granted, the band has been around awhile and has lost most of it's buzz, but I liked the sound of what I heard. Cheers, Mark From jh at brainiac.com Sat Dec 2 19:47:11 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Sat Dec 2 19:48:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061202194711.e92dff6a.jh@brainiac.com> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:27:56 -0800 "Mark Knecht" wrote: > A bit off topic except for the FLAC part. > http://www.bnlmusic.com/music/ Hmmm, I don't see anything about FLAC. The "official bootleg" site (isn't that an oxymoron?) has downloadable MP3s for sale. I couldn't get the link to download the album to work for me (#$%&ing Flash), so I don't know what happens after that. There's a link to an OnTour site that seems to have audio content but requires a Yahoo widget which isn't available for Linux :-/ The FAQ does mention that they use MP3 and some FLAC, but that's it. I like the BNL a lot, but can't say that they're Linux-friendly at all. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From markknecht at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 22:01:05 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Sat Dec 2 22:01:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <20061202194711.e92dff6a.jh@brainiac.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> <20061202194711.e92dff6a.jh@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612021901l413f5240wb4ca43ea2266157a@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Joe Hartley wrote: > On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:27:56 -0800 > "Mark Knecht" wrote: > > > A bit off topic except for the FLAC part. > > http://www.bnlmusic.com/music/ > > Hmmm, I don't see anything about FLAC. The "official bootleg" site > (isn't that an oxymoron?) has downloadable MP3s for sale. I couldn't get > the link to download the album to work for me (#$%&ing Flash), so I > don't know what happens after that. There's a link to an OnTour site > that seems to have audio content but requires a Yahoo widget which > isn't available for Linux :-/ > > The FAQ does mention that they use MP3 and some FLAC, but that's it. > I like the BNL a lot, but can't say that they're Linux-friendly at all. > Joe, Go to where they sell the CD and you can buy CD, LP, mp3 or FLAC for different prices: http://www.werkshop.com/store/item.action?artist_id=10&cat_id=1&item_id=4348 Cheers, Mark From _ at whats-your.name Sat Dec 2 23:19:29 2006 From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen) Date: Sat Dec 2 23:20:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612021901l413f5240wb4ca43ea2266157a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> <20061202194711.e92dff6a.jh@brainiac.com> <5bdc1c8b0612021901l413f5240wb4ca43ea2266157a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061203041929.GA21288@replic.net> On Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 07:01:05PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > On 12/2/06, Joe Hartley wrote: > >On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:27:56 -0800 > >"Mark Knecht" wrote: > > > >> A bit off topic except for the FLAC part. > >> http://www.bnlmusic.com/music/ > > > >Hmmm, I don't see anything about FLAC. The "official bootleg" site > >(isn't that an oxymoron?) has downloadable MP3s for sale. I couldn't get > >the link to download the album to work for me (#$%&ing Flash), so I > >don't know what happens after that. There's a link to an OnTour site > >that seems to have audio content but requires a Yahoo widget which > >isn't available for Linux :-/ > > > >The FAQ does mention that they use MP3 and some FLAC, but that's it. > >I like the BNL a lot, but can't say that they're Linux-friendly at all. > > > > Joe, > Go to where they sell the CD and you can buy CD, LP, mp3 or FLAC > for different prices: so this is news? the site is entirely in Flash and you cant download the FLACs without buying? Primus has been offering flacs for like 5 years.. > > http://www.werkshop.com/store/item.action?artist_id=10&cat_id=1&item_id=4348 > > Cheers, > Mark > From lanas at securenet.net Sun Dec 3 09:49:12 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sun Dec 3 09:45:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061203094912.7d9312fe@mistral.stie> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:27:56 -0800 "Mark Knecht" ?crivait: > A bit off topic except for the FLAC part. Anyway I thought maybe a > folks would be interested if for no other reason than the technology > they are adopting or maybe doing remixes, etc. > > http://www.bnlmusic.com/music/ On a related BO topic, has anyone tried yet the Peter Gabriel free do-your-own-remixes ? And then, since at least 10 years now, Phish always let concert goers record live shows (they had special front rows to do so) and distribute the recordings all around no problemo. Maybe more bands should be doing that. Cheers, Al From ljc at internet.com.uy Sun Dec 3 09:48:04 2006 From: ljc at internet.com.uy (luis jure) Date: Sun Dec 3 09:56:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> El Fri, 1 Dec 2006 23:15:27 +0000 Steve Fosdick escribi?: > 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. > I haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output > driver that writes to a file. i haven't found an option for fluidsynth that writes directly to a file. normally i use timidity -Ow -o file.wav file.mid, it renders the midi file in a fraction of its real time duration. but timidity has some bugs when using soundfonts, so i wanted to try fluidsynth. after searching the documentation, i was under the impression that fluidsynth only knows how to output to the soundcard in real time, which is a pity. for me at least that makes it useless. i think it would be a good idea if the developers considered the possibility of including output to a file. best, lj From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 3 10:23:38 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 3 10:16:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> Message-ID: <4572EBFA.9040306@woh.rr.com> luis jure wrote: >i haven't found an option for fluidsynth that writes directly to a >file. normally i use timidity -Ow -o file.wav file.mid, it renders the >midi file in a fraction of its real time duration. but timidity has >some bugs when using soundfonts, so i wanted to try fluidsynth. after >searching the documentation, i was under the impression that fluidsynth >only knows how to output to the soundcard in real time, which is a >pity. for me at least that makes it useless. i think it would be a good >idea if the developers considered the possibility of including output >to a file. > Hi luis, Agree++. Meanwhile I continue to record MIDI files played in realtime from Fluidsynth (QSynth actually) into ecasound via JACK. Btw, I think TiMidity ignores performance characteristics of soundfonts. I stopped using it as you described because the same fonts were rendered differently than in QSynth/Fluidsynth. Best, dp From nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de Sun Dec 3 10:32:15 2006 From: nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de (Nicolai Lissner) Date: Sun Dec 3 10:32:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth In-Reply-To: <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> Message-ID: <20061203153214.GA909@gnuffy01> On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 11:48:04 -0300, luis jure wrote: > i haven't found an option for fluidsynth that writes directly to a > file. It's a little bit hidden, but it exists, try: fluidsynth -i -a file you can optionally specify an output-filename with -o audio.file.name=name.raw The output of fluidsynth is raw-data - so if you need .wav, use sox to convert the raw data to wave - for default fluidsynth output this would look like this: sox -r 44100 -w -c 2 -s fluidsynth.raw fluidsynth.wav Enjoy :) Nicolai From atte.jensen at gmail.com Sun Dec 3 13:38:45 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Sun Dec 3 13:40:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX Message-ID: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> Hi I'm trying to grab a video with the audio coming from jack. The command I run to get video/audio from my web cam is: ffmpeg -vd /dev/video0 -ad /dev/dsp3 -r 25 -s 640x480 demo2.avi However, I'd like the sound to come from jack. Is it possible to get jacks output from a device similar to /dev/dsp3 that ffmpeg will understand? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From dsbaikov at gmail.com Sun Dec 3 14:28:53 2006 From: dsbaikov at gmail.com (Dmitry Baikov) Date: Sun Dec 3 14:29:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> On 12/3/06, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > I'm trying to grab a video with the audio coming from jack. The command > I run to get video/audio from my web cam is: > ffmpeg -vd /dev/video0 -ad /dev/dsp3 -r 25 -s 640x480 demo2.avi > However, I'd like the sound to come from jack. Is it possible to get > jacks output from a device similar to /dev/dsp3 that ffmpeg will understand? Try oss2jack. http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/ Dmitry. From atte.jensen at gmail.com Sun Dec 3 15:33:03 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?QXR0ZSBBbmRyw6kgSmVuc2Vu?=) Date: Sun Dec 3 15:33:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> Dmitry Baikov wrote: > Try oss2jack. > > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/ Ok, thanks. That seem to depend on fusd (not available on debian) so I downloaded that and it won't make. So this is what I read in the README: 1- Make sure you're using a system running Linux 2.4.x. Unfortunately, there were some changes made in devfs in the later 2.5 (and 2.6 test) kernels that make devfs incompatible with FUSD. This hasn't been resolved yet. Hmmm. Does this mean that fusd and hence oss2jack is not possible on 2.6 kernel (which I naturally run)? Or did I miss something? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 3 15:43:31 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 3 15:43:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <457336A8.4020201@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Hi > > I'm trying to grab a video with the audio coming from jack. The command > I run to get video/audio from my web cam is: > ffmpeg -vd /dev/video0 -ad /dev/dsp3 -r 25 -s 640x480 demo2.avi > However, I'd like the sound to come from jack. Is it possible to get > jacks output from a device similar to /dev/dsp3 that ffmpeg will > understand? you could try a recent version of gstreamer. jack + ffmpeg modules and build a pipeline. - --robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFczaoeVUk8U+VK0IRAhL9AKChCjbg4WmIkgekhpMeBkiLm+oiPwCgl2XN eI/hdPHe/eTM0aobopF7IRg= =2nKF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 3 15:49:51 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 3 15:50:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45733834.6010808@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Dmitry Baikov wrote: > >> Try oss2jack. >> >> http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/ > > Ok, thanks. That seem to depend on fusd (not available on debian) so I > downloaded that and it won't make. So this is what I read in the README: > > 1- Make sure you're using a system running Linux 2.4.x. Unfortunately, > there were some changes made in devfs in the later 2.5 (and 2.6 test) > kernels that make devfs incompatible with FUSD. This hasn't been > resolved yet. > > Hmmm. Does this mean that fusd and hence oss2jack is not possible on 2.6 > kernel (which I naturally run)? Or did I miss something? > oss2jack +kfusd works here with a [rt-patched] vanilla 2.6.17 kernel on debian/sid. I remember that it did not compile straight forward, but I don't remember what it was... - can't have been too tricky. I don't think you need all of fusd... just kfusd HTH, robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFczg0eVUk8U+VK0IRApOiAKCl8nkiHxqLBDOx3/4YXT64fVe+cwCgvrG9 PVKgowVJ/XdxZNFL50e0TAo= =mhBE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dominic.sacre at gmx.de Sun Dec 3 15:51:56 2006 From: dominic.sacre at gmx.de (Dominic =?utf-8?q?Sacr=C3=A9?=) Date: Sun Dec 3 15:54:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> On Sunday 03 December 2006 21:33, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Hmmm. Does this mean that fusd and hence oss2jack is not possible on > 2.6 kernel (which I naturally run)? Or did I miss something? On the oss2jack site, there's a patched version of fusd (fusd-kor), that should work for 2.6 kernels. On recent kernels, since 2.6.18 I think, you'll also need to apply a patch to remove the dependency on devfs, which can be found here: http://lalists.stanford.edu/lau/2006/09/0727.html Also, on my system fusd fails to create its devices for some reason, although udev is setup correctly, as far as I can see. In case you've got the same problem, just create the devices manually: mkdir /dev/fusd mknod /dev/fusd/control c 254 0 mknod /dev/fusd/status c 253 0 chown root.audio /dev/fusd/* chmod 664 /dev/fusd/* Dominic From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 3 16:06:41 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 3 16:06:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> Message-ID: <45733C26.2010903@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Also, on my system fusd fails to create its devices for some reason, > although udev is setup correctly, as far as I can see. In case you've got > the same problem, just create the devices manually: rules.d/fusd.rules: SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="control", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", GROUP="audio" SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="status", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", GROUP="audio" works for me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFczwleVUk8U+VK0IRAiL/AKCYdQPDije01G4IhCt14OR/r12tiwCfclmU Vlco/CjK4dt3FkbCEipKtws= =VS/i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rncbc at rncbc.org Sun Dec 3 16:18:38 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sun Dec 3 16:15:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <45717716.6040404@curates-egg.org> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456D6712.1000802@ballen.fastmail.fm> <456D6B79.6020707@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611291203i40f307b2kba6fa1bf441d888d@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <457151FA.3030408@curates-egg.org> <20061202041926.7785f7d2.shakti@bayarea.net> <45717716.6040404@curates-egg.org> Message-ID: <45733F2E.9030005@rncbc.org> rob wrote: > Tracey Hytry wrote: >> The way I read it is Rui holds the copywrite for rtirq(all rights >> reserved), but has been nice enough to license the use and >> modifications of it to all of us under the terms of the GPL. >> > Sorry - I expressed myself poorly (yet again). > > IANAL but my understanding of the GPL license is that works distributed > under GPL must satisfy criteria including prominent display of the > license terms, which the script does not. > IANAL too, but my will is that all rights are reserved and protected in the terms of the GPL. I find Rob is right and find myself guilty of pure lazyness to put the whole GPL header verbatim on the script (in the beginning the header was just longer that the actual code, so I just spitted the "All rights reserved" line :). But its GPL alright, rest assured. Next time I'll try to make a proper release (which never happened before 'coz I've always handed the script to anybody who asked for it :) Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk Sun Dec 3 16:26:20 2006 From: tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk (tim hall) Date: Sun Dec 3 16:26:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <200612021321.52910.stuff@trackingsolutions.ca> References: <20061128103524.GC1800@gmail.com> <20061202160910.GA21462@kallisti.us> <200612021321.52910.stuff@trackingsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <200612032126.20655.tech@glastonburymusic.org.uk> On Saturday 02 December 2006 20:21, stuff@trackingsolutions.ca was like: > What is your point in using this quote below? I figure you want to talk > about it and that is why you are posting it :) > E-mail me off list if you want to talk :) I would personally really appreciate it if all discussions of this nature were kept off-list. -- cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim We are the people We've been waiting for. From dominic.sacre at gmx.de Sun Dec 3 16:35:23 2006 From: dominic.sacre at gmx.de (Dominic =?iso-8859-1?q?Sacr=E9?=) Date: Sun Dec 3 16:36:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <45733C26.2010903@gareus.org> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> <45733C26.2010903@gareus.org> Message-ID: <200612032235.23256.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> On Sunday 03 December 2006 22:06, Robin Gareus wrote: > rules.d/fusd.rules: > SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="control", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", > GROUP="audio" > SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="status", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", > GROUP="audio" > > works for me. Thanks, works for me, too! My previous udev rules were almost the same, but had single equal signs after SUBSYSTEM and KERNEL. Used to work on Ubuntu Dapper, no longer does on Edgy. Oh well... Dominic From folderol at ukfsn.org Sun Dec 3 17:38:09 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Sun Dec 3 17:38:19 2006 Subject: Hysterical Raisins - Was: [linux-audio-user] Re: Software recommendation In-Reply-To: <200611282233.31591.rj@spamatica.se> References: <20061128075115.GA32161@mccormick.cx> <200611282233.31591.rj@spamatica.se> Message-ID: <20061203223809.5af824d9@general> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:33:31 +0100 Robert Jonsson wrote: > Hi guys, > It's that time of year again, I feel like trying to push the word about MusE > some... > > Any particular reason why you'd find MusE to be a bad solution for this? > > Being a MusE developer and long time user, I'm merely asking as to understand > what other users lack in MusE that we might fix to make it better (apart from > mediocre publicity...). > > This questions is definately not just directed at Carlo. > > Regards, > Robert When I first came onto the Linux Audio scene I tried both Muse & Rosegarden. Muse had a *requirement* for LASH and Rosegarden didn't. At that time not only did I not want LASH - still have never used it - but my elderly Mandrake install dived into dependency hell if I tried to install it. I had a quick peek at Muse recently, but I'm now so familiar with Rosegarden it just doesn't feel right. -- Will J G From lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk Sun Dec 3 19:37:53 2006 From: lists at pelvoux.nildram.co.uk (Steve Fosdick) Date: Sun Dec 3 19:39:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth In-Reply-To: <20061203153214.GA909@gnuffy01> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> <20061203114804.2252dd09@acme.acmenet> <20061203153214.GA909@gnuffy01> Message-ID: <20061204003753.5877aa51.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 16:32:15 +0100 Nicolai Lissner wrote: > On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 11:48:04 -0300, luis jure wrote: > > i haven't found an option for fluidsynth that writes directly to a > > file. > > It's a little bit hidden, but it exists, try: > > fluidsynth -i -a file > That's well worth knowing for the future. Meanwhile thanks for the suggestion to use Muse. That worked a treat and syncronised with ardour nicely. Steve. From handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com Sun Dec 3 21:08:03 2006 From: handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com (Glen Kirkup) Date: Sun Dec 3 21:08:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run on real-time kernelwhile works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you for your quick reply. >From: "Nick Copeland" >To: handstandnosemanual@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run on real-time >kernelwhile works fine on regular. >Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:46:23 +0100 > >Hi Glen, > >I am not sure what the exact cause it, but the audio engine (bristol) could >not open its TCP socket interface: > >>Problem with bind >>Could not open control listening socket: 0 >>No controlling socket available: anticipating MIDI > >This is when the bristol process attempts to open a TCP socket for >communication to allow the GUI to connect and drive the synth parameters, >and it fails. The engine stays active and decides to default to a physical >MIDI interface and expects control signals from there - this also fails for >other reasons, and the engine exits. The seg fault of the GUI is a side >effect of not being able to connect to the engine via the TCP socket (it >cannot connect via MIDI). I can fix the segmentation fault quite easy but I >will have to look at bit further to find out the reason the engine cannot >open its control port. > >Now the engine appears to want to open sock id '0' which is unusual - the >default is 5028, and as you can see the GUI does appear to try to connect >to this port, expecting the engine to be listening. Do you run the same >software with the two different kernel releases? That should not be a >problem as bristol is all done in user space, not kernel space. > >>./startBristol: line 188: [: too many arguments > >I will look into why this is reported, it may be related. > >Do you always use the jack audio interface with both kernels? > >Regards, > >Nick > When trying different port options I no longer receive any error messages before the segfault and everything seems to connect fine. I've found that using the -jack option with any other option while jack is running is what causes both './startBristol: line 188: [: too many arguments' and the program choosing port 0 by default. When running in the non-RT kernel, where Bristol works as expected, gives './startBristol: line 188: [: too many arguments' when jack is running and -jack with any other option is used, though selects the correct default port and works fine. All options I have tried still result in the segfault on the RT kernel (./startBristol: line 272: 3877 Segmentation fault brighton $*), though, which is the only real error message left considering that the 'too many arguments' problem does not effect the working of Bristol on the other kernel. I use the same software on both kernels and the jack audio interface for low latency. p.s. Thank you for Bristol, it's a great joy to play with and it being free is wonderful. Thanks, Glen. >>From: "Glen Kirkup" >>Reply-To: A list for linux audio users >> >>To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu >>Subject: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run on real-time >>kernelwhile works fine on regular. >>Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 22:08:27 +0000 >> >>Unfortunately I've recently come across a problem when running the >>startBristol script. I switch between two kernels (CK for desktop and >>RT7-CK for real-time music work). When within the CK kernel the program >>runs as expected, but when in the RT7-CK kernel, as both user and root, >>the program crashes and outputs this message with any selection of synth, >>audio driver and port: >> >>[root@myhost bin]# ./startBristol -jack >>./startBristol: line 188: [: too many arguments >>spawning midi thread >>parent going into idle loop >>midi sequencer >>Problem with bind >>Could not open control listening socket: 0 >>No controlling socket available: anticipating MIDI >>connected to :0 (814b2f0) >>Error opening control device, exiting midi thread >>display is 1280 by 800 pixels >>Window is w 1280, h 800, d 24, 0 0 0 >>Using TrueColor display >>masks are ff0000 ff0000 ff0000 >>Initialise the arp2600 link to bristol: 8153348 >>hostname is localhost, bristol >>port is 5028 >>./startBristol: line 272: 3877 Segmentation fault brighton $* >>-engine >>[root@myhost bin]# parent exiting >> >>[root@myhost bin]# >> >>As a Linux novice I do not know what could cause this. I changed the >>permissions of the entire bristol-0.9.5 directory to '777' after my >>preliminary tests, but this did not help. I have not experienced problems >>with other audio software using this kernel. If anyone could give >>assistance then I would be extremely grateful. >> >>Thanks, >>Glen >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! >>http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > _________________________________________________________________ Find Singles In Your Area Now With Match.com! msnuk.match.com From tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk Mon Dec 4 04:06:18 2006 From: tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk (tim hall) Date: Mon Dec 4 04:06:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Recording Fluidsynth playing a MIDI file with ardour In-Reply-To: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> References: <20061201231527.5af666ea.lists@pelvoux.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <200612040906.18616.tech@glastonburymusic.org.uk> On Friday 01 December 2006 23:15, Steve Fosdick was like: > 1. Have fluidsynth output to a WAV file and import that into ardour. ?I > haven't been able to do that because I can find a fluidsynth output driver > that writes to a file. Use timemachine or some similar sound recording utility. > 2. Connect the output of fluidsynth to the ardour track with jack. ?This is > also problematic because I can't use qjackctl to make the connection until > fluidsynth is started but I don't seem to be able to start fluidsynth and > give it a MIDI file without it starting to play the file immediately so by > the time I've made the connections and hit "record" it is half way through. Drive fluidsynth with a MIDI sequencer like Rosegarden -- cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim We are the people We've been waiting for. From tuimonen at cc.hut.fi Mon Dec 4 05:32:52 2006 From: tuimonen at cc.hut.fi (Tommi Sakari Uimonen) Date: Mon Dec 4 05:35:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <45718794.4010700@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> <457177AC.8080308@curates-egg.org> <45718794.4010700@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: >> > I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. Is >> > there any? >> > >> AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which works on >> Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) >> > Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . http://intellinuxgraphics.org Tommi From cladisch at fastmail.net Mon Dec 4 06:34:34 2006 From: cladisch at fastmail.net (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon Dec 4 06:35:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] corrected by cdparanoia In-Reply-To: <200612020722.16455@goldspace.net> References: <200612020722.16455@goldspace.net> Message-ID: <1165232074.11268.278728691@webmail.messagingengine.com> Andrew Gaydenko wrote: > There is "Legend of characters" for cdparanoia: > http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html > > Does word "corrected" mean bit-to-bit-accurate result? Depends. This is explained in the next answer right below. HTH Clemens From a at gaydenko.com Mon Dec 4 06:45:05 2006 From: a at gaydenko.com (Andrew Gaydenko) Date: Mon Dec 4 06:44:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] corrected by cdparanoia In-Reply-To: <1165232074.11268.278728691@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200612020722.16455@goldspace.net> <1165232074.11268.278728691@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <200612041445.06406@goldspace.net> Clemens, You see, words like " ' ', '-', and '+' symbols in the progress bar are harmless; the resulting audio file should have no defects" tells nothing, if to be a pedant :-) I have tried to rip the same track twice, got ' ' and '+' chars only, but files were different near last second. Probably something with cache disabling is wrong. ======= On Monday 04 December 2006 14:34, Clemens Ladisch wrote: ======= Andrew Gaydenko wrote: > There is "Legend of characters" for cdparanoia: > http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html > > Does word "corrected" mean bit-to-bit-accurate result? Depends. This is explained in the next answer right below. HTH Clemens From cesare at poeticstudios.com Mon Dec 4 11:43:39 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 4 10:44:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: References: <20061201195958.C9F5847B8B9E@music.columbia.edu> <45718447.1000402@poeticstudios.com> <457177AC.8080308@curates-egg.org> <45718794.4010700@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <4574503B.80502@poeticstudios.com> Tommi Sakari Uimonen wrote: >>> > I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. >>> Is > there any? >>> > >>> AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which >>> works on >>> Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) >>> >> Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . > > http://intellinuxgraphics.org > > > Tommi > > Ok, but even intel still releases most of their driver as binary only (e.g. for chips used in wireless cards, modems). Why? c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From atte.jensen at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 11:03:55 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:04:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <45733C26.2010903@gareus.org> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> <45733C26.2010903@gareus.org> Message-ID: <457446EB.3020100@gmail.com> Robin Gareus wrote: > rules.d/fusd.rules: > SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="control", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", > GROUP="audio" > SUBSYSTEM=="fusd", KERNEL=="status", NAME="fusd/%k", MODE="0660", > GROUP="audio" Thanks, works here too... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From atte.jensen at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 11:04:28 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?QXR0ZSBBbmRyw6kgSmVuc2Vu?=) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:05:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] output from jack as /dev/dspX In-Reply-To: <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> References: <457319B5.50709@gmail.com> <70a871c80612031128j57cb502bhf34ec8e0d994e43e@mail.gmail.com> <4573347F.1030607@gmail.com> <200612032151.56252.dominic.sacre@gmx.de> Message-ID: <4574470C.8030709@gmail.com> Dominic Sacr? wrote: > On recent kernels, since 2.6.18 I think, you'll also need to apply a patch > to remove the dependency on devfs, which can be found here: > > http://lalists.stanford.edu/lau/2006/09/0727.html Thanks, that helped! -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Mon Dec 4 11:12:39 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:05:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Dan Easley wrote: > i think two promising options for docs.*, both bandied around a bit on > various lists, are > > 1. setting up a wiki, a la > (though there are > security concerns - twice now i've removed spam from this page) and > > 2. community development of a new edition of dave's book. was there > any resolution as to the possibility of doing this? i believe dave > ran it past his publisher but i can't remember the results. i haven't > seen his book but am planning to buy it as soon as i start bringing in > the full-time wage - would it be a good idea to use it as a base for > our documentation (not word-for-word but structurally)? or would that > incur a property rights liability? Responding to option 2: I've terminated the book project, at least my involvement in it is over. My publisher and the contributors have known this for a few months, I apologize for not announcing the fact earlier, but as you can see from my updates to http://linux-sound.org I've not exactly been keeping up. Various reasons prompted my decision, family concerns being the most influential. Re: book structure: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead, use it, it's just a chapter succession. Lots of new headings should be added anyway. By the way, I'm fairly certain that all my stuff published by LJ and O'Reilly still belongs to me. They're pretty decent about it, all rights revert to the author after a certain period, a nice nod from publishers towards reusability. Anyway, again as far as I'm concerned the community can assemble and revise that stuff as it sees fit. And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to continue working with it any longer. I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my attention now. Writing another book and maintaining linux-sound.org are unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage those particular projects. Best regards, dp From smcameron at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 11:12:42 2006 From: smcameron at yahoo.com (Stephen Cameron) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:12:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <4574503B.80502@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <585013.99131.qm@web33010.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Tommi Sakari Uimonen wrote: > >>> > I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. > >>> Is > there any? > >>> > > >>> AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which > >>> works on > >>> Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) > >>> > >> Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . > > > > http://intellinuxgraphics.org > > > > > > Tommi > > > > > Ok, but even intel still releases most of their driver as binary only > (e.g. for chips used in wireless cards, modems). Why? (Caveat: I don't know what heck I'm talking about) In the case of wireless, it may be due to government regulations of the airwaves. E.g. Read the README from the ipw2200 driver, specifically section 0. http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/README.ipw2200 Not trying to defend or attack Intel's position, just providing a link to something I saw once which seems related to the answer to your question. -- steve ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. From brad at sonaural.com Mon Dec 4 11:15:51 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:16:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> Dave Phillips wrote: > Dan Easley wrote: > >> i think two promising options for docs.*, both bandied around a bit on >> various lists, are >> >> 1. setting up a wiki, a la >> (though there are >> security concerns - twice now i've removed spam from this page) and >> >> 2. community development of a new edition of dave's book. was there >> any resolution as to the possibility of doing this? i believe dave >> ran it past his publisher but i can't remember the results. i haven't >> seen his book but am planning to buy it as soon as i start bringing in >> the full-time wage - would it be a good idea to use it as a base for >> our documentation (not word-for-word but structurally)? or would that >> incur a property rights liability? > > Responding to option 2: > > I've terminated the book project, at least my involvement in it is over. > My publisher and the contributors have known this for a few months, I > apologize for not announcing the fact earlier, but as you can see from > my updates to http://linux-sound.org I've not exactly been keeping up. > Various reasons prompted my decision, family concerns being the most > influential. > > Re: book structure: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead, use it, it's just > a chapter succession. Lots of new headings should be added anyway. > > By the way, I'm fairly certain that all my stuff published by LJ and > O'Reilly still belongs to me. They're pretty decent about it, all rights > revert to the author after a certain period, a nice nod from publishers > towards reusability. Anyway, again as far as I'm concerned the community > can assemble and revise that stuff as it sees fit. > > And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are > doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at > all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use > them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. > Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to > continue working with it any longer. > > I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my > attention now. Writing another book and maintaining linux-sound.org are > unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage those > particular projects. > > Best regards, > > dp > > I believe everyone would join in and raise their glass to you Dave, for your contributions to Linux Audio! Thank You. Cheers! -- brad fuller sonaural: www.sonaural.com From mobarre at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 11:39:04 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Mon Dec 4 11:39:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <3c808a150612040839j7ab797f7j8de74387cfe04a84@mail.gmail.com> > Responding to option 2: > > I've terminated the book project, at least my involvement in it is over. > My publisher and the contributors have known this for a few months, I > apologize for not announcing the fact earlier, but as you can see from > my updates to http://linux-sound.org I've not exactly been keeping up. > Various reasons prompted my decision, family concerns being the most > influential. > > Re: book structure: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead, use it, it's just > a chapter succession. Lots of new headings should be added anyway. > > By the way, I'm fairly certain that all my stuff published by LJ and > O'Reilly still belongs to me. They're pretty decent about it, all rights > revert to the author after a certain period, a nice nod from publishers > towards reusability. Anyway, again as far as I'm concerned the community > can assemble and revise that stuff as it sees fit. > > And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are > doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at > all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use > them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. > Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to > continue working with it any longer. > > I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my > attention now. Writing another book and maintaining linux-sound.org are > unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage those > particular projects. > > Best regards, > > dp > I discovered with your mail linux-audio.org. Great site really. if other people volunteer to maintain it, I'll also give a hand. this has to be kept up to date. Adding some content would be one thing, but also give a lifting to the graphics part (I could handle some nice style sheets). -- __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From jack.oquin at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 12:46:46 2006 From: jack.oquin at gmail.com (Jack O'Quin) Date: Mon Dec 4 12:47:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> Message-ID: On 12/4/06, Brad Fuller wrote: > I believe everyone would join in and raise their glass to you Dave, for > your contributions to Linux Audio! Thank You. ++thanks; -- joq From linuxrootuser at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 11:31:08 2006 From: linuxrootuser at gmail.com (David Stephens) Date: Mon Dec 4 13:48:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <9ffb61520612040831o7a4edb97w2076d671570e26c6@mail.gmail.com> Cheers! I hoist a pint of Guinness On 12/4/06, Brad Fuller wrote: > > Dave Phillips wrote: > > Dan Easley wrote: > > > >> i think two promising options for docs.*, both bandied around a bit on > >> various lists, are > >> > >> 1. setting up a wiki, a la > >> (though there are > >> security concerns - twice now i've removed spam from this page) and > >> > >> 2. community development of a new edition of dave's book. was there > >> any resolution as to the possibility of doing this? i believe dave > >> ran it past his publisher but i can't remember the results. i haven't > >> seen his book but am planning to buy it as soon as i start bringing in > >> the full-time wage - would it be a good idea to use it as a base for > >> our documentation (not word-for-word but structurally)? or would that > >> incur a property rights liability? > > > > Responding to option 2: > > > > I've terminated the book project, at least my involvement in it is over. > > My publisher and the contributors have known this for a few months, I > > apologize for not announcing the fact earlier, but as you can see from > > my updates to http://linux-sound.org I've not exactly been keeping up. > > Various reasons prompted my decision, family concerns being the most > > influential. > > > > Re: book structure: As far as I'm concerned, go ahead, use it, it's just > > a chapter succession. Lots of new headings should be added anyway. > > > > By the way, I'm fairly certain that all my stuff published by LJ and > > O'Reilly still belongs to me. They're pretty decent about it, all rights > > revert to the author after a certain period, a nice nod from publishers > > towards reusability. Anyway, again as far as I'm concerned the community > > can assemble and revise that stuff as it sees fit. > > > > And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are > > doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at > > all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use > > them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. > > Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to > > continue working with it any longer. > > > > I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my > > attention now. Writing another book and maintaining linux-sound.org are > > unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage those > > particular projects. > > > > Best regards, > > > > dp > > > > > > I believe everyone would join in and raise their glass to you Dave, for > your contributions to Linux Audio! Thank You. > > Cheers! > > -- > brad fuller > sonaural: www.sonaural.com > > > > -- "When you get to the end of all the light you know and it's time to step into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing that one of two things shall happen: either you will be given something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly." --Dr. Edward Teller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061204/980617c6/attachment.html From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Dec 4 15:08:29 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon Dec 4 15:08:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <9ffb61520612040831o7a4edb97w2076d671570e26c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> <9ffb61520612040831o7a4edb97w2076d671570e26c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4574803D.7040100@hawaii.rr.com> No Guinness here, but a glass of French wine will do! You're a good guy, Dave! David Stephens wrote: > Cheers! I hoist a pint of Guinness > > On 12/4/06, *Brad Fuller* > > wrote: > > I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my > > attention now. Writing another book and maintaining > linux-sound.org are > > unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage > those > > particular projects. > > > > Best regards, > > > > dp > > I believe everyone would join in and raise their glass to you Dave, for > your contributions to Linux Audio! Thank You. -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From b0ef at esben-stien.name Mon Dec 4 20:17:13 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Mon Dec 4 18:29:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation In-Reply-To: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> (Dave Phillips's message of "Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:12:39 -0500") References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <87ac233zvq.fsf@esben-stien.name> Dave Phillips writes: > http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are doomed Thank you very much for your time and your service over the years. It's been a great resource and as volume in GNU Audio material rise, a wiki might be the best solution. Please remember to link to Hans Fugal Sound Wiki[1] from your site;). [1]http://lawiki.fugal.net/linuxaudio/show/HomePage -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Mon Dec 4 21:16:08 2006 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Mon Dec 4 21:16:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <1165284968.30537.70.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 11:46 -0600, Jack O'Quin wrote: > On 12/4/06, Brad Fuller wrote: > > I believe everyone would join in and raise their glass to you Dave, for > > your contributions to Linux Audio! Thank You. > > ++thanks; (incf thanks) Thanks Dave, your musings will be sorely missed... -- Fernando "I still like Lisp" From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 4 21:18:23 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 4 21:19:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] RE: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01c71813$a3fde840$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Responding to option 2: I am deeply sorry to hear that Dave! > I'm sorry but too many other important factors in my life require my > attention now. Writing another book and maintaining linux-sound.org are > unfortunately excluded. I'm not disappearing, I just can't manage those > particular projects. Totally understandable. Please allow me to express my deepest gratitude and respect for all you've done to build the Linux audio community from nothing into a formidable platform by providing an invaluable resource for all to use. For that matter, instead of a pint, we all ought to raise an entire keg! ;-) Hope you can still participate in the Linuxaudio.org matters. We sure could use your wisdom and insight! Best wishes, Ico From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 4 21:23:32 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 4 21:24:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] RE: linux audio wiki In-Reply-To: <87d56z9jrd.fsf@arnaudov.name> Message-ID: <000f01c71814$5c7a4d00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Hi Nedko, A while ago I proposed merging documentation efforts of the community, spearheaded by Dave's now unfortunately cancelled 2nd edition of his venerable book. Linuxaudio.org is already trying to head in this direction and we are currently in the process of assembling a team to utilize presently empty sub-domain docs.linuxaudio.org which ought to be perfect for this purpose (rather than hijacking lau faq site which has its own specific purpose). One possible scenario (which FWIW I very much favor) is to have a Wiki page that would sum up all of the projects listed on Dave's site as well as those that are also relevant but have not yet made it there. Using a similar template format we should provide a continuously updated consolidated resource for all Linux audio users, and more importantly all Linux distributions to reference. As such, we are also hoping to attract various distros to contribute to the same documentation project. So far goto10 guys (dyne creators) have expressed interest in the idea... Best wishes, Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: Nedko Arnaudov [mailto:nedko@arnaudov.name] > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:09 PM > To: ico@linuxaudio.org > Subject: linux audio wiki > > There was a talk in #lad and there is idea to have general purpose wiki > for linux audio. http://lau.linuxaudio.org/faq looks perfect except that > it is "user" faq oriented. What you think about having "lau faq" > category with all current lau faq pages in it and using the mediawiki > installation as general purpose linux audio wiki. Such wiki will include > user and developer oriented pages. It will include also information > about belonging of software to groups like lv2, dssi, jack, alsa midi, > jack midi, jack audio, sequencer, host, etc. Something similar (software > categorization/grouping) is made at http://linux-sound.org/ and > http://lawiki.fugal.net/linuxaudio/show/HomePage > > -- > Nedko Arnaudov From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Mon Dec 4 22:50:33 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Mon Dec 4 22:56:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: <20061204161256.A759E48DFB23@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061204161256.A759E48DFB23@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Cesare Marilungo: > Tommi Sakari Uimonen wrote: >>>>> I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. >>>> Is > there any? >>>>> >>>> AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which >>>> works on >>>> Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) >>>> >>> Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . >> >> http://intellinuxgraphics.org >> >> >> Tommi >> >> > Ok, but even intel still releases most of their driver as binary only > (e.g. for chips used in wireless cards, modems). Why? > I don't have this impression of intel. Do you have any references to intel releasing "most of their drivers as binary only"? (maybe the do for windows, but that might just be because of tradition.) From cesare at poeticstudios.com Tue Dec 5 00:28:33 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 4 23:30:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: LightScribe and linux In-Reply-To: References: <20061204161256.A759E48DFB23@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <45750381.4060808@poeticstudios.com> Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > Cesare Marilungo: >> Tommi Sakari Uimonen wrote: >>>>>> I mean big hardware manufacturers releasing open source drivers. >>>>> Is > there any? >>>>>> >>>>> AFAICT Intel are somehow tied to a group (maybe directly) which >>>>> works on >>>>> Xorg drivers for Intel GFX hardware. Are Intel big enough ? :) >>>>> >>>> Somehow :-) . Maybe directly ;-) . >>> >>> http://intellinuxgraphics.org >>> >>> >>> Tommi >>> >>> >> Ok, but even intel still releases most of their driver as binary only >> (e.g. for chips used in wireless cards, modems). Why? >> > > I don't have this impression of intel. Do you have any references to > intel releasing "most of their drivers as binary only"? > > (maybe the do for windows, but that might just be because of tradition.) > > > Tradition? =-O Ok. I give up. :-) d. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From gateswideopen at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 00:18:54 2006 From: gateswideopen at gmail.com (we are) Date: Tue Dec 5 00:19:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] gain and jack issues Message-ID: <5969dc560612042118w6bd2bb65p54a698858808d83f@mail.gmail.com> hey all, i have been using ardour2 (CVS) for about a year now and it has proved extremely useful and powerful. however, i am very confused when it come to how to control gain. firstly, i am using a gentoo system with a RME multiface with PCMCIA. (love this combo) I have a lot of problems getting a nice amount of gain from various sources, namely keyboards/synths, guitars, and live mixing desks. When i record into ardour the waveform is barely visable but i can hear it. it is pretty useless unless i normalise it after recording. this has been what i have been doing everytime i record something and its becoming a very tedious and i feel it is bad practice. i know that the multiface can have the internal gain changed to -10 +4 but i don't think that is the issue as the equipment i am using is nothing unusual. also, trying to get decent gain out of ardour is difficult to. the strange thing is that when i play files in audacious/XMMS though jack while ardour is running its REALLY loud. futhermore, when i import external sound files on ardour and preview the sound in the dialog box, once again its REALLY loud. could someone please explain to me what is happening. and yes, i have been using the HDSPmixer to alter gain however, i feel that the resolution of the faders is a little weak. thanks all! keep up the good work. From gateswideopen at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 00:30:05 2006 From: gateswideopen at gmail.com (we are) Date: Tue Dec 5 00:30:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please Message-ID: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. also, is there a way that it could auto detect what sound card is plugged in and load a preset accordingly. i use both my HDSP card and the onboard ICH intel sound chip depending on where i am at or how orgainised i am. but each card needs different priority and buffer setting for jack to opperate properly. i would really like to have qjackctl startup with my window manager but due to my flux in sound device decision, i currently end up with loads of errors and jack complaing at me if the preset does not mach the device loaded. perhaps this is a suggestion if there are no current work arounds. thanks From nickycopeland at hotmail.com Tue Dec 5 04:43:23 2006 From: nickycopeland at hotmail.com (Nick Copeland) Date: Tue Dec 5 04:54:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run on real-timekernelwhile works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Glen, >I've found that using the -jack option with any other option while jack is >running is what causes both './startBristol: line 188: [: too many >arguments' and the program choosing port 0 by default. When running in the >non-RT kernel, where Bristol works as expected, gives './startBristol: line >188: [: too many arguments' when jack is running and -jack with any other >option is used, though selects the correct default port and works fine. This may be an issue with the RT options? If jack is not running when you start bristol then the jack API will start it using the current user ID and permissions, and the bristol engine can connect to it. If the daemon is already running then you need sufficient privileges to connect, and you may have differences between the RT and non-RT systems. If the engine fails to connect then it will exit gracefully, and, in the release you have, if the brighton GUI fals to connect to bristol it exits rather ungracefully. This exit is now a little nicer, but the issue remains the failure of bristol to link to jack, I think. What happens if you start bristol as root? I will look into the error message on line 188, I don't think it is the cause, just a syntax error in the wrapper script. Regards, Nick. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From mobarre at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 04:55:02 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Tue Dec 5 05:01:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] gain and jack issues In-Reply-To: <5969dc560612042118w6bd2bb65p54a698858808d83f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042118w6bd2bb65p54a698858808d83f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c808a150612050155l422c16f9u398d4cc79bcb5b86@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, we are wrote: > hey all, > > i have been using ardour2 (CVS) for about a year now and it has proved > extremely useful and powerful. however, i am very confused when it > come to how to control gain. > > firstly, i am using a gentoo system with a RME multiface with PCMCIA. > (love this combo) > > I have a lot of problems getting a nice amount of gain from various > sources, namely keyboards/synths, guitars, and live mixing desks. > When i record into ardour the waveform is barely visable but i can > hear it. it is pretty useless unless i normalise it after recording. > this has been what i have been doing everytime i record something and > its becoming a very tedious and i feel it is bad practice. > i know that the multiface can have the internal gain changed to -10 +4 > but i don't think that is the issue as the equipment i am using is > nothing unusual. > > also, trying to get decent gain out of ardour is difficult to. the > strange thing is that when i play files in audacious/XMMS though jack > while ardour is running its REALLY loud. futhermore, when i import > external sound files on ardour and preview the sound in the dialog > box, once again its REALLY loud. > > could someone please explain to me what is happening. > > and yes, i have been using the HDSPmixer to alter gain however, i feel > that the resolution of the faders is a little weak. The input gain is _not_ affected by HDSPmixer. HDSP mixer handles the internal routing of your hdsp card. changing the input gain is about turning the gain button on your preamp/keyboard/foobar equipment. __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From rncbc at rncbc.org Tue Dec 5 05:28:58 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Tue Dec 5 05:32:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: > i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 > > could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. > that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. > also, is there a way that it could auto detect what sound card is plugged > in and load a preset accordingly. i use both my HDSP card and the onboard > ICH intel sound chip depending on where i am at or how > orgainised i am. but each card needs different priority and buffer setting > for jack to opperate properly. > > i would really like to have qjackctl startup with my window manager but > due to my flux in sound device decision, i currently end up with loads of > errors and jack complaing at me if the preset does not mach the device > loaded. > > perhaps this is a suggestion if there are no current work arounds. > seems like a suggestion to me because there's no way to automate the preset selection based on a (missing?) soundcard. I understand your worries but I'm affraid you have to live with it, for the time being. Qjackctl presets can only be changed manually. Remember of the complexity of the task in detecting which audio interface is eligible when you have all plugged in (for instance, I have 4 devices frequently connected, 1 onboard, 2 pci and 1 usb), even more if we're not alone with alsa backend devices, there's also OSS, portaudio, coreaudio, freebob, etc. Too much work, which seems an exercise on futility to me and at this time, and more than that, I'm just lazy ;) Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From fbar at footils.org Tue Dec 5 05:38:33 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Tue Dec 5 05:39:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <20061203094912.7d9312fe@mistral.stie> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> <20061203094912.7d9312fe@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <20061205103833.GQ8708@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, lanas hat gesagt: // lanas wrote: > And then, since at least 10 years now, Phish always let concert goers > record live shows (they had special front rows to do so) and distribute > the recordings all around no problemo. Maybe more bands should be doing > that. Grateful Dead anyone? They even sent a former member to fight for your right to the EFF. ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk Tue Dec 5 06:39:01 2006 From: tech at glastonburymusic.org.uk (tim hall) Date: Tue Dec 5 06:39:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Barenaked Ladies new release - downloadable, in FLAC, no copy protection In-Reply-To: <20061205103833.GQ8708@fliwatut.scifi> References: <5bdc1c8b0612021627n49cecb3gf78dabf47668ddae@mail.gmail.com> <20061203094912.7d9312fe@mistral.stie> <20061205103833.GQ8708@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <200612051139.02110.tech@glastonburymusic.org.uk> On Tuesday 05 December 2006 10:38, Frank Barknecht was like: > > And then, since at least 10 years now, Phish always let concert goers > > record live shows (they had special front rows to do so) and distribute > > the recordings all around no problemo. ?Maybe more bands should be doing > > that. > > Grateful Dead anyone? They even sent a former member to fight for your > right to the EFF. ;) Goes without saying, Phish are all DeadHeads aren't they? Shame all the SoundBoard recordings got pulled, but the Dead have still probably put out more free recordings than anyone and really promoted the idea. It's a great proof of concept even if you can't stand their music. I'm currently studying the early '80's, the two year period between Brent Mydland joining and Jerry getting back into smack produced some awesome gigs by anyone's standards. -- cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim We are the people We've been waiting for. From robin at gareus.org Tue Dec 5 07:53:51 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue Dec 5 07:54:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> Message-ID: <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: >> i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 >> >> could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. >> > > that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. sorry for hiJACKing the thread.. I experience some annoying behavior with qjackctl 0.2.21 Qt3.3.7 + gnome + metacity (debian/sid). anyone else too? I've "enabled system try icon" and "keep child windows always on top" in qjackctl settings. 1) if qjackctl starts up before the notification area in the panel it ends up on the first desktop... -> tweak startup order in gnome session properties helps, but I "always save my session" and the information is reset when I re-start qjackctl... ok I could live with that. 2) qjackctl does not appear in the any window list (any more) I can not "ALT-TAB" switch to qjackctl or its dialog windows! not even select it from the task bar. the qjackctl-Icon does not allow me to "raise" windows either. fi. if I toggle the connections dialog it sometimes appears behind other windows - has someone fixed this with Gconf? qjackctl? -> I devote some fixed workspace for qjackctl-connections, and learned to use jack_connect ;-P I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! many many thanks Rui! robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFdWuheVUk8U+VK0IRAkDcAJ4ifCIIJfWgw/Q9bNRoiDOYYo+vXgCfQdg+ qvH51GwiyEaSpCiLuQDyJyk= =Z0hV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mobarre at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 08:58:34 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Tue Dec 5 08:59:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> Message-ID: <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> > sorry for hiJACKing the thread.. > > I experience some annoying behavior with qjackctl 0.2.21 Qt3.3.7 + gnome > + metacity (debian/sid). anyone else too? > > I've "enabled system try icon" and "keep child windows always on top" > in qjackctl settings. > > 1) if qjackctl starts up before the notification area in the panel > it ends up on the first desktop... > > -> tweak startup order in gnome session properties helps, > but I "always save my session" and the information is reset > when I re-start qjackctl... ok I could live with that. It's annoying, but I never found a clean workaround. Though, if you look at demudi gnome startup scripts, they have "a sort of" workaround (waiting for the panel to be started). > 2) qjackctl does not appear in the any window list (any more) > I can not "ALT-TAB" switch to qjackctl or its dialog windows! > not even select it from the task bar. > the qjackctl-Icon does not allow me to "raise" windows either. > fi. if I toggle the connections dialog it sometimes appears behind > other windows > - has someone fixed this with Gconf? qjackctl? > -> I devote some fixed workspace for qjackctl-connections, and learned > to use jack_connect ;-P > I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! many many thanks Rui! I didn't have the issue with a recent qjackctl. -- __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de Tue Dec 5 09:08:51 2006 From: nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de (Nicolai Lissner) Date: Tue Dec 5 09:09:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20061205140851.GA24413@gnuffy01> On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 13:53:51 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: > I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! Well, "good" is a matter of taste here, but I like "patchage" From robin at gareus.org Tue Dec 5 09:20:13 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue Dec 5 09:20:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45757FDF.1050406@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> 2) qjackctl does not appear in the any window list (any more) >> I can not "ALT-TAB" switch to qjackctl or its dialog windows! >> not even select it from the task bar. >> the qjackctl-Icon does not allow me to "raise" windows either. >> fi. if I toggle the connections dialog it sometimes appears behind >> other windows >> - has someone fixed this with Gconf? qjackctl? >> -> I devote some fixed workspace for qjackctl-connections, and learned >> to use jack_connect ;-P >> I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! many many thanks Rui! > > I didn't have the issue with a recent qjackctl. just compiled qjackctl CVS HEAD (Version: 0.2.20.11) and everything works fine when I disable the "keep child windows on top" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFdX/feVUk8U+VK0IRAtmjAJ9dfpU3luAjx+LqY9q3ct7OxiRI6wCglEVs kJvOYRljjaDZx+BPOHVzK2M= =J4CE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Tue Dec 5 09:36:11 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Tue Dec 5 09:28:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux audio sites on the www In-Reply-To: <003001c6fcea$16f57650$0302a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <003001c6fcea$16f57650$0302a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457583DB.5020209@woh.rr.com> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >portal.linuxaudio.org > Since I won't be removing the site for a while you might want to add linux-sound.org to that list. Best, dp From rncbc at rncbc.org Tue Dec 5 09:52:21 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Tue Dec 5 09:55:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> Message-ID: <33969.194.65.103.1.1165330341.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> On Tue, December 5, 2006 12:53, Robin Gareus wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > >> On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: >> >>> i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 >>> >>> could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. >>> >> >> that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. > > sorry for hiJACKing the thread.. > > I experience some annoying behavior with qjackctl 0.2.21 Qt3.3.7 + gnome > + metacity (debian/sid). anyone else too? > > > I've "enabled system try icon" and "keep child windows always on top" > in qjackctl settings. > Yes, the "keep child windows always on top" option is the one you can tweak and try whether your particular WM sits confortably with qjackctl widgets or not. You can also try the latest CVS HEAD (qjackctl 0.2.21.1) where I've just added some missing hint that can have some impact thru the WM. OTOH please note that I'm a KDE believer, where everything works deterministically ;) unfortunately I have no time nor patience to test and run with anything else. Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Tue Dec 5 10:15:23 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Tue Dec 5 10:07:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <1165284968.30537.70.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <457449B7.8090007@sonaural.com> <1165284968.30537.70.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <45758D0B.2090006@woh.rr.com> Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: >(incf thanks) > >Thanks Dave, your musings will be sorely missed... > Well, I'm still maintaining my Linux audio blog for the Linux Journal. I write two entries per month there, another part of "what keeps Dave busy". Best, dp From markknecht at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 10:12:53 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Tue Dec 5 10:13:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612050712p71d6790bk1e84efd4d412de74@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > > sorry for hiJACKing the thread.. > > > > I experience some annoying behavior with qjackctl 0.2.21 Qt3.3.7 + gnome > > + metacity (debian/sid). anyone else too? > > > > I've "enabled system try icon" and "keep child windows always on top" > > in qjackctl settings. > > > > 1) if qjackctl starts up before the notification area in the panel > > it ends up on the first desktop... > > > > -> tweak startup order in gnome session properties helps, > > but I "always save my session" and the information is reset > > when I re-start qjackctl... ok I could live with that. > > It's annoying, but I never found a clean workaround. Though, if you > look at demudi gnome startup scripts, they have "a sort of" workaround > (waiting for the panel to be started). > > > 2) qjackctl does not appear in the any window list (any more) > > I can not "ALT-TAB" switch to qjackctl or its dialog windows! > > not even select it from the task bar. > > the qjackctl-Icon does not allow me to "raise" windows either. > > fi. if I toggle the connections dialog it sometimes appears behind > > other windows > > - has someone fixed this with Gconf? qjackctl? > > -> I devote some fixed workspace for qjackctl-connections, and learned > > to use jack_connect ;-P > > I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! many many thanks Rui! > > I didn't have the issue with a recent qjackctl. > > -- > __________________ > Marc-Olivier Barre, > Markinoko. > I haven't followed this thread. Not meaning to hi-jack too much but since you are using QJC on Gnome do you find that if QJC is running on a second Gnome workspace that when you go to any other workspace the QJC windows disappear from the workspace switcher? QJC is the only app I use that does this. Aqualung does this partially - it's Music Store and Playlist disappears but Aqualung itself still shows up in the workspace switcher. Anyway, just curious as to whether this is specific to my systems or a common way it works. Cheers, Mark From pw_lists at slinkp.com Tue Dec 5 10:15:13 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Tue Dec 5 10:16:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061205151513.GB7349@slinkp.com> On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:12:39AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are > doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at > all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use > them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. > Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to > continue working with it any longer. A heartfelt thanks for many years of an invaluable community service, Dave. I'm probably not alone in saying your site is what led me to be here. A toast to the host who brought the most! For my part, I apologize that I several times proposed an interactive replacement to the static site and never delivered anything. Sometimes I miss being underemployed :-) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From markknecht at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 10:29:55 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Tue Dec 5 10:30:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Linux Documentation (was Re: [Consortium] Re: Linuxaudio.org staff updates) In-Reply-To: <20061205151513.GB7349@slinkp.com> References: <003401c711d5$39da9100$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457448F7.1000507@woh.rr.com> <20061205151513.GB7349@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612050729y250be911jeacb48b970b12e78@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, Paul Winkler wrote: > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:12:39AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > > And let's face it, folks, http://linux-sound.org and its mirrors are > > doomed. I'm so tired of the maintenance that I'm just not doing any at > > all. I'd like to see the community take over the lists and perhaps use > > them as bases for a wiki catalog of Linux sound and music software. > > Meanwhile I plan for one more update this month, then I'm unlikely to > > continue working with it any longer. > > A heartfelt thanks for many years of an invaluable community service, > Dave. I'm probably not alone in saying your site is what led me to be > here. > > A toast to the host who brought the most! > > For my part, I apologize that I several times proposed an interactive > replacement to the static site and never delivered anything. Sometimes > I miss being underemployed :-) > > -- > > Paul Winkler Dave, You've made a HUGE contribution to Linux Audio over the years. Without out your help I personally wouldn't have made nearly as much progress. I am forever truly indebted to you. Thanks! Mark From robin at gareus.org Tue Dec 5 10:52:04 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue Dec 5 10:53:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612050712p71d6790bk1e84efd4d412de74@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612050712p71d6790bk1e84efd4d412de74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45759566.6050102@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mark Knecht wrote: > On 12/5/06, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> > sorry for hiJACKing the thread.. >> > >> > I experience some annoying behavior with qjackctl 0.2.21 Qt3.3.7 + >> gnome >> > + metacity (debian/sid). anyone else too? >> > >> > I've "enabled system try icon" and "keep child windows always on top" >> > in qjackctl settings. >> > >> > 1) if qjackctl starts up before the notification area in the panel >> > it ends up on the first desktop... >> > >> > -> tweak startup order in gnome session properties helps, >> > but I "always save my session" and the information is reset >> > when I re-start qjackctl... ok I could live with that. >> >> It's annoying, but I never found a clean workaround. Though, if you >> look at demudi gnome startup scripts, they have "a sort of" workaround >> (waiting for the panel to be started). >> >> > 2) qjackctl does not appear in the any window list (any more) >> > I can not "ALT-TAB" switch to qjackctl or its dialog windows! >> > not even select it from the task bar. >> > the qjackctl-Icon does not allow me to "raise" windows either. >> > fi. if I toggle the connections dialog it sometimes appears behind >> > other windows >> > - has someone fixed this with Gconf? qjackctl? >> > -> I devote some fixed workspace for qjackctl-connections, and learned >> > to use jack_connect ;-P >> > I have not seen any good alternative to qjackctl! many many thanks Rui! >> >> I didn't have the issue with a recent qjackctl. >> >> -- >> __________________ >> Marc-Olivier Barre, >> Markinoko. >> > > I haven't followed this thread. Not meaning to hi-jack too much but > since you are using QJC on Gnome do you find that if QJC is running on > a second Gnome workspace that when you go to any other workspace the > QJC windows disappear from the workspace switcher? I am confused: do you mean select "connection" from the QJC tray-icon. This will toggle the connection window. it it was displayed on a different workspace it will disappear there. > QJC is the only app I use that does this. I can not reproduce this here. gnome-workspace-switcher 2.14.3 always show qjackctl windows. unless when i enable the QJC setting "keep child windows always on top". then no QJC window is registered with gnome-taskbar, window-selector, etc. if I minimize all others, I can access (and resize) them. Turning this QJC option off, and everything works just fine with gnome. > Aqualung does this partially I'm not yet an Aqualung user so I can't tell. There's some magic that can be configured in the gnome-workspace switcher and global settings in gconf but I don't know about those. Applications can override setting too (xmms for example can become "always on top" - and "always on visible workspace" using some window manager protocol) > Anyway, just curious as to whether this is specific to my systems or > a common way it works. I guess most parts are common, but some issue evolve when upgrading software + mixing with old config files etc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFdZVmeVUk8U+VK0IRAsJRAJwPTn9oCIIpcuyXake9reHYPg0JnwCgusM0 8FCdh4JZgL5ENOAKhYwPznc= =kTl+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From markknecht at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 11:21:17 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Tue Dec 5 11:21:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <45759566.6050102@gareus.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <45756BA2.9080304@gareus.org> <3c808a150612050558m635887d0x20ae27ebfffd5369@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612050712p71d6790bk1e84efd4d412de74@mail.gmail.com> <45759566.6050102@gareus.org> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612050821m5afa3185pa7db0ca13f096648@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, Robin Gareus wrote: > > > QJC is the only app I use that does this. > > I can not reproduce this here. > gnome-workspace-switcher 2.14.3 always show qjackctl windows. > > unless when i enable the QJC setting "keep child windows always on top". > then no QJC window is registered with gnome-taskbar, window-selector, > etc. if I minimize all others, I can access (and resize) them. > > Turning this QJC option off, and everything works just fine with gnome. That's what I was looking for. Thanks. That option has been on forever. I no longer remember what it really does. Cheers, Mark From tsattler at gmx.de Tue Dec 5 16:10:46 2006 From: tsattler at gmx.de (Thomas Sattler) Date: Tue Dec 5 16:12:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams Message-ID: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> Hi there ... When watching a DVD one can sometimes select which language to listen to. I'm looking for a solution where I can playback a movie with two different languages at the *same* time: Most of my friends understand english quite well so we want to see a movie in its original tongue. Just one friend often needs translation so I would like to be able to listen to german translation with a headset. As I do not know of a player that can manage two different languages at the same time I thought of recording the DVD to harddisk, also record english and german audio and then mix both audio channels together. This could either be mixing each language to mono and combine them to a pseudo stereo containing a different language on the left or right channel. Or mixing two stereo channels to a pseudo surround sound, one language at the front the other at the rear. As written above I do not need to edit (cut or somehow modify) the streams. All I need is to remix them. Could you please give me a hint, which tool I can use for that? TIA Thomas -- keep mailinglists in english, feel free to send PM in german From mobarre at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 17:09:19 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Tue Dec 5 17:10:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> Message-ID: <3c808a150612051409p74fe10a7w7e1e67207092a360@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, Thomas Sattler wrote: > Hi there ... > > When watching a DVD one can sometimes select which language to listen > to. I'm looking for a solution where I can playback a movie with two > different languages at the *same* time: > > Most of my friends understand english quite well so we want to see a > movie in its original tongue. Just one friend often needs translation > so I would like to be able to listen to german translation with a > headset. > > As I do not know of a player that can manage two different languages at > the same time I thought of recording the DVD to harddisk, also record > english and german audio and then mix both audio channels together. > > This could either be mixing each language to mono and combine them to > a pseudo stereo containing a different language on the left or right > channel. Or mixing two stereo channels to a pseudo surround sound, one > language at the front the other at the rear. > > As written above I do not need to edit (cut or somehow modify) the > streams. All I need is to remix them. Could you please give me a hint, > which tool I can use for that? > You could use an audio editor like rezound, snd, audacity to make a 2 stereo track wave file, play it with patch the english part to your speekers, and the german part to the output where your head set is connected. There are also tools that allow you to sync video to audio played by jack (xjadeo could do the trick). But all that is maybe a bit too much just to enjoy a movie ;-) __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de Tue Dec 5 17:30:15 2006 From: nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de (Nicolai Lissner) Date: Tue Dec 5 17:30:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> Message-ID: <20061205223015.GA27782@gnuffy01> You might have a look at sox (which also comes with soxmix) - I'm not sure if it is actually able to mix two sources to different channels, but since you asked for a scriptable audio editor, sox has been the first thing that came in my mind, as it is scriptable as in shell script. Many people think of sox as just a tool to convert from one audio format to another, but actually sox can do *much* more and is probably the best choice when it comes to things that should be done more or less often. From tsattler at gmx.de Tue Dec 5 17:54:03 2006 From: tsattler at gmx.de (Thomas Sattler) Date: Tue Dec 5 17:56:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <20061205223015.GA27782@gnuffy01> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> <20061205223015.GA27782@gnuffy01> Message-ID: <20061205225403.GA10651@nancy.sattler.local> Hi again ... > You might have a look at sox (which also comes with soxmix) - I'm not sure > if it is actually able to mix two sources to different channels, but since > you asked for a scriptable audio editor, sox has been the first thing that > came in my mind, as it is scriptable as in shell script. I've read the manpage two times now. soxmix is able to mix two different audio files into one but all I got until now is both languages totally mixed up in a stereo file. Maybe sox is unable to seperate them, maybe my english is just not good enough to understand the manpage. Cheers Thomas -- keep mailinglists in english, feel free to send PM in german From tsattler at gmx.de Tue Dec 5 18:01:40 2006 From: tsattler at gmx.de (Thomas Sattler) Date: Tue Dec 5 18:03:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612051409p74fe10a7w7e1e67207092a360@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> <3c808a150612051409p74fe10a7w7e1e67207092a360@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061205230140.GB10651@nancy.sattler.local> Hi again ... > But all that is maybe a bit too much just to enjoy a movie ;-) Isn't there a simple tool that can combine two stereo files into a four channel front'n'rear file? Or at least combine two mono files into left and right channels of a stereo file? puzzled, Thomas -- keep mailinglists in english, feel free to send PM in german From nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de Tue Dec 5 18:05:24 2006 From: nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de (Nicolai Lissner) Date: Tue Dec 5 18:05:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <20061205225403.GA10651@nancy.sattler.local> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> <20061205223015.GA27782@gnuffy01> <20061205225403.GA10651@nancy.sattler.local> Message-ID: <20061205230524.GA32633@gnuffy01> On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 23:54:03 +0100, Thomas Sattler wrote: > I've read the manpage two times now. soxmix is able to mix two different > audio files into one but all I got until now is both languages totally > mixed up in a stereo file. Maybe sox is unable to seperate them, maybe > my english is just not good enough to understand the manpage. You might need to do this in two steps - a first step to put both channels of one language to only 1 channel, a second step to mix both channels. I think the effect "avg" might help. From peters_user at hotmail.com Tue Dec 5 18:05:58 2006 From: peters_user at hotmail.com (Pete C) Date: Tue Dec 5 18:06:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Applications for Automated Audio Analysis Message-ID: >From 8am-11pm I am recording the audio from a lecture theatre. I want to be able to programatically and/or visually identify when the lecture theatre is in use -- the audio feed is silent when not in use. I don't know what tools could do this. Here are my ideas/desires (the first two are preferable): -- Every 20 seconds, take a numerical reading of the amplitude level currently being captured, like a "VU meter" with a "data logger" attached. (This number would then be saved to a database along with a timestamp and later processed -- the saving is the easy bit, it's just getting that number.) I know ecasignalview shows the current level but it requires: ecasound, ncurses (not possible to automatically grab relevant output so useless here), and an open audio device (disadvantage). -- After 11pm, process the audio file and record the amplitude level every few seconds to a database. -- Continually save a "spectrum analysis" of the live stream as an image (eg. JPG) that could be viewed at any time. -- After 11pm, get a "spectrum analysis" of the whole static file and save it as an image (eg. JPG). The file is AAC within MP4, but I could convert it to a compatible format (eg. WAV) with FAAD just for the analysis if necessary. I don't think this could be done via an X GUI application as it needs to be automated. Do you know which application(s) will help in these situations? Many thanks! - pete <>< _________________________________________________________________ It's Hotmail's 10th Birthday! Come and play Pass the Parcel http://www.msnpasstheparcel.com From handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com Tue Dec 5 18:16:13 2006 From: handstandnosemanual at hotmail.com (Glen Kirkup) Date: Tue Dec 5 18:16:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run onreal-timekernelwhile works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From: "Nick Copeland" >Reply-To: A list for linux audio users > >To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu >Subject: RE: [linux-audio-user] Bristol segfaults when run >onreal-timekernelwhile works >Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:43:23 +0100 > >Hi Glen, > >>I've found that using the -jack option with any other option while jack is >>running is what causes both './startBristol: line 188: [: too many >>arguments' and the program choosing port 0 by default. When running in the >>non-RT kernel, where Bristol works as expected, gives './startBristol: >>line 188: [: too many arguments' when jack is running and -jack with any >>other option is used, though selects the correct default port and works >>fine. > >This may be an issue with the RT options? If jack is not running when you >start bristol then the jack API will start it using the current user ID and >permissions, and the bristol engine can connect to it. If the daemon is >already running then you need sufficient privileges to connect, and you may >have differences between the RT and non-RT systems. If the engine fails to >connect then it will exit gracefully, and, in the release you have, if the >brighton GUI fals to connect to bristol it exits rather ungracefully. This >exit is now a little nicer, but the issue remains the failure of bristol to >link to jack, I think. > >What happens if you start bristol as root? I will look into the error >message on line 188, I don't think it is the cause, just a syntax error in >the wrapper script. > >Regards, >Nick. > Thanks for the reply. I always use the RT kernel as root as I have not got realtime-lsm installed for user real-time, so I was starting both jack and bristol in a terminal as root to find the results. The same segfault happens when logged in as a user on that kernel. I wonder what it could be? Glen _________________________________________________________________ It's Hotmail's 10th Birthday! Come and play Pass the Parcel http://www.msnpasstheparcel.com From nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de Tue Dec 5 18:18:39 2006 From: nlissne at linux01.gwdg.de (Nicolai Lissner) Date: Tue Dec 5 18:19:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Applications for Automated Audio Analysis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061205231839.GA13877@gnuffy01> Hi Pete, This might become useful for you: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~njh/silentjack/ SilentJack allow you to run abitrary commands on silence detection. From gateswideopen at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 19:16:29 2006 From: gateswideopen at gmail.com (we are) Date: Tue Dec 5 19:17:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> Message-ID: <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> On 12/5/06, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > > On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: > > i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 > > > > could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. > > > > that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. i know this is slightly trivial... sorry. i'm using enlightenment 17 and fluxbox but the however the iconify button is absent in both. > > > also, is there a way that it could auto detect what sound card is plugged > > in and load a preset accordingly. i use both my HDSP card and the onboard > > ICH intel sound chip depending on where i am at or how > > orgainised i am. but each card needs different priority and buffer setting > > for jack to opperate properly. > > > > i would really like to have qjackctl startup with my window manager but > > due to my flux in sound device decision, i currently end up with loads of > > errors and jack complaing at me if the preset does not mach the device > > loaded. > > > > perhaps this is a suggestion if there are no current work arounds. > > > perhaps a startup script is possible to detect the soundcard attached and then load a preset accordingly.... ie qjackctl -p --preset=$hdsp or $ICH needless to say i will have to learn a bit more about scripting but if there are any script wizards out there, are there any simple lines that people could suggest off the top of their heads. cheers From perodog at gmx.net Tue Dec 5 19:48:53 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Tue Dec 5 19:48:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45761375.8060408@gmx.net> we are wrote: > On 12/5/06, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> >> On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: >> > i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 >> > >> > could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. >> > >> >> that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. > > i know this is slightly trivial... sorry. > > i'm using enlightenment 17 and fluxbox but the however the iconify > button is absent in both. > > >> >> > also, is there a way that it could auto detect what sound card is >> plugged >> > in and load a preset accordingly. i use both my HDSP card and the >> onboard >> > ICH intel sound chip depending on where i am at or how >> > orgainised i am. but each card needs different priority and buffer >> setting >> > for jack to opperate properly. >> > >> > i would really like to have qjackctl startup with my window manager >> but >> > due to my flux in sound device decision, i currently end up with >> loads of >> > errors and jack complaing at me if the preset does not mach the device >> > loaded. >> > >> > perhaps this is a suggestion if there are no current work arounds. >> > >> > > perhaps a startup script is possible to detect the soundcard attached > and then load a preset accordingly.... ie > > qjackctl -p --preset=$hdsp or $ICH > > needless to say i will have to learn a bit more about scripting but if > there are any script wizards out there, are there any simple lines > that people could suggest off the top of their heads. > > cheers > hi people, me i just wanted to report that with the new cvs for me the problem qjack appearing in fluxbox without deco is solved now! thx rui and cheers, doc From ardour at semiosix.com Wed Dec 6 03:14:17 2006 From: ardour at semiosix.com (John Anderson) Date: Wed Dec 6 03:13:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Intel 965 boards - 2.6.19-rt1 patch for Marvell PATA controller Message-ID: <1165392857.30515.19.camel@groovious.semiosix.local> Hi y'all I finally managed to get my Intel 965 motherboard (DG965WH) working nicely - accelerated graphics, talking to all drives. I'm using 2.6.19-rt1 and this patch that I pulled out of the mm tree. The patch applies to 2.6.19-rt6 as well, but I haven't rebooted to that yet. I hope someone finds this useful. bye John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pata-marvell.diff Type: text/x-patch Size: 6682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061206/c2be2727/pata-marvell.bin From kvehmanen at eca.cx Wed Dec 6 04:28:28 2006 From: kvehmanen at eca.cx (Kai Vehmanen) Date: Wed Dec 6 04:32:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: <20061205230140.GB10651@nancy.sattler.local> References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> <3c808a150612051409p74fe10a7w7e1e67207092a360@mail.gmail.com> <20061205230140.GB10651@nancy.sattler.local> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Thomas Sattler wrote: >> But all that is maybe a bit too much just to enjoy a movie ;-) > Isn't there a simple tool that can combine two stereo files into a > four channel front'n'rear file? Or at least combine two mono files > into left and right channels of a stereo file? Let's see... # 1. two stereo files into 4ch file (out1234.wav) ecasound \ -a:c1 -i in12.wav \ -a:c2 -i in34.wav -erc:1,3 -eac:0,1 -erc:2,4 -eac:0,2 \ -a:c1,c2 -o out1234.wav -z:mixmode,sum # 2. two stereo files mixed to left and right channels of a # single stereo output (out12.wav) ecasound -a:c1 -i in12.wav -erm:1 -eac:0,2 \ -a:c2 -i in34.wav -erm:2 -eac:0,1 \ -a:c1,c2 -o out12.wav -z:mixmode,sum -- links, my public keys, etc at http://eca.cx/kv From plessas at mur.at Wed Dec 6 07:44:11 2006 From: plessas at mur.at (Peter Plessas) Date: Wed Dec 6 06:45:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Applications for Automated Audio Analysis Message-ID: <4576BB1B.2070802@mur.at> I am quite sure that PureData is the tool you are looking for! Getting the amplitude value at certain moments and storing them to a table (storage in pd-speak) is a very easy thing. Recording could also been done within Pd, in .wav format and then be encoded by a shell command such as oggenc. I am not sure howto implement the image (.jpg) display right now, but it can't be too hard and is possible for sure (using the Pd-addon library Gem) good luck, post again for more questions if you like! lg,Peter From nescivi at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 10:08:10 2006 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Wed Dec 6 10:20:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Reminder::Linux Audio Conference #5 (LAC2007): Call for Papers - Music Message-ID: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> Dear all, this is the second call for papers for the 5th Linux Audio Developers Conference (LAC2007). This is a reminder since some people might not have received the last call or might just have forgotten about the deadlines by now (08 Jan 2007 : Deadline for submission of papers, worshops, tutorials, demos, hands on demos and music). The conference is organized by the TU-Berlin in cooperation with people of the Linux Audio Developers mailing list, the music festival Inventionen 2007 and the Humboldt University of Berlin. The LAC2007 is taking place at the TU-Berlin, Germany from the 22nd - 25th of March 2007. We have introduced some new tracks. Besides the category for papers, demos and workshops, calls for tutorials and hands on demos have been added. The tutorials aim is to give new (potential) users an overview of the possibilities of Linux Audio Software and how to get started. The LAC2007 provides a computer pool (LA Pool) where developers can give an introduction to their software and where participants can try out Linux Audio Software during the conference. This has been combined in the call hands on demos. Since the TU-Berlin is installing a new Wave Field Synthesis (WFS) system the call for music has been extended by a call for compositions for this system. Music that can be used for radio airplay can be submitted, and will after acceptance by the Campusradio of the TU Berlin, be played during the conference. More detailed Information can be found in the 'Call for Papers' attached to this email or on the website at: www.lac.tu-berlin.de We are looking forward to many interesting submissions for the Linux Audio Conference 2007 and hope to see you in Berlin in 2007! Please feel free to forward this email to anybody who is interested. On behalf of the LAC2007 organisation team, Marije Baalman and Simon Schampijer -------------- next part -------------- Call for the Linux Audio Conference 2007 - 22nd - 25th of March 2007 taking place at the Technische Universität Berlin in cooperation with Inventionen 2007 and the Humboldt University of Berlin This call includes: Call for Papers Call for Demos Call for Hands On Demos Call for Workshops Call for Tutorials Call for Music (categories: Concert, Club, Radio and Wave Field Synthesis) ----------------------------- Call for Papers We invite submissions of papers addressing all areas of audio processing based on Linux and open source software. Papers can focus on technical, artistic or scientific issues and can target developers or users. This includes (but is not limited to) the following categories: Computer Music Music Production Instruments Drivers and Sound Architecture Audio Distributions Generic (Usage, Documentation etc.) The conference is held in English. Length of a paper is 4-8 pages. Papers have to include an abstract (50-100 words). The abstract will be published separately on the conference website once the paper has been accepted. Also, papers should include up to 5 keywords. In general talks should take 20-30 minutes followed by 5 minutes discussion. Please notify us if you need a special technical setup. The technical standard setup will be: microphone (head set) projector with XVGA input (resolution 1024x768) stereo speaker setup with mini jack input a PC with a pdf viewer How to submit File format is PDF, formatted for A4 paper. Make use of the templates for paper formatting available at: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~lac2007/download/templates-lac2007.tar.gz See our check list to ensure that you do not forget to enclose all necessary information. Send your paper and all necessary information by 8 Jan 2007 via email to this address: lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de You will be notified by 05 Feb 2007 whether your paper has been accepted. The reviewers may ask you to modify your paper in order to be accepted. The deadline for the final version is March 1, 2007. Important Dates 08 Jan 2007: Paper submission deadline 05 Feb 2007: Notification of acceptance 01 Mar 2007: Final version deadline 22 - 25 March 2007: Conference ----------------------------- Call for Demos You do not need to write a whole paper, but rather a short abstract only (50-100 words). This category is mainly thought for software demos. Be aware though that in case of too many submissions papers take priority over demos... See section "Call for Papers" for info on the duration of talks and the technical setup. ----------------------------- Call for Hands On Demos A new item of the LAC 2007 is LA Pool: a pool with Linux audio computers, on which programs can be demonstrated. To give a "hands on" demo you can reserve LA Pool for 1 hour, of which ca. 20 minutes can be used as a general introduction and the rest should be free for participants to try out the program and ask questions. A Hands On demo can be held in addition to a Paper Presentation or as the presentation for the Demo, so you need to either submit a paper or an abstract as mentioned above. Additionally, you need to give us a version of your software, with clear installation instructions and requirements, so that we can install the software on the Pool before the conference. How to submit See our check list to ensure that you do not forget to enclose all necessary information. Send your abstract and all necessary information by 8 Jan 2007 via email to this address: lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de Deadline for submissions is 08 Jan 2007. You will be notified by 05 Feb 2007 whether your submission has been accepted. ----------------------------- Call for Workshops With respect to their content workshops do not differ from talks: Workshops can have technical focus as well as artistic or scientific focus. Workshops can be targeted to developers as well as users. See section "Call for Papers" for more info on this. The shape of the workshop is completely up to you. E.g. it can be tutorial-like ("how to write an ALSA driver/ a jack application/ a LADSPA plugin/ etc.") or it can be BOFS-like (e.g. a meeting of like-minded users and/or developers to exchange experience and knowledge about a specific topic), or it can be anything in between. Workshops can take place in seminar rooms or in a public space like the TU Lichthof. Depending on the location, attendance might be limited to ca 10 people. We strongly encourage you to submit early. It will be more likely to get a free slot and it will be easier for attendants to know about the workshop if it is published on the conference website. If you expect the attendants to prepare their laptops for your workshop (e.g. by installing some software) or if there are other requirements, please note so in your abstract. How to submit: See our check list to ensure that you do not forget to enclose all necessary information. Send an abstract (ca. 50-100 words) and all necessary information via email to this address: lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de The abstract will be published on the conference website once the workshop has been accepted (not before 01 March 2007 though). Submission deadline is 05 Feb 2007. You will be notified by 01 March 2007 whether your submission has been accepted. ----------------------------- Call for Tutorials New in this edition of the Linux Audio Conference will be a Tutorial track for new users. This Tutorial track will be hosted by the Media Science Department of the Humboldt University of Berlin. Proposals for additions to this Tutorial program are welcome. The aim of this Tutorial track is to give new (potential) users an overview of the possibilities of Linux Audio Software and how to get started. The difference to workshops is that the tutorials are given in a lecture environment and should focus on how to make music with Linux, more than going into specifics of certain programs. The tutorial track is supported by the LA Pool facility as attendants can try out the software themselves with hands on support. Send a short description of your proposed Tutorial topic (ca. 50-100 words), via email to this address: lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de Submission deadline is 08 Jan 2007. You will be notified by 05 Feb 2007 whether your submission has been accepted. Criteria will be based upon creating a full fledged Tutorial program for Linux Audio. ----------------------------- Call for Music The conference will include several concerts. We are looking for music that has been produced completely or mostly under Linux and/or with open source software: Serious compositions, Electronica, Chill-Out, Ambient etc. Indicate whether you want to have your piece played in a concert like environment or a club like environment. Additionally you can submit Radio music (see below) and Wave Field Synthesis music (see also below). Additionally you are welcome to give a talk about your piece. We encourage you especially to show how you made the piece using open source software. Please send a short abstract (ca. 50-100 words) if you want to give a talk. If you want to participate, send your composition(s) to this address: LAC2007 - Call for Music Institute of Communications Research Sekretariat EN 8 Einsteinufer 17 D-10587 Berlin Germany Make use of one of the following media formats: Media: Audio-CD, DVD, DVD-R or CD-R File formats: aiff or wav Channels: mono, stereo, multi-channel and multi-mono (8 channels is no problem, more than 8 must be discussed). Samplerate: 44.1 or 48 kHz Resolution: 16 or 24 bit Include the following items with your submission (in English): A filled-out and signed printout of the form available here: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~lac2007/download/musicagreement.pdf For the printed program and to be published online and on the conference CD, in continuous text (no table or list please): A short commentary on the composition(s) (each ca. 150 words) A short Curriculum Vitae (ca. 100 words) Deadline for submissions is 08 Jan 2007. A jury will select the compositions that will be performed/played. Furthermore, the jury will give out three prices to participants to contribute to their travel expenses. Besides artistic criteria and technical reasons, these criteria apply for the selection: Tape pieces or pieces which are performed by the composers themselves will generally have more chances to get included. If we get more pieces than we can include in the program, composers who are attending the conference are preferred. Terms and conditions for participation can be found in the form mentioned above. This form includes among other things: I will receive no fees whether my composition is played or not. GEMA fees (in case of performance) will be paid by the organizer. The material I send to the TU Berlin will not be returned. Additionally to this Call for Music, during the late night concerts there will be an open stage: "Plug & Chill - The Linux Jam Nights" where attendants of the conference are invited to perform their pieces in a more club-like context. There is no deadline for this, so people can decide during the conference if they want to participate. However if you already know that you want to participate do not hesitate to inform us. Send us an email to lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de and include a description of your equipment and a short characterization of your music (keywords only). During the conference it is possible to register at the info desk. Note that there is a time limit for "Plug & Chill". If we have received too many registrations already you might not get a slot. Contributions to "Plug & Chill" should not exceed 10 min. There will be a room at the TU Berlin where people can meet during the conference and rehearse for "Plug & Chill". ----------------------------- Radio Music A new category in the Music call is the call for music that can be used for radio airplay. In cooperation with the Campusradio (http://www.campusradio-online.de) of the TU Berlin, who will do a live report on the conference, we invite composers, musicians and producers of Music made or recorded and mastered with Open Source tools, to submit their works. If you want to participate, send an email to: lac2007-radio AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de with a link to your audio files. Alternately, send your music to the address above, with the addition: LAC2007 - Call for Music Radio Make use of one of the following media formats: Media: Audio-CD, DVD, DVD-R or CD-R File formats: aiff or wav or ogg Channels: mono or stereo Samplerate: 44.1 or 48 kHz Resolution: 16 or 24 bit Include the following items with your submission (in English): A filled-out and signed printout of the form available here (sent by mail, or by fax to: +49 30 31421143): http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~lac2007/download/musicagreement.pdf Deadline for submissions is 05 Feb 2007. The choice of which pieces are played is in the hands of the Campusradio crew. A program listing will be on their website http://www.campusradio-online.de shortly before the conference. ----------------------------- Wave Field Synthesis Music Shortly before the conference, a new Wave Field Synthesis (WFS) system will be installed in one of the lecture halls of the TU Berlin. We are looking for composers who are interested in creating a composition for this system or who have already written pieces for WFS, which could be played on the system. The WFS system will be based on the sWONDER software (http://swonder.sourceforge.net), and can be controlled by OSC. For more information, please contact us at lac2007 AT robin.kgw.tu-berlin.de As there is no standard format for WFS material yet, we ask for a elaborate description of the piece and some examples of previous works. To prepare the piece for performance, it will be necessary for the composer to be present a few days before the conference. We will support efforts to get funding for this from external organizations (such as DAAD). Send your material to this address: LAC2007 - Call for WFS Music Institute of Communications Research Sekretariat EN 8 Einsteinufer 17 D-10587 Berlin Germany Make use of one of the following media formats: Media: Audio-CD, DVD, DVD-R or CD-R File formats: aiff or wav Channels: mono, stereo, multi-channel and multi-mono (8 channels is no problem, more than 8 must be discussed). Samplerate: 44.1 or 48 kHz Resolution: 16 or 24 bit Include the following items with your submission (in English): A filled-out and signed printout of the form available on: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~lac2007/download/musicagreement.pdf For the printed program and to be published online and on the conference CD, in continuous text (no table or list please): A short commentary on the composition(s) (each ca. 150 words) A short Curriculum Vitae (ca. 100 words) Deadline for submissions is 08 Jan 2007. Terms and conditions for participation can be found in the form mentioned above. This form includes among other things: I will receive no fees whether my composition is played or not. GEMA fees (in case of performance) will be paid by the organizer. The material I send to the TU Berlin will not be returned. From smcameron at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 12:02:34 2006 From: smcameron at yahoo.com (Stephen Cameron) Date: Wed Dec 6 12:02:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] ecasound question with RME hammerfall lite. Message-ID: <20061206170234.42033.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm trying to record multiple tracks at once from my RME Hammerfall lite, just to transfer from my AW4416 to PC, the stereo tracks are already recorded on the AW4416, I just want to transfer them both at once. Is this the right way to do it? ecasound -r -c -a:1,2 -i jack -o guitar.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o drums.wav Then, type "engine-launch" to ecasound, then (via qjackctl) connect RME capture channels 1-4 to ecasound inputs 1-4 (assuming audio is coming in on channels 1-4). Then type "start" in ecasound, and start playback on the aw4416. So far by this method, I'm capturing only silence, but I suspect this is a mistake I'm making on the AW4416 with routing audio to the ADAT outputs. Just want to make sure I'm using ecasound in the correct way to accomplish what I'm trying to do. -- steve ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From soulsource at cox.net Wed Dec 6 16:49:00 2006 From: soulsource at cox.net (Natalia Rakowski) Date: Wed Dec 6 16:49:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] RE: Interview with EnergyXT Developer In-Reply-To: <4560F324.1050305@hawaii.rr.com> References: <001401c70c0f$201be410$0302a8c0@64BitBadass> <4560F324.1050305@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <70B3DBC5-3CE7-427D-A56F-80D28FEEBD9D@cox.net> Hello all - I'm writing an article for Computer Music Magazine (U.K.) about the EnergyXT Linux port. I'm looking to get reactions from the Linux audio user and developer community about it -- particularly with respect to the fact that this software will not be free and not be open source... If you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on this topic, please e- mail me directly at this address: natalia47gmailcom. Thanks! -- Natalia On Nov 19, 2006, at 7:13 PM, david wrote: > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >>> I think it boils down to vst plugin developers not having much >>> interest >>> in linux audio. Thats where the work needs to be done I think. >> Well, for them to have interest, there has to be a viable market, and >> currently there isn't--we are too small and too involved in the >> free as in >> free speech concepts (please do not get me wrong, I am totally for >> this kind >> of an approach, I am simply trying to depict the reasoning behind >> this >> apparent lack of interest). Hence, the only way they will ever >> consider our >> market is if we find someone who is: >> 1) sympathetic >> 2) willing to invest *little* time to recompile their work for Linux > > And Linux people who will pay for it. If the Linux product is free, > their customers may start to say. "Hmmm, why am I paying for the > Windows version when I can use the Lunix version for free???" > > -- > David > gnome@hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Wed Dec 6 17:31:25 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Wed Dec 6 17:24:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux soundapps site final update Message-ID: <457744BD.1050402@woh.rr.com> Greetings: As I announced on the LAD/LAU mail lists I will soon put a new edition of linux-sound.org online. This one will be the last edition for the foreseeable future. I hope to see the community take over the site and its maintenance, but for this last publication I have a request for all developers: If you have any software listed on http://linux-sound.org please take a look to see if your preferred URL is listed. If you have software you would like to see listed there, send me its URL as soon as possible. Ditto for logos. I'm going through every page on the site, culling dead links and correcting bad addresses. It takes time, so I'll be putting up the corrected pages over the next week or so. The latest New Additions is already up, and I've already corrected some pages (dsp.html took all day today), but I'll delay an official announcement until all pages have been emended. The site will remain online and unmaintained until it's replaced by something better or I just get tired of looking at it. So, send corrections, logos, etc. to me directly at dlphillips@woh.rr.com if you'd like your stuff listed so people might actually find it. :) Best, dp From tsattler at gmx.de Wed Dec 6 18:05:48 2006 From: tsattler at gmx.de (Thomas Sattler) Date: Wed Dec 6 18:13:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] scriptable audio editor to (parallel) combine streams In-Reply-To: References: <20061205211046.GA4057@nancy.sattler.local> <3c808a150612051409p74fe10a7w7e1e67207092a360@mail.gmail.com> <20061205230140.GB10651@nancy.sattler.local> Message-ID: <20061206230548.GA6213@nancy.sattler.local> Hi Kai! Seems ecasound is the tool I was looking for. Thanks a lot! Just one comment: handling of ogg files seems to be somewhat buggy. Example: filename length size ogg-size (oggenc -q-1) 128.wav 0:29:09 321MB 8.7MB 129.wav 0:29:09 321MB 8.6MB 2x stereo -> 2x mono (left/right) oggenc(ecasound(128.wav, 129.wav)) -> 0:29:09, 9.9MB (perfekt) 2x stereo -> 2x stereo (front/rear) oggenc(ecasound(128.wav, 129.wav)) -> 0:29:09, 8.7MB (also perfekt) but 2x stereo -> 2x mono (left/right) ecasound(oggenc(128.wav), oggenc(129.wav)) -> 0:31:33, 30MB (bad) 2x stereo -> 2x stereo (front/rear) ecasound(oggenc(128.wav), oggenc(129.wav)) -> 0:31:32, 21M (also bad) Difference in size may be du to "oggenc -q -1", which is acceptable but difference in length is bad. Thomas P.S.: Tested with ecasound v2.4.3 and v2.4.4 on Gentoo Linux -- keep mailinglists in english, feel free to send PM in german From smcameron at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 23:26:11 2006 From: smcameron at yahoo.com (Stephen Cameron) Date: Wed Dec 6 23:45:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] ecasound question with RME hammerfall lite. In-Reply-To: <20061206170234.42033.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <933102.54003.qm@web33013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I sorted out the routing problems within my AW4416, so now I can record multiple tracks from the AW4416 to the PC via ecasound and JACK, but, still having a bit of trouble. My procedure so far is: # start ecasound, as for example: (as root) ecasound -c -r -b:128 -a:1,2 -i jack -o drums.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o guitar.wav (JACK is also running as root) * Type "engine-launch" in ecasound. * In qjackctl, on the connections screen, connect the hammerfall's capture channels (corresponding to AW4416 busses) to ecasound's inputs. * Type "start" in ecasound, and start playback on the AW4416. This works, but it seems small sections of the audio are being dropped here and there, so the result is that the transferred data is mostly correct, but is kind of "jumpy" as it skips these apparently dropped sections, which are short, but definitely noticeable. I suppose it could be some issue with my OS, scheduling, etc., or possibly cable problems. That latter I can rule out by moving my computer, and using different, shorter cables, I guess. (Haven't done that yet.) -- steve --- Stephen Cameron wrote: > > I'm trying to record multiple tracks at once from my RME Hammerfall lite, > just to transfer from my AW4416 to PC, the stereo tracks are already recorded > on the AW4416, I just want to transfer them both at once. > > Is this the right way to do it? > > ecasound -r -c -a:1,2 -i jack -o guitar.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o drums.wav > > Then, type "engine-launch" to ecasound, > > then (via qjackctl) connect RME capture channels 1-4 to ecasound inputs 1-4 > (assuming audio is coming in on channels 1-4). > > Then type "start" in ecasound, and start playback on the aw4416. > > So far by this method, I'm capturing only silence, but I suspect > this is a mistake I'm making on the AW4416 with routing audio to > the ADAT outputs. > > Just want to make sure I'm using ecasound in the correct way > to accomplish what I'm trying to do. > > -- steve > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kvehmanen at eca.cx Thu Dec 7 03:10:03 2006 From: kvehmanen at eca.cx (Kai Vehmanen) Date: Thu Dec 7 03:13:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] ecasound question with RME hammerfall lite. In-Reply-To: <933102.54003.qm@web33013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <933102.54003.qm@web33013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Stephen Cameron wrote: > Well, I sorted out the routing problems within my AW4416, > so now I can record multiple tracks from the AW4416 to the > PC via ecasound and JACK, but, still having a bit of trouble. that's good to here! Let's move on to the other issues: > ecasound -c -r -b:128 -a:1,2 -i jack -o drums.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o guitar.wav This will work, but some notes: - you don't need to give "-r" (automatic if sufficient privileges) or "-b:128" (learned from jackd) - the routing is somewhat wrong, as chains 1-4 (defined with -a) are by default all stereo, so you for instance end up routing audio from "-i jack" (two channels) to two stereo chains (2x2 channels) which are again mixed back to "drums.wav" (again two channel) What you probably wanted is (mono track for drums and guitar) sh> ecasound -c -f:32,1,44100 -a:drums -i jack -o drums.wav -a:guitar -i jack -o guitar.wav More info about ecasound's JACK support and the routing logic can be found at: http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/users_guide/html_uguide/users_guide.html#htoc50 http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/ecasound_manpage.html (search for JACK) If you want to play with JACK and ecasound, try also ecasignalview: ecasignalview jack_alsa null ecasignalview jack null ecasignalview jack_alsa foo.wav ecasignalview -f:32,12,44100 jack_alsa jack_alsa ... and do use also other tools (like 'timemachine') to make sure the problem is not in a bad installation/bug in ecasound. > This works, but it seems small sections of the audio are > being dropped here and there, so the result is that the > transferred data is mostly correct, but is kind of "jumpy" > as it skips these apparently dropped sections, which are > short, but definitely noticeable. I suppose it could be > some issue with my OS, scheduling, etc., or possibly > cable problems. That latter I can rule out by moving > my computer, and using different, shorter cables, I guess. My first guess this is trouble with the JACK settings (too low latency settings for your current system and how it is configured). I'd recommend trying witCh slightly larger settings of jackd period size and retry the tests. Simply connect your soundcard inputs back to its outputs with qjackctl and verify that the audio is ok (make sure any analog loopbacks are disabled -> you don't hear any audio from the outputs until you connected them with qjackctl). Some tips on how to debug/trace JACK performance can be found for instance at: - http://jackaudio.org/faq - http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/installtwosix.html#SECTION000201000000000000000 -- links, my public keys, etc at http://eca.cx/kv From renatoftato at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 05:18:43 2006 From: renatoftato at yahoo.com (Renato Fabbri) Date: Thu Dec 7 05:18:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Python and Jack Message-ID: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am trying to output some audio through jack using the sndobj library. I get only a short beep.. Usind the sndobj library on python, pysndobj, here is a simple case of what, in my head, should output a left channel sinusoid for 3s: ___ from sndobj import * import time tab = HarmTable() osc = Oscili(tab, 440,16000) jack = SndJackIO('theremin') jack.SetOutput(1, osc) osc.DoProcess() jack.Write() time.sleep(3) del jack del osc _________ help? renf ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. From smcameron at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 09:45:54 2006 From: smcameron at yahoo.com (Stephen Cameron) Date: Thu Dec 7 09:47:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] ecasound question with RME hammerfall lite. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <282519.84866.qm@web33012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kai, thanks for the reply. I have a few more questions. --- Kai Vehmanen wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Stephen Cameron wrote: [...] > > > ecasound -c -r -b:128 -a:1,2 -i jack -o drums.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o guitar.wav > > This will work, but some notes: > > - you don't need to give "-r" (automatic if sufficient privileges) or > "-b:128" (learned from jackd) > - the routing is somewhat wrong, as chains 1-4 (defined with -a) are > by default all stereo, so you for instance end up routing audio from > "-i jack" (two channels) to two stereo chains (2x2 channels) which > are again mixed back to "drums.wav" (again two channel) This confuses me. In qjackctl's connections screen, I see 18 capture channels on the RME. My impression is that these are mono, not stereo. I need to capture 4 of those channels, two for drums, two for guitar. When I start ecasound like this: > ecasound -c -r -b:128 -a:1,2 -i jack -o drums.wav -a:3,4 -i jack -o guitar.wav Then ecasound has 4 inputs that I can connect the 4 capture channels to. Maybe it is the "-i jack" listed twice that makes 4 input channels on ecasound? Previously I had tried something like: > ecasound -c -r -a:1,2,3,4 -i jack -a:1,2 -o guitar.wav -a:3,4 drums.wav and that didn't work, I got two input channels on ecasound, and well, that wasn't what I needed, so I was kind of thrashing around a bit trying to discover just what all the options really do. (I did read the man page, it's how I've gotten as far as I have, but it's rather succinct. :-) > > What you probably wanted is (mono track for drums and guitar) Actually, I need stereo for drums and stereo for guitar, and generally I'll be wanting to transfer up to 4 stereo tracks at once, or any combo of stereo and mono totalling up to 8 captured channels (I have just 1 ADAT connection from the AW4416, so, 8 mono channels.) > sh> ecasound -c -f:32,1,44100 -a:drums -i jack -o drums.wav -a:guitar -i jack -o guitar.wav > I'll give that a try later tonight. I'm confused as above you say "-i jack" gives a stereo chain, but you also say above "(mono track for drums and guitar)" Perhaps you meant "stereo" rather than "mono"? Or am I misunderstanding something still? > More info about ecasound's JACK support and the routing logic can > be found at: > > http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/users_guide/html_uguide/users_guide.html#htoc50 > http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html > http://eca.cx/ecasound/Documentation/ecasound_manpage.html (search for JACK) > Yeah, I had found those. An example of recording multiple channels from JACK would would have helped me a lot. (Well, maybe it's asking too much to hope someone would anticipate exactly what I want to do and provide an example. ;-) > If you want to play with JACK and ecasound, try also ecasignalview: > > ecasignalview jack_alsa null > ecasignalview jack null > ecasignalview jack_alsa foo.wav > ecasignalview -f:32,12,44100 jack_alsa jack_alsa > Ok, thanks. I didn't know about that. Especially helful because I have no audible output from my RME, it's just connected to the AW4416 and nothing else. To hear what I've transferred, I have to restart JACK to use my audigy2. Being able to see some feed back during the transfer would help a lot. > ... and do use also other tools (like 'timemachine') to make sure the > problem is not in a bad installation/bug in ecasound. Oooh, timemachine looks interesting. Thanks. > > > This works, but it seems small sections of the audio are > > being dropped here and there, so the result is that the > > transferred data is mostly correct, but is kind of "jumpy" > > as it skips these apparently dropped sections, which are > > short, but definitely noticeable. I suppose it could be > > some issue with my OS, scheduling, etc., or possibly > > cable problems. That latter I can rule out by moving > > my computer, and using different, shorter cables, I guess. > > My first guess this is trouble with the JACK settings (too low latency > settings for your current system and how it is configured). I'd recommend > trying witCh slightly larger settings of jackd period size and retry > the tests. Simply connect your soundcard inputs back to its outputs with > qjackctl and verify that the audio is ok (make sure any analog loopbacks > are disabled -> you don't hear any audio from the outputs until you > connected them with qjackctl). > > Some tips on how to debug/trace JACK performance can be found for > instance at: > > - http://jackaudio.org/faq > - http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/installtwosix.html#SECTION000201000000000000000 > > -- > links, my public keys, etc at http://eca.cx/kv > Thanks for the tips, this gives me a lot of things to try. -- steve ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index From plutek at infinity.net Thu Dec 7 12:26:03 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Thu Dec 7 12:26:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE generator Message-ID: <1165512363l.5454l.1l@paldesk> greetings! do any of you know of a linux program to generate audio files of SMPTE timecode, in various formats, or one which will record from some inputs while sending timecode (as audio -- NOT MTC) on an output? thanks! .pltk. From cesare at poeticstudios.com Thu Dec 7 13:37:03 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Thu Dec 7 12:38:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Python and Jack In-Reply-To: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45785F4F.2010704@poeticstudios.com> Renato Fabbri wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to output some audio through jack using the sndobj library. I get only a short beep.. > > Usind the sndobj library on python, pysndobj, here is a simple case of what, in my head, should output a left channel sinusoid for 3s: > > ___ > from sndobj import * > import time > > tab = HarmTable() > osc = Oscili(tab, 440,16000) > > jack = SndJackIO('theremin') > > jack.SetOutput(1, osc) > > osc.DoProcess() > > jack.Write() > > time.sleep(3) > > del jack > del osc > > _________ > > help? > renf > Ciao Renato, your code doesn't work here, either. I think you should use a thread, like it's explained in the SndOsc manual. Here's a modified version of your code. I've tested it and it works: from sndobj import * import time tab = HarmTable() osc = Oscili(tab, 440,16000) jack = SndJackIO('theremin') jack.SetOutput(1, osc) thread = SndThread() thread.AddObj(osc) thread.AddObj(jack, SNDIO_OUT) thread.ProcOn() time.sleep(3) thread.ProcOff() Ciao, c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From _ at whats-your.name Thu Dec 7 14:34:49 2006 From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen) Date: Thu Dec 7 14:35:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-announce] Reminder::Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> > The LAC2007 is taking place at the TU-Berlin, Germany from the 22nd - > 25th of March 2007. hey.. does this conference always happen in germany? or is there some kind of 'call for continents' and antarctica and greenland never enter? From nescivi at gmail.com Thu Dec 7 15:34:09 2006 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Thu Dec 7 15:44:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> Message-ID: <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> Hi, Thursday, December 7, 2006, 8:34:49 PM, Carmen wrote: >> The LAC2007 is taking place at the TU-Berlin, Germany from the 22nd - >> 25th of March 2007. c> hey.. does this conference always happen in germany? or is c> there some kind of 'call for continents' and antarctica and c> greenland never enter? The past four years (or rather the first four years), the conference has been organised in Karlsruhe, Germany, thanks to the generous support of the ZKM (Centre for Arts and Media) and the tremendous efforts of Goetz Dipper and Frank Neumann. The upcoming conference is the first to take place in another city, even though still in Germany. It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to proposals for this. There are however a few things that we have taken up as our goals for the conference, which is that participance needs to be free, and as accessible as possible for anyone who wants; which means that the whole conference will be streamed (as it has been in the past years) to the internet, both in audio and video, and people not able to physically attend the conference, can attend it virtually, and also participate by asking questions via IRC. The fact that we stream the whole conference, also has a consequence, that we need to hold the conference at a time, where as many people as possible can listen to the stream, which means for Germany, that the Australians maybe have to stay up a bit longer, and the Americans need to get up a bit earlier, but the times are not too awkward. (For those that are physically there, it has the nice advantage that we don't start too early, like some other conferences do...). Added to that, I believe that Australia also has its own LAC, isn't that right? sincerely, Marije Baalman Orga-Team Linux Audio Conference 2007 From vla at uni-bonn.de Thu Dec 7 16:49:58 2006 From: vla at uni-bonn.de (vlad) Date: Thu Dec 7 16:50:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] milkytracker Message-ID: <20061207214958.GA2310@morphius.M-SYSTEMS> hello everybody! just discovered this great app: http://www.milkytracker.net/ "Milkytracker is a free music creation tool inspired on Fast Tracker 2 (a popular MS-DOS tracker for the PC)". i?m playing now with it. looks good. greets, vlad From fons at kokkinizita.net Thu Dec 7 17:27:43 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu Dec 7 17:25:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 09:34:09PM +0100, nescivi wrote: > It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to > proposals for this. Who is 'we' ? In other words, how is this decided ? -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From perodog at gmx.net Thu Dec 7 18:17:17 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Thu Dec 7 18:17:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] GLASHCtl 0.4.0 In-Reply-To: <1163626995.11683.16.camel@c213-100-20-9.swipnet.se> References: <1163626995.11683.16.camel@c213-100-20-9.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> Lars Luthman wrote: > This is a simple applet for controlling the LASH Audio Session Handler. > When you run it it will appear as a small LASH icon in your > "notification area" or "system tray" (if your desktop manager is > compatible with freedesktop.org's "System tray" standard, > http://www.freedesktop.org/Standards/systemtray-spec). This is typically > somewhere in the panel in KDE or GNOME. There is also a front end for > the WindowMaker dock (or compatible window managers). > > Changes since 0.2.0: > > * A DockApp front end (thanks to Nedko Arnaudov) > * A "Recent" submenu for restoring recently saved sessions > * A "Connect" submenu for connecting and disconnecting JACK ports > * Doubleclicking session directories in the file selection dialog > restores the session instead of going into the directory > * The message window is removed > > Get it at http://dino.nongnu.org/glashctl > > hi all, i am trying to compile v0.4.2 and running make i get the following error: ---- Computing dependencies............. *** You don't have gtkmm-2.4>=2.10.1, which you need in order to build this software. make: *** [check-pkg-deps] Fehler 1 ---- so bad, there is no gtkmm2-4-v2.10.1 in debian, but i have libgtkmm1.2-0c2a v1.2.10-8 and libgtkmm2.0-1c2a-v2.2.12-2 installed, so that is not enough? the version of libgtkmm-2.4 on my system is 2.8.8-1. in /usr/lib i have: gtkmm-2.0 and gtkmm-2.4 installed. according to README i only need "libgtkmm (2.10.1 or newer)". am i now missing the right gtkmm version and have to wait for debian to release, or is this some mistake in the code? since i am using the older glashctl i really would like to update. cheers, doc From tdhoward at gmail.com Thu Dec 7 19:11:07 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Thu Dec 7 19:11:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] GLASHCtl 0.4.0 In-Reply-To: <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> References: <1163626995.11683.16.camel@c213-100-20-9.swipnet.se> <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> Message-ID: On 12/7/06, Dragan Noveski wrote: > in /usr/lib i have: > > gtkmm-2.0 and > gtkmm-2.4 installed. > > > according to README i only need "libgtkmm (2.10.1 or newer)". > > am i now missing the right gtkmm version and have to wait for debian to > release, or is this some mistake in the code? > since i am using the older glashctl i really would like to update. > > cheers, > doc > Same here... -TimH From martin at getyourbadge.net Fri Dec 8 04:49:08 2006 From: martin at getyourbadge.net (martin) Date: Fri Dec 8 04:47:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Xitel Pro Hifi-link playing mono, not stereo (Fedora Core 6) Message-ID: <45793514.1040200@getyourbadge.net> Hi, I have a Xitel Pro HiFi-link usb soundcard which works fine in Linux, except that it appears to be sending the same signal to both left and right channels. If I start up e.g. Audacity, import a track and pan it all the way to the left or right it still plays in both channels. The same thing happens in Ardour so I don't think it's a software specific thing. I've had this problem in FC5 and FC6. The sound was fine before that (FC4 I think). This is my first time playing around with Linux audio so if anyone could suggest how to start fixing this I'd be grateful. I can post any log/config files. Thanks, Martin From lars.luthman at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 05:48:36 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Fri Dec 8 05:48:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] GLASHCtl 0.4.0 In-Reply-To: <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> References: <1163626995.11683.16.camel@c213-100-20-9.swipnet.se> <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1165574916.13220.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 00:17 +0100, Dragan Noveski wrote: > hi all, > i am trying to compile v0.4.2 and running make i get the following error: > > ---- > Computing dependencies............. > *** You don't have gtkmm-2.4>=2.10.1, which you need in order to build > this software. > make: *** [check-pkg-deps] Fehler 1 > ---- > > so bad, there is no gtkmm2-4-v2.10.1 in debian, but i have > libgtkmm1.2-0c2a v1.2.10-8 and libgtkmm2.0-1c2a-v2.2.12-2 installed, so > that is not enough? > the version of libgtkmm-2.4 on my system is 2.8.8-1. No, since GLASHCtl 0.4 requires gtkmm >= 2.10.1. 1.2.0, 2.2.12 and 2.8.8 are all < 2.10.1. I don't know why Debian are so slow - are you sure that they don't even have a gtkmm 2.10 package in the "unstable" repositories? -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061208/ef95826f/attachment.bin From perodog at gmx.net Fri Dec 8 06:47:57 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Fri Dec 8 06:47:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] GLASHCtl 0.4.0 In-Reply-To: <1165574916.13220.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> References: <1163626995.11683.16.camel@c213-100-20-9.swipnet.se> <4578A0FD.9040804@gmx.net> <1165574916.13220.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <457950ED.9070809@gmx.net> Lars Luthman wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 00:17 +0100, Dragan Noveski wrote: > >> hi all, >> i am trying to compile v0.4.2 and running make i get the following error: >> >> ---- >> Computing dependencies............. >> *** You don't have gtkmm-2.4>=2.10.1, which you need in order to build >> this software. >> make: *** [check-pkg-deps] Fehler 1 >> ---- >> >> so bad, there is no gtkmm2-4-v2.10.1 in debian, but i have >> libgtkmm1.2-0c2a v1.2.10-8 and libgtkmm2.0-1c2a-v2.2.12-2 installed, so >> that is not enough? >> the version of libgtkmm-2.4 on my system is 2.8.8-1. >> > > No, since GLASHCtl 0.4 requires gtkmm >= 2.10.1. 1.2.0, 2.2.12 and 2.8.8 > are all < 2.10.1. > > I don't know why Debian are so slow - are you sure that they don't even > have a gtkmm 2.10 package in the "unstable" repositories? > > debian is mostly that slow! i just had a look in unstable, there are the same versions available. cheers, doc From nescivi at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 09:00:53 2006 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Fri Dec 8 09:36:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> Hello Fons, Thursday, December 7, 2006, 11:27:43 PM, you wrote: FA> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 09:34:09PM +0100, nescivi wrote: >> It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to >> proposals for this. FA> Who is 'we' ? In other words, how is this decided ? ok, last year the TU Berlin proposed to host LAC2007 to the ZKM and after some discussion with them, it was decided to make it so. We had some discussion during LAC2006 with the people involved organising the last LAC's about what the future would look like for the LAC, but we have not come to a definite conclusion yet. I suppose we will need to continue this discussion on LAC2007 to come together to a good solution. Sincerely, Marije Baalman From markknecht at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 09:46:17 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Fri Dec 8 09:47:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612080646q4e17405dq755648885fa15e5e@mail.gmail.com> On 12/8/06, nescivi wrote: > Hello Fons, > > Thursday, December 7, 2006, 11:27:43 PM, you wrote: > FA> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 09:34:09PM +0100, nescivi wrote: > >> It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to > >> proposals for this. > > FA> Who is 'we' ? In other words, how is this decided ? > > ok, last year the TU Berlin proposed to host LAC2007 to the ZKM and > after some discussion with them, it was decided to make it so. > We had some discussion during LAC2006 with the people involved > organising the last LAC's about what the future would look like for > the LAC, but we have not come to a definite conclusion yet. > I suppose we will need to continue this discussion on LAC2007 to come > together to a good solution. > > Sincerely, > Marije Baalman HI Marije, What's the 'TU Berlin'? Maybe those involved in this don't understand how little some of us (ME!!!) know about how this all gets set up. Anyway, I have no say in this and probably never will until I get rich. Germany is a long, long way from California so travel costs are prohibitive. Being that Linux Audio is world wide it's going to be that way for lots of people no matter where it's held. I think the folks who set this one up for the last 5 years should be able to have it where they want. Cheers to them and ZKM for all their efforts over the years. Maybe, if there was enough interest, there should be some thought towards doing conferences like this on more than one continent each year? LAC-Europe, but also LAC-Buffalo, LAC-Panda, LAC-Kangaroo, etc.? Cheers, Mark From cladisch at fastmail.net Fri Dec 8 13:32:10 2006 From: cladisch at fastmail.net (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Fri Dec 8 13:32:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Xitel Pro Hifi-link playing mono, not stereo (Fedora Core 6) In-Reply-To: <45793514.1040200@getyourbadge.net> References: <45793514.1040200@getyourbadge.net> Message-ID: <1165602730.3538.279565233@webmail.messagingengine.com> martin wrote: > I have a Xitel Pro HiFi-link usb soundcard which works fine in Linux, > except that it appears to be sending the same signal to both left and > right channels. Please show the output of "lsusb -v" for your device. Regards, Clemens From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 8 14:30:41 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Fri Dec 8 14:30:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4579BD61.3020102@sbcglobal.net> we are wrote: > On 12/5/06, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> >> On Tue, December 5, 2006 05:30, we are wrote: >> > i have been using qjackctl 0.2.2.21 >> > >> > could someone suggest why the iconify button has disappered. >> > >> >> that seems to be an idiosyncrasy of your specific window manager. > > i know this is slightly trivial... sorry. > > i'm using enlightenment 17 and fluxbox but the however the iconify > button is absent in both. > > >> >> > also, is there a way that it could auto detect what sound card is >> plugged >> > in and load a preset accordingly. i use both my HDSP card and the >> onboard >> > ICH intel sound chip depending on where i am at or how >> > orgainised i am. but each card needs different priority and buffer >> setting >> > for jack to opperate properly. >> > >> > i would really like to have qjackctl startup with my window manager but >> > due to my flux in sound device decision, i currently end up with >> loads of >> > errors and jack complaing at me if the preset does not mach the device >> > loaded. >> > >> > perhaps this is a suggestion if there are no current work arounds. >> > >> > > perhaps a startup script is possible to detect the soundcard attached > and then load a preset accordingly.... ie > > qjackctl -p --preset=$hdsp or $ICH > > needless to say i will have to learn a bit more about scripting but if > there are any script wizards out there, are there any simple lines > that people could suggest off the top of their heads. > > cheers > what is an HDSP card? if that's like some plug and play thing than you could check in /proc/asound and see if a file named after the card comes and goes when you plug and unplug it. then maybe something like: #!/bin/bash if [ -e /proc/asound/$HDSP ]; then qjackctl --preset=$HDSP else quackctl --preset=$ICH fi /brian From martin at getyourbadge.net Fri Dec 8 15:37:13 2006 From: martin at getyourbadge.net (martin@getyourbadge.net) Date: Fri Dec 8 15:31:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Xitel Pro Hifi-link playing mono, not stereo (Fedora Core 6) In-Reply-To: <1165602730.3538.279565233@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <45793514.1040200@getyourbadge.net> <1165602730.3538.279565233@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <44177.192.168.1.5.1165610233.squirrel@getyourbadge.net> Thanks for the reply, here's the output. --------------snip--------------- # lsusb -v Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller iSerial 1 0000:00:10.3 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 25 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xe0 Self Powered Remote Wakeup MaxPower 0mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 9 Hub bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes bInterval 255 Hub Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 41 nNbrPorts 2 wHubCharacteristic 0x000a No power switching (usb 1.0) Per-port overcurrent protection bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere DeviceRemovable 0xc0 PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 Hub Port Status: Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power Port 2: 0000.0103 power enable connect Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0c45:1700 Microdia Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) bDeviceSubClass 0 bDeviceProtocol 0 bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0c45 Microdia idProduct 0x1700 bcdDevice 1.00 iManufacturer 0 iProduct 1 USB Audio iSerial 0 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 144 bNumInterfaces 3 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xa0 Remote Wakeup MaxPower 100mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 1 Control Device bInterfaceProtocol 0 iInterface 0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER) bcdADC 1.00 wTotalLength 49 bInCollection 1 baInterfaceNr( 0) 1 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 12 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 1 wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming bAssocTerminal 0 bNrChannels 2 wChannelConfig 0x0003 Left Front (L) Right Front (R) iChannelNames 0 iTerminal 0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 5 wTerminalType 0x0605 SPDIF interface bAssocTerminal 0 bSourceID 1 iTerminal 0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 6 wTerminalType 0x0301 Speaker bAssocTerminal 0 bSourceID 9 iTerminal 0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 10 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 6 (FEATURE_UNIT) bUnitID 9 bSourceID 1 bControlSize 1 bmaControls( 0) 0x01 Mute bmaControls( 1) 0x02 Volume bmaControls( 2) 0x02 Volume iFeature 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 0 iInterface 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 1 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 0 iInterface 0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 1 bDelay 3 frames wFormatTag 1 PCM AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 11 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bNrChannels 2 bSubframeSize 2 bBitResolution 16 bSamFreqType 1 Discrete tSamFreq[ 0] 48000 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 9 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Adaptive Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x00c8 1x 200 bytes bInterval 1 bRefresh 0 bSynchAddress 0 AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 1 Milliseconds wLockDelay 4 Milliseconds Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 2 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Devices bInterfaceSubClass 0 No Subclass bInterfaceProtocol 0 None iInterface 0 HID Device Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 33 bcdHID 1.00 bCountryCode 0 Not supported bNumDescriptors 1 bDescriptorType 34 Report wDescriptorLength 48 Report Descriptors: ** UNAVAILABLE ** Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0003 1x 3 bytes bInterval 32 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller iSerial 1 0000:00:10.0 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 25 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xe0 Self Powered Remote Wakeup MaxPower 0mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 9 Hub bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes bInterval 255 Hub Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 41 nNbrPorts 2 wHubCharacteristic 0x000a No power switching (usb 1.0) Per-port overcurrent protection bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere DeviceRemovable 0xc0 PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 Hub Port Status: Port 1: 0000.0100 power Port 2: 0000.0100 power Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller iSerial 1 0000:00:10.1 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 25 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xe0 Self Powered Remote Wakeup MaxPower 0mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 9 Hub bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes bInterval 255 Hub Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 41 nNbrPorts 2 wHubCharacteristic 0x000a No power switching (usb 1.0) Per-port overcurrent protection bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere DeviceRemovable 0xc0 PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 Hub Port Status: Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power Port 2: 0000.0300 lowspeed power Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller iSerial 1 0000:00:10.2 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 25 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xe0 Self Powered Remote Wakeup MaxPower 0mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 9 Hub bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes bInterval 255 Hub Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 41 nNbrPorts 2 wHubCharacteristic 0x000a No power switching (usb 1.0) Per-port overcurrent protection bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere DeviceRemovable 0xc0 PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 Hub Port Status: Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power Port 2: 0000.0300 lowspeed power Bus 005 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 ehci_hcd iProduct 2 EHCI Host Controller iSerial 1 0000:00:10.4 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 25 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0xe0 Self Powered Remote Wakeup MaxPower 0mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 9 Hub bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes bInterval 12 Hub Descriptor: bLength 11 bDescriptorType 41 nNbrPorts 8 wHubCharacteristic 0x000a No power switching (usb 1.0) Per-port overcurrent protection TT think time 8 FS bits bPwrOn2PwrGood 10 * 2 milli seconds bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere DeviceRemovable 0xc0 0x96 PortPwrCtrlMask 0xfa 0xb7 Hub Port Status: Port 1: 0000.0100 power Port 2: 0000.0503 highspeed power enable connect Port 3: 0000.0100 power Port 4: 0000.0100 power Port 5: 0000.0100 power Port 6: 0000.0100 power Port 7: 0000.0100 power Port 8: 0000.0000 Bus 005 Device 002: ID 05e3:0760 Genesys Logic, Inc. Card Reader Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) bDeviceSubClass 0 bDeviceProtocol 0 bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x05e3 Genesys Logic, Inc. idProduct 0x0760 Card Reader bcdDevice 1.25 iManufacturer 0 iProduct 3 Flash Reader iSerial 4 00115 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 32 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0x80 MaxPower 500mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 8 Mass Storage bInterfaceSubClass 6 SCSI bInterfaceProtocol 80 Bulk (Zip) iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 2 Transfer Type Bulk Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes bInterval 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT bmAttributes 2 Transfer Type Bulk Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes bInterval 0 Device Qualifier (for other device speed): bLength 10 bDescriptorType 6 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) bDeviceSubClass 0 bDeviceProtocol 0 bMaxPacketSize0 64 bNumConfigurations 1 > martin wrote: >> I have a Xitel Pro HiFi-link usb soundcard which works fine in Linux, >> except that it appears to be sending the same signal to both left and >> right channels. > > Please show the output of "lsusb -v" for your device. > > > Regards, > Clemens > From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Fri Dec 8 20:56:05 2006 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Fri Dec 8 20:56:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612080646q4e17405dq755648885fa15e5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612080646q4e17405dq755648885fa15e5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <457A17B5.7060605@linuxuse.de> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mark Knecht schrieb: > On 12/8/06, nescivi wrote: >> Hello Fons, >> >> Thursday, December 7, 2006, 11:27:43 PM, you wrote: >> FA> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 09:34:09PM +0100, nescivi wrote: >> >> It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to >> >> proposals for this. >> >> FA> Who is 'we' ? In other words, how is this decided ? >> >> ok, last year the TU Berlin proposed to host LAC2007 to the ZKM and >> after some discussion with them, it was decided to make it so. >> We had some discussion during LAC2006 with the people involved >> organising the last LAC's about what the future would look like for >> the LAC, but we have not come to a definite conclusion yet. >> I suppose we will need to continue this discussion on LAC2007 to come >> together to a good solution. >> >> Sincerely, >> Marije Baalman > > HI Marije, > What's the 'TU Berlin'? Technical University, simple for me - I live around the corner, compared to you ;-) Still the Question from Fons has not been answered yet, Who are you? The Staff of the TU Rektor? Have you got a website up (if not: do you need any help, to setup one?) > Anyway, I have no say in this and probably never will until I get > rich. Germany is a long, long way from California so travel costs are > prohibitive. Being that Linux Audio is world wide it's going to be > that way for lots of people no matter where it's held. TUs name has some reputation, so if the TU would ask for sponsoring travelling costs, it may have a good chance to get some checks. Though sponsoring culture is somewhat underdeveloped in Germ... > > I think the folks who set this one up for the last 5 years should > be able to have it where they want. Cheers to them and ZKM for all > their efforts over the years. > > Maybe, if there was enough interest, there should be some thought > towards doing conferences like this on more than one continent each > year? LAC-Europe, but also LAC-Buffalo, LAC-Panda, LAC-Kangaroo, etc.? Yeahhh LACs for everybody everywhere!! Out of obvious reasons (refer my nick) I like the idea of having a LAC here in Berlin very much ;-) But of course I agree, that travelling costs should be no hindrance for interesting and interested international Linux-Audio-Makers to come. So fundraising should be made.... best regards Z p.s.: I would be honoured to host a guest in my flat and donate a small amount of money to buy tickets(sometimes it is not perfectly easy for us to raise the money to pay the rent for the abovementioned flat, so dont expect a Shuttleworthish amount ;-) ). -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFehe11Aecwva1SWMRAjimAJ9HxkvhWaglVTsCYuICyRRtJWLD3wCghcuo 0JRV7p3QIqfkyMwQBGhssCc= =P93g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 8 21:22:02 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 8 21:22:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <457A17B5.7060605@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <000601c71b38$d091c0c0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> FWIW, I have been thinking about organizing LAC in US once my fundraising for the studio/infrastructure is complete and the studio reaches a relatively stable state. I would also love to see more connections between Linuxaudio.org and LAC but that obviously is not entirely up to me. Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Linuxaudio.org Director Virginia Tech Department of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-1137 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico@linuxaudio.org http://www.music.vt.edu/people/faculty/bukvic From bengan at sunet.se Sat Dec 9 05:21:40 2006 From: bengan at sunet.se (Bengt =?iso-8859-1?q?G=F6rd=E9n?=) Date: Sat Dec 9 05:21:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children Message-ID: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> Hi, One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated. regards, /bengan From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sat Dec 9 09:10:13 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sat Dec 9 09:11:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Focusrite Saffire LE vs. Presonus Firebox Message-ID: Hi list. I'm looking to buy some firewire sound card, and I have got a very good price on a Focusrite Saffire LE, but it says on the Freebob website about the Saffire: "FireWire Interface with DSP - DSP and mixer not supported by FreeBob". What does this mean practically? On Focusrite's website it says about the LE: "Although only the original Saffire has onboard DSP.." which should mean that the LE has not. Which are the pros and cons compared to the Presonus Firebox which I can obtain for a marginally higher price? Is the Focusrite Saffire LE even fully workable under Linux? If "mixer" means the included control software for Windows, what possibilities for controlling the device exists? And is the support for the Firebox sufficient, or should I go for something completely different in the same or even lower pricerange? I'm thinking of even buying a Presonus Firepod if I can get it at a good price, is this something that is 100% supported, or are there still things that need to be fixed? Regards, Mathias From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Sat Dec 9 11:28:11 2006 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Sat Dec 9 11:28:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612080646q4e17405dq755648885fa15e5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612080646q4e17405dq755648885fa15e5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <457AE41B.4040807@boosthardware.com> Mark Knecht wrote: > > Maybe, if there was enough interest, there should be some thought > towards doing conferences like this on more than one continent each > year? LAC-Europe, but also LAC-Buffalo, LAC-Panda, LAC-Kangaroo, etc.? > Being one of the few LAD/LAU representatives in Asia I can say now that an LAC here will be an uphill battle. Today I was at an audio trade show in Bangkok where even the big names were having trouble getting a crowd. That's not to say I'm not working on the possibility. Having successfully planted the seed today I expect to see some movement over the next couple of years assuming I stick around long enough to see it through. on the other hand the car show on the other side of the complex was pumping. Maybe if I themed the event with big hot rods and sexy chicks in thongs dancing on pillars it could work. Still we are missing some cheesy Hip Hop and none of the old school rockers I know of use Linux to record so the audio side of the show might not mesh with the theme. Cheers. -- Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. Http://www.boosthardware.com Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide ======================================== "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become reality" - Macka B From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Sat Dec 9 11:47:34 2006 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Sat Dec 9 11:47:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> Message-ID: <457AE8A6.6070006@boosthardware.com> Bengt G?rd?n wrote: > Hi, > > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children. > I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my > own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there > anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use > and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of > 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated. > > regards, > > > /bengan > Audacity is pretty to look at but might have too many features. Who knows with kids these days though. -- Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. Http://www.boosthardware.com Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide ======================================== "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become reality" - Macka B From ka1iic at prexar.com Sat Dec 9 13:26:20 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Sat Dec 9 12:23:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457AE8A6.6070006@boosthardware.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <457AE8A6.6070006@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: Yes Audacity would be a excellent program and if the 'features' end looks a bit scary you could opt out for one of the earlier versions of that same program... Don't worry about the children handling it... their minds are nomt clouded with so called 'adult logic' and what makes sense for then is so often the correct way to go :-) Kids are amazing that way... have a good day and a better tomorrow! vince ka1iic@prexar.com > Bengt Gördén wrote: >> Hi, >> >> One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for >> children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have >> children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a >> problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared >> towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that fluent in >> English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be >> appreciated. >> regards, >> >> >> /bengan >> > > Audacity is pretty to look at but might have too many features. Who knows > with kids these days though. > > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. > Http://www.boosthardware.com > Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide > ======================================== > > "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become > reality" - Macka B > From tdhoward at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 12:54:28 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Sat Dec 9 12:54:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: Hello, It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to start using Linux for serious audio work. The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of maintaining support for another OS... So I was wondering if there was any ongoing "official" effort to pull these developers over to the light side. Would a bounty help persuade them? Any thoughts? -TimH From _ at whats-your.name Sat Dec 9 12:56:15 2006 From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen) Date: Sat Dec 9 12:57:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> Message-ID: <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt G?rd?n wrote: > Hi, > > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children. > I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my > own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there > anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use > and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of > 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated. git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam > > regards, > > > /bengan > From lanas at securenet.net Sat Dec 9 13:20:02 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sat Dec 9 13:15:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> Message-ID: <20061209132002.79a89838@mistral.stie> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:21:40 +0100 Bengt G?rd?n wrote: > children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if > theres a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that > is more geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children > (not that fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have > any suggestion it would be appreciated. I haven't tried it yet personally but I've seen the video demos and the Freewheeling sequencer seems quite intuitive to use. Maybe not to setup (I don't know) but as far as using it, it looks fun and easy. Here is what the author of Freewheeling had to say this November: "I am especially interested in collaborating with people for whom music is a community-based process. What tools can we create to teach and encourage improvisation? How can we work with technology appropriately in a group setting? The tools that would come out of these questions would be fresh, because they turn the music production paradigm on its head." Home page and Videos: http://freewheeling.sourceforge.net/ Linux Journal (from last year) : http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8445 As for at home, it's probably like yours. My kids (9 and 11) are using Ardour and the Zyn synth. They start the system, start jack, etc... and use Ardour to record. They don't find it difficult to do for what they're doing. Heck, I don't even know what Ardour can do myself, apart from what I'm doing, which is to record parts, add effects, mix and export them. Looks like I'm using 10% of it. I'd sure would like it if Ardour had a better user interface as far as the effects are concerned. It's a real bummer to click on a low frequence eq to adjust it and suddenly hearing it go way high because some mouse movment was interpreted wrong. Not good for the speakers. Now I'm always bypassing an effect when making adjustements, and turn it on after it's done. I'll try to give Freewheeling a try this weekend. Re-reading about it makes it tempting to try. Cheers, Al From contact at leonard-ritter.com Sat Dec 9 13:17:22 2006 From: contact at leonard-ritter.com (Leonard Ritter) Date: Sat Dec 9 13:17:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> hi tim, On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > Hello, > It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the > linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to > start using Linux for serious audio work. no, it's just you. ;) > The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are > developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but > they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For > example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just > stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to > their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of > maintaining support for another OS... what you say is not true. they're coming. i migrated from windows to linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help the people who just arrived to find a good start. -- Leonard Ritter -- Freelance Art & Logic -- http://www.leonard-ritter.com From carotinobg at yahoo.it Sat Dec 9 14:02:23 2006 From: carotinobg at yahoo.it (Carotinho) Date: Sat Dec 9 14:01:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Delta 44 In-Reply-To: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Hi all! I've just bough a Delta 44 but I can't run it. I've installed it properly, and the modules get loaded. But I'm scratching my head as I cannot get Jack to work with it. The message is loading driver .. apparent rate = 48000 creating alsa driver ... hw:2,0|hw:2,0|128|2|48000|4|4|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit control device hw:2 configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit little-endian ALSA: cannot set channel count to 4 for capture ALSA: cannot configure capture channel cannot load driver module alsa and I get errors with every channel count number, sample rates, etc. I've a SBLive installed, which takes hw:0. Did someone of you incurred in the same problem and found a solution? Thanks in advance! Carotinho Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From rncbc at rncbc.org Sat Dec 9 14:33:37 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sat Dec 9 14:29:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Delta 44 In-Reply-To: <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> References: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: <457B0F91.5050204@rncbc.org> Carotinho wrote: > Hi all! > I've just bough a Delta 44 but I can't run it. > I've installed it properly, and the modules get loaded. But I'm scratching my > head as I cannot get Jack to work with it. > The message is > > loading driver .. > apparent rate = 48000 > creating alsa driver ... hw:2,0|hw:2,0|128|2|48000|4|4|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > control device hw:2 > configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods > ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit little-endian > ALSA: cannot set channel count to 4 for capture > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > cannot load driver module alsa > > and I get errors with every channel count number, sample rates, etc. even with 0 (zero) channel count? :) Bye. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 14:42:26 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 14:42:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> Message-ID: <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> carmen wrote: > On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt G?rd?n wrote: >> Hi, >> >> One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children. >> I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my >> own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there >> anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use >> and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of >> 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated. > > git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference. Here's the OLPC Wiki link: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam and the repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not only for audio but entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs in squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational apps have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years around the world. Here are some links: Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" for a good overview eToys on the OLPC laptop: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Etoys Articles on eToys and education: http://www.squeakland.org/school/HTML/essays/essays.html Some info for teachers: http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree Very good site for French speakers (or have google translate): http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Squeak_Education http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Category:Squeak_Education specifically: http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Sons_et_Image_-_un_%C3%A9change_France-Argentine Squeak main site: http://www.squeak.org/ If you would like more information, please don't hesitate to ask. Squeak is a rich environment and I think many here would find it engaging and fun. BTW, the latest Linux VM has an ALSA plugin. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 14:55:57 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 14:57:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > carmen wrote: >> On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt Gördén wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for >> > children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have >> > children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres >> > a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more >> > geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that >> > fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any >> > suggestion it would be appreciated. >> >> git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam > > Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference. > Here's the OLPC Wiki link: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam > > and the repo: > http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree > I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults with a children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as near as I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a similar program, exists now? I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of tamtam? I could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) Thanks, ichael From ico at vt.edu Sat Dec 9 15:00:18 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:00:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that > windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it turns out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now, average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"), but for developers, it will be a no-brainer. OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years, and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the 2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective. All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at least as far as Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue to grow exponentially... Ico From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 15:03:51 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:04:12 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > > > > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> carmen wrote: >>> On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt G?rd?n wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable >>> for > children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although >>> I have > children of my own. My children play with our small studio >>> and if theres > a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs >>> software that is more > geared towards ease of use and in his case >>> towards children (not that > fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 >>> years. So if you have any > suggestion it would be appreciated. >>> >>> git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam >> >> Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference. >> Here's the OLPC Wiki link: >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam >> >> and the repo: >> http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree >> > > I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults > with a > children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as > near as > I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a > similar > program, exists now? > > I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of > tamtam? I > could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless > references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although there is an yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site and allows you to quickly check out etoys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) > > Thanks, > ichael -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 15:11:46 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:13:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not only for audio but entire > multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs in squeak, a > Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational apps have been running > in squeak and used in schools for many years around the world. > > Here are some links: > > Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" for a > good overview > Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the work we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and was instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank! Michael From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 15:17:21 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:17:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457B19D1.2090903@sonaural.com> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >> bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that >> windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help > > > Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it turns > out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now, > average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably > continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"), but > for developers, it will be a no-brainer. > > OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years, > and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the > 2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a > deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective. > > All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of > Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at least as far as > Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue > to grow exponentially... > > > Ico > Developers will be drawn to where the money is, unless it's a love. And, that's MAC and Windows right now. I seriously doubt that is going to change with Vista and the problems that may come with it. Problems are just something to be solved. Developers need to eat and since the vast majority of OSs out there are MAC and Windows, they'll stay there. It's a numbers and survival game. I see more interest in developer tools that can author the application in one environment and deploy to several. That is until the OS completely goes away - which will be some time from now ;-) It is interesting that universities are moving more and more to Linux and other FOSS. In the long run, this might turn out to be a tactic that eventually infiltrates Linux into homes and to creators of music and other art because of their exposure in school. I don't know how successful Apple was with it's education initiative in the past. I heard that it was successful a number of years ago. But, I see High Schools with PCs, not MACs (though, I don't have the real numbers, just a personal observation.) -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 15:15:54 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:18:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: >> ... >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of >> tamtam? I >> could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless >> references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) > > git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers decided > to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although there is an > yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site and allows you to > quickly check out etoys. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years? Thanks! From extremecs at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 14:20:02 2006 From: extremecs at yahoo.com (October) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:22:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Delta 44 In-Reply-To: <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: <973595.95387.qm@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> Does it show up correctly in Kmix or another mixer? You say the SB is hw:0 and it looks like you are trying to setup jack for hw:2... what does it detect as hw:1? Are you running a distro that has alsaconf available? Until recently I ran a Delta 44 in combination with my onboard soundchip and never had a problem with them playing together although it seems to me that jack found the '44 as hw:1. Motherboard had PCI slots go flaky so I can't verify that until I get a new board :( Best, Jon Hoskins Carotinho wrote: Hi all! I've just bough a Delta 44 but I can't run it. I've installed it properly, and the modules get loaded. But I'm scratching my head as I cannot get Jack to work with it. The message is loading driver .. apparent rate = 48000 creating alsa driver ... hw:2,0|hw:2,0|128|2|48000|4|4|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit control device hw:2 configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit little-endian ALSA: cannot set channel count to 4 for capture ALSA: cannot configure capture channel cannot load driver module alsa and I get errors with every channel count number, sample rates, etc. I've a SBLive installed, which takes hw:0. Did someone of you incurred in the same problem and found a solution? Thanks in advance! Carotinho Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls who needs gates or windows? --unknown --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061209/29f492a2/attachment.html From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 9 16:21:16 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:23:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > > > > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not only for audio but >> entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs >> in squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational >> apps have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years >> around the world. >> >> Here are some links: >> >> Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" >> for a good overview >> > > Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all > the work > we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine > and was > instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank! > > Michael > > By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to manipulate music and output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs). It's a pity that the audio (an in general the multimedia) aspects of squeak have been left behind in recent development. Ciao, c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sat Dec 9 15:31:07 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:23:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457B1D0B.9090603@woh.rr.com> michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years? There's your trouble. ;-) Forgive me, Michael, someone had to say it... Best, dp From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 15:34:47 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:36:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B1D0B.9090603@woh.rr.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> <457B1D0B.9090603@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Dave Phillips wrote: > michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years? > > There's your trouble. ;-) > > Forgive me, Michael, someone had to say it... Of course I forgive you. So true! (I still use vi and pine, although I moved up to pine from /bin/mail only a handful of years ago) From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 15:43:28 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 15:57:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: >> > Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" for >> > a good overview >> > >> >> Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the >> work >> we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and >> was >> instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank! >> >> Michael >> >> > By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to manipulate music and > output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs). > > It's a pity that the audio (an in general the multimedia) aspects of squeak > have been left behind in recent development. I've joined the squeakland mailing list and hope to learn more from the conversations there, and of course experimenting with squeak as well. I'm particularly interested in working with kids to build mechanisms using motors and relays, controlling them via computer, and integrating with images and/or sounds on the computer. I'm pretty happy with my hardware interface and construction methods (foam core, hot glue, motors from solarbotics, objects removed from discarded electronic equipment, which the kids help take apart, etc.) but I've been searching for an easy-to-use, free, Linux supported multimedia environment that would support this. Squeak might be exactly what I've been looking for. Would you have any final thoughts on where I might look next in researching how squeak can help me here, or find others doing this sort of work with squeak? Thanks again for all your advice, Michael From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 15:50:21 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:03:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457B218D.1000604@sonaural.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to manipulate music and > output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs). On a different note I recall your squeak-audio message: Cesare Marilungo wrote: > I just wanted to tell you that I've finally managed to do what I need. > > I can make squeak talk to PureData via OSC and control other MIDI apps > from there. Anyway one of the most interesting uses of squeak (and > music) I can think about is to make GUIs and front-ends for PureData > patches. How is this going? Are you going to make this available on SqueakSource? -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From glauberalex at uol.com.br Sat Dec 9 15:59:53 2006 From: glauberalex at uol.com.br (glauber alex dias prado) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:12:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <1165697993.8012.0.camel@gredesk> Em S?b, 2006-12-09 ?s 12:15 -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com escreveu: > > > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > > > michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> > ... > >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of > >> tamtam? I > >> could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless > >> references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) > > > > git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers decided > > to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although there is an > > yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site and allows you to > > quickly check out etoys. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) > > > I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". > > Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years? > > Thanks! > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/TamTam i never tried but can be something to look at. From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 16:00:11 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:12:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Squeak Audio Message-ID: <457B23DB.9060704@sonaural.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > It's a pity that the audio (an in general the multimedia) aspects of > squeak have been left behind in recent development. Hi Cesare, I agree. It can be so much better. As you know, I made a call out to Squeak developers and a few replied regarding refreshing the multimedia side of squeak. But, you know, maybe I asked the wrong people! Most of the developers on the main squeak development list focus on more basic fundamentals. I should have made the call here. I would love if audio developers here would get involved in squeak! Think of how fast and how cool some of those apps would be! Squeak has many benefits for audio developers: 1: you can take advantage of all the great features of Smalltalk. Too numerous to list here - the late binding facilities of smalltalk is one important perk. Great for development and for deployment. See: http://squeak.org/Features/Development/ For any competent programmer, the smalltalk syntax can be learned in an hour. To take advantage of the classes takes much longer. 2: Your application will, in most cases will be available on Windows Mac and Linux immediately. (unless you write a VM plugin which you'll have to port) 3: It already has many audio facilities already completed (as I mentioned, ALSA plugin is in the latest 3.9 VM.) Some of them need cleaning up, and that would be a great way to start learning the classes for audio. 4: there are many resources at your disposal - from the rich Smalltalk environment to the Wiki's and development mailing lists. Please chime in, Cesare, with your experience with pd, OSC and squeak. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From glauberalex at uol.com.br Sat Dec 9 16:04:27 2006 From: glauberalex at uol.com.br (glauber alex dias prado) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:18:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <1165698267.8012.3.camel@gredesk> Em S?b, 2006-12-09 ?s 11:55 -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com escreveu: > > > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > > > carmen wrote: > >> On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt Grdn wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for > >> > children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have > >> > children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres > >> > a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more > >> > geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that > >> > fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any > >> > suggestion it would be appreciated. > >> > >> git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam > > > > Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference. > > Here's the OLPC Wiki link: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam > > > > and the repo: > > http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree > > > > I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults with a > children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as near as > I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a similar > program, exists now? > > I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of tamtam? no git is a versioning system like cvs or svn but different. tamtam is using git as it versioning management system. > I > could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless > references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) > > Thanks, > ichael From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 16:12:39 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:25:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457B26C7.3090905@sonaural.com> michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > > > > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not only for audio but >> entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs >> in squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational >> apps have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years >> around the world. >> >> Here are some links: >> >> Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" >> for a good overview >> > > Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the > work > we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and was > instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank! > > Michael > Great to hear that you like it, Michael. Squeakland also has a mailing list: http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 16:27:16 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:35:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457B2A34.1070909@sonaural.com> michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > I've joined the squeakland mailing list and hope to learn more from the > conversations there, and of course experimenting with squeak as well. > > I'm particularly interested in working with kids to build mechanisms using > motors and relays, controlling them via computer, and integrating with > images > and/or sounds on the computer. I'm pretty happy with my hardware > interface and > construction methods (foam core, hot glue, motors from solarbotics, objects > removed from discarded electronic equipment, which the kids help take > apart, > etc.) but I've been searching for an easy-to-use, free, Linux supported > multimedia environment that would support this. Squeak might be exactly > what > I've been looking for. Would you have any final thoughts on where I > might look > next in researching how squeak can help me here, or find others doing > this sort > of work with squeak? > > Thanks again for all your advice, > Michael > Hmm... several people do work with squeak and robots, gumstix, etc. Jon Hylands has done some work with robots and squeak. http://www.huv.com/jon/ St?phane Ducasse wrote a book about "virtual" robots. Might be helpful http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc I would search through the squeak-dev list for what you are looking for: squeakbot site:lists.squeakfoundation.org robots site:lists.squeakfoundation.org there's a lot there. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From michael at michaelshiloh.com Sat Dec 9 16:53:33 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:55:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B2A34.1070909@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> <457B2A34.1070909@sonaural.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> I've joined the squeakland mailing list and hope to learn more from the >> conversations there, and of course experimenting with squeak as well. >> >> I'm particularly interested in working with kids to build mechanisms using >> motors and relays, controlling them via computer, and integrating with >> images >> and/or sounds on the computer. I'm pretty happy with my hardware interface >> and >> construction methods (foam core, hot glue, motors from solarbotics, >> objects >> removed from discarded electronic equipment, which the kids help take >> apart, >> etc.) but I've been searching for an easy-to-use, free, Linux supported >> multimedia environment that would support this. Squeak might be exactly >> what >> I've been looking for. Would you have any final thoughts on where I might >> look >> next in researching how squeak can help me here, or find others doing this >> sort >> of work with squeak? >> >> Thanks again for all your advice, >> Michael >> > > Hmm... several people do work with squeak and robots, gumstix, etc. > > Jon Hylands has done some work with robots and squeak. > http://www.huv.com/jon/ Ah yes. I thought the name was familiar. He and his brother Dave are quite prolific in the robotic community, and extremely helpful. > Stéphane Ducasse wrote a book about "virtual" robots. Might be helpful > http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc > > > I would search through the squeak-dev list for what you are looking for: > squeakbot site:lists.squeakfoundation.org > robots site:lists.squeakfoundation.org > > there's a lot there. Excellent. Thanks. I'll report on progress. Michael From cesare at poeticstudios.com Sat Dec 9 17:54:15 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Sat Dec 9 16:56:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B218D.1000604@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B28CC.5050300@poeticstudios.com> <457B218D.1000604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457B3E97.7010804@poeticstudios.com> Brad Fuller wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > >> By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to manipulate music >> and output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs). > > > On a different note I recall your squeak-audio message: > > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > I just wanted to tell you that I've finally managed to do what I need. > > > > I can make squeak talk to PureData via OSC and control other MIDI apps > > from there. Anyway one of the most interesting uses of squeak (and > > music) I can think about is to make GUIs and front-ends for PureData > > patches. > > How is this going? Are you going to make this available on SqueakSource? > It is going slowly. :-) I'm doing a lot of things at the same time, like most people here, I guess. I'll made a release as soon as I'll have something interesting to show. I'm working on independent morphics so you can use them for whatever else you want. There are already some nice music related morphics in squeak. But they're too tied to the built-in music functionalities which basically are just the midi protocol, sample playback and fm synthesis. For other developers interested in this, there's a very easy to use foreign function interface to call whatever library you want from within squeak. Anyway my idea is to use squeak as some sort of interactive sequencer (but using mainly OSC instead of MIDI) where a squeak project ( a .pr file) will be the equivalent of a document. Ciao, c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From gateswideopen at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 17:03:25 2006 From: gateswideopen at gmail.com (we are) Date: Sat Dec 9 17:04:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <4579BD61.3020102@sbcglobal.net> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> <4579BD61.3020102@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <5969dc560612091403w5e415e3ajb2974b67be23147a@mail.gmail.com> > #!/bin/bash > > if [ -e /proc/asound/$HDSP ]; then > qjackctl --preset=$HDSP > else > quackctl --preset=$ICH > > fi Yep, thats exactly what i need. problem solved! thanks. tom. From lanas at securenet.net Sat Dec 9 17:18:54 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sat Dec 9 17:14:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <20061209171854.0e034db8@mistral.stie> On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 12:03:51 -0800 Brad Fuller ?crivait: > git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers > decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - > although there is an yum repo too for etoys. Is etoys distributed separately from Squeak ? Did they made a Smalltalk virtual machine with only etoys in it ? Al From lanas at securenet.net Sat Dec 9 18:27:29 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sat Dec 9 18:22:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <20061209182729.388fc9d0@mistral.stie> On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 11:42:26 -0800 Brad Fuller ?crivait: [Some Squeak URLs] Thanks a lot for the links ! Cheers, Al From contact at leonard-ritter.com Sat Dec 9 19:49:07 2006 From: contact at leonard-ritter.com (Leonard Ritter) Date: Sat Dec 9 19:49:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <1165711747.9578.116.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 15:00 -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years, > and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the > 2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a > deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective. 2000 was out of control. everything capped with the dot com bubble. if you want to see how heavy, check virtually all IT corps stock figures of 2000. it was just insane. if the linux market had _not_ capped at 2000, i would be worried. -- Leonard Ritter -- Freelance Art & Logic -- http://www.leonard-ritter.com From jack.oquin at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 19:53:00 2006 From: jack.oquin at gmail.com (Jack O'Quin) Date: Sat Dec 9 19:53:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Delta 44 In-Reply-To: <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> References: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: On 12/9/06, Carotinho wrote: > Hi all! > I've just bough a Delta 44 but I can't run it. > I've installed it properly, and the modules get loaded. But I'm scratching my > head as I cannot get Jack to work with it. > The message is > > loading driver .. > apparent rate = 48000 > creating alsa driver ... hw:2,0|hw:2,0|128|2|48000|4|4|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > control device hw:2 Don't set the channel counts, let JACK figure it out. Due to peculiarities of the ice1712 chip it is actually 12 and 10. -- joq From brad at sonaural.com Sat Dec 9 20:29:13 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sat Dec 9 20:30:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061209171854.0e034db8@mistral.stie> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> <20061209171854.0e034db8@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <457B62E9.5040901@sonaural.com> lanas wrote: > On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 12:03:51 -0800 > Brad Fuller ?crivait: > >> git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers >> decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - >> although there is an yum repo too for etoys. > > Is etoys distributed separately from Squeak ? Did they made a > Smalltalk virtual machine with only etoys in it ? No. etoys relies on squeak and it's intertwined at the moment. There has been some discussions on removing it and making it a separate package. If you get the OLPC version of etoys, the user will only interface with etoys, AFAIK. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sun Dec 10 03:32:45 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sun Dec 10 03:33:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> Message-ID: <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 11:21 +0100, Bengt G?rd?n wrote: > Hi, > > One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children. > I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my > own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there > anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use > and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of > 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated. > Perhaps Jokosher would do the trick? Don't know whether this app has any swedish locale, and perhaps it's a bit too advanced for 6-7 yearolds, but it is worth a look: http://www.jokosher.org/ MVH Mathias From kouhia at nic.funet.fi Sun Dec 10 03:50:21 2006 From: kouhia at nic.funet.fi (Juhana Sadeharju) Date: Sun Dec 10 03:50:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music Message-ID: Found this recent Ph.D. thesis: Juha Arrasvuori, Playing and making music: exploring the similarities between video games and music-making software. http://acta.uta.fi/pdf/951-44-6689-6.pdf Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sun Dec 10 04:31:25 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sun Dec 10 04:31:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 19:17 +0100, Leonard Ritter wrote: > On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > > Hello, > > It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the > > linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to > > start using Linux for serious audio work. Where can you read about using Linux for serious audio work? It is for sure not in the mainstream press around here. You have to be seriously involved in the Linux community to see that there is a platform for audio work on Linux. Perhaps I was just ignorant because I was not interested in pursuing my old tracking-career during the 90's on Linux, but as late as in July, all I knew about the Linux audio community was the tiny little bit held by Audacity. Four or five months later, I have a decent low latency system that I can use for hobby recording. I don't know how many more months it would take me if I decided to go into audio development. [cut] Leonard: > what you say is not true. they're coming. i migrated from windows to > linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be > more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or > bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that > windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help > the people who just arrived to find a good start. The question is, where is this good start? If all the people on this list got together to form a basic documentation of how to set up a studio in Linux, you wouldn't have to answer the same questions over and over again. :) Instead, as a new user, the only solution is endless googling in largely outdated 30-row-textfiles that does not explain more than is absolutely necessary. One cannot develop something one does not understand. Example: When asking on this list where to find information about understanding the .asoundrc-file, I get the answer: "You shouldn't need .asoundrc. If you do, there's a bug in ALSA". I got a helpful answer aswell, but that is not the point. Perhaps stupid questions deserve stupid answers, but that is not what I asked. :) Before asking this question, I tried consulting the ALSA developer docs, did endless googling on the subject and tried other mailing-lists and forums. Maybe the information was out there and I just didn't find it. And it may very well be completely unnecessary to know anything about the .asoundrc-file, but when trying to ask stupid questions and answer them through documentation, it is a bit frustrating. No offence, you who answered me. :) Instead of getting questions about realtime kernels twenty times a year, EVERY year, why not put together a documentation that new users can use? One that is not written by Paul Winkler in 2000 and has references to kernel 2.2.x The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here. I'd be happy to compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some material to start from. And you guys are the experts. Just my $/?0.02 Highest regards, Mathias From mike.taht at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 15:22:35 2006 From: mike.taht at gmail.com (Mike Taht) Date: Sun Dec 10 05:06:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> <000e01c71bcc$a718fee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <158277e20612091222o334bca28ibf51d64aa6b79ff3@mail.gmail.com> On 12/9/06, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > > bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that > > windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help > > > Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it > turns > out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now, > average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably > continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"), > but > for developers, it will be a no-brainer. Actually, so far as audio is concerned, if Vista is incapable of low latency operations I can see that pulling more developers to Linux and Mac. But I don't know. All I do know is the gradual feature creep of XP ultimately made it unusable for audio and midi apps in my case, and I made the switch to Linux I guess about 2 years ago for this reason. It has mostly been a frustrating exercise, but the last couple weeks have been very promising, with the release of a std rt kernel from Ingo Molnar's yum repository and beta releases of ardour2 of ever increasing quality. And, as a substancial market for salable products (VST) already exists, it would be my hope that somehow methods could be developed that would make VST developers able to develop and sell easily into the Linux market. OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years, > and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the > 2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a > deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer > perspective. "Linux market has actually shrunk". Linux on the desktop seems to be stagnating, sure, but everywhere else seems to remain in growth mode. All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of > Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at least as far as > Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue > to grow exponentially... > > > Ico > > -- Mike Taht PostCards From the Bleeding Edge http://the-edge.blogspot.com "I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this [smiles and waves his fingers at Morden]. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" - Vir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061209/1f7fcc4c/attachment.html From mobarre at gmail.com Sun Dec 10 04:57:17 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Sun Dec 10 05:06:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <5969dc560612091403w5e415e3ajb2974b67be23147a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> <4579BD61.3020102@sbcglobal.net> <5969dc560612091403w5e415e3ajb2974b67be23147a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c808a150612100157w1c5e6bd9pdc787bd612ee730a@mail.gmail.com> On 12/9/06, we are wrote: > > > #!/bin/bash > > > > if [ -e /proc/asound/$HDSP ]; then > > qjackctl --preset=$HDSP > > else > > quackctl --preset=$ICH > > > > fi > > Yep, > thats exactly what i need. problem solved! > > thanks. > > tom. > To make it clear for users who have other types of cards, a generic syntax could be : #!/bin/bash if [ -e /proc/asound/$MY_REMOVABLE_CARD ]; then qjackctl --preset=$MY_REMOVABLE_CARD else quackctl --preset=$MY_DEFAULT_INTERNAL_CARD fi This is just what I needed to run jackd as a start up daemon... __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061210/466e13be/attachment.html From carotinobg at yahoo.it Sun Dec 10 06:55:44 2006 From: carotinobg at yahoo.it (Carotinho) Date: Sun Dec 10 06:54:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Delta 44 In-Reply-To: <457B0F91.5050204@rncbc.org> References: <20061207101843.76004.qmail@web52313.mail.yahoo.com> <200612092002.23728.carotinobg@yahoo.it> <457B0F91.5050204@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <200612101255.45131.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Alle 20:33, sabato 9 dicembre 2006, Rui Nuno Capela ha scritto: > even with 0 (zero) channel count? :) ^_^ ok this did the trick, just a bit counterintuitive:) I spent an hour last night to understand the meaning of the various channels that appears when running jack, and I almost did it. So, as far as concerning the writable ports, 1~8 are the PCM channels, and 9~10 is presumably the SPDIF, which is not actually present but shown by envy24control. On the other side, the first 4 capture lines come directly from the hw inputs, 11 ~ 12 seems to be the output of the digital mixer, but 5~10 are still unknown to me:) thanks you all:) Carotinho Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From chris at mccormick.cx Sun Dec 10 07:16:59 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Sun Dec 10 07:48:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <20061210121658.GA491@mccormick.cx> On Sat, Dec 09, 2006 at 12:15:54PM -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of > >> tamtam? I > > > >git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) > > I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". I always assumed that Linus named it "Git" after either Larry McVoy or Tridge (or both!). I get the impression he didn't think particularly highly of either of them after his workflow was interrupted so suddenly. Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From fbar at footils.org Sun Dec 10 08:20:52 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:26:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Juhana Sadeharju hat gesagt: // Juhana Sadeharju wrote: > > Found this recent Ph.D. thesis: > Juha Arrasvuori, Playing and making music: exploring the similarities > between video games and music-making software. > http://acta.uta.fi/pdf/951-44-6689-6.pdf Wow, thanks, this is very interesting. From a quick glance at the Table of Contents it seems, that the author unfortunatly only explored the similarities between "traditional" music making software as used in a recording studio, i.e. Multitrack recorders. What I personally would find interesting would be a comparison of instrument-like musik making software, that is, software that you can "play" like an instrument compared to "playing" a video game. Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers (mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a pianist in some cases. Anyone knows any papers in this direction? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 08:39:40 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:33:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061210121658.GA491@mccormick.cx> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> <20061210121658.GA491@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <457C0E1C.1010502@woh.rr.com> http://www.happypenguin.org/list?sort=category&search=kids http://www.tux4kids.com/ (old) http://www.linuxforkids.org/ (old) These are results from a fairly obvious Google search string. Best, dp From yoyo at xrousse.org Sun Dec 10 08:32:23 2006 From: yoyo at xrousse.org (Yo) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:34:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] first track made with Linux audio tools Message-ID: <457C0C67.4000207@xrousse.org> Hi Linux Audio users, Here is an extract of the first track I have mixed with a friend in my home studio. As it is my first track (and first try!), I am very proud of it, even if it's rather minimalist and very far from perfection..! If you have time, please listen it and give me our feeback on what could be improved, added, changed according to you... I am a beginner but very motivated to learn! Some details on how it was made: Voice recorded with an AKG C4000B Guitare recorded with a static AKG microphone (C1000S) M Audio 24/96 soundcard Acoustic bass recorded through a V-Amp. Ardour A piece of reverb on voice and bass Hydrogen Jamin http://www.xrousse.org/index.php?idArbo=mao_libre&view=viewone&id=19 Enjoy! -- Yohann http://www.xrousse.org | mailto:yo@xrousse.org | MSN yoyo@xrousse.org | GPG: 0x43D83E36 C'est toi le nouveau ? Je ne sais pas, je viens d'arriver -- Yohann http://www.xrousse.org | mailto:yo@xrousse.org | MSN yoyo@xrousse.org | GPG: 0x43D83E36 C'est toi le nouveau ? Je ne sais pas, je viens d'arriver From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 08:48:50 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:40:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> Frank Barknecht wrote: >Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers >(mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a >pianist in some cases. > Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and intention. Best, dp From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 08:53:21 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:44:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457C0E1C.1010502@woh.rr.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> <20061210121658.GA491@mccormick.cx> <457C0E1C.1010502@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <457C1151.8050408@woh.rr.com> Sorry, I forgot this one: http://www.microsoft.com I've been told they manufacture an operating system that's suitable for children. Closed-source, but what kid needs source code, right ? Oh, and it costs $$$, but hey, it's our kids we're talking about here. Think of the children, spend the money ! *This has been a public disservice announcement from Studio Dave. Not applicable in AR, MI, OH, and NY. Some restrictions apply.* From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sun Dec 10 08:48:04 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:48:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Chris McCormick: >On Sat, Dec 09, 2006 at 12:15:54PM -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: >> >michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: >> >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of >> >> tamtam? I >> > >> >git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers >> > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) >> >> I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". > >I always assumed that Linus named it "Git" after either Larry McVoy or >Tridge (or both!). I get the impression he didn't think particularly >highly of either of them after his workflow was interrupted so suddenly. > Actually, "git" is a swedish word meaning something like "extreme posession", or wanting something very bad. Its a word thats used frequently to describe the devils wish for souls. Quting from the online dictionary http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/ on "git": "BETYDELSE: fr? av svartkummin." Betydelse = Meaning Fr? = strong desire av = to have svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) And since Linus' native language is swedish, my guess is that this is his funny way to say that he has an evil desire to spread linux all over the world. Well, thats just my theory. :-) From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sun Dec 10 08:51:45 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:52:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2006, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote: > > Chris McCormick: > >On Sat, Dec 09, 2006 at 12:15:54PM -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> >michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of > >> >> tamtam? I > >> > > >> >git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers > >> > > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) > >> > >> I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". > > > >I always assumed that Linus named it "Git" after either Larry McVoy or > >Tridge (or both!). I get the impression he didn't think particularly > >highly of either of them after his workflow was interrupted so suddenly. > > > > Actually, "git" is a swedish word meaning something like "extreme > posession", or wanting something very bad. Its a word thats used > frequently to describe the devils wish for souls. > > Quting from the online dictionary http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/ > on "git": > "BETYDELSE: fr? av svartkummin." > > Betydelse = Meaning > Fr? = strong desire > av = to have > svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) > > Heres the direct link: http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/show.phtml?filenr=1/85/21669.html From fbar at footils.org Sun Dec 10 08:57:47 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Sun Dec 10 08:58:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Dave Phillips hat gesagt: // Dave Phillips wrote: > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > >Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers > >(mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a > >pianist in some cases. > > > Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the > talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to > instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and > intention. Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From markknecht at gmail.com Sun Dec 10 09:03:52 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Sun Dec 10 09:04:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612100603k26f55a4do7e11c08772571488@mail.gmail.com> On 12/10/06, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Dave Phillips hat gesagt: // Dave Phillips wrote: > > > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > > > >Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers > > >(mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a > > >pianist in some cases. > > > > > Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the > > talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to > > instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and > > intention. > > Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) > Fun, but he seems far more like a drummer than a piano player. - Mark From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 09:27:04 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 09:18:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <457C1938.4080002@woh.rr.com> Frank Barknecht wrote: >Dave Phillips hat gesagt: // Dave Phillips wrote: > > >>Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the >>talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to >>instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and >>intention. >> >> > >Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) > Yes, I've seen that video. Frank, that performance has more to do with playing the bongos than playing a piano. The assumption that playing an instrument is merely a matter of "the right fingers in the right places at the right time" is a little shy of what really goes into the production of timbre, particularly on instruments such as the guitar or the winds. Pianists are also quick to point out that tone is not only a result of the instrument per se but is determined to a great extent by the player's technique (this is profoundly true for classical guitarists). I think we can agree that the issue is one of dexterity. IMO a more apt comparison would be to typewriting. Of course it isn't as impressive or self-congratulatory as a comparison to Svatislov Richter, but I think it's nearer the true point. ;) Best, dp From fbar at footils.org Sun Dec 10 09:20:22 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Sun Dec 10 09:21:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612100603k26f55a4do7e11c08772571488@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> <5bdc1c8b0612100603k26f55a4do7e11c08772571488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061210142022.GB10763@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Mark Knecht hat gesagt: // Mark Knecht wrote: > On 12/10/06, Frank Barknecht wrote: > >Hallo, > >Dave Phillips hat gesagt: // Dave Phillips wrote: > > > >> Frank Barknecht wrote: > >> > >> >Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers > >> >(mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a > >> >pianist in some cases. > >> > > >> Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the > >> talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to > >> instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and > >> intention. > > > >Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) > > > > Fun, but he seems far more like a drummer than a piano player. But that's not the point! Of course I know the differences in intention and complexity between playing a video game well and playing the piano or drums well. But there also are strinking similarities: Both (may) require very good timing, a feeling for rhythm, learning complex gestures, concentrated listening and watching and a lot of exercising and rehearsals. (Some) video games as well as a traditional instrument act like "amplifiers" for human movements: a little flick with the finger will directly create a much larger reaction in sound and/or image. Researching what video games already have achieved in interfacing a human with software in my opinion is an important task if you want to create "playable" computer instruments. The Youtube video actually shows an example of the opposite approach where video game designers have looked at input methods of musical instruments to create their game. Why shouldn't computer instrument designers look at video games for similar inspiration? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From t_w_ at freenet.de Sun Dec 10 09:44:41 2006 From: t_w_ at freenet.de (Thorsten Wilms) Date: Sun Dec 10 09:45:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] first track made with Linux audio tools In-Reply-To: <457C0C67.4000207@xrousse.org> References: <457C0C67.4000207@xrousse.org> Message-ID: <20061210144441.GC5418@charly.SWORD> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 02:32:23PM +0100, Yo wrote: > > http://www.xrousse.org/index.php?idArbo=mao_libre&view=viewone&id=19 Hard to say much from this short piece. The instruments could be a bit stronger, perhaps, but OTOH the singer being very clear and up front is a good thing. Singing sounds a little pressed. A bit nervous I think, where there is no reason to, as I think it's very good otherwise. I like the timbre, which works very nice with the rather minimal instrumentation. Hope you will come back with more of this ;) -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil From chris at mccormick.cx Sun Dec 10 10:19:34 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Sun Dec 10 10:48:41 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 08:48:50AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > >Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their controllers > >(mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the virtuosity of, say, a > >pianist in some cases. > > > Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I respect the > talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I reject the comparison to > instrumental skill, it's simply not on the same order of complexity and > intention. There is probably no good way to qualitatively prove this either way, but I disagree. It very much depends on the game of course, but some games require a similar level of dexterity, creativity, and subtlety to become truly great and beat other human players. If you can call a virtuoso a genius, I beleive that the people who compete in some games on an international level must be called the same. If you have ever watch a master playing Quake3 you will know that this is true. Sergei Rachmaninoff eat your heart out! Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sun Dec 10 11:10:36 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Sun Dec 10 11:13:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2006, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote: > > Chris McCormick: > >On Sat, Dec 09, 2006 at 12:15:54PM -0800, michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> >michael@michaelshiloh.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote: > >> >> I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent of > >> >> tamtam? I > >> > > >> >git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers > >> > > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) > >> > >> I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get". > > > >I always assumed that Linus named it "Git" after either Larry McVoy or > >Tridge (or both!). I get the impression he didn't think particularly > >highly of either of them after his workflow was interrupted so suddenly. > > > > Actually, "git" is a swedish word meaning something like "extreme > posession", or wanting something very bad. Its a word thats used > frequently to describe the devils wish for souls. > > Quting from the online dictionary http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/ > on "git": > "BETYDELSE: fr? av svartkummin." > > Betydelse = Meaning > Fr? = strong desire > av = to have > svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) > Can't believe I actually wrote that. "svarkummin" means strong desire, or even evil desire, not "Fr?". "Fr?" is just the swedish word for "to", and "av" is the swedish word for "have". Better get some sleep. From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Sun Dec 10 11:30:43 2006 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Sun Dec 10 11:31:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <457C3633.2020603@boosthardware.com> Mathias Friman wrote: > On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 19:17 +0100, Leonard Ritter wrote: > >> On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: >>> Hello, >>> It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the >>> linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to >>> start using Linux for serious audio work. > > Where can you read about using Linux for serious audio work? It is for > sure not in the mainstream press around here. You have to be seriously > involved in the Linux community to see that there is a platform for > audio work on Linux. Perhaps I was just ignorant because I was not > interested in pursuing my old tracking-career during the 90's on Linux, > but as late as in July, all I knew about the Linux audio community was > the tiny little bit held by Audacity. > > Four or five months later, I have a decent low latency system that I can > use for hobby recording. I don't know how many more months it would take > me if I decided to go into audio development. > > [cut] > > Leonard: >> what you say is not true. they're coming. i migrated from windows to >> linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be >> more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or >> bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that >> windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help >> the people who just arrived to find a good start. > > The question is, where is this good start? If all the people on this > list got together to form a basic documentation of how to set up a > studio in Linux, you wouldn't have to answer the same questions over and > over again. :) Instead, as a new user, the only solution is endless > googling in largely outdated 30-row-textfiles that does not explain more > than is absolutely necessary. > > One cannot develop something one does not understand. > > Example: > When asking on this list where to find information about understanding > the .asoundrc-file, I get the answer: > "You shouldn't need .asoundrc. If you do, there's a bug in ALSA". > I got a helpful answer aswell, but that is not the point. > > Perhaps stupid questions deserve stupid answers, but that is not what I > asked. :) Before asking this question, I tried consulting the ALSA > developer docs, did endless googling on the subject and tried other > mailing-lists and forums. Maybe the information was out there and I just > didn't find it. And it may very well be completely unnecessary to know > anything about the .asoundrc-file, but when trying to ask stupid > questions and answer them through documentation, it is a bit > frustrating. No offence, you who answered me. :) > > Instead of getting questions about realtime kernels twenty times a year, > EVERY year, why not put together a documentation that new users can use? > One that is not written by Paul Winkler in 2000 and has references to > kernel 2.2.x > > The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here. I'd be happy to > compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some > material to start from. And you guys are the experts. > > Just my $/?0.02 > > Highest regards, > Mathias > > Hi Matthias, Your concerns are valid. The only way that they will be resolved is if you take the time to fix the documentation issues you have noticed or to send updates to the people who maintain the pages you find problems with. That is how the documents were created in the first place and it is the only way they will continue to evolve. If you are unable to contribute then you can harrass the owners but it doesn't make as much progress or impact in the long run. Cheers. -- Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. Http://www.boosthardware.com Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide ======================================== "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become reality" - Macka B From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 11:46:18 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 11:37:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> Chris McCormick wrote: >If you can call a virtuoso a genius, I beleive that the people who compete in some games >on an international level must be called the same. If you have ever >watch a master playing Quake3 you will know that this is true. Sergei >Rachmaninoff eat your heart out! > > Why would I call a virtuoso a genius ? A phenomenal level of practiced mechanical or gymnastic ability doesn't represent genius to me. YMMV. See Chernoff's "African Music And African Sensibility" for some enlightening commentary re: musical virtuosity. Best, dp From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 11:39:50 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 11:40:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <158277e20612091222o334bca28ibf51d64aa6b79ff3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002001c71c79$d032d000$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Actually, so far as audio is concerned, if Vista is incapable of low > latency operations I can see that pulling more developers to Linux and > Mac. XP already has a decent latency if you configure it right (which is the same argument we have for Linux, as even vanilla Linux needs to deal with rtlimits before you can generate good low-latency performance via jack). Furthermore, I would not hold my breath expecting Vista's poor audio performance, as everything I've seen so far suggests much better performance than XP. However, having maintained OS-agnostic lab, I can tell you XP can be configured to be a darn good low-latency machine. IMHO other aspects are what makes XP less desirable than Linux. Mac does not interest me either as I see it simply as another, commercially less successful version of XP: mostly closed, proprietary, locked-in, unreasonably expensive, and marginally posix-compliant which ultimately makes low-level administration a pain in the rear, needless to mention Steve's frequent freak-outs which help reaffirm the fact that Apple is a Microsoft wannabe (a thought which makes me shudder--Can you imagine a world where Apple has the market of Microsoft? Personal computer would likely still carry a price tag of a compact car!). > And, as a substancial market for salable products (VST) already exists, it > would be my hope that somehow methods could be developed that would make > VST developers able to develop and sell easily into the Linux market. VST framework for easy porting of VSTs already exists, but there is hardly any interest to use it due to our market's fiscal ineptness (think: how many *dedicated* linux audio users are there and more importantly how many of them would be willing to pay for a Linux-version of a closed/proprietary VST plug-in). > "Linux market has actually shrunk". Linux on the desktop seems to be > stagnating, sure, but everywhere else seems to remain in growth mode. True, but "everywhere else" has absolutely no impact on what we need, namely desktop environment with good solid audio framework coupled with supporting software. If anything, it may very well detract from our goals as companies will continue to pour money only into those aspects of Linux which matter to them (and I can assure you audio is somewhere at the bottom of that barrel). Best wishes, Ico From lanas at securenet.net Sun Dec 10 12:53:20 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sun Dec 10 12:48:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <457C1151.8050408@woh.rr.com> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <20061209175615.GA1674@replic.net> <457B11A2.1030604@sonaural.com> <457B16A7.6000103@sonaural.com> <20061210121658.GA491@mccormick.cx> <457C0E1C.1010502@woh.rr.com> <457C1151.8050408@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061210125320.5e5a10fc@mistral.stie> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:53:21 -0500 Dave Phillips ?crivait: > http://www.microsoft.com > > I've been told they manufacture an operating system that's suitable > for children. Quite funny but ironically Alan Kay, who invented, at Xerox way back then, the first icons, mouse interfaces and graphic rectangles in which programs show their output and interacts with the user (eg. graphical windows) has made that for kids. So you're not that far off the truth there ;-) Cheers, Al From carotinobg at yahoo.it Sun Dec 10 12:57:32 2006 From: carotinobg at yahoo.it (Carotinho) Date: Sun Dec 10 12:56:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] E-MU Xmidi 1x1 USB In-Reply-To: <1165512363l.5454l.1l@paldesk> References: <1165512363l.5454l.1l@paldesk> Message-ID: <200612101857.32498.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Hi! The manual of this midi interface says it needs no driver with MacOs (but indeed it requires drivers for Windows XP). Does this means it will work with the standard usb-midi driver? thanks:) Carotinho Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From lanas at securenet.net Sun Dec 10 13:02:17 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sun Dec 10 12:57:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:32:45 +0100 Mathias Friman ?crivait: > Perhaps Jokosher would do the trick? Don't know whether this app has > any swedish locale, and perhaps it's a bit too advanced for 6-7 > yearolds, but it is worth a look: > > http://www.jokosher.org/ Looks quite Nice and Easy (tm). Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux world ? I mean, these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, period. They did not bother trying other major distros to provide adjustments and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE. Will we see in five years from now Ubuntu users that know nothing about Fedora and whose applications are specifically made for Ubuntu, the distro itself developing more and more specific aspects of itself that makes it involved to 'port' applications to other Linux distros ? And vice-versa. SuSE apps difficult to install on Fedora (after all Red Hat said no to Microsoft...), so on so forth ? Well, if that's the case, I'd better be forwarned and immediately switch to GoboLinux. Now, this is really distinct ! ;-) Cheers, Al From lanas at securenet.net Sun Dec 10 13:05:13 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Sun Dec 10 13:00:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20061210130513.651ba0a2@mistral.stie> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 17:10:36 +0100 (CET) Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen ?crivait: > > Betydelse = Meaning > > Fr? = strong desire > > av = to have > > svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) > > > > Can't believe I actually wrote that. "svarkummin" means strong > desire, or even evil desire, not "Fr?". "Fr?" is just the swedish > word for "to", and "av" is the swedish word for "have". Better get > some sleep. Whoa ! You corrected just in time ! I was about to send that e-mail to this beautiful Swedish lady... Cheers, Al From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sun Dec 10 13:08:46 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sun Dec 10 13:09:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457C3633.2020603@boosthardware.com> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <457C3633.2020603@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <1165774127.2138.81.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 23:30 +0700, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > Hi Mathias, > > Your concerns are valid. The only way that they will be resolved is if > you take the time to fix the documentation issues you have noticed or to > send updates to the people who maintain the pages you find problems with. I've tried that approach with for instance ladspavst.linuxaudio.org. However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki. Currently though, I'm working on a admin-solution and a new layout for the linux-sound.org site, and Dave and I had a dialog for a while. That was some time before he announced that he would step down, so now i don't know what the status is. Is anyone else working on this? I saw the discussion earlier. I'm also trying to write a swedish manual for linux audio work, currently at http://linux-daw.blogspot.com so I'm not short of things to do. ;) > That is how the documents were created in the first place and it is the > only way they will continue to evolve. > > If you are unable to contribute then you can harrass the owners but it > doesn't make as much progress or impact in the long run. > I hope you are not feeling harassed by me. :) That was not the purpose of my rant. > Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. > Http://www.boosthardware.com > Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide So how do I contribute to your Linux Audio User Guide? I really like the idea, and some of the things on the site. I'd like to suggest some improvements though. I'll do that in a private email instead of on the list, if you are interested? Regards, Mathias From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sun Dec 10 13:19:34 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sun Dec 10 13:11:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] rebuilding the linux soundapps site Message-ID: <457C4FB6.90205@woh.rr.com> Greetings: I've received a few notes that indicate people are interested in revising the look & feel of the site at linux-sound.org. If you're currently working on such a project *please* make your intentions public. There are at least two projects working towards the same end, and this is truly one wheel that does not need reinvention. Better that folks work together on it. Best, dp From lau at kudla.org Sun Dec 10 15:47:11 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Sun Dec 10 15:53:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> On Sunday 10 December 2006 08:48, Dave Phillips wrote: > Sorry, Frank, but I'll call bull-hockey on this statement. I > respect the talents necessary to become a good gamer, but I > reject the comparison to instrumental skill, it's simply not > on the same order of complexity and intention. Yeah, I've been a gamer all my life (almost literally... the first home videogame came out in 1972, when I was 3, and my parents bought it... and I got my first job 9 years later just to have quarters for the arcade.) I've been playing and/or writing music for most of that time as well. I enjoy Guitar Hero and DDR and the ocarina parts in Zelda, as simple as they are. But there's a huge difference between even the most complicated controller with two joysticks and 16 buttons, and the 88 velocity-sensitive keys of a piano or the six strings and innumerable chords and techniques of a guitar. On the other hand, except for improv or maybe the kind of playing where you have to sight-read something without having rehearsed it first, there's really nothing in music that requires the kind of response time necessary to play the more twitchy videogames, like shooters and fighters. You're executing a predetermined, practiced performance of something that's been previously scripted, for the most part, and it's your interpretation of that performance that makes it art rather than mimickry. You're not responding to new and unexpected stimuli except in the above-mentioned cases. I think that videogames are easier to master overall, though, because they have clearly-defined success and failure conditions. You can play a musical passage to absolute perfection and still have people going, "I dunno, it seemed kinda stiff." With games, you just have the computer judging you either through your character living or dying or by more direct performance criteria ("Perfect: 227! OK: 8! Miss: 1!"), but with music, you just have your audience and yourself. This is why I think computers are an ideal start to music education, since they give immediate feedback and you can make a DDR-like game out of it, but with current technology you need more than a computer to evaluate you. In the end, the two fields of endeavor are just different, even if some of the basic skills may appear similar. Video games may have more in common with music than, say, a real life game of basketball, but I think the thought processes are still closer to sport than art. I bet that the Wii remote will make an awesome (but still not right-on) virtual theremin possible pretty soon, though. Then we'll start seeing how you can mix musical performance and videogames in more meaningful ways than "press the buttons in time with the lights." Rob From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sun Dec 10 16:06:24 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:06:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <1165784784.2138.91.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 17:10 +0100, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote: > > Betydelse = Meaning > > Fr? = strong desire > > av = to have > > svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) > > > > Can't believe I actually wrote that. "svarkummin" means strong > desire, or even evil desire, not "Fr?". "Fr?" is just the swedish word for > "to", and "av" is the swedish word for "have". Better get some sleep. I'm sorry, but how do you interpret it into this? :) Fr? = seed av = of svartkummin = a seed of Nigella Sativa Lin., used as a medical herb in the old days.. At least according to my book. ;) Ah, nevermind. Kindest regards, Mathias From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 16:13:08 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:13:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] RE: [linux-audio-dev] rebuilding the linux soundapps site In-Reply-To: <457C4FB6.90205@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <000301c71c9f$fe3236f0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Adoption of linux-sound.org into linuxaudio.org is a continuing standing offer, but obviously this is something that the community needs to embrace, rather than having a hostile takeover which will leave a sour aftertaste in everyone's mouths. Provided that the community is fine with this, the proposed course of action would be as follows: 1)generate apps.linuxaudio.org subdomain and port over a summary list of the applications (similar to Dave's format) 2) plug every listed app to the docs.linuxaudio.org wiki where we would build largest and most comprehensive documentation database Alternately, we could simply do everything inside docs.linuxaudio.org, but I feel that the usefulness of Dave's pages would be somewhat lost unless the docs would also have a nice categorized listing of available apps. Best wishes, Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-audio-dev-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio-dev- > bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Phillips > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 1:20 PM > To: LAD Mail List; LAU Mail List > Subject: [linux-audio-dev] rebuilding the linux soundapps site > > Greetings: > > I've received a few notes that indicate people are interested in > revising the look & feel of the site at linux-sound.org. > > If you're currently working on such a project *please* make your > intentions public. There are at least two projects working towards the > same end, and this is truly one wheel that does not need reinvention. > Better that folks work together on it. > > Best, > > dp From finnendahl at folkwang-hochschule.de Sun Dec 10 16:14:51 2006 From: finnendahl at folkwang-hochschule.de (Orm Finnendahl) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:16:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457C1938.4080002@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1938.4080002@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061210211451.GB14795@grisey> Hi Frank, > >Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) Frank, you can't be serious! All that kid is obviously trying do to is to rhythmically sync playing 9 huge buttons with his whole hand to the 16th notes of the right hand part of the Fantasy Impromptus of Chopin (among others). Have you ever seen somebody do a Chopin, controlling 88 rather small keys with ten fingers in a predefined order? Not even the mechanical issues can remotely be compared to the complexity of piano playing (or any other instrument). And apart from common belief, the sportive aspect is not really the hard part of playing an instrument: Yesterday a friend of mine came over to check out my new Grand Piano. Unlike me he is an (admittedly exceptional) professional pianist and it was quite frustrating to hear him play a piece lying on the note stand, which I had been studying before he came. After 20+ years of training I'm more or less able to play such a piece, but to hear the subtelties of his dynamic and harmonic control was mind blowing, especially as he was sight reading a virtuoso piece from the 19th century, (which took me quite a while to learn). Telling him my frustration he told me that he can relate to that quite well as he experienced the same when he had lessons with his his former teacher (who had studied at the Paris Conservatoire at age 12)... -- Orm From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 16:17:23 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:17:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165774127.2138.81.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > I've tried that approach with for instance ladspavst.linuxaudio.org. > However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase > readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki. Do you mind saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts ladspavst, it is not administrated by the linuxaudio.org personnel, but by Tim Orford. Still, in the ongoing effort to consolidate resources, it is concerning to hear that community efforts are being discouraged... Best wishes, Ico From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 16:20:19 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:20:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165774127.2138.81.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <000501c71ca0$ff237f50$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Forgot to mention that Linuxaudio.org is still looking for more webmasters and/or maintainers, so if you feel like you have the time and energy to contribute to one of our missions which is to consolidate linux audio resources, I would strongly encourage you (and others!) to please contact me. Best wishes, Ico From ka1iic at prexar.com Sun Dec 10 17:41:43 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Sun Dec 10 16:39:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210211451.GB14795@grisey> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1938.4080002@woh.rr.com> <20061210211451.GB14795@grisey> Message-ID: I have to agree with Orm on this one... sporting has more to do with reflex and muscular response (hand/eye coordination) and music playing uses the same skills for sure but goes to the more deep emotional levels. To play an instrument and play it well, one must become part of the emotions that the composer or player means to place forward. As the old time R&B folks said; "ya gotta have soul son... soul". But what do I know?... I was playing Bluegrass guitar and a Jazz University 73 ('good wishes' in radio speak) Wado! ('thank you' in Cherokee speak) vince a.k.a. Wesa ka1iic@prexar.com > Hi Frank, > >>> Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) > > Frank, you can't be serious! All that kid is obviously trying do to is > to rhythmically sync playing 9 huge buttons with his whole hand to the > 16th notes of the right hand part of the Fantasy Impromptus of Chopin > (among others). Have you ever seen somebody do a Chopin, controlling > 88 rather small keys with ten fingers in a predefined order? Not even > the mechanical issues can remotely be compared to the complexity of > piano playing (or any other instrument). > > And apart from common belief, the sportive aspect is not really the > hard part of playing an instrument: Yesterday a friend of mine came > over to check out my new Grand Piano. Unlike me he is an (admittedly > exceptional) professional pianist and it was quite frustrating to hear > him play a piece lying on the note stand, which I had been studying > before he came. After 20+ years of training I'm more or less able to > play such a piece, but to hear the subtelties of his dynamic and > harmonic control was mind blowing, especially as he was sight reading > a virtuoso piece from the 19th century, (which took me quite a while > to learn). Telling him my frustration he told me that he can relate to > that quite well as he experienced the same when he had lessons with > his his former teacher (who had studied at the Paris Conservatoire at > age 12)... > > -- > Orm > From v2 at iki.fi Sun Dec 10 17:09:37 2006 From: v2 at iki.fi (Sampo Savolainen) Date: Sun Dec 10 17:24:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <1165788577.6054.5.camel@mustis> On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 13:02 -0500, lanas wrote: > Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux world ? I mean, > these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, period. > They did not bother trying other major distros to provide adjustments > and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE. I'm sure the documentation is available for the distributions the author of the docs is using. There's really nothing more sinister than that going on, I'm sure. And nowadays, most people don't really need installation documentation. You can just say "open your distributions package manager and select install [insert name of application]" Sampo From mathias.friman at knorca.se Sun Dec 10 17:14:46 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Sun Dec 10 17:30:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <1165788887.2138.109.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 16:17 -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > I've tried that approach with for instance ladspavst.linuxaudio.org. > > However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase > > readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki. > > Do you mind saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts > ladspavst, it is not administrated by the linuxaudio.org personnel, but by > Tim Orford. Still, in the ongoing effort to consolidate resources, it is > concerning to hear that community efforts are being discouraged... Don't put too much weight into that, as stated, all I did was a CSS-file that changed the colours and spacings for the tables at ladspavst... I posted it using the feedback-link on the page and included my email. It is very possible that the message didn't even get through.. Facts are: 1. I posted my CSS-file on the ladspavst.linuxaudio.org site 2. I did not get an answer, and 3. nothing has yet happened to the site As Samuel L. Jackson said in The Long Kiss Goodnight, "when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you, and -umption." But I assumed that my contribution to the site was not accepted. No hard feelings. :) Regarding the webmastering, I just might be interested, but I'm not sure that I can put in the effort required. I am of the opinion that the Linux audio community should gain from having a consistent layout on the sites, perhaps even a set of prominent links like for instance the OSDL-sites. This would require some serious work. How many people are involved today? Regards, Mathias From karl at aspodata.se Sun Dec 10 17:26:05 2006 From: karl at aspodata.se (Karl Hammar) Date: Sun Dec 10 17:39:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: References: <20061210133430.B5CC84B6851C@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20061210222605.EA676478A3@aspodata.se> Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen: > On Sun, 10 Dec 2006, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote: ... > > Actually, "git" is a swedish word meaning something like "extreme > > posession", or wanting something very bad. Its a word thats used > > frequently to describe the devils wish for souls. > > > > Quting from the online dictionary http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/ > > on "git": > > "BETYDELSE: fr? av svartkummin." > > > > Betydelse = Meaning > > Fr? = strong desire > > av = to have > > svartkummin = evil desire ("svart"=evil and "kummin"=desire) > > > > Can't believe I actually wrote that. "svarkummin" means strong > desire, or even evil desire, not "Fr?". "Fr?" is just the swedish word for > "to", and "av" is the swedish word for "have". Better get some sleep. > This is dead wrong or nothing in common use in today swedish. The link above says that git is an archaic word for "svartkummin" which is the plant "Nigella sativa" (Lin.). Regards, /Karl ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Karl Hammar Asp? Data karl@aspodata.se Lilla Asp? 2340 Networks S-742 94 ?sthammar +46 173 140 57 Computers Sweden +46 70 511 97 84 Consulting ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 10 17:53:36 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 10 18:02:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. Message-ID: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've started to convert the information from linux-sound.org into a distributable doku-wiki. http://linux-sound.sonologic.nl/ This is a prototype installation and experimental suggestion! Please review and comment before further development proceeds. ** content information ** it's basically a database of http://linux-sound.org chopped up into text files. I have added URLs to [external] screenshots and logos to some pages and updated or deleted a few dead links.. it's still a long way to go, but some tasks could be semi-automated (fi. searching for dead links..) I am open to suggestions on how to maintain the content. This prototype is open for editing to all registered users (email verification). I can share experiences or rewrite and improve the dokuwiki to some extend, and may contribute to content but not on a day to day basis. patches, suggestions and comments are welcome. ** design/layout look&feel ** no efforts have been taken to change the default dokuwiki look and feel. Is anyone interested in a) designing and writing a dokuwiki template b) start a discussion on aims and goals for good user interaction design c) create a wiki-page to host a design contest d) rewriting the dokuwiki template ;-) ** technical- and mirror information. ** The data set is a 20MB git repository. dokuwiki keeps it's data in txt files. I've started to put them under git version control. The idea for mirror-sites is to check out and branch their wiki while maintainers can merge information upstream. dokuwiki only requires php. The wiki itself is available as a separate git repository (incl. pre-installed plugins and config) - the independent data-set git repos should work with every dokuwiki installation. The whole system including generated-meta data is about 50 MB. more information: http://linux-sound.sonologic.nl/devel:git http://linux-sound.sonologic.nl/devel:setup #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFfI+seVUk8U+VK0IRAgrzAKDEF5aI9h8yZOis11v+T+GRTugL3wCfVc/z N/dkTVHWwZMWz9ca8iVnDcY= =z/Nj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 18:49:12 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 18:49:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165788887.2138.109.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <000a01c71cb5$cba401d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Regarding the webmastering, I just might be interested, but I'm not sure > that I can put in the effort required. I am of the opinion that the > Linux audio community should gain from having a consistent layout on the > sites, perhaps even a set of prominent links like for instance the > OSDL-sites. This would require some serious work. How many people are > involved today? Linuxaudio.org has a small active staff and until very recently it was predominantly a one-man show. I am hoping to change this as for one I am really getting burned out and two, I want to utilize my energy on other pressing and likely more important matters, such as incorporation of the organization as a non-profit entity and fund-raising. Unfortunately, even though we had a successful first round of recruiting volunteers, we are hardly at a point where I can say linuxaudio.org has adequate staffing. Regarding consistency, I am very much interested in that but putting some more thought into it (which was in part inspired by the discussion on the consortium list), I feel like total standardization may not be a good idea not only because some of the consolidated websites' webmasters do not feel inclined to do so, but also because we want the consortium to also reflect the freedom and variety Linux audio offers. Hence, standardization as such will likely come in something more subtle (i.e. logo plus perhaps some kind of a subtle corner css menu thingy). That being said, we've not tackled this yet, hence your contributions/ideas are more than welcome. Best wishes, Ico From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 21:00:22 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:12:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> (Robin Gareus's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:53:36 +0100 (MET)") References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> Message-ID: <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> Robin Gareus writes: > open for editing to all registered users How is the one we already have, not perfect? Why register on a wiki, as it'll only give us less contributors? -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 21:09:33 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:21:43 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> (Frank Barknecht's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:20:52 +0100") References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> Frank Barknecht writes: > Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their > controllers (mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the > virtuosity of, say, a pianist in some cases. Indeed;) -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 21:23:07 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:35:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> (Dave Phillips's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 11:46:18 -0500") References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> Dave Phillips writes: > A phenomenal level of practiced mechanical or gymnastic ability > doesn't represent genius to me. I'm not sure if I understand you correct, but first person action is an art and requires intelligence and the ability to think very quick and structured. Taking down and outsmarting a whole platoon is an art. The way you move and think has artistic value. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 21:27:44 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:40:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:17:23 -0500") References: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87r6v7upy7.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > linuxaudio.org How about putting up a wiki.linuxaudio.org where you don't have to friggin' register?;). I sure would put stuff in there. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 21:31:32 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:43:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:17:23 -0500") References: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87mz5vuprv.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > linuxaudio.org fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may interact with the new users from a mailing list. Also, for GNU audio applications, why is there no link to the Audio and MIDI software wiki from there?. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From fons at kokkinizita.net Sun Dec 10 19:55:34 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sun Dec 10 19:52:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 03:09:33AM +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > Frank Barknecht writes: > > > Good gamers reach incredible levels of virtuosity with their > > controllers (mouse, gamepad etc.) that really compare to the > > virtuosity of, say, a pianist in some cases. > > Indeed;) Mmmm. Virtuosity is more than speed, reflexes, and acrobatics. Playing an instrument involves more than virtuosity. Music is about more than knowing how to play an instrument. To stay with pianists, just listen to Radu Lupu playing Schubert, e.g. the Moments Musicaux. Not very difficult technically, when compared to some other piano music. Then listen how each and every note is carefully controlled and phrased. It gives me the shivers when I hear this. To compare this to the skills of a gamer seems a joke to me. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From chris at mccormick.cx Sun Dec 10 20:13:13 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Sun Dec 10 20:30:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20061211011313.GD5864@mccormick.cx> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 03:47:11PM -0500, Rob wrote: > In the end, the two fields of endeavor are just different, even > if some of the basic skills may appear similar. Video games may > have more in common with music than, say, a real life game of > basketball, but I think the thought processes are still closer > to sport than art. Well I guess I should plug my project 'ergates' which is at a pretty early (but playable) stage. It's a game-like audiovisual synthesiser created in Puredata, using Gem. http://mccormick.cx/projects/ergates/ Basically you use a USB gamepad to jam weird noises and visuals. If anyone wants to contribute instruments to this project I would be really happy! Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From b0ef at esben-stien.name Sun Dec 10 22:28:32 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Sun Dec 10 20:40:41 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> (Fons Adriaensen's message of "Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:55:34 +0100") References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> Fons Adriaensen writes: > It gives me the shivers when I hear this. To compare this to the > skills of a gamer seems a joke to me. I disagree wholeheartedly;). As a die hard free software first person action gamer, I find what I do to be an art; just as my jujutsu is an art, which is not just about hitting someone in the head. A gamer is a new thing and to get respect for the art is hard, as what is generally the impression is just kids playing computers;). I guess only a gamer can respect the artistic value;). You may have the impression that first person action is just running around dumb, shooting stuff, but please be a little more open and acknowledge that there are gamers who don't have this view. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From mle+la at mega-nerd.com Sun Dec 10 20:43:34 2006 From: mle+la at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Sun Dec 10 20:43:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87mz5vuprv.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87mz5vuprv.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <20061211124334.96b0de23.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> Esben Stien wrote: > fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are > most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people > generally despise web forums, Thats sounds like me. > so put up a gateway, so that we may > interact with the new users from a mailing list. I have never seen one of these gateways work at all well. I susbscribe to about 5 mailing lists that push froum posts onto the mailing lists and for all of those I end up adding a procmail rule to /dev/null the forum posts. The main problem with these forum posts is that they don't thread properly, don't quote context and the quality of the posts is well below that of the people who actually bother to subscribe to the lists. There was one other mailing list where I actually unsubscribed from the list because the forum posts screwed the whole thing up too badly. Erik -- +-----------------------------------------------------------+ Erik de Castro Lopo +-----------------------------------------------------------+ The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place. - Douglas Adams in Guardian, 25-Aug-95 From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 10 20:51:48 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 10 20:51:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <457CB96F.6080502@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Esben Stien wrote: > Robin Gareus writes: > >> open for editing to all registered users > > How is the one we already have, not perfect? > > Why register on a wiki, as it'll only give us less contributors? good point. because this is a devel. version and I don't want to completely open it for spammers right away. registration will be replaced by CAPTCHA in future versions. #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFfLlveVUk8U+VK0IRAuQyAKCDEvb7JLBj8L2y7jL+3cgdGQCEXwCfT+Ld D/k+0MVko2y06J/w6380pyk= =Jr0m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 21:10:37 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 21:11:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87r6v7upy7.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <000d01c71cc9$8ca0ef70$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > > > linuxaudio.org > > How about putting up a wiki.linuxaudio.org where you don't have to > friggin' register?;). I sure would put stuff in there. In theory that would be great and personally have no problem with that (I am not even aware of any *.linuxaudio.org sites that are under direct control of the consortium and require registration), but then what is to prevent rotten apples from mangling Wiki with their Viagra ads? Is registering really that much of an overhead when you have an ability to keep the session stored in your cookies? Ico From ico at vt.edu Sun Dec 10 21:14:42 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Sun Dec 10 21:14:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87mz5vuprv.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <000e01c71cca$1ea6ae00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are > most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people > generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may > interact with the new users from a mailing list. Please pardon my ignorance, but by fora do you mean a plural of forum? If so, I have absolutely no problem with that provided we have enough interest among the community to make it worthwhile and as long as I am not who has to implement/maintain it. If so, the consortium will gladly provide space/account for the maintainer. > Also, for GNU audio applications, why is there no link to the Audio > and MIDI software wiki from there?. Which wiki? Best wishes, Ico From robin at gareus.org Sun Dec 10 21:37:47 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun Dec 10 21:38:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000e01c71cca$1ea6ae00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <000e01c71cca$1ea6ae00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457CC437.6010907@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >> fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are >> most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people >> generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may >> interact with the new users from a mailing list. > > Please pardon my ignorance, but by fora do you mean a plural of forum? it must be. at least that's correct Latin. I agree with Eric's that forums (English plural) usually lower the quality of posts dramatically. though this is not true for blogs (and comments - well most of them - good example is the php manual) point is: there are many good things (TM) but no clear solution to merge mailing lists, web discussions, RSS feeds, docbook,.. you name it. at least none that would not involve major human resources.. hope you can prove me wrong on this. robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFfMQ3eVUk8U+VK0IRAg0+AKCW74391SJ/gcd7maRDXrr3ikGjPQCff6Jx 66PwkX7CqAAiXstdPtHDrC8= =2M4P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brad at sonaural.com Sun Dec 10 21:52:42 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Sun Dec 10 21:52:41 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <457CC7FA.1030800@sonaural.com> Esben Stien wrote: > Fons Adriaensen writes: > >> It gives me the shivers when I hear this. To compare this to the >> skills of a gamer seems a joke to me. > > I disagree wholeheartedly;). As a die hard free software first person > action gamer, I find what I do to be an art; just as my jujutsu is an > art, which is not just about hitting someone in the head. A gamer is a > new thing and to get respect for the art is hard, as what is generally > the impression is just kids playing computers;). > > I guess only a gamer can respect the artistic value;). You may have > the impression that first person action is just running around dumb, > shooting stuff, but please be a little more open and acknowledge that > there are gamers who don't have this view. > Gee, I clearly don't want to discount the skills of a gamer. I've been in the business of video game development since 1982, I know the business and those who play games. I also went to music school and am classically trained. I won't elaborate any more on my background, it sounds too crass ;-) I'm sure you'll all agree that there is quite a bit of skill to learning a musical instrument. There's no argument here, right. But, the art of expressing a piece of music with the skills one has toiled many years to acquire is clearly not the same as the skills acquired playing a video game(s) and the act of playing the game. Perhaps people are mixing the definition of "skills" with the true meaning of "art". They are not the same. Then I ask: what art are you expressing when playing a game? -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 01:20:16 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Mon Dec 11 01:20:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8200bab70612102220s5f3fa2c0g87a04d498493355b@mail.gmail.com> I think the only thing that keeps people from using Linux for audio work is the interfaces of the programs, and to a lesser extent that of the OS. That's the only thing that is added with each new blockbuster version of the commercial apps. A few algorithms here and there is nothing special. It's the ability to have half of this pane and half of that, or edit two things at once, or hide tracks, or add nodes to an envelope superimposed over the track, that makes people's work time more efficient. Actually I lied: the other thing keeping people from using Linux for serious audio work is that there's no one to yell at when something doesn't work. On 12/9/06, Tim Howard wrote: > Hello, > It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the > linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to > start using Linux for serious audio work. > > The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are > developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but > they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For > example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just > stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to > their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of > maintaining support for another OS... > > So I was wondering if there was any ongoing "official" effort to > pull these developers over to the light side. Would a bounty help > persuade them? Any thoughts? > > -TimH > -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt From cladisch at fastmail.net Mon Dec 11 03:47:02 2006 From: cladisch at fastmail.net (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon Dec 11 03:47:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] E-MU Xmidi 1x1 USB In-Reply-To: <200612101857.32498.carotinobg@yahoo.it> References: <1165512363l.5454l.1l@paldesk> <200612101857.32498.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: <1165826822.31109.279842311@webmail.messagingengine.com> Carotinho wrote: > The manual of this midi interface says it needs no driver with MacOs (but > indeed it requires drivers for Windows XP). Does this means it will work with > the standard usb-midi driver? If it works with the built-in OS X driver, it implements the standard USB MIDI protocol and will also work with Linux. I don't know why Creative bothered to write a Windows driver, but I guess they just wanted to add all the crap they also put into their other Windows drivers. HTH, Clemens From t_w_ at freenet.de Mon Dec 11 03:58:33 2006 From: t_w_ at freenet.de (Thorsten Wilms) Date: Mon Dec 11 04:00:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] rebuilding the linux soundapps site In-Reply-To: <457C4FB6.90205@woh.rr.com> References: <457C4FB6.90205@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061211085833.GA5423@charly.SWORD> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 01:19:34PM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > Greetings: > > I've received a few notes that indicate people are interested in > revising the look & feel of the site at linux-sound.org. I would be interested in helping with design a bit, but as things are, I will wait until the dust settles :) -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil From mobarre at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 05:02:30 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Mon Dec 11 05:02:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <3c808a150612110202x3dcf51a8hd82e8c9603485ebf@mail.gmail.com> On 12/11/06, Esben Stien wrote: > Robin Gareus writes: > > > open for editing to all registered users > > How is the one we already have, not perfect? It's nice, but it will need to evolve, since software also evolves. > Why register on a wiki, as it'll only give us less contributors? And why do you think LA* lists are moderated (especially LAA) ? Do you know how much spam I filter out every day to keep your mailboxes Nice and Clean (tm) ? Cheers, __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From martin at getyourbadge.net Mon Dec 11 05:37:01 2006 From: martin at getyourbadge.net (martin) Date: Mon Dec 11 05:35:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Xitel Pro Hifi-link playing mono, not stereo (Fedora Core 6) In-Reply-To: <44177.192.168.1.5.1165610233.squirrel@getyourbadge.net> References: <45793514.1040200@getyourbadge.net> <1165602730.3538.279565233@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44177.192.168.1.5.1165610233.squirrel@getyourbadge.net> Message-ID: <457D34CD.3080102@getyourbadge.net> An update: Here's the output from amixer; does this shed any light? ------------ snip-------------------- Simple mixer control 'PCM',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 255 Mono: Front Left: Playback 191 [75%] [on] Front Right: Playback 191 [75%] [on] ? martin@getyourbadge.net wrote: > Thanks for the reply, here's the output. > > > --------------snip--------------- > > # lsusb -v > > Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 1.10 > bDeviceClass 9 Hub > bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused > bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0000 > idProduct 0x0000 > bcdDevice 2.06 > iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd > iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller > iSerial 1 0000:00:10.3 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 25 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xe0 > Self Powered > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 0mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 9 Hub > bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused > bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes > bInterval 255 > Hub Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 41 > nNbrPorts 2 > wHubCharacteristic 0x000a > No power switching (usb 1.0) > Per-port overcurrent protection > bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds > bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere > DeviceRemovable 0xc0 > PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 > Hub Port Status: > Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power > Port 2: 0000.0103 power enable connect > > Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0c45:1700 Microdia > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 1.10 > bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) > bDeviceSubClass 0 > bDeviceProtocol 0 > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0c45 Microdia > idProduct 0x1700 > bcdDevice 1.00 > iManufacturer 0 > iProduct 1 USB Audio > iSerial 0 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 144 > bNumInterfaces 3 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xa0 > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 100mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 0 > bInterfaceClass 1 Audio > bInterfaceSubClass 1 Control Device > bInterfaceProtocol 0 > iInterface 0 > AudioControl Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER) > bcdADC 1.00 > wTotalLength 49 > bInCollection 1 > baInterfaceNr( 0) 1 > AudioControl Interface Descriptor: > bLength 12 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL) > bTerminalID 1 > wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming > bAssocTerminal 0 > bNrChannels 2 > wChannelConfig 0x0003 > Left Front (L) > Right Front (R) > iChannelNames 0 > iTerminal 0 > AudioControl Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) > bTerminalID 5 > wTerminalType 0x0605 SPDIF interface > bAssocTerminal 0 > bSourceID 1 > iTerminal 0 > AudioControl Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) > bTerminalID 6 > wTerminalType 0x0301 Speaker > bAssocTerminal 0 > bSourceID 9 > iTerminal 0 > AudioControl Interface Descriptor: > bLength 10 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 6 (FEATURE_UNIT) > bUnitID 9 > bSourceID 1 > bControlSize 1 > bmaControls( 0) 0x01 > Mute > bmaControls( 1) 0x02 > Volume > bmaControls( 2) 0x02 > Volume > iFeature 0 > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 1 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 0 > bInterfaceClass 1 Audio > bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming > bInterfaceProtocol 0 > iInterface 0 > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 1 > bAlternateSetting 1 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 1 Audio > bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming > bInterfaceProtocol 0 > iInterface 0 > AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) > bTerminalLink 1 > bDelay 3 frames > wFormatTag 1 PCM > AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: > bLength 11 > bDescriptorType 36 > bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) > bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) > bNrChannels 2 > bSubframeSize 2 > bBitResolution 16 > bSamFreqType 1 Discrete > tSamFreq[ 0] 48000 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT > bmAttributes 9 > Transfer Type Isochronous > Synch Type Adaptive > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x00c8 1x 200 bytes > bInterval 1 > bRefresh 0 > bSynchAddress 0 > AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 37 > bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) > bmAttributes 0x00 > bLockDelayUnits 1 Milliseconds > wLockDelay 4 Milliseconds > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 2 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Devices > bInterfaceSubClass 0 No Subclass > bInterfaceProtocol 0 None > iInterface 0 > HID Device Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 33 > bcdHID 1.00 > bCountryCode 0 Not supported > bNumDescriptors 1 > bDescriptorType 34 Report > wDescriptorLength 48 > Report Descriptors: > ** UNAVAILABLE ** > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0003 1x 3 bytes > bInterval 32 > > Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 1.10 > bDeviceClass 9 Hub > bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused > bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0000 > idProduct 0x0000 > bcdDevice 2.06 > iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd > iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller > iSerial 1 0000:00:10.0 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 25 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xe0 > Self Powered > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 0mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 9 Hub > bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused > bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes > bInterval 255 > Hub Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 41 > nNbrPorts 2 > wHubCharacteristic 0x000a > No power switching (usb 1.0) > Per-port overcurrent protection > bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds > bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere > DeviceRemovable 0xc0 > PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 > Hub Port Status: > Port 1: 0000.0100 power > Port 2: 0000.0100 power > > Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 1.10 > bDeviceClass 9 Hub > bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused > bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0000 > idProduct 0x0000 > bcdDevice 2.06 > iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd > iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller > iSerial 1 0000:00:10.1 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 25 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xe0 > Self Powered > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 0mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 9 Hub > bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused > bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes > bInterval 255 > Hub Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 41 > nNbrPorts 2 > wHubCharacteristic 0x000a > No power switching (usb 1.0) > Per-port overcurrent protection > bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds > bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere > DeviceRemovable 0xc0 > PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 > Hub Port Status: > Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power > Port 2: 0000.0300 lowspeed power > > Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 1.10 > bDeviceClass 9 Hub > bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused > bDeviceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0000 > idProduct 0x0000 > bcdDevice 2.06 > iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 uhci_hcd > iProduct 2 UHCI Host Controller > iSerial 1 0000:00:10.2 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 25 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xe0 > Self Powered > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 0mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 9 Hub > bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused > bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes > bInterval 255 > Hub Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 41 > nNbrPorts 2 > wHubCharacteristic 0x000a > No power switching (usb 1.0) > Per-port overcurrent protection > bPwrOn2PwrGood 1 * 2 milli seconds > bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere > DeviceRemovable 0xc0 > PortPwrCtrlMask 0x96 > Hub Port Status: > Port 1: 0000.0300 lowspeed power > Port 2: 0000.0300 lowspeed power > > Bus 005 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 2.00 > bDeviceClass 9 Hub > bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused > bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x0000 > idProduct 0x0000 > bcdDevice 2.06 > iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 ehci_hcd > iProduct 2 EHCI Host Controller > iSerial 1 0000:00:10.4 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 25 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0xe0 > Self Powered > Remote Wakeup > MaxPower 0mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 1 > bInterfaceClass 9 Hub > bInterfaceSubClass 0 Unused > bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed hub > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 3 > Transfer Type Interrupt > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0002 1x 2 bytes > bInterval 12 > Hub Descriptor: > bLength 11 > bDescriptorType 41 > nNbrPorts 8 > wHubCharacteristic 0x000a > No power switching (usb 1.0) > Per-port overcurrent protection > TT think time 8 FS bits > bPwrOn2PwrGood 10 * 2 milli seconds > bHubContrCurrent 0 milli Ampere > DeviceRemovable 0xc0 0x96 > PortPwrCtrlMask 0xfa 0xb7 > Hub Port Status: > Port 1: 0000.0100 power > Port 2: 0000.0503 highspeed power enable connect > Port 3: 0000.0100 power > Port 4: 0000.0100 power > Port 5: 0000.0100 power > Port 6: 0000.0100 power > Port 7: 0000.0100 power > Port 8: 0000.0000 > > Bus 005 Device 002: ID 05e3:0760 Genesys Logic, Inc. Card Reader > Device Descriptor: > bLength 18 > bDescriptorType 1 > bcdUSB 2.00 > bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) > bDeviceSubClass 0 > bDeviceProtocol 0 > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > idVendor 0x05e3 Genesys Logic, Inc. > idProduct 0x0760 Card Reader > bcdDevice 1.25 > iManufacturer 0 > iProduct 3 Flash Reader > iSerial 4 00115 > bNumConfigurations 1 > Configuration Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 2 > wTotalLength 32 > bNumInterfaces 1 > bConfigurationValue 1 > iConfiguration 0 > bmAttributes 0x80 > MaxPower 500mA > Interface Descriptor: > bLength 9 > bDescriptorType 4 > bInterfaceNumber 0 > bAlternateSetting 0 > bNumEndpoints 2 > bInterfaceClass 8 Mass Storage > bInterfaceSubClass 6 SCSI > bInterfaceProtocol 80 Bulk (Zip) > iInterface 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN > bmAttributes 2 > Transfer Type Bulk > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes > bInterval 0 > Endpoint Descriptor: > bLength 7 > bDescriptorType 5 > bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT > bmAttributes 2 > Transfer Type Bulk > Synch Type None > Usage Type Data > wMaxPacketSize 0x0200 1x 512 bytes > bInterval 0 > Device Qualifier (for other device speed): > bLength 10 > bDescriptorType 6 > bcdUSB 2.00 > bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) > bDeviceSubClass 0 > bDeviceProtocol 0 > bMaxPacketSize0 64 > bNumConfigurations 1 > > > >> martin wrote: >>> I have a Xitel Pro HiFi-link usb soundcard which works fine in Linux, >>> except that it appears to be sending the same signal to both left and >>> right channels. >> Please show the output of "lsusb -v" for your device. >> >> >> Regards, >> Clemens >> > > -- blog: getyourbadge.net From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Mon Dec 11 05:44:30 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Mon Dec 11 05:36:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> Esben Stien wrote: >Dave Phillips writes: > > > >>A phenomenal level of practiced mechanical or gymnastic ability >>doesn't represent genius to me. >> >> > >I'm not sure if I understand you correct, but first person action is >an art and requires intelligence and the ability to think very quick >and structured. > >Taking down and outsmarting a whole platoon is an art. > >The way you move and think has artistic value. > You're talking about talent and physical prowess. They are not synonymous with genius. Neither is intelligence any index of genius. Ascribing "art" as a qualifier to any endeavor simply reduces the accuracy and meaning of the term. Best, dp From mathias.friman at knorca.se Mon Dec 11 05:49:07 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Mon Dec 11 05:49:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. Message-ID: Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> > open for editing to all registered users >> >> How is the one we already have, not perfect? > It's nice, but it will need to evolve, since software also evolves. I don't know if it is just me, but isn't a wiki the worst case scenario for this site? It is a link collection, and most, if not all, of the software in the links already have websites of their own to some extent. A wiki, and this one seems to be no exception, lacks a clear navigational structure, or at least overview. The basic questions that need to be answered are: 1. Where am I? 2. Where can I go? 3. How can I get back? and in a wiki those questions are harder to answer than in a regular menudriven website. And first and foremost, most wikis are fairly ugly. ;) The aspect of community driven content however, is something that I stand behind, but some smaller projects that I have been involved in have not benefited from it. I'm of the opinion that some sort of form to fill in would suffice for the information necessary, and then a number of volunteers to format that information. And so there is no question about my bias: Yes, I have already sketched on such a website and made a first layout using the original content from linux-sound.org. But that is not the point I'm trying to make, I'm glad to have done this in vain if only the final result is better. :) Some good information may be found at http://www.useit.com/papers/webwriting/ if you are interested about writing for the web. Highest regard, Mathias From fons at kokkinizita.net Mon Dec 11 06:34:11 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon Dec 11 06:43:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 04:28:32AM +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > Fons Adriaensen writes: > > > To compare this to the skills of a gamer seems a joke to me. > > I disagree wholeheartedly;). As a die hard free software first person > action gamer, I find what I do to be an art; just as my jujutsu is an > art, which is not just about hitting someone in the head. Concerning the game playing, I'd agree that there may be more involved than the ability to push buttons. But assuming for a moment there is something in there that is a bonus to humanity, as art is, I wonder why it can apparently be expressed only in a context of violence and killing, and in a simplistic mindset consisting of 'good' and 'evil'. You don't find this lack of subtlety in oriental martial arts - they are about more than the technicalities of hurting someone efficiently. They also train your mind and personality, and teach restraint rather than indiscriminate violence. Here again we have two things that can't be compared. IMHO, all art, using the word in the usual sense, touches on ambiguity, the complexities of the human condition, and things that escape the framework of rational thinking. Not that it's supposed to express any of these in any way - certainly music isn't, even if it is often interpreted as such. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From fons at kokkinizita.net Mon Dec 11 07:03:42 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon Dec 11 07:04:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 05:44:30AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > Ascribing "art" as a qualifier to any endeavor simply reduces the > accuracy and meaning of the term. Very true. The only result of trying to dilute or shift the meaning of a word to make it fit your ideas, is that if you succeed, dictionaries will need to be revised. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From fbar at footils.org Mon Dec 11 07:53:18 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Mon Dec 11 07:54:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061210211451.GB14795@grisey> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210135747.GA10763@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1938.4080002@woh.rr.com> <20061210211451.GB14795@grisey> Message-ID: <20061211125318.GH10763@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Orm Finnendahl hat gesagt: // Orm Finnendahl wrote: > > >Uhm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKyv0T4b4A ;) > > Frank, you can't be serious! I had a smiley behind the URL. I'm not saying that playing a video game *is* making music. This is obvius in the video: The sounds coming from the machine are coming from a recording and don't have anything to do with how the kid is hitting the buttons. > And apart from common belief, the sportive aspect is not really the > hard part of playing an instrument: Yesterday a friend of mine came > over to check out my new Grand Piano. Unlike me he is an (admittedly > exceptional) professional pianist and it was quite frustrating to hear > him play a piece lying on the note stand, which I had been studying > before he came. After 20+ years of training I'm more or less able to > play such a piece, but to hear the subtelties of his dynamic and > harmonic control was mind blowing, especially as he was sight reading > a virtuoso piece from the 19th century, (which took me quite a while > to learn). Telling him my frustration he told me that he can relate to > that quite well as he experienced the same when he had lessons with > his his former teacher (who had studied at the Paris Conservatoire at > age 12)... To add to my blasphemy: Maybe I would feel similar if I was trying to play that japanese game machine and then that kid would come along and obviously play it much better than I can. One should not underestimate how much added value really great gamers often put into their playing style. Some people add decorations to their virtual movements not because it would be required to win the game, but just because it's cool. This still doesn't make it it Cool Jazz, but it shows, that even in gaming there can be more than just the sportive aspect of winning. But my main point is, that game-inspired interfaces may be able to show new ways for computer music instruments besides the usual approach which is hooking a midi keyboard with some knobs to ZynAddSubFx which in the end then is nothing more than an organ small enough to be carried in a bag. Getting visual feedback from the computer, making the machine respond "intelligently" to human input, creating new metaphors and symbols beyond note and velocity - all this is happening in games already. True, the intention is different, but the techniques are similar, and in my view your Pd interface for improvisation isn't too far away from that. Fijuu or Chris' Eargates make this connection really obvious for example by using a game engine (Ogre in Fijuu) or a game controller (Eargates) with game-like feedback visuals. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From d_baron at 012.net.il Sun Dec 10 13:21:34 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:25:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) Message-ID: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> Just installed it. A very creative but frustrating package. As with too many of these things, one must be able to read and that in English (or a few European languages?). Fine print abounds in what at first looks like a very sparse UI. The program abounds with objects and widgets. Some very creative and versatile, others frustratingly crude. Graphic objects like squares cannot be resized (nothing stops one from reprogramming them and then dutifully uploading the scalable versions for others to enjoy--smalltalk was once the rage.) Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is incompatable with mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my daughter, not in UI and cannot type it in to text objects either. Truetype fonts (newer than smalltalk80) are beatutiful but they are also Unicode based nowadays. I think most kids would enjoy trying various widgets but run out of patience doing anything more with them. Most adults would as well. A model (allbeit not an audio app) for a program sutiable for children but versatile enough to be of interest to their parents as well: Tuxpaint. This one is superb and is also in use in many schools. (Also needs more languages in the UI!) From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Mon Dec 11 08:33:15 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:33:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 15:00 +0100, nescivi wrote: > Hello Fons, > > Thursday, December 7, 2006, 11:27:43 PM, you wrote: > FA> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 09:34:09PM +0100, nescivi wrote: > >> It has not yet been decided where LAC2008 will be, and we are open to > >> proposals for this. > > FA> Who is 'we' ? In other words, how is this decided ? > > ok, last year the TU Berlin proposed to host LAC2007 to the ZKM and > after some discussion with them, it was decided to make it so. > We had some discussion during LAC2006 with the people involved > organising the last LAC's about what the future would look like for > the LAC, but we have not come to a definite conclusion yet. > I suppose we will need to continue this discussion on LAC2007 to come > together to a good solution. for what its worth, the recent OSDL DAM-3 meeting has nominally decided to try to target LAC-2007 as a face-to-face opportunity to resolve the wretched state of audio APIs on linux. From kouhia at nic.funet.fi Mon Dec 11 08:36:03 2006 From: kouhia at nic.funet.fi (Juhana Sadeharju) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:36:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: >From: "Tim Howard" > > It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the >linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to >start using Linux for serious audio work. The fundamental problem is that users can buy only computers with Windows preinstalled. For years I have searched for a local advertisement about computer which comes with empty disk, or with Linux preinstalled, or with both Linux and Windows. No luck so far. People does not buy Windows -- it just comes with the computer. Microsoft also dumps down the price of the preinstalled Windows. And birds have told the computer makers get discount on Windows only if it is the only system in the computer. So, you could shorten your text from "start using Linux for serious audio work" to "start using Linux". > The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are >developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but >they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For >example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just >stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Strange things happen when one approaches Windows users. Free mostly means ".exe". While Windows users are open-mindedly downloading and running pirated software, they are most closed-minded if they succeed to write anything by theirself. Recent finding are the user-made modifications for the games. They distribute them in very closed-minded and protective manner. For example, there are 30000 mods for Neverwinter Nights at NWVault, but people must download them one by one, manually. Downloading one module requires several mouse button presses per file. That is insane even if one only wants the best mods. Players may have patience but the modders who want a large asset library are doomed because model/item/texture mods comes in large amounts. I decided to not buy NWN nor NWN2 because I would in any case download all mods. Unfortunately I did buy Oblivion; see "tessource.net/files" :-( Imagine if Linux distributions would be downloaded in a similar manner. Any manual downloading is just waste of time. The fun starts after everything has been downloaded and installed. Perhaps GIMP would be downloaded by 90% of users, but most software would be downloaded by 0.3% of users. And people would crack when they realize that they need to download programs ran only by the Linux system itself. Next I will check if all 200,000 CC licensed photos at WikiCommons can be downloaded non-manually. Well, I think already that CC license is a work of Windows people because CC has the no-commercial and the no-derivatives versions. Is CC an attempt to windowize the people? A synonym to ".exe"? The freedom scale is this: PD, BSD, GNU, CC, EXE, $$$ Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software From dave at pawfal.org Mon Dec 11 08:43:58 2006 From: dave at pawfal.org (Dave Griffiths) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:44:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] betablocker Message-ID: <32017.217.18.21.2.1165844638.squirrel@webmail.pawfal.org> Hi all, To add to the collision of music and game cultures going on in the other thread: http://www.pawfal.org/index.php?page=BetaBlocker It's not quite a game (you control it entirely with a gamepad), it's not quite a programming language (it's based on bits of assembler, forth and redcode) and it makes not quite music :) There is a movies of it in action at piksel 2006 on that page. cheers, dave From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Mon Dec 11 09:03:49 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:55:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> Paul Davis wrote: >for what its worth, the recent OSDL DAM-3 meeting has nominally decided >to try to target LAC-2007 as a face-to-face opportunity to resolve the >wretched state of audio APIs on linux. > This is good news. Whose faces might we see then ? Will you be there ? Best, dp From mista.tapas at gmx.net Mon Dec 11 09:00:42 2006 From: mista.tapas at gmx.net (Florian Schmidt) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:59:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <457CB96F.6080502@gareus.org> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457CB96F.6080502@gareus.org> Message-ID: <200612111500.42197.mista.tapas@gmx.net> On Monday 11 December 2006 02:51, Robin Gareus wrote: > Esben Stien wrote: > > Robin Gareus writes: > >> open for editing to all registered users > > > > How is the one we already have, not perfect? > > > > Why register on a wiki, as it'll only give us less contributors? > > good point. because this is a devel. version and I don't want to > completely open it for spammers right away. registration will be > replaced by CAPTCHA in future versions. Hi, please keep in mind that CAPTCHA usually singles out i.e. blind users. You _must_ have an alternative CAPTHA mechanism besides pictures (I.e. simple mathematical questions in the vein of "If you have three oranges and four apple, you take away 2 oranges and 1 apple. How much apples have you got left?". Or something similar. Ok, maybe easier to process automatically than pictures, but with some creative wording and a spelling mistake here and there this could still work. Or maybe there's better CAPTCHA mechanisms that are useful for disabled people, too.. Flo -- Palimm Palimm! http://tapas.affenbande.org From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Mon Dec 11 09:07:38 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Mon Dec 11 08:59:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Hydrogen development ? Message-ID: <457D662A.3050606@woh.rr.com> Greetings: I've not checked out recent SVN sources, but watching the devel mail list I get the distinct impression that there's no internal development going on with Hydrogen. Almost all traffic on the list is concerned with translations. So, what's the story ? Is there a Hydrogen 1.0 in the works or is it a deader ? It would be a deep shame to see Hydrogen's development languish. Best, dp From d_baron at 012.net.il Mon Dec 11 09:26:51 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Mon Dec 11 09:30:10 2006 Subject: : Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children In-Reply-To: <20061210230230.8A1E24B9BD44@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061210230230.8A1E24B9BD44@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612111626.51453.d_baron@012.net.il> > > Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux world ? ?I mean, > > these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, period. > > They did not bother trying other major distros to provide adjustments > > and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE. > > I'm sure the documentation is available for the distributions the author > of the docs is using. There's really nothing more sinister than that > going on, I'm sure. > > And nowadays, most people don't really need installation documentation. > You can just say "open your distributions package manager and select > install [insert name of application]" Jokosher is available on Debian Sid. From ivalladolidt at terra.es Mon Dec 11 09:41:55 2006 From: ivalladolidt at terra.es (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Mon Dec 11 09:42:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] EQ settings for enhanced presence Message-ID: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> I'd like to use a song as the ringtone for my mobile. The song is "Moonriver" by Henry Mancini as sang by Audrey Hepburn herself in one of the sequences of that lovely "Breakfast at Tiffany's". But it's not certainly a noisy song so to make sure I can hear somebody calling in more or less noisy environments, I am trying to use Audacity in order to equalize the sound so it has enhanced presence. Usually preset sounds in mobile phones are heavily equalized so they stand out in a noisy environment when the phone rings. I've enhanced a bit the 200-400 Hz band supposing there's the "body" of the vocal sound. Then I've enhanced 3 KHz to give a bit more clarity and 8 KHz so voice sounds a bit "hotter". Result is more or less ok, but I wonder... What EQ settings would you use to enhance presence of music/voices in order to use a sound as a ringtone? Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ m. +34679156321 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt j. ivalladt@jabberes.org From smoak at mis.net Mon Dec 11 10:47:39 2006 From: smoak at mis.net (M P Smoak) Date: Mon Dec 11 10:51:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference =?iso-8859-1?q?Continent selection?= In-Reply-To: <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <200612111047.39454.smoak@mis.net> On Monday 11 December 2006 09:03 am, Dave Phillips wrote: > Paul Davis wrote: > >for what its worth, the recent OSDL DAM-3 meeting has nominally > > decided to try to target LAC-2007 as a face-to-face opportunity to > > resolve the wretched state of audio APIs on linux. > > This is good news. Whose faces might we see then ? > > Will you be there ? > > Best, > > dp Based on recent news and comments I've read re osdl, I wonder if there will be any osdl faces seen. http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6640205688.html Has osdl ever contributed anything toward linux audio/sound? (bhaa, humbug, grump, ....) oops, sorry; bad morning. marv From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Mon Dec 11 10:45:37 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Mon Dec 11 10:58:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference Continent selection In-Reply-To: <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <20061207193449.GA1804@replic.net> <249772442.20061207213409@gmail.com> <20061207222743.GA6643@linux-1.site> <79881059.20061208150053@gmail.com> <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <1165851937.24549.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 09:03 -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > Paul Davis wrote: > > >for what its worth, the recent OSDL DAM-3 meeting has nominally decided > >to try to target LAC-2007 as a face-to-face opportunity to resolve the > >wretched state of audio APIs on linux. > > > This is good news. Whose faces might we see then ? formulating a list of software development groups/people/companies soon (very soon). > Will you be there ? i'll be there whether or not this attempt works out or not. there is another meeting (FOMS) in .au in january that would also have been good but i cannot justify travelling to .au for a couple of days to talk about this stuff. alas, this may end up being the attitude of too many people to any given gathering. mea culpa. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Mon Dec 11 10:57:06 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Mon Dec 11 11:05:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <200612111500.42197.mista.tapas@gmx.net> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457CB96F.6080502@gareus.org> <200612111500.42197.mista.tapas@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1165852626.24549.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 15:00 +0100, Florian Schmidt wrote: > On Monday 11 December 2006 02:51, Robin Gareus wrote: > > Esben Stien wrote: > > > Robin Gareus writes: > > >> open for editing to all registered users > > > > > > How is the one we already have, not perfect? > > > > > > Why register on a wiki, as it'll only give us less contributors? > > > > good point. because this is a devel. version and I don't want to > > completely open it for spammers right away. registration will be > > replaced by CAPTCHA in future versions. > > Hi, > > please keep in mind that CAPTCHA usually singles out i.e. blind users. You > _must_ have an alternative CAPTHA mechanism besides pictures (I.e. simple > mathematical questions in the vein of "If you have three oranges and four > apple, you take away 2 oranges and 1 apple. How much apples have you got > left?". Or something similar. Ok, maybe easier to process automatically than > pictures, but with some creative wording and a spelling mistake here and > there this could still work. > > Or maybe there's better CAPTCHA mechanisms that are useful for disabled > people, too.. best suggestion i've read is odd-one-out: Which of the odd one out in the following list: red, blue, green, purple, jupiter zillions of alternatives: car, train, bus, plane, apple a, b, c, d, e, 9 tall, short, fat, skinny, kangaroo noun, adjective, verb, rose and so on. these can still be solved by the $0.02/hr CAPTCHA farmers, but they do work for blind users and they are not ugly to look at. they also require a small amount of intelligence, which is no bad thing :) --p From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Mon Dec 11 11:05:18 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Mon Dec 11 11:11:42 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Linux Audio Conference =?iso-8859-1?q?Continent selection?= In-Reply-To: <200612111047.39454.smoak@mis.net> References: <1353106228.20061206160810@gmail.com> <1165843995.2852.698.camel@localhost.localdomain> <457D6545.3010302@woh.rr.com> <200612111047.39454.smoak@mis.net> Message-ID: <1165853118.24549.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 11:47 -0400, M P Smoak wrote: > On Monday 11 December 2006 09:03 am, Dave Phillips wrote: > > Paul Davis wrote: > > >for what its worth, the recent OSDL DAM-3 meeting has nominally > > > decided to try to target LAC-2007 as a face-to-face opportunity to > > > resolve the wretched state of audio APIs on linux. > > > > This is good news. Whose faces might we see then ? > > > > Will you be there ? > > > > Best, > > > > dp > > Based on recent news and comments I've read re osdl, I wonder > if there will be any osdl faces seen. > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6640205688.html > > Has osdl ever contributed anything toward linux audio/sound? OSDL is not attempting to contribute anything. their desktop linux project is trying to shepherd, guide, and focus efforts on the desktop, nothing more than that. and yes, i will be suprised if OSDL lasts another year, but given that nobody else is attempting to do what they are doing, we should be glad that *someone* is trying. --p From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 11:28:12 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 11 11:28:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] EQ settings for enhanced presence In-Reply-To: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> References: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> Message-ID: On 12/11/06, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > I'd like to use a song as the ringtone for my mobile. The song is > "Moonriver" by Henry Mancini as sang by Audrey Hepburn herself in one > of the sequences of that lovely "Breakfast at Tiffany's". > > But it's not certainly a noisy song so to make sure I can hear > somebody calling in more or less noisy environments, I am trying to > use Audacity in order to equalize the sound so it has enhanced > presence. > > Usually preset sounds in mobile phones are heavily equalized so they > stand out in a noisy environment when the phone rings. > > I've enhanced a bit the 200-400 Hz band supposing there's the "body" > of the vocal sound. Then I've enhanced 3 KHz to give a bit more > clarity and 8 KHz so voice sounds a bit "hotter". Result is more or > less ok, but I wonder... > > What EQ settings would you use to enhance presence of music/voices in > order to use a sound as a ringtone? > Boosting 3-5KHz is typical for vocal presence... Not sure how that translates onto a phone, though. -TimH From mdeboer at iua.upf.edu Mon Dec 11 11:26:26 2006 From: mdeboer at iua.upf.edu (Maarten de Boer) Date: Mon Dec 11 11:28:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <1165852626.24549.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457CB96F.6080502@gareus.org> <200612111500.42197.mista.tapas@gmx.net> <1165852626.24549.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20061211172626.6b5670e3.mdeboer@iua.upf.es> > odd-one-out: > red, blue, green, purple, jupiter > [...] > they also require a small amount of intelligence, which is no bad thing :) and making this a bit more field-specific would also rule out the captcha farmers. gauss, hamming, hann, triangular, glass cos, sin, cat, log, pow audacity, sweep, rezound, abiword, snd -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From parumi at iua.upf.edu Mon Dec 11 12:02:11 2006 From: parumi at iua.upf.edu (Pau Arumi) Date: Mon Dec 11 11:55:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 released Message-ID: <457D8F13.6010005@iua.upf.edu> After several months without a stable release but lots of development activity, we are pleased to announce CLAM 0.95 CLAM (http://clam.iua.upf.edu) is a C++ framework for doing research and app development in audio and music. It comes with a set of applications ready-to-use. Most important in this release is NetworkEditor 0.4, with a radically reworked UI based on Qt4.2, lots of work on stability and usability, and new visual-prototyping features. You can visually prototype standalone apps (or audio plugins): Edit audio networks with NetworkEditor, then edit its UI using Qt Designer and CLAM widgets plugins. Finally, Prototyper let you run the audio network with its UI. This is better shown in this quick tutorial: http://iua-share.upf.es/wikis/clam/index.php/Network_Editor_tutorial This release comes with many new processings, mostly spectral transformations. But we want to highlight the tonal-analysis which does chords identification at real-time, and its related visualizations. This code is based on the work done by researchers at Queen Mary University (London) and Universitat Pompeu Fabra (Barcelona). More credits are in the About box. These and many other improvements can be found in the ChangeLog: http://clam.iua.upf.edu/ChangeLog.txt This release brings new packages for Linux (Debian sid, Ubuntu edgy) and Windows installers. In Linux, you can simply add new sources to /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/linux-debian-sid ./ deb http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/linux-ubuntu-edgly ./ Both Linux and Windows comes with desktop integration and several examples ready to use. Mac OSX packages will be catching up next weeks. Bug reports and any feedback is very welcomed (and needed). The CLAM team -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From michael at michaelshiloh.com Mon Dec 11 12:28:49 2006 From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael@michaelshiloh.com) Date: Mon Dec 11 12:31:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612110202x3dcf51a8hd82e8c9603485ebf@mail.gmail.com> References: <457C8FAD.1060506@gareus.org> <87d56rw5s9.fsf@esben-stien.name> <3c808a150612110202x3dcf51a8hd82e8c9603485ebf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > ... Do you > know how much spam I filter out every day to keep your mailboxes Nice > and Clean (tm) ? Which I, for one, thank you profusely. I have been on some lists without moderators. Usually, after a short while, I leave... Yes, sadly registering in one way or another is required for keeping out spam, although I've seen pretty light-weigh solutions, like typing in a confirmation code that is presented as an intentionally poor image to keep out the 'bots. Still requires some registration so the system knows which email address this allows. I see no way around this. Michael From cesare at poeticstudios.com Mon Dec 11 13:51:18 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 11 13:17:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 05:44:30AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > > >> Ascribing "art" as a qualifier to any endeavor simply reduces the >> accuracy and meaning of the term. >> > > Very true. The only result of trying to dilute or shift the > meaning of a word to make it fit your ideas, is that if you > succeed, dictionaries will need to be revised. > > Very false. ;-) Actually, the term 'art' has always been used also, and even more, in the sense of 'skill' or 'craft' for a long time. The art of making bread, for instance, deserves the same respect of the art of making music. c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 11 13:12:12 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Mon Dec 11 13:38:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack things please In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612100157w1c5e6bd9pdc787bd612ee730a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5969dc560612042130x311b34bagb0dbe16656459e94@mail.gmail.com> <47160.195.212.29.75.1165314538.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <5969dc560612051616i740bb543nec2b244b8c32fa38@mail.gmail.com> <4579BD61.3020102@sbcglobal.net> <5969dc560612091403w5e415e3ajb2974b67be23147a@mail.gmail.com> <3c808a150612100157w1c5e6bd9pdc787bd612ee730a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <457D9F7C.3040005@sbcglobal.net> Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > On 12/9/06, we are wrote: >> >> > #!/bin/bash >> > >> > if [ -e /proc/asound/$HDSP ]; then >> > qjackctl --preset=$HDSP >> > else >> > quackctl --preset=$ICH >> > >> > fi >> >> Yep, >> thats exactly what i need. problem solved! >> >> thanks. >> >> tom. >> > > To make it clear for users who have other types of cards, a generic syntax > could be : > > #!/bin/bash > > if [ -e /proc/asound/$MY_REMOVABLE_CARD ]; then > qjackctl --preset=$MY_REMOVABLE_CARD > else > quackctl --preset=$MY_DEFAULT_INTERNAL_CARD > fi > > This is just what I needed to run jackd as a start up daemon... > __________________ > Marc-Olivier Barre, > Markinoko. > Cool, I'm glad that worked out for you. Just as a note, checking for a file in proc will probably only work if your system loads the modules for you automatically when you plug in your removable card. If you have compiled the alsa module for your external card into your kernel, or if the module must be loaded by hand, a different approach may be necessary. (something like greping the output of lspci to check if your card is there.) /brian From cesare at poeticstudios.com Mon Dec 11 14:11:19 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 11 13:39:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> Message-ID: <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> David Baron wrote: > Just installed it. A very creative but frustrating package. As with too many > of these things, one must be able to read and that in English (or a few > European languages?). Fine print abounds in what at first looks like a very > sparse UI. > > The program abounds with objects and widgets. Some very creative and > versatile, others frustratingly crude. Graphic objects like squares cannot be > resized (nothing stops one from reprogramming them and then dutifully > uploading the scalable versions for others to enjoy--smalltalk was once the > rage.) > > Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is incompatable with > mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my daughter, not in UI and cannot > type it in to text objects either. Truetype fonts (newer than smalltalk80) > are beatutiful but they are also Unicode based nowadays. > > I think most kids would enjoy trying various widgets but run out of patience > doing anything more with them. Most adults would as well. > > A model (allbeit not an audio app) for a program sutiable for children but > versatile enough to be of interest to their parents as well: Tuxpaint. This > one is superb and is also in use in many schools. (Also needs more languages > in the UI!) > > > Apart from Alan Kay himself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewpoints_Research_Institute), take a look at the Viewpoint Research Board of Advisors: http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html John Perry Barlow, Vint Cerf, Richard Dawkins, Doug Engelbart, Marvin Minsky, Nicholas Negroponte, Seymour Papert and so on. Doesn't any of these names ring a bell? Anyway, at VR, they're using and continuing the development of squeak. Did you know that you're making ridicule of a big chunk of the history of informatics? Ciao, c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From cesare at poeticstudios.com Mon Dec 11 15:02:53 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 11 14:16:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457DB96D.8030004@poeticstudios.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > David Baron wrote: >> Just installed it. A very creative but frustrating package. As with >> too many of these things, one must be able to read and that in >> English (or a few European languages?). Fine print abounds in what at >> first looks like a very sparse UI. >> >> The program abounds with objects and widgets. Some very creative and >> versatile, others frustratingly crude. Graphic objects like squares >> cannot be resized (nothing stops one from reprogramming them and then >> dutifully uploading the scalable versions for others to >> enjoy--smalltalk was once the rage.) >> >> Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is >> incompatable with mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my >> daughter, not in UI and cannot type it in to text objects either. >> Truetype fonts (newer than smalltalk80) are beatutiful but they are >> also Unicode based nowadays. >> >> I think most kids would enjoy trying various widgets but run out of >> patience doing anything more with them. Most adults would as well. >> >> A model (allbeit not an audio app) for a program sutiable for >> children but versatile enough to be of interest to their parents as >> well: Tuxpaint. This one is superb and is also in use in many >> schools. (Also needs more languages in the UI!) >> >> >> > Apart from Alan Kay himself > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewpoints_Research_Institute), take a > look at the Viewpoint Research Board of Advisors: > > http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html > > John Perry Barlow, Vint Cerf, Richard Dawkins, Doug Engelbart, Marvin > Minsky, Nicholas Negroponte, Seymour Papert and so on. > > Doesn't any of these names ring a bell? Anyway, at VR, they're using > and continuing the development of squeak. > > Did you know that you're making ridicule of a big chunk of the history > of informatics? > > Ciao, > > c. > Sorry. I've been harsh in my reply, with no true reasons to do so. I should have just said that maybe you've to give it another try. Or investigate a bit more on the project. Sorry again. c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 14:42:30 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 14:44:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <200612111442.30190.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 13:51, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Actually, the term 'art' has always been used also, and even > more, in the sense of 'skill' or 'craft' for a long time. The > art of making bread, for instance, deserves the same respect > of the art of making music. First of all, making bread is part of the culinary arts, which are widely accepted as such (if you doubt it, just attend a wine tasting and listen to people's critiques. Performing arts critics can only dream of being so vague and effete.) I would argue that art and craft are two complementary concepts which both can be used to describe the same activity, but not all activities. A person's skill at a craft can be measured objectively. "Every loaf of bread he bakes comes out to exactly 500g." "He performs that Rachmaninov piece exactly the same way every time." And on the videogame front, "She took out the entire opposing team in 8 seconds with only 2 grenades." A person's skill at an art can ONLY be measured subjectively. "His bread is always chewy, but tender and flavorful." "He makes me cry with his reading of Rachmaninov every time." And on the videogame front.... what? "She can play blindfolded?" "She can do a little dance while she frags people?" On games like DDR you can add a little flair to your performance because it's meant to be a performance. On games that people play competitively, like first person shooters.... I'm not so sure what the artistic component would be. Regardless, DDR's existence demonstrates that there can be an artistic component to videogame playing. But it's a different art than music performance (or composition, or arrangement, or engineering) just as all those musical activities are a different art than bread baking. Well, maybe music engineering is pretty close to bread baking. Rob From brad at sonaural.com Mon Dec 11 14:47:24 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Mon Dec 11 14:47:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> Message-ID: <457DB5CC.2090108@sonaural.com> David Baron wrote: > Just installed it. A very creative but frustrating package. As with too many > of these things, one must be able to read and that in English (or a few > European languages?). Fine print abounds in what at first looks like a very > sparse UI. > > The program abounds with objects and widgets. Some very creative and > versatile, others frustratingly crude. Graphic objects like squares cannot be > resized I don't know what you mean by this. If you are referring to morphic objects (most of what you see are morphic objects) then you can do a lot with them. Hover over the object and press the right mouse button (or ctrl-right) (you might need to press your middle button, depends on if you have your buttons swapped or not - see preferences) and you will see, what are called, halos. Various halos do different things. Just hover over them and a popup will appear to inform what each does. You can resize, move, change the color, etc... even inspect the object (the wrench tool.) You have full control of the morphic object right on the desktop. > (nothing stops one from reprogramming them and then dutifully > uploading the scalable versions for others to enjoy--smalltalk was once the > rage.) > Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is incompatable with > mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my daughter, not in UI and cannot > type it in to text objects either. Truetype fonts (newer than smalltalk80) > are beatutiful but they are also Unicode based nowadays. I'm not a language expert, to say the least. I don't know about Hebrew usage in Squeak. But, Unicode and multilingual support is supported (I think from version 3.7 on, don't know.) If it isn't translated to Hebrew yet, why not help us by doing so! I believe squeak in German, French, Spanish and Japanese are available. Today's True type fonts are also supported. Some links: Unicode in Squeak: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/857 A design and implementation paper on Multilingualized squeak: http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/m17npaper/index.html Multilingualized squeak: http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/squeak-multilingual-e.html HowTo Squeak in Russian: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5773 > > I think most kids would enjoy trying various widgets but run out of patience > doing anything more with them. Most adults would as well. Squeak is used successfully in classrooms around the world. You might check out the squeakland.org site for more info. Especially the tutorials. Click on "Site Map". Also check out the book "Powerful Ideas in the Classroom" on a progressively hands-on approach for teachers. It's very good. You might also download the OLPC etoys version of etoys to see a how it is configured for the OLPC project. here are some etoys projects. You'll need to install the squeakland plugin (which is essentially squeak run in a browser): http://www.squeakland.org/kids/sqfest_2004.htm Some excerpts from a previous email from Alan Kay about etoys may be helpful as well (the original poster was asking about the use of etoys and high schoolers): > > Etoys was designed for 9-11 year olds, and it has > worked very well with them. However, even 8th > graders are able to use more features, and high > schoolers should be using a pretty complete > programming environment (like Squeak). > ---- > > Squeak itself is very easy -- as Tony Hoare once > said about Algol, Smalltalk was a great > improvement, especially with its successors! -- > the problem for beginners is that the library has > only one organization, which kind of lumps > everything together, and this is a large lump. > This is powerful but can be quite frustrating > (other comprehensive systems have similar > problems). Etoys is kind of a demo that quite a > bit can be done with much much less in the > end-user's world, but the aim at 10 year olds > limits its range. Our original plan was to wind > up with a more Hypercard-like system, still small > and simple, but much more comprehensive. > You can find out more at: wiki.squeak.org www.squeakland.org www.squeak.org -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From brad at sonaural.com Mon Dec 11 14:58:21 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Mon Dec 11 14:58:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <457DB5CC.2090108@sonaural.com> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> <457DB5CC.2090108@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <457DB85D.4030104@sonaural.com> Here's another msg from Alan Kay that may be of interest to others as well. A good explanation of late binding - powerful especially for working out ideas: > Here's how I think of "extreme late-binding". > > Suppose you are working on something and at some point you realize > that you'd like to change it or some part of it. If you can do that > pretty easily, then that change would be called "late-binding". If you > can't do it easily, then whatever it was would be called > "early-bound". Some materials are erasable and some not. Some forms > of images are more erasable and changeable on a computer than on > standard physical media, etc.: they are more "late-bound". > > For example, many operating systems and applications will require you > to reboot your machine after certain kinds of updates. (I just got a > new MacBook and was surprised that after it updated its apps from the > net that it required a reboot -- this would be more expected on > Windows than on a Mac.) These updates were "early-bound" and something > major had to be done to rebind things. > > Lots of programming and apps 40 years ago were early bound (one had to > go back to source text, recompile, reload, rerun, etc.). Interactive > systems started to try to late-bind as much as possible, so that a > change by a user would be immediately reflected. Compare the > late-bound changing of a picture in a graphics app or some text in a > word processor or a Hypercard script to the much more tedious > task of using a blog or wiki which requires the text to be typed one > way, and only later do you see how it turned out. That this situation > obtains today in the web is terrible (most especially since there is > no good reason for this, just really bad design by the people who did > the web browsers). > > Lisp was one of the first programming languages to experiment with > late-binding much more than had previously been done. And we took this > up as one of our goals at Xerox PARC in the 70s: to see how much you > could allow to be changed on the fly without killing the entire > system. The Smalltalks went rather far in this direction (and could go > further). (Squeak is a Smalltalk.) > > For kids, we wanted them to have instant feedback on everything they > did, so we took the Hypercard model and tried to remove its various > modes, enrich the graphical landscape, and simplify the programming. > We aimed at 8-12 year olds, and Etoys works pretty well for them. > > Etoys was a demo that was supposed to be reimplemented as a wider > ranging system for children from about age 5 into high school. But > this didn't happen, and the result is that Etoys remains mostly useful > for the original age group. For example, it would be pretty > frustrating for you to try your project in Etoys. > > Squeak on the other hand is a full blown programming environment (like > Java) and your project could definitely be done in it). But it is much > less suited to the kind of user you say you are. (I think you sell > yourself short a bit because anyone with a good command of writing > skills -- and you certainly have these -- can learn to program in the > general non-iconic forms used today.) > > The biggest problem in programming is not so much the strange seeming > nature of the raw materials, but that as things scale up, architecture > dominates the materials. I.e. /design/ starts to become more and more > of a factor. And design is not learned in a day, even with the best > materials and environment. The very best programmers and computer > scientists I know -- who have absolutely no problems with raw > materials -- still have great difficulties with design for most > systems that are worth doing. This is one of the reasons we like to > make things late-bound: we don't know what we are doing half the time, > and are constantly finding out things that we needed to know earlier. > > One analogy (that might be unsatisfying) is that many people have > complained about the ad hoc nature of standard musical notation and of > the layout of the piano keyboard (which leads to lots of scale > patterns, etc.). And, it's true they are a pain when starting, and do > turn lots of beginners away. Many suggestions have been made to > improve both of these. > > Once one gets into the stuff, one realizes right away that real > fluency doesn't depend much on the actual notation or keyboard layout. > This is because fluency in the human brain is done by flattening > structures into thousands of special cases. There are real > similarities here to reading and spelling. It helps to have phonetic > spellings in the beginning, but they are completely bypassed by fluent > readers. > > In the case of designing computer stuff, there really isn't enough of > a body of great design yet to provide thousands of applicable > patterns, and so even seasoned professionals tend to flounder. And, > again, better late-binding of everything (extreme late-binding) really > helps us flounder our way towards some of our goals. > > Cheers, > > Alan From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 15:03:59 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 15:04:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <200612111503.59728.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 14:11, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > John Perry Barlow, Vint Cerf, Richard Dawkins, Doug Engelbart, > Marvin Minsky, Nicholas Negroponte, Seymour Papert and so on. > Did you know that you're making ridicule of a big chunk of the > history of informatics? It does kinda make sense that they'd be using a 25-year-old language in their project when so many of those people reached their creative peak 25 or more years ago. Unfortunately, the presence of famous people doesn't automatically make a project intuitive, modern, or good for teaching kids. Squeak needs some updates, and maybe it needs new blood to make them happen, even if there are no PhD's contributing code anymore. Sure, a bunch of us could go in there and incorporate most of the functionality of something like Pd, but then it might not be Squeak anymore. I personally think it needs some changes to the underlying language to make it accessible to first-time coders (scriptHello/self.setCharacters("Hello World")? How is that better than TO Hello/PRINT [Hello World]/END or good ol' Sub Main/Print "Hello World"/End? Or Sub Form_Open/Me.Text = "Hello World"/End if you need to be all OOPsy.) But people with CS PhD's love Smalltalk and sneer at Logo and Basic, so I imagine sooner or later, kids will be stuck with Smalltalk. At least third world kids, if the OLPC thing ever takes off. Rob From contact at leonard-ritter.com Mon Dec 11 15:59:23 2006 From: contact at leonard-ritter.com (Leonard Ritter) Date: Mon Dec 11 16:01:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <1165870763.7988.4.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 10:31 +0100, Mathias Friman wrote: > The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here. I'd be happy to > compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some > material to start from. And you guys are the experts. fair enough. there are multiple levels of complexity in usage, and linux audio users should not have to deal with the lower ones. we're still at an early stage. -- Leonard Ritter -- Freelance Art & Logic -- http://www.leonard-ritter.com From b0ef at esben-stien.name Mon Dec 11 18:47:02 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Mon Dec 11 16:59:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457CC7FA.1030800@sonaural.com> (Brad Fuller's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:52:42 -0800") References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457CC7FA.1030800@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <877iwyq9l5.fsf@esben-stien.name> Brad Fuller writes: > what art are you expressing when playing a game? The individual feeling of alertness concentration put into every move is communicated when watching; the dedication transmits and reveals itself, as well as intelligence. Each sequence of moves planned and executed are like a performance. The creativity to build patterns, producing systems of techniques, that outsmarts the opponent. The gamer creates illusions to fool and manipulate the opponent into thinking what he wants them to think; to lay his trap. Good gamers recognize this and identify with fooling the human mind, as well as the finesse and elegance he may apply to his style. When you feed the inputs of the mind, you're able to predict the outcome, if you are smarter than your opponent. "About 95% of the concepts, ideas and moves are only done in the mind; the other 5% is the physical manifestation of the 95% unseen and unmoved. Nothing is hidden but only those who look will ever see the underlying beauty of this art form. There are none so blind as those who will not see" - Kel -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From fons at kokkinizita.net Mon Dec 11 17:12:34 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:09:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <20061211221234.GC5897@linux-1.site> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 06:51:18PM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > >On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 05:44:30AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > > > > > >>Ascribing "art" as a qualifier to any endeavor simply reduces the > >>accuracy and meaning of the term. > >> > > > >Very true. The only result of trying to dilute or shift the > >meaning of a word to make it fit your ideas, is that if you > >succeed, dictionaries will need to be revised. > > > > > Very false. ;-) > > Actually, the term 'art' has always been used also, and even more, in > the sense of 'skill' or 'craft' for a long time. The art of making > bread, for instance, deserves the same respect of the art of making music. I do understand what you mean to say by this, but still this proposition remains true. Changing the meaning or use of a word doesn't modify reality, but only the meaning or use of the word. And yes, the expression 'the art of ...' is used, and rightly so, and what it refers to deserves respect. But 'art' in this expression doesn't have the same meaning as when that word is used on its own. You won't find 'the art of breadmaking' in any book on art history, and there are good reasons for that. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 17:15:23 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:16:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061211221234.GC5897@linux-1.site> References: <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> <20061211221234.GC5897@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <200612111715.24091.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 17:12, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > used on its own. You won't find 'the art of breadmaking' in > any book on art history, and there are good reasons for that. I dunno about books, but I've had some bread at restaurants that definitely dated back to the Renaissance, if not the Mesozoic. Rob From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 11 17:17:40 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:18:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: interesting angle on the NOVL-MSFT deal Message-ID: <006401c71d72$2c2a85d0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/12/leopard_server.ht ml Ico From atte.jensen at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 17:19:30 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:21:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] EQ settings for enhanced presence In-Reply-To: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> References: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> Message-ID: <457DD972.3090609@gmail.com> Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > What EQ settings would you use to enhance presence of music/voices in > order to use a sound as a ringtone? Maybe you should try heavy compression as well... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From cesare at poeticstudios.com Mon Dec 11 18:21:22 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:24:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <200612111503.59728.lau@kudla.org> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> <200612111503.59728.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <457DE7F2.1050602@poeticstudios.com> Rob wrote: > Unfortunately, the presence of famous people doesn't > automatically make a project intuitive, modern, or good for > teaching kids. I totally agree with this. But still I respect them. Not the famous people, but great innovators. > Squeak needs some updates, and maybe it needs > new blood to make them happen, even if there are no PhD's > contributing code anymore. I couldn't care less for PhD's. I'm for self-education. Squeak, BTW, has been inspired by the construtivism theories and by softwares like Logo and HyperCard. Not really meant for PhD's. > > I personally think it needs some changes to the underlying > language to make it accessible to first-time coders > (scriptHello/self.setCharacters("Hello World")? How is that > better than TO Hello/PRINT [Hello World]/END or good ol' Sub > Main/Print "Hello World"/End? Or Sub Form_Open/Me.Text = "Hello > World"/End if you need to be all OOPsy.) > > Transcript show: 'Hello world'. c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From brad at sonaural.com Mon Dec 11 17:33:19 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Mon Dec 11 17:33:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <457DE7F2.1050602@poeticstudios.com> References: <200612102021.34236.d_baron@012.net.il> <457DAD57.7020809@poeticstudios.com> <200612111503.59728.lau@kudla.org> <457DE7F2.1050602@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457DDCAF.5080501@sonaural.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Rob wrote: >> Unfortunately, the presence of famous people doesn't automatically >> make a project intuitive, modern, or good for teaching kids. > I totally agree with this. But still I respect them. Not the famous > people, but great innovators. >> Squeak needs some updates, and maybe it needs new blood to make them >> happen, even if there are no PhD's contributing code anymore. > I couldn't care less for PhD's. I'm for self-education. Squeak, BTW, has > been inspired by the construtivism theories and by softwares like Logo > and HyperCard. Not really meant for PhD's. I believe HyperCard influenced some of the design issues with eToys, not squeak. I could be wrong. The teaching concept of Logo was reportedly an influence on smalltalk. >> >> I personally think it needs some changes to the underlying language to >> make it accessible to first-time coders >> (scriptHello/self.setCharacters("Hello World")? How is that better >> than TO Hello/PRINT [Hello World]/END or good ol' Sub Main/Print >> "Hello World"/End? Or Sub Form_Open/Me.Text = "Hello World"/End if >> you need to be all OOPsy.) >> > Transcript show: 'Hello world'. good one. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From hardbop200 at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 18:01:17 2006 From: hardbop200 at gmail.com (Josh Lawrence) Date: Mon Dec 11 18:02:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] -ck patches Message-ID: Hello all, I've noticed (and been a small part of) many discussions over the past couple of months regarding using Ingo's patches for realtime preemption. However I've seen no discussion about Con Kolivas' patches, which I know are used on some systems. Is anyone using these patches? If so, what has to be done in order to get a working audio system going using them? For example: When using Ingo's patches on Debian, one has to build/install the kernel, install the appropriate patched libpam modules, and make an entry in /etc/security/limits.conf for members of the audio group. Do the last two steps still apply with a -ck kernel? -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com From b0ef at esben-stien.name Mon Dec 11 20:14:17 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Mon Dec 11 18:26:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000d01c71cc9$8ca0ef70$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:10:37 -0500") References: <000d01c71cc9$8ca0ef70$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87wt4xq5jq.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > what is to prevent rotten apples from mangling Nothing, but when a user comes to a page where the content is destroyed, he just revert it to a previous revision. Maybe you can also set max edits per day per ip, too. Of course, a wiki where you have to register is better than no wiki, but I won't sign up, because I believe that on a wiki, you should not need to register. I also believe that the sporadic editing done by random users is very good and adds very much. I see myself in very many situations looking for a solution to a problem, then seeing issues which I've already figured out, but the wiki is not free, so I can't just change it; I have to register, but I don't do it, mostly because I can't just register on every darn wiki;). When you have a wiki where you have to register, you often get one person there and one person there, but you don't get the small edits done by hundreds of people which is what a wiki is all about, in my opinion. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 11 18:30:01 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 11 18:30:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] RE: [linux-audio-dev] OT: interesting angle on the NOVL-MSFT deal In-Reply-To: <457DE6EC.8000802@superbug.co.uk> Message-ID: <006501c71d7c$47936260$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> > None of that is a concern here. The "intellectual property risk" is only > a problem in the USA because they support software patents. We don't > have that in Europe, so the "intellectual propery risk" does not exist > in Europe. There is still "copyright protection" in Europe, but Linux > has the GPL license, so that is also not a business "risk". > > James This was not posted because of copyright/IP reasons, but rather the business model that the article implies Novell may be pushing for. Ico From b0ef at esben-stien.name Mon Dec 11 20:19:28 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Mon Dec 11 18:32:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <000e01c71cca$1ea6ae00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:14:42 -0500") References: <000e01c71cca$1ea6ae00$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87slflq5b3.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > do you mean a plural of forum? Well, a mailing list is also a forum, so I thought maybe fora.* could be the portal for all web forums and mailing lists, but that's irrelevant, really. > the consortium will gladly provide space/account for the maintainer. It's true that I have never set up such a web forum / mailing list gateway; I've only seen the code, but that was some years ago, so it should be working by now;). I just think it's a good idea and hope someone has done this before. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 11 18:36:59 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 11 18:37:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87wt4xq5jq.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> If that is what you believe in, provided you have interest and/or time, I would be more than happy to hook you up with the domain to get this thing going. What many still struggle with is that Linuxaudio.org is not some kind of a totalitarian self-proclaimed representative of LA world. Rather we strive to become the representative (without the controlling part) through friendly consolidation and adoption of resources. But we also have limited manpower to do so, hence if you are interested and have the time to see this through, let me know. Personally, I do not have the time to maintain a wiki (especially one that would be prone to such abuse), but I can certainly provide the tools to those who are willing. Someone else replied to one of my e-mails mentioning how portal.linuxaudio.org does not have all relevant linux-audio-* links. Well, we provide all links to the sites that are under our domain. If your project is relevant to our mission of consolidating resources and is interested in joining the linuxaudio.org, then by all means contact me, I'll get you the space, and your project will become a part of the portal/lao site. If nothing else, you'll get free hosting (although one would hope you would be looking for other benefits of consolidation as well)... Best wishes, Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- > user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Esben Stien > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:14 PM > To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu > Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers > > "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > > > what is to prevent rotten apples from mangling > > Nothing, but when a user comes to a page where the content is > destroyed, he just revert it to a previous revision. > > Maybe you can also set max edits per day per ip, too. > > Of course, a wiki where you have to register is better than no wiki, > but I won't sign up, because I believe that on a wiki, you should not > need to register. I also believe that the sporadic editing done by > random users is very good and adds very much. > > I see myself in very many situations looking for a solution to a > problem, then seeing issues which I've already figured out, but the > wiki is not free, so I can't just change it; I have to register, but I > don't do it, mostly because I can't just register on every darn > wiki;). > > When you have a wiki where you have to register, you often get one > person there and one person there, but you don't get the small edits > done by hundreds of people which is what a wiki is all about, in my > opinion. > > -- > Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a > http://www. s t n m > irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact > sip:b0ef@ e e > jid:b0ef@ n n From lanas at securenet.net Mon Dec 11 19:28:45 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Mon Dec 11 19:24:05 2006 Subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <1165788577.6054.5.camel@mustis> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> <1165788577.6054.5.camel@mustis> Message-ID: <20061211192845.33219b38@mistral.stie> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:09:37 +0200 Sampo Savolainen ?crivait: > On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 13:02 -0500, lanas wrote: > > Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux world ? I > > mean, these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, > > period. They did not bother trying other major distros to provide > > adjustments and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE. > > I'm sure the documentation is available for the distributions the > author of the docs is using. It's called: "Installing on something other than Ubuntu" And it says to: "Get the following packages from your distribution: * Python 2.4 * GStreamer from CVS * Python GStreamer from CVS * Gnonlin (plugin for Gstreamer) * PyGTK 2.8 * Python Glade2 * Python Cairo * Python D-Bus * Python XMLPlus * librsvg2-common (SVG rendering library for GTK) * Python Setuptools" So I call that is Ubuntu-only. The guys did not bother to try to install it on other popular distros. So, to repeat: Will we see in five years from now Ubuntu users that know nothing about Fedora and whose applications are specifically made for Ubuntu, the distro itself developing more and more specific aspects of itself that makes it involved to 'port' applications to other Linux distros ? > And nowadays, most people don't really need installation > documentation. That's beside the point. If I can install Jokosher in about 120 seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because somebody else than the developers took care of packaging it. The developers themselves did not. And this was the subject of the split I was talking about. For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ? Or is CCRMA not a 'sane' distro ? > You can just say "open your distributions package > manager and select install [insert name of application]" The following was done in a bit less than 120 seconds using Yast pointing at Packman: T?l?chargement de gstreamer010-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (810.09 Ko) gstreamer010-0.10.11 (2.64 Mo) -- Streaming-Media Framework Runtime T?l?chargement de libcaca-0.9_0.99.beta11-0.pm.0.x86_64 (302.95 Ko) libcaca-0.9_0.99.beta11 (1.13 Mo) -- Text mode graphics library T?l?chargement de liboil-0.3.10-0.pm.1.x86_64 (150.91 Ko) liboil-0.3.10 (648.56 Ko) -- Library of Optimized Inner Loops T?l?chargement de python-alsaaudio-0.2-0.pm.1.x86_64 (43.18 Ko) python-alsaaudio-0.2 (170.26 Ko) -- Wrappers for accessing the ALSA api from Python T?l?chargement de python-setuptools-0.6c3-0.pm.1.x86_64 (227.99 Ko) python-setuptools-0.6c3 (941.39 Ko) -- Python setuptools gstreamer010-plugins-base-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (531.88 Ko) T?l?chargement de gnonlin-0.10.6-0.pm.1.x86_64 (65.30 Ko) gnonlin-0.10.6 (219.86 Ko) -- Gnonlin is a library for writing non-linear editing apps T?l?chargement de gstreamer010-plugins-base-oil-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (48.33 Ko) gstreamer010-plugins-base-oil-0.10.11 (137.93 Ko) -- GStreamer Streaming-Media Framework Plug-Ins T?l?chargement de gstreamer010-plugins-good-0.10.4.1-0.pm.1.x86_64 (501.27 Ko) gstreamer010-plugins-good-0.10.4.1 (1.57 Mo) -- GStreamer Streaming-Media Framework Plug-Ins T?l?chargement de python-gstreamer010-0.10.6-0.pm.1.x86_64 (222.89 Ko) python-gstreamer010-0.10.6 (834.61 Ko) -- Python Bindings for GStreamer6 T?l?chargement de jokosher-0.2-0.pm.1.x86_64 (426.88 Ko) And what do we have ? The following: jokosher.sh Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/JokosherApp.py", line 15, in ? import AddInstrumentDialog, TimeView, CompactMixView File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/CompactMixView.py", line 13, in ? import RecordingView File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/RecordingView.py", line 13, in ? import InstrumentViewer File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/InstrumentViewer.py", line 14, in ? from EventLaneViewer import * File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/EventLaneViewer.py", line 15, in ? from EventViewer import * File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/EventViewer.py", line 15, in ? import cairo ImportError: No module named cairo Big deal. Guess I'll have to install a 'sane' distro ! Cheers, Al From lars.luthman at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 19:54:01 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Mon Dec 11 19:57:58 2006 Subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <20061211192845.33219b38@mistral.stie> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> <1165788577.6054.5.camel@mustis> <20061211192845.33219b38@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <1165884841.11796.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 19:28 -0500, lanas wrote: > That's beside the point. If I can install Jokosher in about 120 > seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not > exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because somebody > else than the developers took care of packaging it. The developers > themselves did not. You can't expect programmers to write detailed documentation for every Foobar Linux out there. The only thing that can be reasonably expected is generic installation instructions - "install these versions of these libraries then run 'make install'". Making things work seamlessly with Foobar Linux is the job of the packagers and distribution maintainers of Foobar Linux, any distribution-specific info from the actual programmers is just a bonus. > For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ? I don't know if there is one, but if there isn't, wouldn't it be up to the CCRMA people to package it and not the Jokosher authors? -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061212/21955e63/attachment.bin From b0ef at esben-stien.name Mon Dec 11 21:42:41 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Mon Dec 11 19:58:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:36:59 -0500") References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > I do not have the time to maintain a wiki That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because the users removes the spam. You install a wiki, then leave it be. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From chris at mccormick.cx Mon Dec 11 20:39:33 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:24:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] EQ settings for enhanced presence In-Reply-To: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> References: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> Message-ID: <20061212013932.GA17140@mccormick.cx> Hi Ismael, Sounds like you want to increase the 'loudness' without increasing the peak of the waves beyond their maximum. I am definately no expert in audio but when I want to make drums sound louder without increasing their overall waveform amplitude, I use a Puredata patch to do waveshaping. This distorts the waveform, stretching it upwards so that there is more power/energy under the wave but the peaks of the wave are the same. I think that this is actually a form of compression, but as I said, I'm no expert. Chris. On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 03:41:55PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > I'd like to use a song as the ringtone for my mobile. The song is > "Moonriver" by Henry Mancini as sang by Audrey Hepburn herself in one > of the sequences of that lovely "Breakfast at Tiffany's". > > But it's not certainly a noisy song so to make sure I can hear > somebody calling in more or less noisy environments, I am trying to > use Audacity in order to equalize the sound so it has enhanced > presence. > > Usually preset sounds in mobile phones are heavily equalized so they > stand out in a noisy environment when the phone rings. > > I've enhanced a bit the 200-400 Hz band supposing there's the "body" > of the vocal sound. Then I've enhanced 3 KHz to give a bit more > clarity and 8 KHz so voice sounds a bit "hotter". Result is more or > less ok, but I wonder... > > What EQ settings would you use to enhance presence of music/voices in > order to use a sound as a ringtone? > > Cordially, Ismael > -- > Ismael Valladolid Torres > > http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ m. +34679156321 > http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt j. ivalladt@jabberes.org > > ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From chris at mccormick.cx Mon Dec 11 20:48:47 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:29:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 12:34:11PM +0100, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 04:28:32AM +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > But assuming for a moment there is something in there that is a bonus > to humanity, as art is, I wonder why it can apparently be expressed > only in a context of violence and killing, and in a simplistic mindset > consisting of 'good' and 'evil'. Fons, I am not having a go at you, because this is a commonly held misconception, and many many people in high positions in government and censorship bodies speak from similar ignorance about video games, but I must correct this statement. The majority of games do not involve killing or violence. One of the largest, and definately the fastest growing sector in the game industry is the 'casual games' sector. The demographics of players are 76% women, and 71% over 40, and they are not playing games that depict violence and killing. The top selling game of all time is the Sims, which has nothing to do with violence or killing. I don't have any statistical evidence to back up this next bit, but if you walk into a video games store and take a look around, you will find that most of the games are not about killing. This is especially skewed for some consoles (such as Gamecube or DS) because companies like Nintendo tend to steer away from such content and you will find no killing whatsoever in any of the games for those systems. In addition to this many games do not have a simplistic mindset consisting of 'good' and 'evil'. Many have complex plots that would rival a Shakespearean play, or a Tolstoy novel. First person shooters are sometimes an example of this, but only one small piece of the giant, delicious, story-driven games pie. I think this is one of the difficulties with arguing for or against games, or game playing as an artform - the field is so utterly varied in style, representation and content that it's very difficult to generalise. I think that that in itself speaks volumes about whether or not to judge games and game playing as art. Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From chris at mccormick.cx Mon Dec 11 20:50:26 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:31:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 05:44:30AM -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: > You're talking about talent and physical prowess. They are not > synonymous with genius. > > Neither is intelligence any index of genius. > > Ascribing "art" as a qualifier to any endeavor simply reduces the > accuracy and meaning of the term. "Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing by a music school?" -- John Cage Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From robin at gareus.org Mon Dec 11 21:14:19 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:34:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <457E1037.3070104@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Esben Stien wrote: > "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > >> I do not have the time to maintain a wiki > > That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to > register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because > the users removes the spam. > > You install a wiki, then leave it be. I think I'll try that approach. it would be interesting to plot how this scales with the number of content-pages / visitor-count. But the result depends highly on the enthusiasm of the community.. media upload could cause some headaches on an open system! anyway, all the CAPTCHA and registration discussing is something that we should not concern ourselves too much with. It is clear that we need a nice, clean and quick solution, but it's a wiki's not a audio developer's job! for my little experiment I use git as an additional revision control (above|below) dokuwiki. Clearly nothing for end-users, but it might get some command line freaks (like me) to review and merge changes.. and it certainly can come in handy for removing pollution, or even taking a copy with you for off-line edit (not that this would make any sense for the linux-sound-index, but for articles it will). #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFfhA3eVUk8U+VK0IRAkHIAJ434GjNPKqAi6VZ+fq5itFBnbDsiACePfj3 yVQ69+BfTnnsxxS4xwC0pdg= =NJfc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chris at mccormick.cx Mon Dec 11 21:01:31 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:36:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612111442.30190.lau@kudla.org> References: <20061211120342.GB5897@linux-1.site> <457DA8A6.2050601@poeticstudios.com> <200612111442.30190.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20061212020131.GD17140@mccormick.cx> On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 02:42:30PM -0500, Rob wrote: > On Monday 11 December 2006 13:51, Cesare Marilungo wrote: > A person's skill at an art can ONLY be measured > subjectively. "His bread is always chewy, but tender and > flavorful." "He makes me cry with his reading of Rachmaninov > every time." And on the videogame front.... what? "She can > play blindfolded?" "She can do a little dance while she frags > people?" On games like DDR you can add a little flair to your > performance because it's meant to be a performance. On games > that people play competitively, like first person shooters.... > I'm not so sure what the artistic component would be. Ok sure, first person shooters are more like Tennis than Rachmaninov, but I have heard exactly such subjective arguments in the LAN room over a can of softdrink, about the finesse and style of a particular player who is a genius at the art of the first person shooter. I have heard players say that they like the style of one player over another even though the other is more skillful and wins more often. I've heard the same thing from people watching football. I beleive that there is artistry in good football playing just as much as there is artistry in good piano playing and good first person shooter playing and good break making. I definately believe that there is virutosity in many games, and that it can parallel that of musical virtuosity, whilst being quite different. I am not only talking about first person shooters! Also, what about games that people don't play competitively? What about games like Simcity where people play creatively? Or games with a high degree of customisation like Animal Crossing? In that case, the game player is most definately an artist by any measure of the word. Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 11 21:24:17 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:42:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] -ck patches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1165890257.9342.18.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 17:01 -0600, Josh Lawrence wrote: > Hello all, > > I've noticed (and been a small part of) many discussions over the past > couple of months regarding using Ingo's patches for realtime > preemption. However I've seen no discussion about Con Kolivas' > patches, which I know are used on some systems. Is anyone using these > patches? If so, what has to be done in order to get a working audio > system going using them? For example: When using Ingo's patches on > Debian, one has to build/install the kernel, install the appropriate > patched libpam modules, and make an entry in /etc/security/limits.conf > for members of the audio group. > Do the last two steps still apply > with a -ck kernel? > The last two steps have nothing to do with any kernel patch. They simply allow non-root users to use realtime scheduling, which is useful for pro audio no matter what kernel you run. Con's patches are intended to improve interactivity for gaming and desktop stuff where everything runs at the same priority and the scheduler has to basically guess who to give the CPU to. They should have no effect on pro audio applications, which explicitly request a high-priority scheduling class. Lee From ico at vt.edu Mon Dec 11 21:46:48 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Mon Dec 11 21:57:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <001301c71d97$c4f4e740$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to > register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because > the users removes the spam. > > You install a wiki, then leave it be. We still need a scaffolding to propose structure as well as at least one example documentation which will serve as a reference. Design is another issue as vanilla Wiki pages are plain ugly. Hence, I am not doing it unless I have time to spare (which I don't) in order to do it right. You and others are welcome to try... Best wishes, Ico From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 22:09:19 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 22:14:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote: > That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to > register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, > because the users removes the spam. > > You install a wiki, then leave it be. That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like Wikipedia. On any other wiki, what the spammers count on for their business model is that people are not looking at the recent changes page 20 times a day to delete Chinese search engine bait. On a public site with a moderate pagerank and a few hundred users making updates a few dozen times a day, like the one I ran for Gambas documentation (it's still there, and still called a wiki, but it's really a CMS with more structure than a wiki) once they found it, it was totally out of hand. Even with registration, if you're running any common kind of wiki software, like Mediawiki or TWiki, there are thousands of bots out there that will auto-register and post spam. You need a CAPTCHA or email verification besides the registration. And even if your site is as active as Wikipedia, that means the site is big enough that it's going to need constant maintenance anyway for non-content-related reasons. The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be tended constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set it and forget it" situation. Rob From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 22:26:16 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 22:39:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> References: <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <200612112226.16636.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 20:48, Chris McCormick wrote: > around, you will find that most of the games are not about > killing. This is especially skewed for some consoles (such as > Gamecube or DS) because companies like Nintendo tend to steer > away from such content and you will find no killing whatsoever > in any of the games for those systems. This is another common misconception; the existence of games like Splinter Cell and Resident Evil for Nintendo's consoles doesn't get a lot of notice because Nintendo's own games never go above a T rating, but they're there. But yeah, it's been a while since I played a straight-up good vs. evil game. I bet I've played Animal Crossing (a game with a higher-than-average musical component, actually) more this past year than any other game. Assuming that videogames all have the same shallow theme is kind of like assuming that all "Heavy Metal, New Age" music will cause you "to lose the only way to Salvation." It contributes nothing to the debate and it makes the holder of the assumption look like a loon. Rob From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 11 22:39:18 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 11 22:45:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212020131.GD17140@mccormick.cx> References: <200612111442.30190.lau@kudla.org> <20061212020131.GD17140@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <200612112239.18699.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 11 December 2006 21:01, Chris McCormick wrote: > heard the same thing from people watching football. I beleive > that there is artistry in good football playing just as much > as there is artistry in good piano playing and good first > person shooter playing and good break making. You can *find* art in any human endeavor, right up to and including war and murder. In some endeavors, though, the primary measure of the result is objective (the score in a football game, the number of kills in a shooter) and in others it's all subjective (like the visual and musical arts.) People may make art on the way to their objective goals, in competitive sports and gaming and feeding their families and love and murder, but the art isn't the point. No doubt sooner or later, to prove me wrong, there'll be a performance artist whose art consists of sitting on a sofa playing Doom 6 or whatever. (For maximum irony, he should actually sit there playing "E.T." on the Atari 2600.) I'll leave the debate over whether it's actually art to the art critics who are around at that time, because I honestly won't care. Rob From smoak at mis.net Mon Dec 11 23:57:25 2006 From: smoak at mis.net (M P Smoak) Date: Mon Dec 11 23:43:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] -ck patches In-Reply-To: <1165890257.9342.18.camel@mindpipe> References: <1165890257.9342.18.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <200612112357.25766.smoak@mis.net> On Monday 11 December 2006 09:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > They should > have no effect on pro audio applications, which explicitly request a > high-priority scheduling class. > > Lee Lee, thanks for this answer. I think you're saying that the Ingo and Con patches can function simultaneously. So, I can run pro audio and "low priority" desktop stuff at the same time and audio gets realtime as needed and desktop gets balanced over what's left? If so, that sounds real useable. marv From capocasa at gmx.net Tue Dec 12 00:26:19 2006 From: capocasa at gmx.net (Carlo Capocasa) Date: Tue Dec 12 00:26:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As we say the biggest obstacle to the linux audio community is a lot bigger than programming. What we are essentially doing is introducing a gift economy in a world of barter economy. I'm a big fan of futurist Jacques Fresno, who advocates just that; a world where barter is unnecessary, because producers of crops and grain and builders and weavers all are so effective and so wise they have found a way to sustain all the population without using barter, essentially the same way free software is distributed. So the long run solution to the free audio problem is to persuade everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they should want it. The mid term solution is to learn to attract money to the point where linux audio software can be developed full time. There is a marketer called Joe Vitale (http://www.mrfire.com) who wrote a lot of books about P.T. Barnum. It was Barnum's recipe to offer something for free, and then make money on the way there. So what we need is to find a way to make free software development a lucrative thing to do. Damn Small Linux seem to be quite successful at that. So does, of course, the Mozilla foundation. I believe we need to treat free software like a commercial product, with the same vigor in promotion as in production; only that we divide our sales process in two. First we persuade our potential customer to use our product... then we persuade the person to donate. The whole difference is that we don't threaten people who decide not to donate but instead use our persuasion skills. It can be done. Carlo... Proposing not 'financed open source development' or 'a business which also produces open source software' but a complete fusion of and bridge between the two worlds as stepping stones towards a free society where this whole discussion is completely unnecessary because the problem has already been constructively solved. From b0ef at esben-stien.name Tue Dec 12 02:38:57 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Tue Dec 12 00:50:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> (Fons Adriaensen's message of "Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:34:11 +0100") References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <87fyblpnqm.fsf@esben-stien.name> Fons Adriaensen writes: > a context of violence and killing You know, I often meet this statement, as if I'm enjoying murder. It couldn't be further from the truth. I don't even watch thrillers;). I actually don't see any connection between blowing a computer character up, which is controlled by another person and homicide;). If I did, that would be a very dangerous thought. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From bengan at sunet.se Tue Dec 12 02:21:53 2006 From: bengan at sunet.se (Bengt =?iso-8859-1?q?G=F6rd=E9n?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 02:22:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <200612120821.53826.bengan@sunet.se> tisdag 12 december 2006 04:09 skrev Rob: > On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote: > > That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to > > register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, > > because the users removes the spam. > > > > You install a wiki, then leave it be. > > That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like > Wikipedia. Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? All support is already there. It only needs LAU or LAD input. Some work has already begun. ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_audio_software regards, /bengan From mathias.friman at knorca.se Tue Dec 12 03:20:05 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Tue Dec 12 03:20:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Source-files for lowlatency.linuxaudio.org? Message-ID: Hi. I want to update the low latency mini howto at http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org and I just wonder if there is any SGML-source or if it is just to start with the html-source from the site? It seems a bit unnecessary to rewrite the HTML when there exists a SGML file already, than can be modified instead. :) Regards, Mathias From ivalladolidt at terra.es Tue Dec 12 04:17:41 2006 From: ivalladolidt at terra.es (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Tue Dec 12 04:18:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] EQ settings for enhanced presence In-Reply-To: <20061212013932.GA17140@mccormick.cx> References: <20061211144155.GD956@terra.es> <20061212013932.GA17140@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <20061212091741.GS1920@terra.es> Chris McCormick escribe: > Sounds like you want to increase the 'loudness' without increasing the > peak of the waves beyond their maximum. I am definately no expert in > audio but when I want to make drums sound louder without increasing their > overall waveform amplitude, I use a Puredata patch to do waveshaping. This > distorts the waveform, stretching it upwards so that there is more > power/energy under the wave but the peaks of the wave are the same. I > think that this is actually a form of compression, but as I said, I'm > no expert. Heavy compression is more or less on itself a form of distortion. Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ m. +34679156321 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt j. ivalladt@jabberes.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061212/d7f777c3/attachment.bin From atte.jensen at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 04:52:04 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 05:01:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Source-files for lowlatency.linuxaudio.org? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457E7BC4.9080602@gmail.com> Mathias Friman wrote > It seems a bit unnecessary to rewrite the HTML when there exists a > SGML file already, than can be modified instead. :) It seems to me that it's so outdated that you might as well start from scratch... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From atte.jensen at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:05:14 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:05:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> Chris McCormick wrote: > "Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing > by a music school?" -- John Cage Which is more musical, 4 minutes and 33 seconds silence or 4 minutes and 33 seconds of any sound what-so-ever? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From arnold.krille at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:12:01 2006 From: arnold.krille at gmail.com (Arnold Krille) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:12:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] soundcard sharing irq with idle devices In-Reply-To: <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> References: <456FEAD9.5080206@gmail.com> <45708504.2020101@tobiah.org> <1165003556.12607.236.camel@mindpipe> <45709646.1080000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2def88b80612120312v3c43b99fl55b5fc7d386b9710@mail.gmail.com> 2006/12/1, Atte Andr? Jensen : > After doing this + setting the priority of the audiocards (+ unused pc > cards + unused modem + SMBus controller (still not sure what that is), > these share "group") I found that the source of all my trouble was > powernowd. I removed that (actually I don't feel any difference, maybe > battery will last longer) and things work *extremely much* better. Well, powernowd changes the cpu-speed according to system-usage. These changes cause jack to bail out _every_ time this happens at my machine. So before doing any audio-work I always select the performance-governour to control cpu-speed... Arnold -- visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/ --- Wenn man mit Raubkopien Bands wie Brosis oder Britney Spears wirklich verhindern k?nnte, w?rde ich mir noch heute einen Stapel Brenner und einen Sack Rohlinge kaufen. From atte.jensen at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:15:30 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:15:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <457E8F52.1050505@gmail.com> Rob wrote: > The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be tended > constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set > it and forget it" situation. I kinda agree with you, but I don't think it's *that* bad. Have a look at http://atte.dk/om-wiki/, which just sits there for months. I just cleaned up one spam, but besides that have a look at recent changes... It has a very simple anti-spam feature (that I wrote) which is described here: http://atte.dk/om-wiki/AntiSpamFeature -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From ivalladolidt at terra.es Tue Dec 12 06:16:55 2006 From: ivalladolidt at terra.es (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:17:34 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] PAM rlimits patched at seite9.de down Message-ID: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> PAM with patches for rlimits packaged for Debian used to be available [1]here. But the site's been down for weeks. Do this mean that rlimits aware PAM has reached Etch? If they haven't, are patched packages available anywhere else? 1. http://seite9.de/~burkhard/pam_debian_rlimits/ Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ m. +34679156321 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt j. ivalladt@jabberes.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061212/17e5e447/attachment.bin From fbar at footils.org Tue Dec 12 06:33:26 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:46:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612112239.18699.lau@kudla.org> References: <200612111442.30190.lau@kudla.org> <20061212020131.GD17140@mccormick.cx> <200612112239.18699.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20061212113326.GF12168@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Rob hat gesagt: // Rob wrote: > No doubt sooner or later, to prove me wrong, there'll be a > performance artist whose art consists of sitting on a sofa > playing Doom 6 or whatever. Rather sooner that later, actually it was in 2003: http://selectparks.net/archive/q3apd.htm Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Tue Dec 12 06:36:23 2006 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:47:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457E8F52.1050505@gmail.com> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> <457E8F52.1050505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200612121136.23472.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> On Tuesday 12 Dec 2006 11:15, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > I kinda agree with you, but I don't think it's *that* bad. Have a look > at http://atte.dk/om-wiki/ A wiki written in awk! I love it already. Wonder why I haven't heard of that one before. Is your anti-spam bit in the CVS tree, or otherwise available? Chris From renick at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:37:42 2006 From: renick at gmail.com (Renick Bell) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:48:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: > Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? All support is already there. It > only needs LAU or LAD input. > > Some work has already begun. > > ref. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_audio_software I agree with this idea. Rather than spend valuable time maintaining a wiki, spend that time contributing in a place where those to-be-attracted developers and users might run across it, rather than a more isolated Linux-only wiki. For example, why does Audio software redirect to a page about editors? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_software We should have stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Audio_software&redirect=no There's also the strange case of "Main Five sequencers" on this page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_sequencer One way to attract users is to dispel this kind of idea. -- Renick Bell http://www.the3rd2nd.com From atte.jensen at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:48:30 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 06:55:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612121136.23472.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> <457E8F52.1050505@gmail.com> <200612121136.23472.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> Message-ID: <457E970E.5080706@gmail.com> Chris Cannam wrote: > Is your anti-spam bit in the CVS tree, or otherwise available? Yes, look here: http://atte.dk/awkiawki/DownloadArea -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From jamesmstone at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 07:04:02 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Tue Dec 12 07:06:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] PAM rlimits patched at seite9.de down In-Reply-To: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> Message-ID: <20061212120402.GA10737@moon.base> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 12:16:55PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > PAM with patches for rlimits packaged for Debian used to be available > [1]here. But the site's been down for weeks. Do this mean that rlimits > aware PAM has reached Etch? If they haven't, are patched packages > available anywhere else? > > 1. http://seite9.de/~burkhard/pam_debian_rlimits/ > The current libpam-modules (0.79-4) for Debian works fine with rlimits and has reached etch for all but hurd-i386! James From fons at kokkinizita.net Tue Dec 12 07:14:58 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue Dec 12 07:11:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <20061212121458.GA5887@linux-1.site> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:48:47AM +0800, Chris McCormick wrote: > On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 12:34:11PM +0100, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 04:28:32AM +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > > But assuming for a moment there is something in there that is a bonus > > to humanity, as art is, I wonder why it can apparently be expressed > > only in a context of violence and killing, and in a simplistic mindset > > consisting of 'good' and 'evil'. > > I am not having a go at you, because this is a commonly held > misconception, and many many people in high positions in government > and censorship bodies speak from similar ignorance about video games, > but I must correct this statement. The games world is not one I live in, and I do confess to a degree of ignorance on the subject. But the thing that started this thread was 'console virtuosity'. Would I be wrong in assuming that this skill matters mainly in those games that mimic action, and that this action often has a violent character ? It's a genuine question, not a state- ment of fact. > The majority of games do not involve killing or violence. That's true. And even those that do are not necessarily a problem to most people. They probably are to a minority which has difficulties separating the real world from fiction, in the same way as there are people that believe that soap series characters are real. That is for me no reason to advocate censorship. But I find it kind of scary that there are some people who build up a very idealised picture of violence simply because they are able to play with it and get rewarded for doing so, without ever having to experience what it feels like to be beaten to pieces or burnt to death. > In addition to this many games do not have a simplistic mindset > consisting of 'good' and 'evil'. Many have complex plots that would > rival a Shakespearean play, or a Tolstoy novel. Returning from moralities to art, a complex plot doesn't by itself mean much. If you look at the highlights of 'artistic' literature, drama or film, you will often find that the plot is quite simple, and is only a framework for the real content which is at a very different level, or at many different levels. This is certainly the case with the two authors you mention. Which is one reason why you can enjoy these things over and over again even if you know the plot by heart. Another one for some art forms like music is the element of performance which adds a new dimension on its own. Music is special as it can be completely abstract. There is no plot in a Bach cello suite except in music-structural sense - but it's still both an intellectual and physical challenge. We seem to enjoy 'decoding complexity', and even more so if it's presented in an abstract way. Which is probably one element of appeal in many games. > I think this is one of the difficulties with arguing for or against games, > or game playing as an artform - the field is so utterly varied in style, > representation and content that it's very difficult to generalise. I > think that that in itself speaks volumes about whether or not to judge > games and game playing as art. Agreed. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From wagi at monom.org Tue Dec 12 07:49:22 2006 From: wagi at monom.org (Daniel Wagner) Date: Tue Dec 12 07:49:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Focusrite Saffire LE vs. Presonus Firebox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457EA552.8030302@monom.org> > I'm looking to buy some firewire sound card, and I have got a very good price on a > Focusrite Saffire LE, but it says on the Freebob website about the Saffire: > "FireWire Interface with DSP - DSP and mixer not supported by FreeBob". What does > this mean practically? IRC, the Saffire has configurable mixer build in and a DSP which freebob has no control software (gui etc) for it. If the basic setup (after powering the device up) is ok for you, the thing should work with freebob. But you can't change anything at this point. > Which are the pros and cons compared to the Presonus Firebox which I can obtain for > a marginally higher price? Is the Focusrite Saffire LE even fully workable under Linux? I don't think so (see above) > If "mixer" means the included control software for Windows, what possibilities for > controlling the device exists? yes > And is the support for the Firebox sufficient, or should I go for something completely > different in the same or even lower pricerange? > > I'm thinking of even buying a Presonus Firepod if I can get it at a good price, is this > something that is 100% supported, or are there still things that need to be fixed? Freebob works fairly good but nothing is 100%. There are a few people around which use those devices. Maybe some of them can drop a line if it works for them. cheers, daniel From hannu at opensound.com Tue Dec 12 08:00:19 2006 From: hannu at opensound.com (Hannu Savolainen) Date: Tue Dec 12 08:00:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> Carlo Capocasa wrote: > So the long run solution to the free audio problem is to persuade > everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and > find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make > the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they > should want it. > Why don't you start by persuading yourself to provide whatever you do for free, etc? It's easy to insist that others should do free work for you. But are you ready to do full time hard work for free for the others? > The mid term solution is to learn to attract money to the point where > linux audio software can be developed full time. > Brilliant idea. Someone else should pay to somebody else so that you can get Linux audio software for free. What about paying for the software yourself? About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90% of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there is no market for professional developers. Best regards, Hannu From julien.lociuro at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 08:19:37 2006 From: julien.lociuro at gmail.com (julien bodd) Date: Tue Dec 12 08:19:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [Music] Freewheeling first try Message-ID: <31d6485d0612120519u4a8c5c08j6722173a849e9520@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I want to share this song I've composed yesterday on my first freewheeling test. Composed within 2 hours. I'm just impressed about freewheeling. http://www.archive.org/details/oddNature p.s : this is just a draft, not finished, not mixed, etc.. cheers, julien. From mathias.friman at knorca.se Tue Dec 12 08:22:51 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Tue Dec 12 08:25:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> Hannu Savolainen wrote: > About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux > audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90% > of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software > developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use > them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there > is no market for professional developers. I don't think that the professional developers that code for Linux on their spare time agrees with you on that subject. :) Or all the people employed by Novell, RedHat, Ubuntu etc. Money is not the sole motivator, and it does not guarantee quality. There is no lack of good programs for linux audio production, what it lacks is documentation and an overall picture. If there existed a one-mouseclick-install Linux audio solution that ran VST-synths, had a latency of below 2 msec and with an abundance of documentation and user following, there would be no discussion. I personally think that it is the amount of study-time and steep learning curve that deters the people from adopting Linux. And since linux audio has got such a narrow spectrum and few followers, there is noone close at hand to ask questions. This list is a perfect example. If I had the same amount of knowledge available from swedish speaking people, I wouldn't bother much with this list. :) International relations is all well and good, but as most people I prefer to use my native tongue. Kiitos (or something), Mathias From forest at alittletooquiet.net Tue Dec 12 08:40:27 2006 From: forest at alittletooquiet.net (Forest Bond) Date: Tue Dec 12 08:40:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] PAM rlimits patched at seite9.de down In-Reply-To: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> Message-ID: <20061212134027.GF25135@storm.local.network> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 12:16:55PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > PAM with patches for rlimits packaged for Debian used to be available > [1]here. But the site's been down for weeks. Do this mean that rlimits > aware PAM has reached Etch? If they haven't, are patched packages > available anywhere else? I was under the impression that Debian Etch had this. If not, Ubuntu has had it since Dapper. You can grab the .deb source from archive.ubuntu.com; you should probably rebuild it, as there may be library differences between your system and the standard Ubuntu system. -Forest -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061212/e75dce10/attachment-0001.bin From d_baron at 012.net.il Tue Dec 12 09:37:02 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Tue Dec 12 09:50:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612121637.03057.d_baron@012.net.il> > David Baron wrote: >> Just installed it. A very creative but frustrating package. As with >> too many of these things, one must be able to read and that in >> English (or a few European languages?). Fine print abounds in what at >> first looks like a very sparse UI. >> >> The program abounds with objects and widgets. Some very creative and >> versatile, others frustratingly crude. Graphic objects like squares >> cannot be resized (nothing stops one from reprogramming them and then >> dutifully uploading the scalable versions for others to >> enjoy--smalltalk was once the rage.) >> * * * >>> > Apart from Alan Kay himself > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewpoints_Research_Institute), take a > > look at the Viewpoint Research Board of Advisors: > > > > http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/about.html > > > > John Perry Barlow, Vint Cerf, Richard Dawkins, Doug Engelbart, Marvin > > Minsky, Nicholas Negroponte, Seymour Papert and so on. > > > > Doesn't any of these names ring a bell? Anyway, at VR, they're using > > and continuing the development of squeak. > > > > Did you know that you're making ridicule of a big chunk of the history > > of informatics? > > > > Ciao, > > > > c. > > Sorry. I've been harsh in my reply, with no true reasons to do so. > > I should have just said that maybe you've to give it another try. Or > investigate a bit more on the project. > > Sorry again. Accepted. No intent to ridicule anything or anyone. The beginning of this thread was Sottware sutiable for children and Squeak and Etoys recommended. Squeak is a programming environment which will run Etoys (which I did not find to install on it). It is fun, cute, allbeit out of date. Leave out kids that do not read fluently English--everything on linux is multilingual/unicode nowadays. For kids, a more symbolic interface could be used. I would like to see Etoys. I haven't touched smalltalk in the 26 years but may try some squeakie stuff sometime. From d_baron at 012.net.il Tue Dec 12 09:42:07 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Tue Dec 12 10:02:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612121642.07211.d_baron@012.net.il> On Monday 11 December 2006 21:47, linux-audio-user-request@music.columbia.edu wrote: > > Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is incompatable > > with mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my daughter, not in UI > > and cannot type it in to text objects either. Truetype fonts (newer than > > smalltalk80) are beatutiful but they are also Unicode based nowadays. > > I'm not a language expert, to say the least. I don't know about Hebrew > usage in Squeak. But, Unicode and multilingual support is supported (I > think from version 3.7 on, don't know.) If it isn't translated to Hebrew > yet, why not help us by doing so! I believe squeak in German, French, > Spanish and Japanese are available. > > Today's True type fonts are also supported. Bring up a squeak text widget and try to type in Hebrew. I go nothing in. Hebrew support is more than Unicode--Hebrew and Arabic are right-to-left languages. German, French, etc, do not require unicode to work. The Japanese will argue the point. If I knew enough computereze in Hebrew, I would love to do the translation. However, I cannot read Hebrew computer stuff so well myself. My daughter (remember, we are talking about stuff for kids) does not read English computer stuff so well. Her KDE and locale is Hebrew. Mine is English. From d_baron at 012.net.il Tue Dec 12 09:47:17 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Tue Dec 12 10:02:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612121647.17155.d_baron@012.net.il> On Monday 11 December 2006 21:47, linux-audio-user-request@music.columbia.edu wrote: > Some links: > Unicode in Squeak: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/857 3.8 is apparently not as yet distributed Looking forward to try it. > > A design and implementation paper on Multilingualized squeak: > http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/m17npaper/index.html Not unicode and probably not desirable if we want interoperability outside of squak. > > Multilingualized squeak: > http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/squeak-multilingual-e.html > > HowTo Squeak in Russian: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5773 From d_baron at 012.net.il Tue Dec 12 09:51:49 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Tue Dec 12 10:11:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612121651.49535.d_baron@012.net.il> >> Some links: >> Unicode in Squeak: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/857 >3.8 is apparently not as yet distributed Looking forward to try it. Current version is a 3.8u. So the text widget I tried still did not work with Hebrew (or simply did not work BIDI). From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Tue Dec 12 11:46:37 2006 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Tue Dec 12 11:54:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165774127.2138.81.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> References: <1165688242.9578.111.camel@localhost> <1165743085.2138.55.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <457C3633.2020603@boosthardware.com> <1165774127.2138.81.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <457EDCED.8020404@boosthardware.com> Mathias Friman wrote: > > So how do I contribute to your Linux Audio User Guide? I really like the > idea, and some of the things on the site. I'd like to suggest some > improvements though. I'll do that in a private email instead of on the > list, if you are interested? > Your more than welcome to send feedback, suggestions and contributions... -- Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. Http://www.boosthardware.com Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide ======================================== "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become reality" - Macka B From orford at zonnet.nl Tue Dec 12 12:14:51 2006 From: orford at zonnet.nl (Tim Orford) Date: Tue Dec 12 12:17:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <1165788887.2138.109.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> References: <000401c71ca0$962b6580$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <1165788887.2138.109.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> Message-ID: <20061212171451.GN8883@orford.org> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 11:14:46PM +0100, Mathias Friman wrote: > > Do you mind saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts > > Don't put too much weight into that, as stated, all I did was a CSS-file > that changed the colours and spacings for the tables at ladspavst... I > posted it using the feedback-link on the page and included my email. It > is very possible that the message didn't even get through.. The feedback form on the site appears to be not working. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. The page could do with a freshen-up, so please send me the css file via email :-) -- Tim Orford From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Tue Dec 12 12:29:58 2006 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Tue Dec 12 12:30:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> References: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> Message-ID: <457EE716.1060307@boosthardware.com> Hannu Savolainen wrote: > > About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux > audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90% > of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software > developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use > them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there > is no market for professional developers. > By amatuers, do you mean unpaid? This is the second time in the past couple of months you have referred to the wider Linux Audio Developers community as amatuers. I'm wondering if it is an ESL thing or if you truly believe that we are all amatuers? Cheers. -- Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd. Http://www.boosthardware.com Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide ======================================== "Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become reality" - Macka B From markknecht at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 13:18:22 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Tue Dec 12 13:18:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [Music] Freewheeling first try In-Reply-To: <31d6485d0612120519u4a8c5c08j6722173a849e9520@mail.gmail.com> References: <31d6485d0612120519u4a8c5c08j6722173a849e9520@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612121018y4fc14534yc7fcb481543ea679@mail.gmail.com> Hi Julien, I enjoyed it. It is somewhat limited to the loop nature of freewheeling itself, but I felt you did a good job within those confines by adding in different textures and voices. thanks for sharing. cheers, Mark On 12/12/06, julien bodd wrote: > Hi, > I want to share this song I've composed yesterday on my first > freewheeling test. Composed within 2 hours. I'm just impressed about > freewheeling. > > http://www.archive.org/details/oddNature > > p.s : this is just a draft, not finished, not mixed, etc.. > > cheers, > > julien. > From john at johnlyon.tzo.com Tue Dec 12 13:36:09 2006 From: john at johnlyon.tzo.com (John Lyon) Date: Tue Dec 12 13:36:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212121458.GA5887@linux-1.site> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <8764cjw5cy.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211005534.GA5906@linux-1.site> <87irgjun4v.fsf@esben-stien.name> <20061211113411.GA5897@linux-1.site> <20061212014847.GB17140@mccormick.cx> <20061212121458.GA5887@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <3654.192.168.0.13.1165948569.squirrel@johnlyon.tzo.com> I've been following this thread, and thought I would add some comments. Defining High Art is always personal. It has a lot to do with upbringing and (sometimes) luck. Sports-lovers often beget sports-lovers; music lovers often beget music lovers. I have read so many interviews with great musicians who speak of growing up in a musical household. This is not universal, but its very, very common. My parents weren't big Shakespeare fans, but they memorized and recitied poems that are hundreds of lines long (like "Horatius at the Bridge". So maybe it's not surprising that I ended up admiring Shakespeare. It usually takes time and effort to begin to appreciate high art, and before we make that effort, the stuff we do appreicate may turn out to be 'low art' (once we are able to really compare things). It also requires intelligence and sensitivity. Not everybody will be able to 'get it'. And nobody has the time, energy, and intelligence to get all of it (fine art, music, theatre, literature, sculpture, philosophy, the elegence and art of scientific discovery, etc.) By the way, the highest art often includes violence, even extreme violence; check out Shakespeare's "MacBeth" or "Hamlet" or the Illiad, or Dante's "Inferno". Man, there's hardly anyone stnding by the end. Yet, our best and brightest affirm, generation after generation, that these are examples of High Art. Often over the past thirty years, I have ended up investigating different pieces of music or literature, because tradition holds that they are great art. I can't honestly say I like all of it, or that it all moves me, but I can say that I agree with most of what our culture says is high art. And I'm sure we all have 'guilty pleasures', things we enjoy which nobody would call 'high art'. For me, growing up in the age of comic books (I was born in 1947), Carl Barks 'Uncle Scrooge' comics were 'good beyond hope'. (I found out later that they actually outsold everything, and kids would write in and ask Walt Disney (who always put his name on his comics) for more stories by 'the good artist'. Wonderful). This subject is so important! It's not easy deciding what is really valuable in our lives, but the struggle is so rewarding. It is enriching to discover our heroes, the people who 'did it right', who set examples of the best way to live and be creative. It's practical too, because we only have a limited amount of time and energy, so why waste it learning 'low art'. I think it's important to diffentialte personally, high art from low art and guilty pleasures. I suspect that there is (or can be) high art in almost anything: the Zen of drinking beer, for example, or fishing, or tennis, or golf, or yes, even game playing. But each of us has to decide where our loyalties lie. For me, jazz music, and bebop, is about as good as it gets. Listening to Charlie Parker is humbling and inspiring. He was one of a kind. I used to pity him as a junkie who died too young. Now, all I can hear is the beauty of his spirit in his music, his kindness, his supremem effort to bring something new to the world of music. He is a hero. I have to admit, though that for thirty years, I thought of bebop as a kind of noise, and I used to make fun of it, and parody it by playing a flurry of notes that didn't make much sense. I was wrong. Boy, was I wrong! Come to think of it, every form of 'high art' that I most admire and appreciate today, took a long time to grow into, and very little of what I liked as a kid counts as high art today. Except fishing, hiking, and wilderness camping. I'm not sure that I'd call them high art, but they take me to a place that is every bit as enriching and rewarding as exporsure to high art. So, whatever you call it, they're important. (Actually wilderness camping and High Art do the same thing: they take me to a place that is rare, unspoiled, and clean, hard to get to, and a source of many new and creative ideas. And it's just plain fun to climb a mountain). jl From mobarre at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 13:45:28 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Tue Dec 12 13:45:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> References: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> Message-ID: <3c808a150612121045k16e74aafma62ae6daad1560a5@mail.gmail.com> On 12/12/06, Hannu Savolainen wrote: > Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there > is no market for professional developers. > I know a few devs here who will be extremely happy to be called amateurs. Moreover, the company I work for would be very happy to have such amateurs as employees... __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From cesare at poeticstudios.com Tue Dec 12 15:07:04 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Tue Dec 12 14:08:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <457F0BE8.3040902@poeticstudios.com> Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Chris McCormick wrote: > >> "Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing >> by a music school?" -- John Cage > > Which is more musical, 4 minutes and 33 seconds silence or 4 minutes > and 33 seconds of any sound what-so-ever? > 4' 33" was intended as a performance piece, so the noise made by the audience emerged as music, probably in a way that automatically follows certain rules. So it is much more a generative technique than a provocation. That's why a performance of Cage 4' 33" is more musical (and for me it is art, too) than 4' 33" of any sound whatsoever. c. -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From njcross at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 12 14:27:40 2006 From: njcross at sbcglobal.net (njcross@sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue Dec 12 14:11:12 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] meterbridge lashd? Message-ID: <200612121127.40425.njcross@sbcglobal.net> Can't reach 'plugin.org.uk' to find a lashd copy of meterbridge. Is there a source file available? Also, anyone know if there's a lash patch for snd or snd-ls? Lash with glashctl is really saving me time. There's an Ardour lash patch but it doesn't seem to work for me. pace, Nev From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Tue Dec 12 14:30:37 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue Dec 12 14:31:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> Message-ID: <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> Mathias Friman wrote: > If there existed a one-mouseclick-install Linux audio solution that ran VST-synths, had a > latency of below 2 msec and with an abundance of documentation and user following, there > would be no discussion. I personally think that it is the amount of study-time and steep > learning curve that deters the people from adopting Linux. Most people are too lazy (or busy) to change once they've learned to do adequately what they need to do. They'll change if they must - e.g., their old computer died, they got a new computer with different software on it. But they're generally not going to change on their own, even if the software is free, better and easy to use. Look how many people still use Internet Explorer, even with other, better and more secure browsers a simple download away? Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for instance) use Mac. -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From hannu at opensound.com Tue Dec 12 15:16:04 2006 From: hannu at opensound.com (Hannu Savolainen) Date: Tue Dec 12 15:16:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> Message-ID: <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> Mathias Friman wrote: > Hannu Savolainen wrote: > >> About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux >> audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90% >> of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software >> developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use >> them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there >> is no market for professional developers. >> > > I don't think that the professional developers that code for Linux on their spare time agrees > with you on that subject. :) Or all the people employed by Novell, RedHat, Ubuntu etc. > If some professional software developers develop audio applications on their spare time that doesn't make them professional audio software developers. > Money is not the sole motivator, and it does not guarantee quality. There is no lack of good > programs for linux audio production, what it lacks is documentation and an overall picture. > Money is not a motivator. It just makes it possible to do full time work on given task. If somebody works 9to5 on some daytime job then how much time and energy he can allocate to writing some software on his spare time? Best regards, Hannu From atte.jensen at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 15:17:43 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Tue Dec 12 15:17:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457F0BE8.3040902@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> <457F0BE8.3040902@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457F0E67.2040301@gmail.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > 4' 33" was intended as a performance piece, so the noise made by the > audience emerged as music, probably in a way that automatically follows > certain rules. So it is much more a generative technique than a > provocation. I understand that. It's just not music (at least to me)... > That's why a performance of Cage 4' 33" is more musical (and for me it > is art, too) than 4' 33" of any sound whatsoever. Ok... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From fons at kokkinizita.net Tue Dec 12 15:37:27 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue Dec 12 15:34:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> Message-ID: <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 10:16:04PM +0200, Hannu Savolainen wrote: > If somebody works 9to5 on some daytime job then how much > time and energy he can allocate to writing some software on his spare time? 5to9 -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From ico at vt.edu Tue Dec 12 15:49:13 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Tue Dec 12 15:51:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? > The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for > instance) use Mac. Based upon your statements, I'd say your exposure to on-stage performances with computers has been rather limited. Best wishes, Ico From ka1iic at prexar.com Tue Dec 12 16:56:11 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Tue Dec 12 15:56:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: And don't we all love those small foot-print applications that require a heap load of other apps and libs to run. And the server that holds that last needed lib just doesn't come up for you? for weeks... Amateur... a person that does what he does for the advancement of his hobby without pay... I have yet to see any type of computer system used by any act or group... Oh wait a minute... I take that back... I did see an act that used a computer as a teleprompter... vince ka1iic On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, david wrote: > Mathias Friman wrote: > >> If there existed a one-mouseclick-install Linux audio solution that ran >> VST-synths, had a latency of below 2 msec and with an abundance of >> documentation and user following, there >> would be no discussion. I personally think that it is the amount of >> study-time and steep learning curve that deters the people from adopting >> Linux. > > Most people are too lazy (or busy) to change once they've learned to do > adequately what they need to do. They'll change if they must - e.g., their > old computer died, they got a new computer with different software on it. But > they're generally not going to change on their own, even if the software is > free, better and easy to use. Look how many people still use Internet > Explorer, even with other, better and more secure browsers a simple download > away? > > Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? The > only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for instance) > use Mac. > > -- > David > gnome@hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community > From cesare at poeticstudios.com Tue Dec 12 17:13:49 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Tue Dec 12 16:15:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457F0E67.2040301@gmail.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> <457F0BE8.3040902@poeticstudios.com> <457F0E67.2040301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <457F299D.5030009@poeticstudios.com> Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > >> 4' 33" was intended as a performance piece, so the noise made by the >> audience emerged as music, probably in a way that automatically >> follows certain rules. So it is much more a generative technique than >> a provocation. > > I understand that. It's just not music (at least to me)... In these discussions we have to consider how, when and why we listen to what we consider music. And how it was meant to be listened to. Obviously, if I have to decide what to put on my mp3 player for a trip I'd rather put Miles Davis 'Kind of blue' or, even better, my whole collection of the 70ies canterbury scene than John Cage. Listening to Cage to me is more like reading a book about zen philosophy. Nonetheless, I'm listening to a record, or better to a performance. Incidentally, Cage works are far more interesting as an artistic statement while most popular music act as a way to trigger certain emotions (and that's what most call music). The latter is somewhat instrumental. I listen to 'Kind of blue' when I want to be consoled, when I'm sad. When I'm programming I prefer 'Bitches brew'. :-) c. > >> That's why a performance of Cage 4' 33" is more musical (and for me >> it is art, too) than 4' 33" of any sound whatsoever. > > Ok... > -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From cesare at poeticstudios.com Tue Dec 12 17:23:28 2006 From: cesare at poeticstudios.com (Cesare Marilungo) Date: Tue Dec 12 16:25:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <457F299D.5030009@poeticstudios.com> References: <20061210132052.GP26225@fliwatut.scifi> <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <20061210151934.GA1962@mccormick.cx> <457C39DA.5030101@woh.rr.com> <87vekjuq5w.fsf@esben-stien.name> <457D368E.50803@woh.rr.com> <20061212015026.GC17140@mccormick.cx> <457E8CEA.5010303@gmail.com> <457F0BE8.3040902@poeticstudios.com> <457F0E67.2040301@gmail.com> <457F299D.5030009@poeticstudios.com> Message-ID: <457F2BE0.10009@poeticstudios.com> Cesare Marilungo wrote: > Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: >> Cesare Marilungo wrote: >> >>> 4' 33" was intended as a performance piece, so the noise made by the >>> audience emerged as music, probably in a way that automatically >>> follows certain rules. So it is much more a generative technique >>> than a provocation. >> >> I understand that. It's just not music (at least to me)... > In these discussions we have to consider how, when and why we listen > to what we consider music. And how it was meant to be listened to. > Obviously, if I have to decide what to put on my mp3 player for a trip > I'd rather put Miles Davis 'Kind of blue' or, even better, my whole > collection of the 70ies canterbury scene than John Cage. I'd put this too on the mp3 player, since I'm learning Ruby: http://odeo.com/show/120299/view > > Listening to Cage to me is more like reading a book about zen > philosophy. Nonetheless, I'm listening to a record, or better to a > performance. > > Incidentally, Cage works are far more interesting as an artistic > statement while most popular music act as a way to trigger certain > emotions (and that's what most call music). The latter is somewhat > instrumental. I listen to 'Kind of blue' when I want to be consoled, > when I'm sad. When I'm programming I prefer 'Bitches brew'. :-) > > c. >> >>> That's why a performance of Cage 4' 33" is more musical (and for me >>> it is art, too) than 4' 33" of any sound whatsoever. >> >> Ok... >> > > -- http://www.cesaremarilungo.com From glauberalex at uol.com.br Tue Dec 12 01:07:48 2006 From: glauberalex at uol.com.br (glauber alex dias prado) Date: Tue Dec 12 17:46:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <1165903668.7524.2.camel@gredesk> Em Seg, 2006-12-11 ?s 22:09 -0500, Rob escreveu: > On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote: > > That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to > > register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, > > because the users removes the spam. > > > > You install a wiki, then leave it be. > > That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like > Wikipedia. On any other wiki, what the spammers count on for > their business model is that people are not looking at the > recent changes page 20 times a day to delete Chinese search > engine bait. On a public site with a moderate pagerank and a > few hundred users making updates a few dozen times a day, like > the one I ran for Gambas documentation (it's still there, and > still called a wiki, but it's really a CMS with more structure > than a wiki) once they found it, it was totally out of hand. > > Even with registration, if you're running any common kind of wiki > software, like Mediawiki or TWiki, there are thousands of bots > out there that will auto-register and post spam. You need a > CAPTCHA or email verification besides the registration. > > And even if your site is as active as Wikipedia, that means the > site is big enough that it's going to need constant maintenance > anyway for non-content-related reasons. > > The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be tended > constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set > it and forget it" situation. > > Rob of course you have to add content, but the purpose of a wiki is to not need a registration, at least this is the way i see a wiki, you dont care for spammers, if it is getting really abused you will have to find a way to block off course, or even let it be, but i see wikis and wikis, and having to registrate to edit it is pointless imo. From burkhard at sportident.de Tue Dec 12 18:31:44 2006 From: burkhard at sportident.de (Burkhard Ritter) Date: Tue Dec 12 18:32:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] PAM rlimits patched at seite9.de down In-Reply-To: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> Message-ID: <20061212233144.GA24336@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 12:16:55PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > PAM with patches for rlimits packaged for Debian used to be available > [1]here. But the site's been down for weeks. Do this mean that rlimits > aware PAM has reached Etch? If they haven't, are patched packages > available anywhere else? > > 1. http://seite9.de/~burkhard/pam_debian_rlimits/ > > Cordially, Ismael As somebody else already pointed out, there is no need to use this package any longer, as Debian now includes a package with the patch already applied. I also updated the wiki where I originially posted the above url (alsa.opensrc.org), to reflect this. By the way, thank you for making me aware that the site was not working properly, it's fixed now. Burkhard From lau at kudla.org Tue Dec 12 18:56:22 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Tue Dec 12 19:00:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <20061212113326.GF12168@fliwatut.scifi> References: <200612112239.18699.lau@kudla.org> <20061212113326.GF12168@fliwatut.scifi> Message-ID: <200612121856.24338.lau@kudla.org> On Tuesday 12 December 2006 06:33, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Rob hat gesagt: // Rob wrote: > > No doubt sooner or later, to prove me wrong, there'll be a > > performance artist whose art consists of sitting on a sofa > > playing Doom 6 or whatever. > > Rather sooner that later, actually it was in 2003: > http://selectparks.net/archive/q3apd.htm Well, that's generating sound from Quake, and I don't see that as really being that different than the "dot matrix printer symphony" and various other kinds of "found music". I'm talking about a performance artist whose art actually consists entirely of sitting on a sofa playing GTA: Dead Horse Town or whatever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art Rob From lau at kudla.org Tue Dec 12 19:04:26 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Tue Dec 12 19:05:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <3654.192.168.0.13.1165948569.squirrel@johnlyon.tzo.com> References: <20061212121458.GA5887@linux-1.site> <3654.192.168.0.13.1165948569.squirrel@johnlyon.tzo.com> Message-ID: <200612121904.26516.lau@kudla.org> On Tuesday 12 December 2006 13:36, John Lyon wrote: > By the way, the highest art often includes violence, even > extreme violence; check out Shakespeare's "MacBeth" or > "Hamlet" or the Illiad, or Dante's "Inferno". Man, there's > hardly anyone stnding by the end. Yet, our best and > brightest affirm, generation after generation, that these are > examples of High Art. I'm about 95% sure that Shakespeare's material was in no way "high art" when it was created. If bebop isn't considered high art yet, I'm sure it will be soon, but it certainly wasn't considered such when it was born. I personally don't differentiate between "high art" and "low art" for reasons like that. Rob From lau at kudla.org Tue Dec 12 19:22:42 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Tue Dec 12 19:26:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <200612121922.42830.lau@kudla.org> On Tuesday 12 December 2006 14:30, david wrote: > Mathias Friman wrote: > > If there existed a one-mouseclick-install Linux audio > > solution that ran VST-synths, had a latency of below 2 msec > > and with an abundance of documentation and user following, > > there would be no discussion. I personally think that it is > > the amount of study-time and steep learning curve that > > deters the people from adopting Linux. > > Most people are too lazy (or busy) to change once they've > learned to do adequately what they need to do. They'll change > if they must - e.g., their old computer died, they got a new > computer with different software on it. But they're generally > not going to change on their own, even if the software is > free, better and easy to use. Look how many people still use > Internet Explorer, even with other, better and more secure > browsers a simple download away? Such a package would be for people who DO try new things. It would probably work best as a bootable CD. If I had the time, I'd take that as a challenge... take Agnula or Demudi or whatever it's called nowadays, try to get a bunch of free-beer-ware VSTs working out of the box, set up a desktop that automatically has everything running and an intelligently laid out set of well-described applications, and try to make a bootable CD of it. I'd make it just for myself and then post it for everyone else, because trying to get everything working under Mandrake and then Mandriva and now Ubuntu, without breaking my other hardware, has proven to require more time and expertise than I apparently have. And I've been using Unix for 20 years, Linux for 12. Maybe someone will take up the mantle and do that.... maybe the Studio64 guys are already planning to do something like this. > Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in > performance? The only ones I've been close enough to see on > stage (Al Dimeola, for instance) use Mac. Music doesn't have to be about performance. If I never perform for an audience in my entire life, I'll be fine with that, but I'd like to get more compositions recorded and maybe even finish a project. I think with the rise of electronic music and to a lesser extent hip-hop, the parts of music creation that once took place in a studio -- composition, arrangement, recording, mixing -- are becoming the entirety of the process for a lot of artists. That said, the artists who use machines on stage probably use the Mac because either (a) it's what their tech guy taught them to use, (b) it was easy enough for them to pick up on their own, or (c) they tried other things and had bad experiences with them. Just as 4-track recorders enabled an entire generation of musicians to make their own demo tapes (or in some cases, entire finished works,) Linux could very well make it possible for the next generation to use computers for music without spending the money on a Mac. I guess it's more likely they'll just pirate Acid or Protools or whatever, because they heard of someone famous using them or saw someone else using them, but getting something totally turnkey would go a long way towards breaking that cycle. Maybe thinking further outside the box and creating an interface that makes sense not to existing Windows or Mac users, but people who have never used computers and don't really like them, would give us an edge in that department. The OLPC project is doing some interesting things with user interface with users like that in mind, though I suppose the needs of musicians are probably somewhat different than the needs of third-world kids. Rob From loki.davison at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 19:28:28 2006 From: loki.davison at gmail.com (Loki Davison) Date: Tue Dec 12 19:28:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: On 12/13/06, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? > > The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for > > instance) use Mac. > > Based upon your statements, I'd say your exposure to on-stage performances > with computers has been rather limited. > > Best wishes, > > Ico Maybe it's very style specific. In the prog/breaks/house style of electronic dance stuff i've seen about 50 people perform with a computer and so far about 49 are mac. I have however seen 1 Linux machine, in the early days of Final Scratch by stanton, when it was only for linux. This isn't counting Linux conf or me ;) I've seen performances in other styles using Windoze machines, and it's been a while since i've seen many computer performances. Loki From brunogola at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 20:00:28 2006 From: brunogola at gmail.com (Bruno Gola) Date: Tue Dec 12 20:00:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Axiom 25 keyboard In-Reply-To: <20061119004422.GC7194@slinkp.com> References: <20060908180318.30189aa5@mistral.stie> <20061119004422.GC7194@slinkp.com> Message-ID: Hi all, i got a M-Audio Axiom 25 too. Do you have any success configuring the knobs and buttons? Is it working nice with Linux ? What distro do you use? I will try to play with it tomorrow :) regards, On 11/19/06, Paul Winkler wrote: > Hey Lanas, > > How's the Axiom working out for you? Have you got all the knobs > and buttons working? > > I'm thinking of replacing my Oxygen 8 with an Axiom 61, now that > I'm taking piano lessons and suddenly realize I can't even play > the Bach Minuet on a two-octave keyboard :) > > -PW > > > On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 06:03:18PM -0400, lanas wrote: > > ... I plugged the USB cable of the thing, started Jack, et voil??, > > it simply appeared and was ready to be connected to Zyn. > ... > > I'd like to use the rotary knobs for interesting things such as > > changing some of the so many parameters of the Zyn synth. Is > > this possible ? Is it possible with another synth ? > ... > > And, is it possible to use the play/stop/backward/forward buttons with > > Ardour or MuSE ? > > -- > > Paul Winkler > http://www.slinkp.com > -- Bruno Fialho Marques Gola http://www.brunogola.com.br Cel: (11) 9294-5883 From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Tue Dec 12 20:31:29 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Tue Dec 12 20:30:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612121904.26516.lau@kudla.org> References: <20061212121458.GA5887@linux-1.site> <3654.192.168.0.13.1165948569.squirrel@johnlyon.tzo.com> <200612121904.26516.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <457F57F1.1060109@woh.rr.com> Rob wrote: >I'm about 95% sure that Shakespeare's material was in no >way "high art" when it was created. > I think it's in Twelfth Night when one of the players remarks re: the groundlings (i.e. the cheap seats) : "Give them a jig or a tale of bawdry, else they sleep." He knew his audience. :) Best, dp From daneasley at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 21:12:57 2006 From: daneasley at gmail.com (Dan Easley) Date: Tue Dec 12 21:13:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> Message-ID: On 12/12/06, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 10:16:04PM +0200, Hannu Savolainen wrote: > > > If somebody works 9to5 on some daytime job then how much > > time and energy he can allocate to writing some software on his spare time? > > 5to9 > Ah, that's classic. Well done. Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur thing is. I'm an amateur musician, and, while I can't say for sure that I'd be able to make music professionally, I suspect I could, and I think I'm glad I'm an amateur. I'm not sure I'd want to restrict my idiom to commercially viable rhythms and chord progressions. (It's constant eighth notes of I-V-IV, right? Or was that the nineties?) Wasn't Charles Ives an insurance salesman? I suspect the 'amateur' (that is, not making a living from it) nature of many linux audio composers/coders is in fact a positive point. Certainly features and abilities arise out of need as needed, rather than being held back until one can make money from them (then make additional monies on the .x releases.) I think it's a pointless distinction. If I'm inadvertently fanning the flames, please dump a bucket of water on my head. Yours in atonal quintuplets, the amateur rhetorician. -- daneasley@gmail.com dan@towndowner.com dan@burntpossum.com http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com From brad at sonaural.com Tue Dec 12 21:54:54 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Tue Dec 12 21:55:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <457F6B7E.6080804@sonaural.com> Dan Easley wrote: > On 12/12/06, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 10:16:04PM +0200, Hannu Savolainen wrote: >> >> > If somebody works 9to5 on some daytime job then how much >> > time and energy he can allocate to writing some software on his >> spare time? >> >> 5to9 >> > > Ah, that's classic. Well done. > > Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur thing > is. > > I'm an amateur musician, and, while I can't say for sure that I'd be > able to make music professionally, I suspect I could, and I think I'm > glad I'm an amateur. I'm not sure I'd want to restrict my idiom to > commercially viable rhythms and chord progressions. (It's constant > eighth notes of I-V-IV, right? Or was that the nineties?) > > Wasn't Charles Ives an insurance salesman? Yes, albeit only because of the lack of focus of new music in New England and the rest of the country. He did study music (at Yale), was an accomplished pianist and organist, and successful in insurance. I wouldn't call him an amateur or a professional. I'd call him a composer and pianist. And, is certainly one of my heroes. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From ico at vt.edu Tue Dec 12 22:42:49 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Tue Dec 12 22:43:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F6B7E.6080804@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <001c01c71e68$c3044ee0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > >> 5to9 > >> > > > > Ah, that's classic. Well done. > > > > Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur thing > > is. > > > > I'm an amateur musician, and, while I can't say for sure that I'd be > > able to make music professionally, I suspect I could, and I think I'm > > glad I'm an amateur. I'm not sure I'd want to restrict my idiom to > > commercially viable rhythms and chord progressions. (It's constant > > eighth notes of I-V-IV, right? Or was that the nineties?) > > > > Wasn't Charles Ives an insurance salesman? > Yes, albeit only because of the lack of focus of new music in New > England and the rest of the country. > He did study music (at Yale), was an accomplished pianist and organist, > and successful in insurance. > I wouldn't call him an amateur or a professional. I'd call him a > composer and pianist. And, is certainly one of my heroes. How about "a fringe artist with a sane business model and a good sense for reality?" This not only enabled him to compose music he liked, but also allowed him to hire an entire ensemble to perform his works, even though his art at the time was rather hard to digest by the mainstream consumers and "professional" (there, I used the dreaded word ;-) performers alike. P.S. Dan, very much enjoyed your rhetoric ;-) Best wishes, Ico From fons at kokkinizita.net Tue Dec 12 23:52:06 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue Dec 12 23:49:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <20061213045206.GA5861@linux-1.site> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:12:57PM -0500, Dan Easley wrote: > Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur thing is. It is. It's also rather silly of Hannu to call his potential customers amateurs. Not very professional and not up to the quality of his technical argumentation, which is IMHO solid. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Dec 13 00:09:27 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed Dec 13 00:09:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <457F8B07.3040401@hawaii.rr.com> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >> Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? >> The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for >> instance) use Mac. > > Based upon your statements, I'd say your exposure to on-stage performances > with computers has been rather limited. I've been "close enough" to see what computers are being used only a few times. Outside of that, I have no idea. -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From ka1iic at prexar.com Tue Dec 12 20:04:54 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Wed Dec 13 00:58:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457F8B07.3040401@hawaii.rr.com> References: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457F8B07.3040401@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <200612130105.02083.ka1iic@prexar.com> Well from what I've seen computers do the lighting, visual special effects, pyro etc etc Most of the group people have two or three foot tall 19 inch wide relay racks for their special effects equipment... but are run into a common analog mixing board to the amplifiers... I have had a number of close ups of a number of different setups too... vince ka1iic On Wednesday 13 December 2006 05:09, david wrote: > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > >> Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? > >> The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for > >> instance) use Mac. > > > > Based upon your statements, I'd say your exposure to on-stage > > performances with computers has been rather limited. > > I've been "close enough" to see what computers are being used only a few > times. Outside of that, I have no idea. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Dec 13 01:32:48 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed Dec 13 01:33:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612130105.02083.ka1iic@prexar.com> References: <006401c71e2e$fbc79b40$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <457F8B07.3040401@hawaii.rr.com> <200612130105.02083.ka1iic@prexar.com> Message-ID: <457F9E90.9050604@hawaii.rr.com> I was just thinking in terms of music generation or modification - not controlling the rest of the stuff in the show. Vince Werber wrote: > Well from what I've seen computers do the lighting, visual special effects, > pyro etc etc Most of the group people have two or three foot tall 19 inch > wide relay racks for their special effects equipment... but are run into a > common analog mixing board to the amplifiers... > > I have had a number of close ups of a number of different setups too... > > vince > ka1iic > > On Wednesday 13 December 2006 05:09, david wrote: >> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >>>> Also, how many professional musicians use PC hardware in performance? >>>> The only ones I've been close enough to see on stage (Al Dimeola, for >>>> instance) use Mac. >>> Based upon your statements, I'd say your exposure to on-stage >>> performances with computers has been rather limited. >> I've been "close enough" to see what computers are being used only a few >> times. Outside of that, I have no idea. > -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From hannu at opensound.com Wed Dec 13 05:44:54 2006 From: hannu at opensound.com (Hannu Savolainen) Date: Wed Dec 13 05:45:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061213045206.GA5861@linux-1.site> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> <20061213045206.GA5861@linux-1.site> Message-ID: <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:12:57PM -0500, Dan Easley wrote: > > >> Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur thing is. >> > > It is. It's also rather silly of Hannu to call his potential > customers amateurs. Not very professional and not up to the > quality of his technical argumentation, which is IMHO solid. > Please don't mix things guys. Professional is a person who makes something for living. Amateur (or hobbyist) is somebody who makes the same thing just for fun. This has nothing to do with skills or experience. Best regards, Hannu From mike.taht at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 17:32:58 2006 From: mike.taht at gmail.com (Mike Taht) Date: Wed Dec 13 06:32:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Adjusting a midi track's tempo? Message-ID: <158277e20612121432t391b4f08l26a82d84e01f6dc6@mail.gmail.com> I have a bunch of stuff I just recorded that has potential. Problem was that I wasn't paying attention to the tempo set in rosegarden while I was recording it (and it was set at a variety of different tempos, anyway). Is there a way (using some linux tool) to select two obvious bar boundries in a midi file, and have it recalculate the actual tempo of the file from that? Been having a blast bloggin on getting ardour2, linuxsampler, rosegarden and hydrogen to play together. Discovered that all that stuff ran over X client/server just fine, and that freed up enough memory to actually get some serious production done. -- Mike Taht PostCards From the Bleeding Edge http://the-edge.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061212/02098070/attachment.html From robin at gareus.org Wed Dec 13 06:55:44 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Wed Dec 13 06:56:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> <20061213045206.GA5861@linux-1.site> <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> Message-ID: <457FE9FD.1000703@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hannu Savolainen wrote: > Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:12:57PM -0500, Dan Easley wrote: >> >> >>> Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur >>> thing is. >>> >> >> It is. It's also rather silly of Hannu to call his potential >> customers amateurs. Not very professional and not up to the >> quality of his technical argumentation, which is IMHO solid. >> > Please don't mix things guys. Professional is a person who makes > something for living. Amateur (or hobbyist) is somebody who makes the > same thing just for fun. This has nothing to do with skills or experience. > amateur (Lat. amator, amatorem) - s.o. who *loves* linux-audio ;-) #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFf+n9eVUk8U+VK0IRApAuAJ4lC+m6WNto8WsX0Q8TiVns165cDACfbAU8 hy3qYd6AGy8zk5jU54x4/cM= =bCXF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jayv at synth.net Wed Dec 13 07:09:05 2006 From: jayv at synth.net (Jay Vaughan) Date: Wed Dec 13 07:11:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Any thoughts? >-TimH I think the timing and market are ripe for someone to come along with a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works", with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc. In other words, if someone would set themselves up as a hardware vendor exclusively catering to audio production work, and produced completed systems that have everything on-board, working the way it should work, with no fuss for the end user, there'd be more people willing to take a look at using Linux for audio-related work. As it stands right now, you have to be quite the hacker to get a Linux-based studio up and running, and its not really fun. Continually trying to keep up with the PC/Mac softsynth world is not really pushing things out onto the edge of the tip, where Linux traditionally thrives .. Personally, as a musician and as a long-term, dedicated, Linux user, I'd like to see a more 'turnkey hardware' approach to Linux audio. Imagine if you could (for example), put a simple SD card in something like the GP2X and get yourself a fully-functional hardware sampler/sequencer environment with zero setup fuss .. this, to me, is the way forward for Linux audio, and is one way to attract a lot more people to the Linux-audio ideal.. -- ; Jay Vaughan From linuxuadio at rytmisk.net Wed Dec 13 07:27:09 2006 From: linuxuadio at rytmisk.net (Ketil Thorgersen) Date: Wed Dec 13 07:27:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] kororaa report In-Reply-To: <45626F8C.6020804@rytmisk.net> References: <39563.192.168.0.2.1163962727.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net> <45626F8C.6020804@rytmisk.net> Message-ID: <457FF19D.7040904@rytmisk.net> Hi again list... On the (old) topic of gentoo, I ust saw another install option - sabayonlinux (http://www.sabayonlinux.org) which seems to actually be quite usable and updated. I'll try it and see if it can easily be used with the pro audio overlay. BEst regards Ketil From alewis at systemsfusion.com Wed Dec 13 07:35:46 2006 From: alewis at systemsfusion.com (Andrew Lewis) Date: Wed Dec 13 07:36:12 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] kororaa report In-Reply-To: <457FF19D.7040904@rytmisk.net> References: <39563.192.168.0.2.1163962727.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net> <45626F8C.6020804@rytmisk.net> <457FF19D.7040904@rytmisk.net> Message-ID: <200612131435.46758.alewis@systemsfusion.com> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 14:27, Ketil Thorgersen wrote: > On the (old) topic of gentoo, I ust saw another install option - > sabayonlinux (http://www.sabayonlinux.org) which seems to actually be > quite usable and updated. I'll try it and see if it can easily be used > with the pro audio overlay. It's just a normal Gentoo install with an overlay for their additional stuff. I'm running it on the machine I'm using to post this and I use the pro-audio overlay. TBH I wasn't overwhelmed by it, hopefully the new version is better. :) Ended up having to recompile kmail to get IMAP to work, it didn't set up my overlays properly, installed a bunch of bloatware for me, etc. I removed the Sabayon and XGL overlays from my system and am happily running Gentoo now. :) Despite this experience, I still prefer it to the GRP, so might look at it in future as a means to get running quickly with Gentoo. :) Best, -AL. From a at gaydenko.com Wed Dec 13 08:17:36 2006 From: a at gaydenko.com (Andrew Gaydenko) Date: Wed Dec 13 08:22:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 src Message-ID: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> There was an announce about new CLAM version (http://clam.iua.upf.edu/). The project is GPL-ed, but I have not found new sources. This ref http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/src/ has old version(s) only. Have I missed something? From gregwilder at gregwilder.com Wed Dec 13 10:16:03 2006 From: gregwilder at gregwilder.com (Greg Wilder) Date: Wed Dec 13 10:17:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200612131016.03112.gregwilder@gregwilder.com> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:09 am, Jay Vaughan wrote: > I think the timing and market are ripe for someone to come along with > a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works", > with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc. Lionstracs Mediastation: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/ From brad at sonaural.com Wed Dec 13 10:39:13 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Wed Dec 13 10:40:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F0E04.4000005@opensound.com> <20061212203727.GD5887@linux-1.site> <20061213045206.GA5861@linux-1.site> <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> Message-ID: <45801EA1.6080704@sonaural.com> Hannu Savolainen wrote: > Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:12:57PM -0500, Dan Easley wrote: >> >> >>> Gracious, what a silly argument this professional-versus-amateur >>> thing is. >>> >> >> It is. It's also rather silly of Hannu to call his potential >> customers amateurs. Not very professional and not up to the >> quality of his technical argumentation, which is IMHO solid. >> > Please don't mix things guys. Professional is a person who makes > something for living. Amateur (or hobbyist) is somebody who makes the > same thing just for fun. or for the love of it. > This has nothing to do with skills or experience. good point -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From hardbop200 at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 10:40:13 2006 From: hardbop200 at gmail.com (Josh Lawrence) Date: Wed Dec 13 10:40:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612131016.03112.gregwilder@gregwilder.com> References: <200612131016.03112.gregwilder@gregwilder.com> Message-ID: On 12/13/06, Greg Wilder wrote: > On Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:09 am, Jay Vaughan wrote: > > I think the timing and market are ripe for someone to come along with > > a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works", > > with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc. > > Lionstracs Mediastation: > http://www.lionstracs.com/store/ Muse Receptor: http://www.museresearch.com/ -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com From pcoccoli at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 11:45:18 2006 From: pcoccoli at gmail.com (Paul Coccoli) Date: Wed Dec 13 11:56:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 src In-Reply-To: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> References: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> Message-ID: <8d27a0610612130845lf5e0ca1tdc9a29ca0f58cd67@mail.gmail.com> On 12/13/06, Andrew Gaydenko wrote: > There was an announce about new CLAM version (http://clam.iua.upf.edu/). > The project is GPL-ed, but I have not found new sources. This ref > > http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/src/ > > has old version(s) only. > > Have I missed something? > Have you asked the authors? From ico at vt.edu Wed Dec 13 11:56:36 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Wed Dec 13 12:08:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457FD9A6.5010809@opensound.com> Message-ID: <004901c71ed7$a6db2490$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Please don't mix things guys. Professional is a person who makes > something for living. Amateur (or hobbyist) is somebody who makes the > same thing just for fun. This has nothing to do with skills or experience. Either way, your generalization is/was wrong, as a number of people on this list do this for a living. Ico From a at gaydenko.com Wed Dec 13 12:22:17 2006 From: a at gaydenko.com (Andrew Gaydenko) Date: Wed Dec 13 12:26:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 src In-Reply-To: <8d27a0610612130845lf5e0ca1tdc9a29ca0f58cd67@mail.gmail.com> References: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> <8d27a0610612130845lf5e0ca1tdc9a29ca0f58cd67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200612132022.17563@goldspace.net> Already updated: http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/src/ ======= On Wednesday 13 December 2006 19:45, Paul Coccoli wrote: ======= Have you asked the authors? From _ at whats-your.name Wed Dec 13 13:34:04 2006 From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen) Date: Wed Dec 13 13:34:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 src In-Reply-To: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> References: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> Message-ID: <20061213183404.GA1740@replic.net> On Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:17:36PM +0300, Andrew Gaydenko wrote: > There was an announce about new CLAM version (http://clam.iua.upf.edu/). > The project is GPL-ed, but I have not found new sources. This ref > > http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/src/ > > has old version(s) only. > > Have I missed something? i was looking as well. guess they just figure most people want debian/fedora packages > From a at gaydenko.com Wed Dec 13 13:40:46 2006 From: a at gaydenko.com (Andrew Gaydenko) Date: Wed Dec 13 13:39:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] CLAM 0.95 src In-Reply-To: <20061213183404.GA1740@replic.net> References: <200612131617.36649@goldspace.net> <20061213183404.GA1740@replic.net> Message-ID: <200612132140.46325@goldspace.net> Already updated. Hit "refresh" :-) ======= On Wednesday 13 December 2006 21:34, carmen wrote: ======= On Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:17:36PM +0300, Andrew Gaydenko wrote: > There was an announce about new CLAM version (http://clam.iua.upf.edu/). > The project is GPL-ed, but I have not found new sources. This ref > > http://clam.iua.upf.edu/download/src/ > > has old version(s) only. > > Have I missed something? i was looking as well. guess they just figure most people want debian/fedora packages > From lau at kudla.org Wed Dec 13 15:39:01 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Wed Dec 13 15:44:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 07:09, Jay Vaughan wrote: > more 'turnkey hardware' approach to Linux audio. Imagine if > you could (for example), put a simple SD card in something > like the GP2X and get yourself a fully-functional hardware > sampler/sequencer environment with zero setup fuss .. this, to > me, is the way forward for Linux audio, and is one way to > attract a lot more people to the Linux-audio ideal.. The GP2X is way more powerful than the PCs I was using 10 years ago when I was most productive (using my Gravis soundcard and Digital Orchestrator Pro under Windows, but also using early versions of Timidity to render my MIDI files with no analog generation, and Cool Edit for some pretty rudimentary mixing and editing.) So this sort of thing should be possible. My only question would be what the options for audio input are on the GP2X as I'm not aware of it being a Firewire or USB host. Sorry if you didn't mean the GP2X specifically, but I think its inexpensive nature and relative availability make it almost ideal for this sort of project. The Nintendo DS would be an even better choice if it just had a little more oomph, since it runs Linux too, is still cheaper and more widely available, and has the touch screen for better input options. But since my main computer back then was a P100 with 16MB of RAM, even the DS isn't impossible to imagine using for a device like this. Rob From petespin at att.net Wed Dec 13 16:06:30 2006 From: petespin at att.net (Peter Finnegan) Date: Wed Dec 13 16:06:41 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Focusrite Saffire LE vs. Presonus Firebox In-Reply-To: <457EA552.8030302@monom.org> References: <457EA552.8030302@monom.org> Message-ID: <1166043990.20537.14.camel@gracie> I use a presonus firebox with good results under the released freebob 1.0. Jack allows me to do what I need to with the device (e.g. set samplerate, latency, etc). I recently recorded a high school Christmas concert (the school that I teach at) last friday with good results. My signal chain: 1pr Rode NT4's -->aphex107 preamp -->firebox line in's. I had no xruns or ardour dropping jack for the whole 1.5 hour concert. I would imagine the firepod to have similar results to the firebox. PF On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 13:49 +0100, Daniel Wagner wrote: > > I'm looking to buy some firewire sound card, and I have got a very good price on a > > Focusrite Saffire LE, but it says on the Freebob website about the Saffire: > > "FireWire Interface with DSP - DSP and mixer not supported by FreeBob". What does > > this mean practically? > > IRC, the Saffire has configurable mixer build in and a DSP which freebob > has no control software (gui etc) for it. If the basic setup (after > powering the device up) is ok for you, the thing should work with > freebob. But you can't change anything at this point. > > > > Which are the pros and cons compared to the Presonus Firebox which I can obtain for > > a marginally higher price? Is the Focusrite Saffire LE even fully workable under Linux? > > I don't think so (see above) > > > If "mixer" means the included control software for Windows, what possibilities for > > controlling the device exists? > > yes > > > And is the support for the Firebox sufficient, or should I go for something completely > > different in the same or even lower pricerange? > > > > I'm thinking of even buying a Presonus Firepod if I can get it at a good price, is this > > something that is 100% supported, or are there still things that need to be fixed? > > Freebob works fairly good but nothing is 100%. There are a few people > around which use those devices. Maybe some of them can drop a line if it > works for them. > > cheers, > daniel > From brad at sonaural.com Wed Dec 13 17:11:11 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Wed Dec 13 17:11:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <200612121642.07211.d_baron@012.net.il> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> <200612121642.07211.d_baron@012.net.il> Message-ID: <45807A7F.70404@sonaural.com> David Baron wrote: > On Monday 11 December 2006 21:47, linux-audio-user-request@music.columbia.edu > wrote: >>> Smalltalk 80 is, well, 26 years old. Before Unicode so is incompatable >>> with mutlingual keyboard choices. No Hebrew for my daughter, not in UI >>> and cannot type it in to text objects either. Truetype fonts (newer than >>> smalltalk80) are beatutiful but they are also Unicode based nowadays. >> I'm not a language expert, to say the least. I don't know about Hebrew >> usage in Squeak. But, Unicode and multilingual support is supported (I >> think from version 3.7 on, don't know.) If it isn't translated to Hebrew >> yet, why not help us by doing so! I believe squeak in German, French, >> Spanish and Japanese are available. >> >> Today's True type fonts are also supported. > > Bring up a squeak text widget and try to type in Hebrew. I go nothing in. > Hebrew support is more than Unicode--Hebrew and Arabic are right-to-left > languages. German, French, etc, do not require unicode to work. The Japanese > will argue the point. > > If I knew enough computereze in Hebrew, I would love to do the translation. > However, I cannot read Hebrew computer stuff so well myself. My daughter > (remember, we are talking about stuff for kids) does not read English > computer stuff so well. Her KDE and locale is Hebrew. Mine is English. > Passing this along from the squeakland.org mailing list: =================== Hi, I have developped V-toys a visual programming language built with E-TOYS and compatible with them. V-toys is using tiles with icones instead of text. So it is international and understandable in any language and project can be shared esily. I have translatede the car project which is the v-toys version of the car piloted by the joystick http://ofset.org:8000/super/213 You'll find more documentation here http://community.ofset.org/wiki/V-toys Sorry, the documentation is in french but there are lot of pictures and many projects that you can download and try.Be carefull when you save a project, ever stay down on the publish button to get the menu and choose publish on a different server. If you just hit Publish, the project will be saved back on the server. In this case, immediately hit atlt/dot or apple/dot to stop the process. From lau at kudla.org Wed Dec 13 17:35:00 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Wed Dec 13 17:35:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <45807A7F.70404@sonaural.com> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> <200612121642.07211.d_baron@012.net.il> <45807A7F.70404@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <200612131735.00283.lau@kudla.org> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 17:11, Brad Fuller wrote: > > Bring up a squeak text widget and try to type in Hebrew. I > > go nothing in. Hebrew support is more than Unicode--Hebrew > > and Arabic are right-to-left languages. German, French, etc, > > do not require unicode to work. The Japanese will argue the > > point. > Passing this along from the squeakland.org mailing list: > I have developped V-toys a visual programming language built > with E-TOYS and compatible with them. > V-toys is using tiles with icones instead of text. Woohoo, now my pet orangutan* can use Squeak! But probably still not useful for his Hebrew-speaking daughter, or anyone else who needs Unicode. Rob *Hypothetical. From nomoa at wanadoo.fr Wed Dec 13 18:08:38 2006 From: nomoa at wanadoo.fr (David Causse) Date: Wed Dec 13 18:08:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: PAM rlimits patched at seite9.de down In-Reply-To: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> Message-ID: <20061213230838.GA24759@localdomain> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 12:16:55PM +0100, Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > PAM with patches for rlimits packaged for Debian used to be available > [1]here. But the site's been down for weeks. Do this mean that rlimits > aware PAM has reached Etch? If they haven't, are patched packages > available anywhere else? > > 1. http://seite9.de/~burkhard/pam_debian_rlimits/ The current pam modules (debian testing at least) (0.79-4) works fine for rlimits but be aware if you used the package you mentionned, I noticed a difference in the syntax between this 2 packages. "rt_priority" was in use by the package provided by : http://seite9.de/~burkhard/pam_debian_rlimits/ but the package provided by debian use "rtprio" keyword. I you update your debian box sometimes your pam packages must have been updated automaticaly, now you must check that your /etc/security/limits.conf use the correct syntax If you did not overwrite this config file during apt-get update. Regards, David. From brad at sonaural.com Wed Dec 13 18:11:21 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Wed Dec 13 18:12:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Squeak (was Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <200612131735.00283.lau@kudla.org> References: <20061211194729.2154B4C0D05B@music.columbia.edu> <200612121642.07211.d_baron@012.net.il> <45807A7F.70404@sonaural.com> <200612131735.00283.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <45808899.4000804@sonaural.com> Rob wrote: > On Wednesday 13 December 2006 17:11, Brad Fuller wrote: >>> Bring up a squeak text widget and try to type in Hebrew. I >>> go nothing in. Hebrew support is more than Unicode--Hebrew >>> and Arabic are right-to-left languages. German, French, etc, >>> do not require unicode to work. The Japanese will argue the >>> point. >> Passing this along from the squeakland.org mailing list: >> I have developped V-toys a visual programming language built >> with E-TOYS and compatible with them. >> V-toys is using tiles with icones instead of text. > > Woohoo, now my pet orangutan* can use Squeak! > > But probably still not useful for his Hebrew-speaking daughter, > or anyone else who needs Unicode. Just to be clear, and I'll lay this to rest, Unicode is supported in Squeak. What is not available today is a Hebrew translation of Squeak. Again, I'm not an expert in multilingual or unicode standards/usage. I passed this along simply because the author uses visual icons and not text in his version of etoys. It might be helpful for his daughter. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From carotinobg at yahoo.it Wed Dec 13 18:21:09 2006 From: carotinobg at yahoo.it (Carotinho) Date: Wed Dec 13 18:21:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Guitar Effects In-Reply-To: <20061213230838.GA24759@localdomain> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> <20061213230838.GA24759@localdomain> Message-ID: <200612140021.09598.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Hi! I'm not a guitarist but I've a friend who is, and I'd like to put effects like distortion or whatever to recorded tracks and also to live sessions. I know some of you already do this, so may someone kindly explain briefly which ladspas to use to obtain distortion and so on?:) Thanks in advance! Carotinho Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From b0ef at esben-stien.name Wed Dec 13 20:33:20 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Wed Dec 13 18:45:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: (Vince Werber's message of "Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:56:11 -0500 (EST)") References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <457F035D.1070902@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> Vince Werber writes: > don't we all love those small foot-print applications that require a > heap load of other apps and libs to run. This is a strength of free software and I really don't think there's enough of it, many times;). Often as well, many apps implement features, that really should be in libraries, so that other applications may use it easily as well;). -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From ka1iic at prexar.com Wed Dec 13 14:28:43 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Wed Dec 13 19:33:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <200612131929.01911.ka1iic@prexar.com> Thank you Sir for the respect of your reply! Oh I get the what and why for but I know something that is happening at times and it makes it hard at compile time. Namely developers simply forget that what is the norm on their machines seldom reflects what an end user would have on theirs even with a complete OS... more so when dealing with the libs... I keep a log of what libs I install but for the life of me... I can't remember what I do have without the log... so... I guess I do it too! Also, someone mentioned that there is becoming a split in the Linux community... or something to that effect. There has always been a split from the early times... GNU vs BSD vs everyone else... Time hasn't help these splits but made them greater. Personally I don't like the GNU licensing at all but the BSD seems a bit better and as for the 'others' well... there will always be independent souls that's what 'free' stands for... free as in freedom NOT free from all costs... thanks again vince On Thursday 14 December 2006 01:33, Esben Stien wrote: > Vince Werber writes: > > don't we all love those small foot-print applications that require a > > heap load of other apps and libs to run. > > This is a strength of free software and I really don't think there's > enough of it, many times;). Often as well, many apps implement > features, that really should be in libraries, so that other > applications may use it easily as well;). From downerczx at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 19:59:22 2006 From: downerczx at yahoo.com (DCZX) Date: Wed Dec 13 20:01:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Rock Star Linux Pack Message-ID: <20061214005922.71130.qmail@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello LAU readers, I just wanted to let you know that I've got a "Rock Star Linux Pack" available on www.linuxrockstar.com. It's 3 latest versions of the best music distribution CDs shipped to your door, plus an exclusive Linux Rock Star keychain. Your purchase will help support more interviews, articles and tutorials at Linux Rock Star. thanks Steven p.s. We've got another new interview coming up soon... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From mle+la at mega-nerd.com Wed Dec 13 20:04:46 2006 From: mle+la at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Wed Dec 13 20:05:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612131929.01911.ka1iic@prexar.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612131929.01911.ka1iic@prexar.com> Message-ID: <20061214120446.487b789e.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> Vince Werber wrote: > I keep a log of what libs I install but for the life of me... I can't remember > what I do have without the log... so... I guess I do it too! Quite honstly, i think almost nobody should be installing libraries from source. Rather, I think people should install the pre-packaged library from their distribution. The only exception to the above, is developers actually working on the library and the hopefully rare cases where a developer needs to test a bleedign edge version of a library that the distribution has not yet packaged. As a library author myself, the only two libraries on my system that were installed from source are libsndfile and libsamplerate. Erik -- +-----------------------------------------------------------+ Erik de Castro Lopo +-----------------------------------------------------------+ "It's not that perl programmers are idiots, it's that the language rewards idiotic behavior in a way that no other language or tool has ever done." -- Erik Naggum From ka1iic at prexar.com Wed Dec 13 15:36:04 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Wed Dec 13 20:29:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061214120446.487b789e.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <200612131929.01911.ka1iic@prexar.com> <20061214120446.487b789e.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> Message-ID: <200612132036.15015.ka1iic@prexar.com> I had this weird experience a week ago,,, I was compiling a sound application and it over wrote a part of my libc in some way and caused my xmms that I used to play old radio shows on my second audio card to fail... I didn't notice it until I tried to use xmms the other day... now I got to figure out which one did the deed... that should be great fun awww well... all in a days work vince On Thursday 14 December 2006 01:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Vince Werber wrote: > > I keep a log of what libs I install but for the life of me... I can't > > remember what I do have without the log... so... I guess I do it too! > > > > Quite honstly, i think almost nobody should be installing libraries > from source. Rather, I think people should install the pre-packaged > library from their distribution. > > The only exception to the above, is developers actually working on > the library and the hopefully rare cases where a developer needs to > test a bleedign edge version of a library that the distribution > has not yet packaged. > > As a library author myself, the only two libraries on my system that > were installed from source are libsndfile and libsamplerate. > > Erik From tdhoward at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 20:38:45 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Wed Dec 13 20:42:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Guitar Effects In-Reply-To: <200612140021.09598.carotinobg@yahoo.it> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> <20061213230838.GA24759@localdomain> <200612140021.09598.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: On 12/13/06, Carotinho wrote: > Hi! > > I'm not a guitarist but I've a friend who is, and I'd like to put effects like > distortion or whatever to recorded tracks and also to live sessions. I know > some of you already do this, so may someone kindly explain briefly which > ladspas to use to obtain distortion and so on?:) > > Thanks in advance! > > Carotinho > Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! > http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com > Look at the CAPS library... Preamp, amp, and cabinet modeling get you pretty far. If you need to include other effects besides distortion, use Om to patch stuff together like tremolo, phaser, etc. -TimH From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Wed Dec 13 21:05:09 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Wed Dec 13 21:18:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Guitar Effects In-Reply-To: <200612140021.09598.carotinobg@yahoo.it> References: <20061212111655.GL1996@terra.es> <20061213230838.GA24759@localdomain> <200612140021.09598.carotinobg@yahoo.it> Message-ID: <4580B155.7040302@woh.rr.com> Carotinho wrote: >I'm not a guitarist but I've a friend who is, and I'd like to put effects like >distortion or whatever to recorded tracks and also to live sessions. I know >some of you already do this, so may someone kindly explain briefly which >ladspas to use to obtain distortion and so on?:) > http://www.wakkanet.fi/~kaiv/ecamegapedal/ From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Thu Dec 14 02:16:20 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Thu Dec 14 02:16:34 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: New web site - new track In-Reply-To: <20061017111855.1CDA137BED96@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061017111855.1CDA137BED96@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: yves@jazzcomputer.org: > > Le 16 Oct ? 21:26, Folderol ecrivait: > >> I'll be looking out for it :) > > > http://download.jazzcomputer.org/picklejar/breathes3.ogg :) > It's greatly modified, and gives and idea about how one of Patrick > Shirkey's screenshots sound like :). Nice song. Good work. :-) From ivalladolidt at terra.es Thu Dec 14 05:12:36 2006 From: ivalladolidt at terra.es (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Thu Dec 14 05:13:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Rock Star Linux Pack In-Reply-To: <20061214005922.71130.qmail@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061214005922.71130.qmail@web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061214101236.GO2108@terra.es> DCZX escribe: > I just wanted to let you know that I've got a "Rock Star Linux Pack" > available on www.linuxrockstar.com. It's 3 latest versions of the > best music distribution CDs shipped to your door, plus an exclusive > Linux Rock Star keychain. Your purchase will help support more > interviews, articles and tutorials at Linux Rock Star. You rock! Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ m. +34679156321 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt j. ivalladt@jabberes.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061214/886824d2/attachment.bin From smcameron at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 10:22:33 2006 From: smcameron at yahoo.com (Stephen Cameron) Date: Thu Dec 14 10:31:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612132036.15015.ka1iic@prexar.com> Message-ID: <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I ran into a similar problem once, the symptom appeared to incriminate glibc at first blush, but turned out to be flac library. here's what I recorded about it: Jun 13, 2006 Figured out why xmms was dying with glibc detecting "double free or corruption:" It's because of a bug in the flac lib. Not wanting to waste time getting a new flac (I haven't at the moment got a need for FLAC) I straced xmms and found where it was loading the lib (from /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libxmms-flac.*) moved those files out of there and now xmms runs again. Maybe you're seeing something similar, since it seems unlikely that some package would be touching glibc, since so much depends on it, and upgrading glibc is somewhat tricky (well, I remember a bad experience once mv'ing libc.so on a Sun back in 1994 or so, and suddenly every command that needs libc.so fails to run, LOL, so I assume it is still tricky.) -- steve --- Vince Werber wrote: > I had this weird experience a week ago,,, I was compiling a sound application > and it over wrote a part of my libc in some way and caused my xmms that I > used to play old radio shows on my second audio card to fail... I didn't > notice it until I tried to use xmms the other day... now I got to figure out > which one did the deed... that should be great fun > > awww well... all in a days work > > vince > > > On Thursday 14 December 2006 01:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > > Vince Werber wrote: > > > I keep a log of what libs I install but for the life of me... I can't > > > remember what I do have without the log... so... I guess I do it too! > > > > > > > Quite honstly, i think almost nobody should be installing libraries > > from source. Rather, I think people should install the pre-packaged > > library from their distribution. > > > > The only exception to the above, is developers actually working on > > the library and the hopefully rare cases where a developer needs to > > test a bleedign edge version of a library that the distribution > > has not yet packaged. > > > > As a library author myself, the only two libraries on my system that > > were installed from source are libsndfile and libsamplerate. > > > > Erik > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From mobarre at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 11:24:36 2006 From: mobarre at gmail.com (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Thu Dec 14 11:24:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200612132036.15015.ka1iic@prexar.com> <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3c808a150612140824t1913d9e4j362297a8c9539539@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/06, Stephen Cameron wrote: > > I ran into a similar problem once, the symptom appeared to > incriminate glibc at first blush, but turned out to be flac > library. > > here's what I recorded about it: > > Jun 13, 2006 Figured out why xmms was dying with glibc detecting > "double free or corruption:" It's because of a bug in the flac lib. > Not wanting to waste time getting a new flac (I haven't at the moment > got a need for FLAC) I straced xmms and found where it was loading > the lib (from /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libxmms-flac.*) moved those files > out of there and now xmms runs again. As far as I remember, one version of the the xmms FLAC plugin was buggy and crashed xmms. I haven't tested this for a while. I'll run some tests tonight to see what I can find about this. __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko. From ka1iic at prexar.com Thu Dec 14 14:24:27 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Thu Dec 14 13:22:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612140824t1913d9e4j362297a8c9539539@mail.gmail.com> References: <200612132036.15015.ka1iic@prexar.com> <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3c808a150612140824t1913d9e4j362297a8c9539539@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys for the ideas... You are most correct.... when trying to start xmms it gives an 'invalid pointer' and says it is the 'free()' command if I remember... If needed I will check it later when I am working on that machine... Come to think of it... I think I did an upgrade on FLAC... I'll check my log... once again... thanks! vince On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > On 12/14/06, Stephen Cameron wrote: >> >> I ran into a similar problem once, the symptom appeared to >> incriminate glibc at first blush, but turned out to be flac >> library. >> >> here's what I recorded about it: >> >> Jun 13, 2006 Figured out why xmms was dying with glibc detecting >> "double free or corruption:" It's because of a bug in the flac lib. >> Not wanting to waste time getting a new flac (I haven't at the moment >> got a need for FLAC) I straced xmms and found where it was loading >> the lib (from /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libxmms-flac.*) moved those files >> out of there and now xmms runs again. > > As far as I remember, one version of the the xmms FLAC plugin was > buggy and crashed xmms. I haven't tested this for a while. I'll run > some tests tonight to see what I can find about this. > > __________________ > Marc-Olivier Barre, > Markinoko. > From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Thu Dec 14 13:55:05 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Thu Dec 14 13:45:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] This list Message-ID: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> is getting 'way too serious, so : http://www.archive.org/details/HamhoundCrave http://www.archive.org/details/TogetherAtTheEndOfTheWorld http://www.archive.org/details/NotSoTough Blasts from my past, music recorded to 4-track in the early 1990s. Remastered with Ardour2 and edited with ReZound. Best, dp From ka1iic at prexar.com Thu Dec 14 09:00:27 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Thu Dec 14 13:53:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <691384.4961.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200612141400.33002.ka1iic@prexar.com> Hi Steve, I couldn't wait... I got into the problem machine and removed the FLAC fills to a dummy dir and xmms is back on-line... As for glibc or any of the primary libs... I did the same thing you mentioned many years ago too... I haven't had this much fun since the days of fooling with the IBM 360... Thanks again! vince On Thursday 14 December 2006 15:22, Stephen Cameron wrote: > I ran into a similar problem once, the symptom appeared to > incriminate glibc at first blush, but turned out to be flac > library. > > here's what I recorded about it: > > Jun 13, 2006 Figured out why xmms was dying with glibc detecting > "double free or corruption:" It's because of a bug in the flac lib. > Not wanting to waste time getting a new flac (I haven't at the moment > got a need for FLAC) I straced xmms and found where it was loading > the lib (from /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libxmms-flac.*) moved those files > out of there and now xmms runs again. > > Maybe you're seeing something similar, since it seems unlikely > that some package would be touching glibc, since so much depends > on it, and upgrading glibc is somewhat tricky (well, I remember > a bad experience once mv'ing libc.so on a Sun back in 1994 or so, > and suddenly every command that needs libc.so fails to run, LOL, > so I assume it is still tricky.) > > -- steve > > --- Vince Werber wrote: > > I had this weird experience a week ago,,, I was compiling a sound > > application and it over wrote a part of my libc in some way and caused my > > xmms that I used to play old radio shows on my second audio card to > > fail... I didn't notice it until I tried to use xmms the other day... > > now I got to figure out which one did the deed... that should be great > > fun > > > > awww well... all in a days work > > > > vince > > > > On Thursday 14 December 2006 01:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > > > Vince Werber wrote: > > > > I keep a log of what libs I install but for the life of me... I can't > > > > remember what I do have without the log... so... I guess I do it > > > > too! > > > > > > Quite honstly, i think almost nobody should be installing libraries > > > from source. Rather, I think people should install the pre-packaged > > > library from their distribution. > > > > > > The only exception to the above, is developers actually working on > > > the library and the hopefully rare cases where a developer needs to > > > test a bleedign edge version of a library that the distribution > > > has not yet packaged. > > > > > > As a library author myself, the only two libraries on my system that > > > were installed from source are libsndfile and libsamplerate. > > > > > > Erik > > ___________________________________________________________________________ >_________ Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 14 15:19:46 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Thu Dec 14 15:20:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth Message-ID: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> I simply love lash, but it's not tyeing things together very tight. fst and jack seem to work together well with one vst, but a second vst will not get saved. Its ID shows up in jack_control, but only the second one gets restored when the project is re-opened. Another issue is qsynth. I'm running a lash enabled fluidsynth that works correctly, (but it doesn't rename itself in lash so you get this ugly random name) but when i use qsynth it doesn't join lash. :( versions: qsynth --version Qt: 3.3.6 qsynth: 0.2.5 fluidsynth --version FluidSynth 1.0.7 fst 1.8-r3 lashd version 0.5.2 jackd 0.101.1 Is fst supposed to act that way? is this a bug I need to report? it seems more likely that I just did something wrong. any ideas? /brian From hardbop200 at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 16:00:24 2006 From: hardbop200 at gmail.com (Josh Lawrence) Date: Thu Dec 14 16:00:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth In-Reply-To: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> References: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 12/14/06, Brian Dunn wrote: > I simply love lash, but it's not tyeing things together very tight. fst > and jack seem to work together well with one vst, but a second vst will > not get saved. Its ID shows up in jack_control, but only the second one > gets restored when the project is re-opened. Found this on the home page for fst: Torben Hohn has written that there appears to be a bug in WINE that prevents simultaneous startup of fst instances when a LASH project is restored. The problem can be avoided by having a persistent wineserver running, so just start 'wineserver -p' before reloading a LASH project. -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com From cave.dnb at tiscali.fr Thu Dec 14 16:02:22 2006 From: cave.dnb at tiscali.fr (Nigel Henry) Date: Thu Dec 14 16:02:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] This list In-Reply-To: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> References: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <200612142202.22079.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> On Thursday 14 December 2006 19:55, Dave Phillips wrote: > is getting 'way too serious, so : > > http://www.archive.org/details/HamhoundCrave > > http://www.archive.org/details/TogetherAtTheEndOfTheWorld > > http://www.archive.org/details/NotSoTough > > Blasts from my past, music recorded to 4-track in the early 1990s. > Remastered with Ardour2 and edited with ReZound. > > Best, > > dp Hi Dave. Thanks for sharing. I like the Blues, and "HamhoundCrave" comes over really well, but the best one for me is "TogetherAtTheEndOfThe World". The rhythm is great, and the feeling in the vocals comes through really well. A great tune with everything put into it, no holding back. Nigel. From esa.linna at kolumbus.fi Thu Dec 14 17:26:05 2006 From: esa.linna at kolumbus.fi (Esa Linna) Date: Thu Dec 14 17:25:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Qsynth and .sf2 drum kits Message-ID: <4581CF7D.6010606@kolumbus.fi> Hello, I am successfully banging my midi drum pads* ( via Qsampler (and NSkit7Free .gig). At first I didn't know how to get a right sound from every pad, but I found that I had to change Midi input channels as "all" in Qsampler. Maybe I have to do same for Qsynth. But how? Or do these soundfonts work "straight out of the box" at all, like NSKit7Free? And another question: is there a way to convert sf2 to gig? * my midi drums = http://www.emvg.net/esa/garage/img017.jpeg -- ----------------------- http://www.emvg.net/esa http://www.emvg.net ----------------------- From hardbop200 at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 17:30:57 2006 From: hardbop200 at gmail.com (Josh Lawrence) Date: Thu Dec 14 17:31:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Qsynth and .sf2 drum kits In-Reply-To: <4581CF7D.6010606@kolumbus.fi> References: <4581CF7D.6010606@kolumbus.fi> Message-ID: On 12/14/06, Esa Linna wrote: > And another question: is there a way to convert sf2 to gig? If you're referring to getting the NS kit in gig format, just download it: http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/ns_kit7freedownload.html -- Josh Lawrence http://www.hardbop200.com From esa.linna at kolumbus.fi Thu Dec 14 17:43:38 2006 From: esa.linna at kolumbus.fi (Esa Linna) Date: Thu Dec 14 17:42:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Qsynth and .sf2 drum kits In-Reply-To: References: <4581CF7D.6010606@kolumbus.fi> Message-ID: <4581D39A.6050600@kolumbus.fi> Josh Lawrence kirjoitti: > On 12/14/06, Esa Linna wrote: >> And another question: is there a way to convert sf2 to gig? > > If you're referring to getting the NS kit in gig format, just download > it: > > http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/ns_kit7freedownload.html > Thanks but no, I already got that. I would like to 1. convert sf2 files to gig 2. make Qsynth and sf2 -drum kits work that I could play midi drum pads, with right sounds for right pads From lau at kudla.org Thu Dec 14 18:13:48 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Thu Dec 14 18:16:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> References: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <200612141813.48140.lau@kudla.org> On Sunday 10 December 2006 15:47, Rob wrote: > I bet that the Wii remote will make an awesome (but still not > right-on) virtual theremin possible pretty soon, though. Turns out this guy has already some pretty interesting stuff with a Wiimote and a Nord Lead, though it sounds like he mapped the different axes of movement to the filters rather than the usual pitch and volume. No idea whether he was doing it through Linux, but since Wiimote drivers exist for Windows and Linux now, there's certainly a chance ;) http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1524401318 The Wiimote looks like it's about to become the world's cheapest non-traditional computer music controller, at 40 bucks. Rob From rncbc at rncbc.org Thu Dec 14 18:59:51 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Thu Dec 14 19:18:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth In-Reply-To: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> References: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4581E577.7080805@rncbc.org> Brian Dunn wrote: > Another issue is qsynth. I'm running a lash enabled fluidsynth that > works correctly, (but it doesn't rename itself in lash so you get this > ugly random name) but when i use qsynth it doesn't join lash. :( > > versions: > > qsynth --version > Qt: 3.3.6 > qsynth: 0.2.5 > > fluidsynth --version > FluidSynth 1.0.7 > AFAICT qsynth is not lash enabled. Is there a real need for it? I can only find the one for jack/alsa connections recall, for which I've been using qjackctl patchbay since its very own inception ;) FWIW all other qsynth state is preserved as its own, as usual. However, if there's any sufficient demand for it, I believe some lash enabling patch to qsynth is not that really hard to put up. Someone could just borrow the fluidsynth's one and bring it to me? Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From rncbc at rncbc.org Thu Dec 14 19:15:02 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Thu Dec 14 19:31:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Qsynth and .sf2 drum kits In-Reply-To: <4581D39A.6050600@kolumbus.fi> References: <4581CF7D.6010606@kolumbus.fi> <4581D39A.6050600@kolumbus.fi> Message-ID: <4581E906.3060902@rncbc.org> Esa Linna wrote: > Josh Lawrence kirjoitti: >> On 12/14/06, Esa Linna wrote: >>> And another question: is there a way to convert sf2 to gig? >> >> If you're referring to getting the NS kit in gig format, just download >> it: >> >> http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/ns_kit7freedownload.html >> > > Thanks but no, I already got that. I would like to > > 1. convert sf2 files to gig > 2. make Qsynth and sf2 -drum kits work that I could play midi drum pads, > with right sounds for right pads I don't know about that specific soundfont, but you could try looking into Qsynth's Channels presets, tweak and save as soon as it works :) Maybe you have to change something on your drumpad setup, regarding MIDI note/keys mapping to fit the one of the soundfont. Remember that each pad most certainly emits one MIDI note event over the wire when triggered. Check which MIDI channel and note (key) are being sent and make it fit to the ones that your soundfont bank/program preset is rendering. It might just be a matter of some trial-and-error :)) Some MIDI event monitoring might be of help too (e.g. amidi) Cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 14 19:27:14 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Thu Dec 14 19:39:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth In-Reply-To: References: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4581EBE2.7090404@sbcglobal.net> Josh Lawrence wrote: > On 12/14/06, Brian Dunn wrote: >> I simply love lash, but it's not tyeing things together very tight. fst >> and jack seem to work together well with one vst, but a second vst will >> not get saved. Its ID shows up in jack_control, but only the second one >> gets restored when the project is re-opened. > > Found this on the home page for fst: > > Torben Hohn has written that there appears to be a bug in WINE that > prevents simultaneous startup of fst instances when a LASH project is > restored. The problem can be avoided by having a persistent wineserver > running, so just start 'wineserver -p' before reloading a LASH > project. > Wow, that fixed the fst prob! I deserved a hardy RTM for that one. thanks Josh. anyone getting good behavior from qsynth re lash? From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Dec 14 19:35:24 2006 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu Dec 14 19:45:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Thesis: Playing and making music In-Reply-To: <200612141813.48140.lau@kudla.org> References: <457C1042.9060205@woh.rr.com> <200612101547.12171.lau@kudla.org> <200612141813.48140.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <4581EDCC.9020201@hawaii.rr.com> Rob wrote: > On Sunday 10 December 2006 15:47, Rob wrote: >> I bet that the Wii remote will make an awesome (but still not >> right-on) virtual theremin possible pretty soon, though. > > Turns out this guy has already some pretty interesting stuff with > a Wiimote and a Nord Lead, though it sounds like he mapped the > different axes of movement to the filters rather than the usual > pitch and volume. No idea whether he was doing it through > Linux, but since Wiimote drivers exist for Windows and Linux > now, there's certainly a chance ;) > > http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1524401318 > > The Wiimote looks like it's about to become the world's cheapest > non-traditional computer music controller, at 40 bucks. That sounds totally cool! The interesting thing about the Wiimote is that its motion sensitivity is not new. 20+ years ago, there was a game controller that looked like a fat cigar, with a cable coming out the bottom (remote stuff wasn't commercially viable back then). You held it in your hand and tilted forward, backward, sideways, could swing it around, etc. It was fully motion sensitive. Worked with Commodore, Atari, Apple (I think) home computers plus some video game consoles of the time. -- David gnome@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community From njcross at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 14 21:28:04 2006 From: njcross at sbcglobal.net (njcross@sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu Dec 14 21:11:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth Message-ID: <200612141828.04282.njcross@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:59:51 +0000 From: Rui Nuno Capela Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth To: A list for linux audio users Message-ID: <4581E577.7080805@rncbc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > AFAICT qsynth is not lash enabled. Is there a real need for it? I can > only find the one for jack/alsa connections recall, for which I've been > using qjackctl patchbay since its very own inception ;) FWIW all other > qsynth state is preserved as its own, as usual. > > However, if there's any sufficient demand for it, I believe some lash > enabling patch to qsynth is not that really hard to put up. Someone > could just borrow the fluidsynth's one and bring it to me? Does qjackctl load the applications as well as the connections? If not, then qsynth lash enabled would be very useful to me. From pw_lists at slinkp.com Thu Dec 14 21:36:08 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Thu Dec 14 21:52:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano Message-ID: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? I've been using qsynth and making do with some Roland samples I got from hammersound.net , but they're not all that great. How's the stuff from pianosounds.com ? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From b0ef at esben-stien.name Fri Dec 15 00:13:12 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Thu Dec 14 22:25:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612120821.53826.bengan@sunet.se> (Bengt =?utf-8?b?Rw==?= =?utf-8?b?w7ZyZMOpbidz?= message of "Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:21:53 +0100") References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> <200612120821.53826.bengan@sunet.se> Message-ID: <87d56lpwrb.fsf@esben-stien.name> Bengt G?rd?n writes: > Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? It's an excellent idea and I've mentioned it before;). I'd like to hear the the views of the person who created the new audio wiki and some comment from Hans Fugal. Is it possible to agree on this?, then have Ivica point to the starting page of it on his site. Do we really need three wikis' when there is no conflicting view? -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From markknecht at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 22:27:54 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Thu Dec 14 22:28:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> 16-bit Bardstown Bosendorfer using GigaStudio here. This gig file used to work well with LS a couple of years ago. However I no longer touch LS due to their licensing changes so I cannot vouch for operation currently, but it's probably OK. If you were to buy the Bardstown gig these days it would come in 24-bit. I don't know the status of that gig file with LS. Hope this helps Paul. Cheers, Mark On 12/14/06, Paul Winkler wrote: > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > I've been using qsynth and making do with some Roland samples I got > from hammersound.net , but they're not all that great. > > How's the stuff from pianosounds.com ? > > -- > > Paul Winkler > http://www.slinkp.com > From rlrevell at joe-job.com Thu Dec 14 22:50:06 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Thu Dec 14 22:52:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87d56lpwrb.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <006601c71d7d$40e3fff0$c0c752c6@64BitBadass> <87mz5tq1ge.fsf@esben-stien.name> <200612112209.19739.lau@kudla.org> <200612120821.53826.bengan@sunet.se> <87d56lpwrb.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <1166154606.9342.208.camel@mindpipe> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 06:13 +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > Bengt G?rd?n writes: > > > Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? > > It's an excellent idea and I've mentioned it before;). Same here. Why take on all that administrative work when Wikipedia will do it for you? Lee From pw_lists at slinkp.com Thu Dec 14 22:57:29 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Thu Dec 14 22:59:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> Progress: The free (beer) soundfont from http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm is quite usable, much better than the Roland sounds I found at hammersound. I'm gonna try the 80 MB version too, it's only $5 US. -PW -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 00:27:29 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Fri Dec 15 00:27:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <8200bab70612142127o3b6be55dx5478f0c8edbffb6@mail.gmail.com> On 12/1/06, Bill Allen wrote: > > At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just reading > this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting into > trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set aside > a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with all the > real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. Yes, > you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my family > system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do music I boot > into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to make a general > purpose distro into a music enabled one. I don't understand why everyone who tells me about some new Linux thing has apparently had a breeze of a time with it, and yet when I try it it never works. I just downloaded and installed 64studio (I didn't boot Linux for the remainder of my semester, like I promised myself), and I find that jackd crashes out of the box (i.e. set to 46.4 ms latency). It kind of feels like I have another Debian install just like the previous one, only it doesn't detect the ethernet so I can't search for help on the same machine. After a few weeks using Windows, I'm not even sure why I was so intent on Linux. I think for a few weeks I was actually enjoying the struggle. I'm not now; is this going to be less of one? -Chuckk From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 01:29:00 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 01:29:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612142127o3b6be55dx5478f0c8edbffb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Your point is IMHO solid. For all the distros I've tried, they all required some level of tinkering to get them where I liked them. Granted, I am a bit partial towards polished desktop experience, but even so, a majority of my work goes towards cleaning-up my audio apps as often prebuilt packages are incomplete (CCRMA being a glaring exception to this). All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of polish expected from a modern OS. However, given the size of pro audio market coupled with Linux market, anyone venturing in this is going to have a heck of a time turning profit... Until such time comes, IMHO we're bound to continue tinkering, which is something you may or may not find acceptable given the long-term benefits Linux offers. Best wishes, Ico > -----Original Message----- > From: linux-audio-user-bounces@music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio- > user-bounces@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Chuckk Hubbard > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:27 AM > To: A list for linux audio users > Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel > > On 12/1/06, Bill Allen wrote: > > > > At the risk of repeating myself, in the time that I've been just reading > > this thread (not to mention the time that you've been putting into > > trying the stuff mentioned) I could have downloaded 64Studio, set aside > > a 5-10 GB partition, installed it, and had a working system with all the > > real-time patched AMD64 music-enabled system that you can get. Yes, > > you've got to dual boot, I do it all the time. Ubuntu is my family > > system that we use for work and play, but when I want to do music I boot > > into 64Studio. It's simply a lot easier than trying to make a general > > purpose distro into a music enabled one. > > I don't understand why everyone who tells me about some new Linux > thing has apparently had a breeze of a time with it, and yet when I > try it it never works. I just downloaded and installed 64studio (I > didn't boot Linux for the remainder of my semester, like I promised > myself), and I find that jackd crashes out of the box (i.e. set to > 46.4 ms latency). It kind of feels like I have another Debian install > just like the previous one, only it doesn't detect the ethernet so I > can't search for help on the same machine. > After a few weeks using Windows, I'm not even sure why I was so intent > on Linux. I think for a few weeks I was actually enjoying the > struggle. I'm not now; is this going to be less of one? > > -Chuckk From fbar at footils.org Fri Dec 15 01:35:04 2006 From: fbar at footils.org (Frank Barknecht) Date: Fri Dec 15 01:36:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <20061215063504.GA6961@fliwatut.scifi> Hallo, Paul Winkler hat gesagt: // Paul Winkler wrote: > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > I've been using qsynth and making do with some Roland samples I got > from hammersound.net , but they're not all that great. I like this: http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/ns_piano.html Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Fri Dec 15 01:44:50 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Fri Dec 15 01:51:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061215062929.18AD84DE58B0@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061215062929.18AD84DE58B0@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Esben Stien: > >> Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? > > It's an excellent idea and I've mentioned it before;). I'd like to > hear the the views of the person who created the new audio wiki and > some comment from Hans Fugal. > > Is it possible to agree on this?, then have Ivica point to the > starting page of it on his site. > > Do we really need three wikis' when there is no conflicting view? > No, the idea is very good. However, it should be of the same quality as Dave's page. And therefore, we need all the categories he has. (list below). Because I think the first thing to do would be to copy all the contents from Dave's page into wikipedia. And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create all these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, linux-audio-digital-dj, and so on.) Audio Plugins CD Software Csound & Cmix Helpers Demos Digital DJ Documentation/Newsworthy Drumming DSP Software Emulators Effects Processors File Compression File Conversion Games & Game Software Guitar Software Hardware + Linux JACK Linux Audio Bundles & Distributions Linux Music On-line Looping Software Mailing Lists MIDI Software Mixers MOD Trackers/Players/Resources MPEG (MP3) Players/Encoders Multitrack Recorders/Mixers Music Notation Musicians Utilities Network Audio OggVorbis Software Other Sound+MIDI Pages Other UNIX Audio and MIDI Software Players & Recorders Radio Repositories & Lists Scopes Software Synthesis & Music Composition Software Tools Sound Cards & Drivers Soundfile Editors Sounds For Free Speech Synthesis/Analysis Telephony/AV Conferencing Wikis From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 01:51:29 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 01:52:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <00aa01c72015$73336aa0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > Your point is IMHO solid. For all the distros I've tried, they all > required > some level of tinkering to get them where I liked them. Granted, I am a > bit > partial towards polished desktop experience, but even so, a majority of my > work goes towards cleaning-up my audio apps as often prebuilt packages are > incomplete (CCRMA being a glaring exception to this). Forgot to add a disclaimer: forgot to exclude 64studio, DeMuDi, Apodio, Turnkey, dyne and/or dyne:bolic (am I missing any?) from the aforementioned statement, some of which I have a limited experience with (meaning they likely have very well configured audio apps). Hence, my sincere apologies to respective projects for my half-assed statement that may have unintentionally resulted in unfounded criticism. :-) Best wishes, Ico From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 02:00:48 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 02:00:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00ab01c72016$c0723cf0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > No, the idea is very good. However, it should be of the same > quality as Dave's page. And therefore, we need all the categories > he has. (list below). Because I think the first thing to do would be to > copy all the contents from Dave's page into wikipedia. > > And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create all > these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, linux-audio-digital-dj, and so > on.) I'd say that wikipedia should be used as a summary page, rather than an exhaustive resource with app-specific documentation. So, I guess in that respect I do agree with your ideas. However, I do not see it as an exhaustive documentation resource for every app. Another observation is that while most of the apps have decent documentation on their homepages, none of it is standardized in terms of layout/cross-referencing/etc. and therefore an easy read. This is where our documentation page could shine providing a streamlined/standardized resource. More so, if we generate such a resource, I am convinced that a quorum of Linux audio users who may not be able to contribute code, may be more willing to donate their time in maintaining/contributing to the documentation project, especially if the format for such contributions is demystified with appropriate templates. Ultimately, this would also help project developers not worry as much about the documentation, so it would be a win-win situation for all. Heck, in due time, we may even attract some financial support from various commercial distros in order to maintain this distro-agnostic resource. For the aforesaid reasons, I feel that a wikipedia page in conjunction to project's homepages is IMHO not enough. That is not to say that we shouldn't have one, but I simply see it as a summary resource which leads user towards the real documentation site. Best wishes, Ico From lau at kudla.org Fri Dec 15 02:15:27 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Fri Dec 15 02:15:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: <20061215062929.18AD84DE58B0@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612150215.27340.lau@kudla.org> On Friday 15 December 2006 01:44, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create > all these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, > linux-audio-digital-dj, and so on.) I think that if we replicated the level of detail from Dave's pages, our stuff would get tossed out faster than you can say "AFD: Delete, Not Notable". While wikis do have issues with the balance between ease of editing and maintainability in the face of a spammer army, I think having a dedicated Linux Audio wiki is absolutely called for. Rob From jamesmstone at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 02:45:55 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Fri Dec 15 02:50:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> White Grand and Rain Piano (both from http://www.sampletekk.com/ are both very nice.. WG for more pop/rock/jazz piano, RP for the sound of that almost-in-tune piano you might find in a pub!!). Also "The Emperor" from Post pianos http://www.postpiano.com/ has a lovely sound, but the gig files are corrupted and missing some notes at some velocities (at least on LS!).. I emailed post about this but have never received a satisfactory reply. That being said, Michiel seems a very nice guy and is generally quite helpful. LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the code in commercial hardware or software projects without the consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: >Can I use LinuxSampler for commercial music production? > >Hell, yes! Every indirect commercial usage of LinuxSampler, which >essentially means using its audio output, can of course be used >in commercial applications like music productions, live shows, >etc. Don't get us wrong, with the mentioned commercial exception >we don't want to restrict the normal user / musician, we just >want to avoid somebody to directly make money with our work, that >is by selling our software in a sampler product like a sampler + >sample library bundle, a hardware sampler or something >equivalent, at least not without giving something back to the >open source Community. James On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 07:27:54PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > 16-bit Bardstown Bosendorfer using GigaStudio here. This gig file used > to work well with LS a couple of years ago. However I no longer touch > LS due to their licensing changes so I cannot vouch for operation > currently, but it's probably OK. If you were to buy the Bardstown gig > these days it would come in 24-bit. I don't know the status of that > gig file with LS. > > Hope this helps Paul. > > Cheers, > Mark > > On 12/14/06, Paul Winkler wrote: > >what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > >tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > > >I've been using qsynth and making do with some Roland samples I got > >from hammersound.net , but they're not all that great. > > > >How's the stuff from pianosounds.com ? > > > >-- > > > >Paul Winkler > >http://www.slinkp.com > > From jamesmstone at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 02:48:09 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Fri Dec 15 02:52:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <20061215074807.GB5435@moon.base> > > How's the stuff from pianosounds.com ? > The free direct download is _OK_ but not really up to the quality of the gig files I refer to in my other post. (but for $5 who's complaining!?) James From lars.luthman at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 03:09:24 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Fri Dec 15 03:09:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> Message-ID: <1166170164.11698.3.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 07:45 +0000, James Stone wrote: > LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 > bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark > refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the > code in commercial hardware or software projects without the > consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: > > >Can I use LinuxSampler for commercial music production? > > > >Hell, yes! Every indirect commercial usage of LinuxSampler, which > >essentially means using its audio output, can of course be used > >in commercial applications like music productions, live shows, > >etc. Don't get us wrong, with the mentioned commercial exception > >we don't want to restrict the normal user / musician, we just > >want to avoid somebody to directly make money with our work, that > >is by selling our software in a sampler product like a sampler + > >sample library bundle, a hardware sampler or something > >equivalent, at least not without giving something back to the > >open source Community. Nice to see that they cleared that up, but it's still sad that you can't steal code from LinuxSampler and mix it with pure GPL code to make a new GPL program. -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061215/cc35493a/attachment-0001.bin From yves at jazzcomputer.org Fri Dec 15 03:13:51 2006 From: yves at jazzcomputer.org (Yves Potin) Date: Fri Dec 15 03:13:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: New web site - new track In-Reply-To: References: <20061017111855.1CDA137BED96@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20061215081351.GA13362@localhost> Le 14 Dec ? 08:16, Kjetil S. Matheussen ecrivait: > > http://download.jazzcomputer.org/picklejar/breathes3.ogg :) > > Nice song. Good work. :-) Thank you very much :). Y. From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Fri Dec 15 04:11:54 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Fri Dec 15 04:24:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061215080945.B4BD74DECDAD@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061215080945.B4BD74DECDAD@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: "Ivica Ico Bukvic": >> No, the idea is very good. However, it should be of the same >> quality as Dave's page. And therefore, we need all the categories >> he has. (list below). Because I think the first thing to do would be to >> copy all the contents from Dave's page into wikipedia. >> >> And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create all >> these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, linux-audio-digital-dj, and so >> on.) > > I'd say that wikipedia should be used as a summary page, rather than an > exhaustive resource with app-specific documentation. So, I guess in that > respect I do agree with your ideas. However, I do not see it as an > exhaustive documentation resource for every app. > > Another observation is that while most of the apps have decent documentation > on their homepages, none of it is standardized in terms of > layout/cross-referencing/etc. and therefore an easy read. This is where our > documentation page could shine providing a streamlined/standardized > resource. More so, if we generate such a resource, I am convinced that a > quorum of Linux audio users who may not be able to contribute code, may be > more willing to donate their time in maintaining/contributing to the > documentation project, especially if the format for such contributions is > demystified with appropriate templates. Ultimately, this would also help > project developers not worry as much about the documentation, so it would be > a win-win situation for all. Heck, in due time, we may even attract some > financial support from various commercial distros in order to maintain this > distro-agnostic resource. > This sounds like an extremely good good idea. Speaking for myself, I very seldom bother to make homepages for all of my software, but if there had been a system (preferably some kind of wiki), it wouldn't be much hassle to create them. > For the aforesaid reasons, I feel that a wikipedia page in conjunction to > project's homepages is IMHO not enough. That is not to say that we shouldn't > have one, but I simply see it as a summary resource which leads user towards > the real documentation site. > Yes. From bengan at sunet.se Fri Dec 15 05:53:52 2006 From: bengan at sunet.se (Bengt =?iso-8859-1?q?G=F6rd=E9n?=) Date: Fri Dec 15 05:54:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612150215.27340.lau@kudla.org> References: <20061215062929.18AD84DE58B0@music.columbia.edu> <200612150215.27340.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <200612151153.52608.bengan@sunet.se> fredag 15 december 2006 08:15 skrev Rob: > On Friday 15 December 2006 01:44, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create > > all these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, > > linux-audio-digital-dj, and so on.) > > I think that if we replicated the level of detail from Dave's > pages, our stuff would get tossed out faster than you can > say "AFD: Delete, Not Notable". I think that the easyest way to find out is to wright and ask. Or just chat with them at their different IRC channels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions But hey. I have no problem with a specific wiki. It's up to the implementor or the community. But I haven't heard any really good arguments for a specific one. Good arguments for Wikipedia as I see them * Well known place * Can attract more people in a shorter while * Administrationlayer that already works * Help with structuring and writing english for those that aren't that fluent in the language (me :-). regards, /bengan From chris at mccormick.cx Fri Dec 15 06:35:48 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Fri Dec 15 06:53:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061215113548.GC28012@mccormick.cx> On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:09:05PM +0100, Jay Vaughan wrote: > Personally, as a musician and as a > long-term, dedicated, Linux user, I'd like to see a more 'turnkey > hardware' approach to Linux audio. Imagine if you could (for > example), put a simple SD card in something like the GP2X and get > yourself a fully-functional hardware sampler/sequencer environment > with zero setup fuss While this is the opposite of what you're talking about, it could potentially be used to build what you are talking about: http://mccormick.cx/projects/gp2xPd/ Sorry, the word GP2X set off my plug-my-software alarm. :) Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From linuxuadio at rytmisk.net Fri Dec 15 07:00:31 2006 From: linuxuadio at rytmisk.net (Ketil Thorgersen) Date: Fri Dec 15 07:03:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45828E5F.2030808@rytmisk.net> Mathias Friman skrev: > Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > >>>> open for editing to all registered users >>>> >>> How is the one we already have, not perfect? >>> > > >> It's nice, but it will need to evolve, since software also evolves. >> > > I don't know if it is just me, but isn't a wiki the worst case scenario for this > site? It is a link collection, and most, if not all, of the software in the links > already have websites of their own to some extent. A wiki, and this one > seems to be no exception, lacks a clear navigational structure, or at least > overview. The basic questions that need to be answered are: > > 1. Where am I? > 2. Where can I go? > 3. How can I get back? > > and in a wiki those questions are harder to answer than in a regular menudriven > website. And first and foremost, most wikis are fairly ugly. ;) > Mm - I have to agree on this one unfortunately! I have been at a fair number of wikis, and they always seem confusing to me - and ugly. Despite the good effort my personal impression is th the original site is much more intuitive. But I guess that is just a matter of changing the lay out of the site since the database is in place. My advice would be: tune down the wiki aspect. Make the software list right there in your face when you arrive. Just my 0.2 kr. Ketil From nedko at arnaudov.name Fri Dec 15 07:16:20 2006 From: nedko at arnaudov.name (Nedko Arnaudov) Date: Fri Dec 15 07:13:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <45828E5F.2030808@rytmisk.net> (Ketil Thorgersen's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:00:31 +0100") References: <45828E5F.2030808@rytmisk.net> Message-ID: <874prxs6az.fsf@arnaudov.name> Ketil Thorgersen writes: > Mm - I have to agree on this one unfortunately! I have been at a fair > number of wikis, and they always seem confusing to me - and > ugly. Despite the good effort my personal impression is th the > original site is much more intuitive. But I guess that is just a > matter of changing the lay out of the site since the database is in > place. My advice would be: tune down the wiki aspect. Make the > software list right there in your face when you arrive. Layout/outlook is matter of theme, a feature mature wiki engines support. -- Nedko Arnaudov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061215/1cacf47b/attachment.bin From jri at broadpark.no Fri Dec 15 07:26:49 2006 From: jri at broadpark.no (Johannes Mario Ringheim) Date: Fri Dec 15 07:27:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of > polish expected from a modern OS. Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. Generally, as you point out, Linux Audio is a niche market, and specialized distros being unstable is probably due to much less testing and community than ordinary distros wich have many times as many users. -- Ringheims Auto - Fri musikk for bilstereo! http://ringheimsauto.org From lanas at securenet.net Fri Dec 15 07:42:18 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Fri Dec 15 07:42:08 2006 Subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children) In-Reply-To: <1165884841.11796.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> References: <200612091121.41135.bengan@sunet.se> <1165739565.2138.4.camel@knc-se-lap0001.knorca.se> <20061210130217.7c5e45e2@mistral.stie> <1165788577.6054.5.camel@mustis> <20061211192845.33219b38@mistral.stie> <1165884841.11796.6.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <20061215074218.282a4968@mistral.stie> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:54:01 +0100 Lars Luthman ?crivait: > On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 19:28 -0500, lanas wrote: > > That's beside the point. If I can install Jokosher in about 120 > > seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not > > exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because > > somebody else than the developers took care of packaging it. The > > developers themselves did not. > You can't expect programmers to write detailed documentation for every > Foobar Linux out there. Foobar Linux ? That's a new one. Is it like GoboLinux ? I would expect for one, the GoboLinux team to package the apps. Nobody does it like them. They have a very interesting system but it is surely alien to many if not most 'Common Joe' app developer. Hey, is 'Coomon Joe' the author of 'Foobar Linux' ? GoboLinux aside, we are left with about 5 major distros. Debian, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora, SuSE_HastaLaVista (or what they'll call it). That surely does not look like an unmanageable number of distros. Unless you use Mono, for lack of better development tools. > The only thing that can be reasonably expected > is generic installation instructions - "install these versions of > these libraries then run 'make install'". Making things work > seamlessly with Foobar Linux is the job of the packagers and > distribution maintainers of Foobar Linux, any distribution-specific > info from the actual programmers is just a bonus. If tire makers would think the same, they'd put out tire sizes that no car maker would like to install. >> For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ? > I don't know if there is one, but if there isn't, wouldn't it be up to > the CCRMA people to package it and not the Jokosher authors? Or the app maker making it very easy for CCRMA users to adopt and use ? CCRMA is not an obscure distro I think. And Jokosher is an audio app. Al From renick at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 09:02:21 2006 From: renick at gmail.com (Renick Bell) Date: Fri Dec 15 09:02:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: >> And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create all >> these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, linux-audio-digital-dj, and so >> on.) I am not an experienced Wikipedia contributor, but it seems that they are generally fine with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold "It is usually worth proposing any changes to categories and/or templates on talk or other relevant WikiProject pages prior to making any change." The general guidelines for creating categories and subcategories are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization#How_to_create_categories > I'd say that wikipedia should be used as a summary page, rather than an > exhaustive resource with app-specific documentation. So, I guess in that > respect I do agree with your ideas. However, I do not see it as an > exhaustive documentation resource for every app. I think that is what the Wikipedia policies also have in mind. I thought that the point, from the subject, was attracting more developers (and non-Linux users, especially). For that purpose, Wikipedia is probably a much better starting point than a more Linux-centric site. As for the specific documentation, my suggestion is to limit the number of wikis. One is really better than three. It means less maintenance work for the maintainers (and thanks to those who decide to do it). It will be much easier for a community of this limited size to clean up the vandalism of spammers or correct mistakes than dividing our efforts among three locations. Maybe most importantly, if I have a question, I don't have to go to three different places to look for the information. Similarly, if I have documentation to contribute, I don't have to go three places to add it. -- Renick Bell http://www.the3rd2nd.com From jayv at synth.net Fri Dec 15 09:05:44 2006 From: jayv at synth.net (Jay Vaughan) Date: Fri Dec 15 09:06:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> References: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: >My only question would be what the options for audio input are on >the GP2X as I'm not aware of it being a Firewire or USB host. > The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any USB device that you want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x supports, works: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=33095&hl=breakout Picture softsynth/sequencing/sampling/MIDI control center applications on that hardware? Me too .. -- ; Jay Vaughan From jayv at synth.net Fri Dec 15 09:11:16 2006 From: jayv at synth.net (Jay Vaughan) Date: Fri Dec 15 09:11:52 2006 Subject: GP2XPd (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <20061215113548.GC28012@mccormick.cx> References: <20061215113548.GC28012@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: >While this is the opposite of what you're talking about, it could >potentially be used to build what you are talking about: > >http://mccormick.cx/projects/gp2xPd/ > >Sorry, the word GP2X set off my plug-my-software alarm. :) > Oh, don't worry .. I'm fully aware of gp2xPd .. ;) Its one of the things that makes this setup quite lovely: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tschuktschuk/203837189/in/set-72157594220067743/ ... ;) -- ; Jay Vaughan From pw_lists at slinkp.com Fri Dec 15 10:29:37 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Fri Dec 15 10:29:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> Message-ID: <20061215152937.GA7294@slinkp.com> Cool, the samples sound very nice. I'll probably buy that (or maybe Black Grand) if I ever get "serious". -PW On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 07:45:55AM +0000, James Stone wrote: > White Grand and Rain Piano (both from http://www.sampletekk.com/ > are both very nice.. WG for more pop/rock/jazz piano, RP for the > sound of that almost-in-tune piano you might find in a pub!!). > Also "The Emperor" from Post pianos http://www.postpiano.com/ has > a lovely sound, but the gig files are corrupted and missing some > notes at some velocities (at least on LS!).. I emailed post about > this but have never received a satisfactory reply. That being > said, Michiel seems a very nice guy and is generally quite > helpful. > > LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 > bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark > refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the > code in commercial hardware or software projects without the > consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From capocasa at gmx.net Fri Dec 15 10:31:25 2006 From: capocasa at gmx.net (Carlo Capocasa) Date: Fri Dec 15 10:32:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> References: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> Message-ID: >> So the long run solution to the free audio problem is to persuade >> everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and >> find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make >> the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they >> should want it. >> > Why don't you start by persuading yourself to provide whatever you do > for free, etc? It's easy to insist that others should do free work for > you. But are you ready to do full time hard work for free for the others? Of course. I developed a business plan to produce commercially salable music and give it away for free and I am in the process of executing it. This is an intermediate plan on the way to my vision of a society where money is no longer necessary because people trust they will be able to sustain themselves and work for the satisfaction of accomplishing what they want to. > Brilliant idea. Someone else should pay to somebody else so that you can > get Linux audio software for free. What about paying for the software > yourself? 'Attracting money' refers to advertising revenue, sales of merchandising, and donations, which would pour in from people who are grateful for getting my music for free. My productive contribution comes from composing, arranging and producing the music, as well as marketing it. As money comes in, a significant portion goes to the developers in the form of donations. > About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux > audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90% > of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software > developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use > them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there > is no market for professional developers. I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I disagree that paying for the software 'per unit' is a good idea because it kills network effects and fosters competition. My suggestion is to MAKE the donations model work through a dual selling process: First you sell your user on the idea of using your software, and THEN you sell your user on the idea of donating. That second sales process takes the place of downright charging, and is a proper (if challenging, until you get good at it) replacement for enforcing intellectual property rights, which is simply impractical in the world of infinite replicability that we have on the Internet. I appreciate your comments, Hainu; I really think free software can be much more than it is right now for the good of society, and I have specific ideas on how to accomplish this, an I am infinitely grateful to anyone who will take these ideas into consideration. Have a great day! Carlo From capocasa at gmx.net Fri Dec 15 10:39:31 2006 From: capocasa at gmx.net (Carlo Capocasa) Date: Fri Dec 15 10:40:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <3c808a150612121045k16e74aafma62ae6daad1560a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> <3c808a150612121045k16e74aafma62ae6daad1560a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I know a few devs here who will be extremely happy to be called > amateurs. Moreover, the company I work for would be very happy to have > such amateurs as employees... I would like to point out that the root meaning of 'amateur' is 'someone who loves doing what he does', and is not inherently an indicator of quality. Quality comes from investing a lot of time and effort, and when that is eaten away by stuff that's 'not fun but pays well', amateur products become less desirable. So the solution to this dilemma is to make the donations model work well enough that anyone who writes truly good software and gives it away can earn enough to survive and get what they want. We can do this by instilling into the public the thought that they should a) use free software and b) donate significant amounts of money after using it. We can simply do this by repeating the message over and over again at every opportunity, and repeat it to ourselves as well until we believe in it enough. Thus is created new 'social norms', like giving lots of money to free software developers. It's been done before, we can do it too. Carlo From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 11:44:26 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 11:51:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003301c72068$48b9eb20$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> > > I'd say that wikipedia should be used as a summary page, rather than an > > exhaustive resource with app-specific documentation. So, I guess in that > > respect I do agree with your ideas. However, I do not see it as an > > exhaustive documentation resource for every app. > > I think that is what the Wikipedia policies also have in mind. I > thought that the point, from the subject, was attracting more > developers (and non-Linux users, especially). For that purpose, > Wikipedia is probably a much better starting point than a more > Linux-centric site. > > As for the specific documentation, my suggestion is to limit the > number of wikis. One is really better than three. It means less > maintenance work for the maintainers (and thanks to those who decide > to do it). It will be much easier for a community of this limited size > to clean up the vandalism of spammers or correct mistakes than > dividing our efforts among three locations. Maybe most importantly, if > I have a question, I don't have to go to three different places to > look for the information. Similarly, if I have documentation to > contribute, I don't have to go three places to add it. So, in a nutshell, we agree? Ico From robin at gareus.org Fri Dec 15 11:47:35 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Fri Dec 15 11:54:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <00ab01c72016$c0723cf0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <00ab01c72016$c0723cf0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <4582D1A7.10106@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >> No, the idea is very good. However, it should be of the same >> quality as Dave's page. And therefore, we need all the categories >> he has. (list below). Because I think the first thing to do would be to >> copy all the contents from Dave's page into wikipedia. >> I'm not sure if we can easily "copy" all of the content into wikipedia.. and IMHO that's exactly the point: wikipedia will learn about [linux] audio software by other means and present it as an encyclopedia entry. (eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardour_%28audio_processor%29 ) I don't think wikipedia will provide a flexible interface for indexing and browsing sound applications.. but I'll support any endeavors. >> And the question then is, will wikipedia allow us to create all >> these sub-categories? (linux-audio-Demos, linux-audio-digital-dj, and so >> on.) > > I'd say that wikipedia should be used as a summary page, rather than an > exhaustive resource with app-specific documentation. So, I guess in that > respect I do agree with your ideas. However, I do not see it as an > exhaustive documentation resource for every app. i could not have said it better! cheers Ivica. > For the aforesaid reasons, I feel that a wikipedia page in conjunction to > project's homepages is IMHO not enough. That is not to say that we shouldn't > have one, but I simply see it as a summary resource which leads user towards > the real documentation site. I'd like to see the current (3?) wiki approaches to be improved and merged into http://lau.linuxaudio.org or wiki.linuxaudio.org.. and going to continue the discussion in the wiki thread.. #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFgtGneVUk8U+VK0IRAiunAJ99XUaDLH2AnKd/RlGM1wndVK9ySACgm3E5 aFtmp8L6N7Mj6EBH2jgBh/g= =xtxM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From robin at gareus.org Fri Dec 15 11:51:10 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Fri Dec 15 11:56:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <874prxs6az.fsf@arnaudov.name> References: <45828E5F.2030808@rytmisk.net> <874prxs6az.fsf@arnaudov.name> Message-ID: <4582D27D.4020709@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nedko Arnaudov wrote: > Ketil Thorgersen writes: > >> Mm - I have to agree on this one unfortunately! I have been at a fair >> number of wikis, and they always seem confusing to me - and >> ugly. Despite the good effort my personal impression is th the >> original site is much more intuitive. But I guess that is just a >> matter of changing the lay out of the site since the database is in >> place. My advice would be: tune down the wiki aspect. Make the >> software list right there in your face when you arrive. > > Layout/outlook is matter of theme, a feature mature wiki engines > support. > indeed. additional navigation buttons and a menu will be important updates that come with a wiki-template. before getting started on the look and feel however, there are some more issues: "tune down the wiki aspect" - if you see the page-source of http://linux-sound.sonologic.nl/lad:all:jamin for example: ~~META:desc=JACK Audio Mastering, "... a tool for producing audio masters from a mixed-down multitrack source" ~~ ~~META:logo=lad:images:jamin.png~~ ~~META:screenshot=http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/about/scr02.png~~ ~~META:banner=~~ we could a) introduce more META tags and make minimal use of the actual wiki pages for the application. -> the whole wiki will become a Meta-Data page index. browse like this: http://linux-sound.sonologic.nl/lad:categories:all_things_jack b) use a minimal set of META tags, and have customized wiki pages for each application. c) a + b :) what's nice about the static html @ linux-sound.org is that it can be mirrored/cached easily. for a wiki this takes a little more effort. I'm lucky and going to spend the next days skiing, but will back with new ideas and enthusiasm after the 23C3. #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFgtJ9eVUk8U+VK0IRAkiwAJ9RRL61hwcLwh0hSOJJfVyLFhCklQCeOwWB nFTjwSW/ba23lHb+aN2nrvY= =8KoV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 12:14:30 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 12:14:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] linux-sound porting & documentation proposal (Was: Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <003301c72068$48b9eb20$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <003c01c7206c$7bd39890$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> How about we stop the seemingly endless discussion and instead all roll-up our sleeves and actually do this? Here's what I offer on behalf of linuxaudio.org: 1) generous hosting space 2) virtually unlimited bandwidth 3) docs.linuxaudio.org and apps.linuxaudio.org domains 4) accounts to maintainers 5) server support as needed What we need volunteers to do: 1) port Dave's pages over into a legible and appealing format to apps.linuxaudio.org 2) cross-link those pages to docs.linuxaudio.org page (in addition to apps homepages) which will be a wiki with documentation templates and standardized layout 3) need to design an appealing interface for both sites (hence consider this an open call for volunteer designers) -- this cannot be emphasized enough: we do not want an ugly, plain website, but a nice inviting and user-oriented resource. 4) create a generic wikipedia entry which gives a summary, philosophy, and notable achievements of the linux audio scene and provides critical links (hence it would be used as a portal rather than an exhaustive resource for a moving target which would never fly with the wikipedia editors anyhow) On a side note, here's another offer: As per my discussion with Joern, on behalf of linuxaudio.org I also offer free unlimited space for porting over LAU and LAD lists to lists.linuxaudio.org in hopes that we continue consolidating these invaluable resources. Maintainers will be given appropriate access privileges etc. Any takers? Best wishes, Ico From ross at kallisti.us Fri Dec 15 12:22:26 2006 From: ross at kallisti.us (Ross Vandegrift) Date: Fri Dec 15 12:22:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> Message-ID: <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 07:45:55AM +0000, James Stone wrote: > LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 > bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark > refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the > code in commercial hardware or software projects without the > consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my modifications are required to be free software. -- Ross Vandegrift ross@kallisti.us "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 From jamesmstone at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 12:40:11 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Fri Dec 15 12:40:27 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> Message-ID: <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 12:22:26PM -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 07:45:55AM +0000, James Stone wrote: > > LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 > > bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark > > refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the > > code in commercial hardware or software projects without the > > consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: > > I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a > clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: > > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD > > Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any > purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if > I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my > modifications are required to be free software. I know.. They released it as non-free software (as in speech) and non-GPL. Their license is exactly the same as the GPL except for their non-commercial use clause, which, as you say makes it non-compatible with the GPL. I think some of the libraries that LS uses are GPL but I have not checked recently, and before you start complaining, they were all written by the same authors as released LS so it is up to them if they want to abide by their own license terms or not.. Therefore (AFAIK) LS does not _have_ to be GPL. I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of programming. I can understand why they want to see some return if someone uses their code.. and I don't think they see releasing modification of source code as sufficient recompense for commercial uses of their code. I guess if you were to donate masses of cash, they might reconsider their decision. Anyway, this argument has been done to death on the LS list, so there is little point repeating it here. I think the authors are fairly clear about the terms they want in their license. James From lars.luthman at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 13:02:16 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:02:29 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> Message-ID: <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 17:40 +0000, James Stone wrote: > > I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a > > clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: > > > > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney > > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA > > https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD > > > > Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any > > purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if > > I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my > > modifications are required to be free software. > > I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as > in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of > programming. I'm not so sure that it is open source as it stands now. Paragraph 7 of the GPL says: "If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all." So if you are not allowed to distribute LinuxSampler for commercial purposes you are not allowed to distribute it at all. I'm sure this is not what the LinuxSampler people intend, but as the license stands now it is inconsistent and, according to paragraph 7 of the GPL, invalid - which means that normal copyright law applies, without any extra freedoms at all. But you are right that this has been discussed to death several times already, and if the LinuxSampler authors haven't fixed the license by now they are probably not going to do it in the forseeable future either. I withdraw from the discussion. -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061215/d628fb54/attachment.bin From shulmang at colorado.edu Fri Dec 15 13:07:04 2006 From: shulmang at colorado.edu (Garett Shulman) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:08:21 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> Lars Luthman wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 17:40 +0000, James Stone wrote: > >>> I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a >>> clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: >>> >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD >>> >>> Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any >>> purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if >>> I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my >>> modifications are required to be free software. >>> >> I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as >> in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of >> programming. >> > > I'm not so sure that it is open source as it stands now. Paragraph 7 of > the GPL says: > > "If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent > infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), > conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or > otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not > excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute > so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and > any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not > distribute the Program at all." > > So if you are not allowed to distribute LinuxSampler for commercial > purposes you are not allowed to distribute it at all. I'm sure this is > not what the LinuxSampler people intend, but as the license stands now > it is inconsistent and, according to paragraph 7 of the GPL, invalid - > which means that normal copyright law applies, without any extra > freedoms at all. > > But you are right that this has been discussed to death several times > already, and if the LinuxSampler authors haven't fixed the license by > now they are probably not going to do it in the forseeable future > either. I withdraw from the discussion. > > Well... If LS links to GPL code that it's authors do not own the copyright to than this is true. However, as a copyright owner of code that does not link to any GPL code you are free to release software under absolutely whatever license you choose... including 'almost exactly GPL but with x, y, & z differences'. Trolltech licesenses their code under two different licenses, GPL, & a non-GPL license. But because they own the copyright to their code this is not a problem. From b0ef at esben-stien.name Fri Dec 15 14:57:32 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:09:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <003301c72068$48b9eb20$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:44:26 -0500") References: <003301c72068$48b9eb20$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87tzzxszir.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > we agree? No;). As long as there is no solution to combine not registering and registering, there will at least be two wikis'. I'm sure there is a solution to this and I can see it, but I don't know if there are any implementations of such features: An entry into the wiki for approved revisions by "maintainers" (people who register) and an entry for those of us that believe that a wiki should be free. That way, "maintainers" could sequentially approve revisions. We also still don't agree if we should have a combined effort on wikipedia;) and this is a real problem, cause wikipedia will always be there. Wikipedia might not be the best solution, I agree, but if we don't use it, there will probably be a split, now 4, but minimal 3: Wikipedia, Fugal and the LAD wiki. I honestly don't know the solution, but I guess those who start doing something will determine the outcome. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From christhemonkey at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 13:16:12 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:16:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] linux-sound porting & documentation proposal (Was: Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <003c01c7206c$7bd39890$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <003301c72068$48b9eb20$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <003c01c7206c$7bd39890$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <79eea87e0612151016m176976d3y5189ef3e3ffb071@mail.gmail.com> On 12/15/06, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > How about we stop the seemingly endless discussion and instead all roll-up > our sleeves and actually do this? > > Here's what I offer on behalf of linuxaudio.org: > > 1) generous hosting space > 2) virtually unlimited bandwidth > 3) docs.linuxaudio.org and apps.linuxaudio.org domains > 4) accounts to maintainers > 5) server support as needed > > What we need volunteers to do: > > 1) port Dave's pages over into a legible and appealing format to > apps.linuxaudio.org > 2) cross-link those pages to docs.linuxaudio.org page (in addition to apps > homepages) which will be a wiki with documentation templates and > standardized layout > 3) need to design an appealing interface for both sites (hence consider this > an open call for volunteer designers) -- this cannot be emphasized enough: > we do not want an ugly, plain website, but a nice inviting and user-oriented > resource. > 4) create a generic wikipedia entry which gives a summary, philosophy, and > notable achievements of the linux audio scene and provides critical links > (hence it would be used as a portal rather than an exhaustive resource for a > moving target which would never fly with the wikipedia editors anyhow) > > On a side note, here's another offer: > > As per my discussion with Joern, on behalf of linuxaudio.org I also offer > free unlimited space for porting over LAU and LAD lists to > lists.linuxaudio.org in hopes that we continue consolidating these > invaluable resources. Maintainers will be given appropriate access > privileges etc. > > Any takers? > > Best wishes, > > Ico > > From lars.luthman at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 13:22:37 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:22:55 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 11:07 -0700, Garett Shulman wrote: > Lars Luthman wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 17:40 +0000, James Stone wrote: > > > >>> I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a > >>> clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: > >>> > >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney > >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA > >>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD > >>> > >>> Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any > >>> purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if > >>> I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my > >>> modifications are required to be free software. > >>> > >> I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as > >> in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of > >> programming. > >> > > > > I'm not so sure that it is open source as it stands now. Paragraph 7 of > > the GPL says: > > > > "If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent > > infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), > > conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or > > otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not > > excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute > > so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and > > any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not > > distribute the Program at all." > > > > So if you are not allowed to distribute LinuxSampler for commercial > > purposes you are not allowed to distribute it at all. I'm sure this is > > not what the LinuxSampler people intend, but as the license stands now > > it is inconsistent and, according to paragraph 7 of the GPL, invalid - > > which means that normal copyright law applies, without any extra > > freedoms at all. > > > > But you are right that this has been discussed to death several times > > already, and if the LinuxSampler authors haven't fixed the license by > > now they are probably not going to do it in the forseeable future > > either. I withdraw from the discussion. > > > > > Well... If LS links to GPL code that it's authors do not own the > copyright to than this is true. However, as a copyright owner of code > that does not link to any GPL code you are free to release software > under absolutely whatever license you choose... including 'almost > exactly GPL but with x, y, & z differences'. Trolltech licesenses their > code under two different licenses, GPL, & a non-GPL license. But because > they own the copyright to their code this is not a problem. I don't mean that they are violating any license themselves, they are of course allowed to do whatever they want with the code that they wrote. I mean that the current license (GPL + inconsistent add-on) can be interpreted as saying that no one is allowed to distribute LinuxSampler at all except the people that already have that right without any licensing (the authors). -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061215/25d6dc4d/attachment.bin From shulmang at colorado.edu Fri Dec 15 13:24:51 2006 From: shulmang at colorado.edu (Garett Shulman) Date: Fri Dec 15 13:26:07 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <4582E873.6080409@colorado.edu> Lars Luthman wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 11:07 -0700, Garett Shulman wrote: > >> Lars Luthman wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 17:40 +0000, James Stone wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a >>>>> clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney >>>>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA >>>>> https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD >>>>> >>>>> Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any >>>>> purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if >>>>> I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my >>>>> modifications are required to be free software. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as >>>> in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of >>>> programming. >>>> >>>> >>> I'm not so sure that it is open source as it stands now. Paragraph 7 of >>> the GPL says: >>> >>> "If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent >>> infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), >>> conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or >>> otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not >>> excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute >>> so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and >>> any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not >>> distribute the Program at all." >>> >>> So if you are not allowed to distribute LinuxSampler for commercial >>> purposes you are not allowed to distribute it at all. I'm sure this is >>> not what the LinuxSampler people intend, but as the license stands now >>> it is inconsistent and, according to paragraph 7 of the GPL, invalid - >>> which means that normal copyright law applies, without any extra >>> freedoms at all. >>> >>> But you are right that this has been discussed to death several times >>> already, and if the LinuxSampler authors haven't fixed the license by >>> now they are probably not going to do it in the forseeable future >>> either. I withdraw from the discussion. >>> >>> >>> >> Well... If LS links to GPL code that it's authors do not own the >> copyright to than this is true. However, as a copyright owner of code >> that does not link to any GPL code you are free to release software >> under absolutely whatever license you choose... including 'almost >> exactly GPL but with x, y, & z differences'. Trolltech licesenses their >> code under two different licenses, GPL, & a non-GPL license. But because >> they own the copyright to their code this is not a problem. >> > > I don't mean that they are violating any license themselves, they are of > course allowed to do whatever they want with the code that they wrote. I > mean that the current license (GPL + inconsistent add-on) can be > interpreted as saying that no one is allowed to distribute LinuxSampler > at all except the people that already have that right without any > licensing (the authors). > > Oh... I see. Hm... That's interesting. From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 13:53:54 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri Dec 15 14:07:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87tzzxszir.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Please do not take what follows personally, but rather as a critical observation of your comments. :) > As long as there is no solution to combine not registering and > registering, there will at least be two wikis'. Well, so be it. Please correct me if I am wrong, but so far I know for sure that this particular thing bothers only you, and I've not gotten a clear answer whether you would be willing to put in time to maintain such a potential spamfest of a Wiki. Hence, on behalf of linuxaudio.org I am inclined to make an offer to the Linux audio community that favors majority (again, please correct me if I am wrong). > Wikipedia might not be the best solution, I agree, but if we don't use > it, there will probably be a split, now 4, but minimal 3: > > Wikipedia, Fugal and the LAD wiki. I can almost guarantee it that Wikipedia will decline a full-blown documentation page simply because Linux audio software, just as any other software is a moving target which may radically change, making documentation outdated, and/or become deprecated, making respective wiki pages obsolete, and as such should not be a part of an online encyclopedia. Hence, this one will be out of the race before you know it (unless we use it as a general introduction/portal to other resources in which case it does not collide with the existence of a dedicated Wiki, but rather, it is there to redirect traffic). As far as the LAD Wiki is concerned, I am not sure which one you are referring to, but if it is already a part of the linuxaudio.org domain, I am quite sure that a cross-pollination of ideas and/or consolidation will be possible, hence this is most likely also a non-issue. So, IMHO this leaves us with only two possibilities: Fugal and what I've proposed. If Fugal maintainers are willing I would love to see a collaborative endeavor develop between linuxaudio.org and Fugal. We simply must understand that as long as we propose fragmentation of the humble Linux audio scene because of our hard-line stands/preferences (most of whose impact is superficial at best while creating an unreasonable amount of overhead), we will be spending immense amounts of time and effort reinventing the wheel. This fact alone should make any sane person cry from frustration. Best wishes, Ico From ka1iic at prexar.com Fri Dec 15 09:19:48 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Fri Dec 15 14:23:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers<<>> In-Reply-To: <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <9365e7eadbfb5211ab5b141d8321e750@knorca.se> <87d56nntwf.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <200612151419.55906.ka1iic@prexar.com> Folks, Please don't take anything I say personal... it's not meant that way at all. The question put forward is; 'Attracting more Linux audio developers'... Here's may take on the question. All IMHO... A good way to attract more audio developers is to make it worthwhile for them to do what they do... develop. Be it for free, as in freedom, or even with a profit incentive. Also attracting more users will help. We can't attract anyone if we bicker and 'dis' persons that have given greatly in the past but because they graduated from University and need to put food on the table today. When you get old time becomes of great value, besides dis-ing anyone is extremely bad form and terribly unproductive. As my people say, 'be most respectful of the gifts that have been given'. To that I will add, don't toss gifts given in to the face of the giver... ever... If we want to attract more users what is being developed today needs to be allot more user friendly then some of the applications are to date. The "KISS" method comes to mind here. This next part I don't like but will mention it; User friendly can only exist if there are clear instructions on the useage of any package... GUI's come to mind. Many new comers don't want to even see the Uni* console, they want to see... and see clearly... That is what GUI's are for right? As for Linux audio users... it's a very small select group and that always makes it hard to get any new development going. I know of very few persons that want to play a small or empty house. I personally am looking into the 'live' distros these days. I think that they might be the way to go. I have passed around a number of 'Puppy Linux- seamonkey version' for some friends that want a change from 'micro-(semi) soft' products. It's a very user friendly distro for beginners. I also have burned a CD of the 'M-dist' live CD... that's the music live system. The idea of have different distros for specific operations seems to be a very workable way for Linux to go. Not everyone wants more than one computer so these discs are an excellent way to go. M-dist can be a bit of a challenge for a newbie tho... For the developer's keeping the libraries under control would be very helpful... Perhaps making static distros of product? I've been running Slackware since the beginning so messing with scripts and such is no big deal but for a newbies any of this could be a nightmare'. frustrating and even maddening. We have lost an unknown number of users because of setup alone... and that comes back to 'KISS'... So there's my quick blurb... for what it's worth... vince From atte.jensen at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 14:22:01 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Fri Dec 15 14:29:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612142127o3b6be55dx5478f0c8edbffb6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0611291230t6f75efc4g6ba184e6fd73c2a1@mail.gmail.com> <8200bab70611291243i35d1de1aj26f8123bbcdaba20@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> <8200bab70612142127o3b6be55dx5478f0c8edbffb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4582F5D9.7090004@gmail.com> Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > I don't understand why everyone who tells me about some new Linux > thing has apparently had a breeze of a time with it, and yet when I > try it it never works. Did you consider looking for a local linux user group? You might be lucky that there's alot of helpful, knowledgeable people just around the corner willing to spend the time helping you "in person" in the (so called) real world. This could get your regular linux distro up and running in an evening, although you might have to take it from there, since they're not likely to know much about RT audio. Around where I live (Copenhagen, Denmark) I believe there are install parties every week. -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From mathias.friman at knorca.se Fri Dec 15 14:39:00 2006 From: mathias.friman at knorca.se (Mathias Friman) Date: Fri Dec 15 14:39:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers Message-ID: It's really a simple question: What is most important? 1. Good documentation, or 2. freely editable documentation? I do think that it is possible to have good documentation even if it is not freely editable. Contributions can be made in more ways than wikifying the content. And if the content is wikified and contributing is only possible through registration, only those that are motivated enough goes through the process of being authenticated. Also, all the worlds problems cannot be solved with a wiki. There are countless examples where a wiki is not the answer, and there are countless examples where a wiki is the only answer. When you have a hammer, everything is a nail. For contemplation: http://www.bbspot.com/News/2003/09/net_well.html Regards, Mathias From tdhoward at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 14:58:53 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Fri Dec 15 14:59:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215152937.GA7294@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215152937.GA7294@slinkp.com> Message-ID: On 12/15/06, Paul Winkler wrote: > Cool, the samples sound very nice. > I'll probably buy that (or maybe Black Grand) if I ever get "serious". > > -PW > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 07:45:55AM +0000, James Stone wrote: > > White Grand and Rain Piano (both from http://www.sampletekk.com/ > > are both very nice.. WG for more pop/rock/jazz piano, RP for the > > sound of that almost-in-tune piano you might find in a pub!!). > > Also "The Emperor" from Post pianos http://www.postpiano.com/ has > > a lovely sound, but the gig files are corrupted and missing some > > notes at some velocities (at least on LS!).. I emailed post about > > this but have never received a satisfactory reply. That being > > said, Michiel seems a very nice guy and is generally quite > > helpful. > > > > LS will work with proper 32 bit samples now. It used to read 32 > > bit but play them back at 16 bit. The new license that Mark > > refers to is a modification of the GPL fobidding the use of the > > code in commercial hardware or software projects without the > > consent of the authors. This is what they say on the FAQ: > > -- > > Paul Winkler > http://www.slinkp.com > While you are at the Post Piano page, check out the "Old Lady" and "Bosendorfer 290" libraries. I have these, and they sound awesome with LS. (Of course, not _all_ the instruments in the gig files work, but there are both wet and dry instruments on both that work perfectly.) If you want to get these, be sure to get both the GS2 + GS3 libraries. (Available on one DVD for $50 US, and a steal at that!) Some restrictions apply. See store for details. Not available in counties in Oregon beginning with the letter L... blah blah blah. -TimH From folderol at ukfsn.org Fri Dec 15 14:59:46 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Fri Dec 15 15:00:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Sombody had to do it Message-ID: <20061215195946.7b8612d5@general> ... but why did it have to be me? :) It's that time of year isn't it? So that's my excuse. This is a slightly different arrangement of a well known melody. http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Silent_Night.ogg -- Will J G From ats at offog.org Fri Dec 15 16:31:07 2006 From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:31:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> (Paul Winkler's message of "Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:36:08 -0500") References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: Paul Winkler writes: > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? I like Soeren Bovbjerg's Steinway soundfont with fluidsynth: http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano4.html I have to dial down the pressure sensitivity a bit on my keyboard to stop it sounding like I'm always hammering the keys, though. -- Adam Sampson From lau at kudla.org Fri Dec 15 16:31:39 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:32:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] yet another linux sound wiki. In-Reply-To: <874prxs6az.fsf@arnaudov.name> References: <45828E5F.2030808@rytmisk.net> <874prxs6az.fsf@arnaudov.name> Message-ID: <200612151631.39267.lau@kudla.org> On Friday 15 December 2006 07:16, Nedko Arnaudov wrote: > Ketil Thorgersen writes: > > Mm - I have to agree on this one unfortunately! I have been > > at a fair number of wikis, and they always seem confusing to > > me - and ugly. Despite the good effort my personal > Layout/outlook is matter of theme, a feature mature wiki > engines support. However, layout of the content across the entire wiki is an organizational issue, not an engine issue. No wiki (or probably, any other CMS) will automatically organize your information in a way that makes sense to someone who's not already familiar with it. That's up to the authors and editors, and the democratic nature of a wiki means your information design can drift pretty quickly. Rob From pw_lists at slinkp.com Fri Dec 15 16:32:58 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:34:08 2006 Subject: Linuxsampler license again, was Re: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <4582E873.6080409@colorado.edu> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <5bdc1c8b0612141927j618d2f85j4ec0fbf00f10b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20061215074555.GA5435@moon.base> <20061215172225.GA26917@kallisti.us> <20061215174011.GA9030@moon.base> <1166205736.11698.15.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> <4582E873.6080409@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <20061215213258.GD7294@slinkp.com> Can I please be allowed to mention linuxsampler on the linux-audio-user list without the thread devolving into Yet Another License Argument? Please change the subject line. Thank you. -PW On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:24:51AM -0700, Garett Shulman wrote: > Lars Luthman wrote: > >On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 11:07 -0700, Garett Shulman wrote: > > > >>Lars Luthman wrote: > >> > >>>On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 17:40 +0000, James Stone wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>>I hate to be a jerk and crap on someone's project, but this is a > >>>>>clear violation of the GPL. Here's some GPL FAQs that explain this: > >>>>> > >>>>>https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney > >>>>>https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowNDA > >>>>>https://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCOrigBSD > >>>>> > >>>>>Software freedom zero requires that a program be usable for any > >>>>>purpose whatsoever with no restrictions or limitations. Of course if > >>>>>I produce a hardware device that uses a modified LinuxSampler, my > >>>>>modifications are required to be free software. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>I agree it is a shame LS is not Free Software, but it is free as > >>>>in beer, and open source, and is a really nice piece of > >>>>programming. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I'm not so sure that it is open source as it stands now. Paragraph 7 of > >>>the GPL says: > >>> > >>>"If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent > >>>infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), > >>>conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or > >>>otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not > >>>excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute > >>>so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and > >>>any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not > >>>distribute the Program at all." > >>> > >>>So if you are not allowed to distribute LinuxSampler for commercial > >>>purposes you are not allowed to distribute it at all. I'm sure this is > >>>not what the LinuxSampler people intend, but as the license stands now > >>>it is inconsistent and, according to paragraph 7 of the GPL, invalid - > >>>which means that normal copyright law applies, without any extra > >>>freedoms at all. > >>> > >>>But you are right that this has been discussed to death several times > >>>already, and if the LinuxSampler authors haven't fixed the license by > >>>now they are probably not going to do it in the forseeable future > >>>either. I withdraw from the discussion. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Well... If LS links to GPL code that it's authors do not own the > >>copyright to than this is true. However, as a copyright owner of code > >>that does not link to any GPL code you are free to release software > >>under absolutely whatever license you choose... including 'almost > >>exactly GPL but with x, y, & z differences'. Trolltech licesenses their > >>code under two different licenses, GPL, & a non-GPL license. But because > >>they own the copyright to their code this is not a problem. > >> > > > >I don't mean that they are violating any license themselves, they are of > >course allowed to do whatever they want with the code that they wrote. I > >mean that the current license (GPL + inconsistent add-on) can be > >interpreted as saying that no one is allowed to distribute LinuxSampler > >at all except the people that already have that right without any > >licensing (the authors). > > > > > Oh... I see. Hm... That's interesting. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From lau at kudla.org Fri Dec 15 16:37:10 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:42:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <200612151637.10641.lau@kudla.org> On Friday 15 December 2006 09:05, Jay Vaughan wrote: > The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any USB device > that you want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x > supports, works: Wow, when that thing comes out, I might have to get me a GP2X. Chris McCormick's Pd port looks pretty sweet to me as well.... maybe sweeter than the "real" Pd. Maybe the GP2X will end up being the portable composer tool I always hoped the Zaurus would become. Rob From lau at kudla.org Fri Dec 15 16:40:00 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:42:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: References: <457EA7E3.2070400@opensound.com> Message-ID: <200612151640.00972.lau@kudla.org> On Friday 15 December 2006 10:31, Carlo Capocasa wrote: > This is an intermediate plan on the way to my vision of a > society where money is no longer necessary because people > trust they will be able to sustain themselves and work for the > satisfaction of accomplishing what they want to. The problem with utopian visions is that they almost never take into account the people who want to accomplish nothing more than having a beer and watching American Idol. And I have known A LOT of people like that, sadly enough. Rob From pw_lists at slinkp.com Fri Dec 15 16:53:00 2006 From: pw_lists at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler) Date: Fri Dec 15 16:53:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <20061215215300.GE7294@slinkp.com> On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:31:07PM +0000, Adam Sampson wrote: > Paul Winkler writes: > > > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > I like Soeren Bovbjerg's Steinway soundfont with fluidsynth: > http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano4.html Thanks! But argh, this brings up a problem I've seen before: There doesn't seem to be a linux-compatible extractor for sfark v1 files. pw@kermit bovberg $ sfarkxtc BechsteinPiano.sfArk ====================================================================== sfArkXTc 1.03 (using sfArkLib version: 224) copyright (c) 1998-2004 melodymachine.com, free for non-commercial use ====================================================================== Uncompressing BechsteinPiano.sfArk... *** This file was created with sfArk V1, and this program only handles sfArk V2+ files. Use sfArk instead. Time taken 0.00 seconds Result: File was created by incompatible sfArk version (not 2.x) ---FAILED--- (errorcode 5) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com From lau at kudla.org Fri Dec 15 16:57:02 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Fri Dec 15 17:13:04 2006 Subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <4582E448.7050306@colorado.edu> <1166206957.11698.19.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <200612151657.03305.lau@kudla.org> On Friday 15 December 2006 13:22, Lars Luthman wrote: > I don't mean that they are violating any license themselves, > they are of course allowed to do whatever they want with the > code that they wrote. I mean that the current license (GPL + > inconsistent add-on) can be interpreted as saying that no one > is allowed to distribute LinuxSampler at all except the people > that already have that right without any licensing (the > authors). I could be wrong, but I don't think you're even allowed to use the GPL on your software if you modify its terms, except to add an exception to make it more lenient.... Don't forget, the GPL itself (specifically, the preamble to the GPL) is a copyrighted work, owned by the FSF, and they have to approve its use in derivative but incompatible licenses. At least that's my non-legally-educated reading of their FAQ. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ModifyGPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs (about exceptions) But that wouldn't be a GPL violation, that would be a violation of the copyright on the GPL itself. So it wouldn't matter if they wrote every line of the code themselves. But I also assume someone already talked with the FSF about this when it first happened. In the end, the project needs a well-maintained fork just to end the controversy. See also: WineX/Rewind/Cedega vs. Wine. Wine went LGPL, the WineX guys forked the last BSDish licensed version to use in their proprietary software, saying "Hey guys, contribute code to us and we promise we'll share our stuff back... eventually.... after enough of you buy it..." but everyone flocked to the LGPLed version instead. The fact that a LS fork hasn't happened yet makes me think not enough people care about it to do so. Rob From cave.dnb at tiscali.fr Fri Dec 15 17:17:33 2006 From: cave.dnb at tiscali.fr (Nigel Henry) Date: Fri Dec 15 17:30:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215215300.GE7294@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215215300.GE7294@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <200612152317.33140.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> On Friday 15 December 2006 22:53, Paul Winkler wrote: > On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:31:07PM +0000, Adam Sampson wrote: > > Paul Winkler writes: > > > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > > > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > > > I like Soeren Bovbjerg's Steinway soundfont with fluidsynth: > > http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano4.html > > Thanks! But argh, this brings up a problem I've seen before: There > doesn't seem to be a linux-compatible extractor for sfark v1 files. I found the same problem, and ended up using the windows version of sfark with Wine. It's annoying, but works. Nigel. From b0ef at esben-stien.name Fri Dec 15 19:11:08 2006 From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien) Date: Fri Dec 15 17:31:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> (Ivica Ico Bukvic's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:53:54 -0500") References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> "Ivica Ico Bukvic" writes: > Please do not take what follows personally I'm very hard to offend;). > I know for sure that this particular thing bothers only you ;), not so sure. The problem is, I don't believe in a documentation system where you have to register; I've seen too many that gets updated so very infrequent. > I've not gotten a clear answer whether you would be willing to put > in time to maintain such a potential spamfest of a Wiki. My answer was that the user does this himself. Each time the user visits the wiki, if there is spam there, he reverts it to a previous revision. We can have a feed, like Fugal, that notifies us of updates; if someone spams we'll know immediately, but nevertheless, a user is fully capable of reverting to a previous revision; it's not like a wiki is unknown territory. There should be no reason to maintain a wiki in the common sense, as far as I believe. > on behalf of linuxaudio.org I am inclined to make an offer to the > Linux audio community that favors majority I understand your position, but also understand my disbelief. I can understand that people don't want spam, but I only see less contributors with such a scheme. I can only speak for my own behavior, seeing myself editing frequent Fugal entries, in this context. In other contexts, when I stumble over incorrect or outdated entries of information at sites where you have to register, I just continue my Internet navigation, except some instances where I send a mail to the administrator, asking him to free the wiki. > I can almost guarantee it that Wikipedia will decline a full-blown > documentation page simply because Linux audio software, just as any other > software is a moving target which may radically change, making documentation > outdated, and/or become deprecated, making respective wiki pages obsolete, > and as such should not be a part of an online encyclopedia. I'm not so sure about my stance on wikipedia and I'd like to hear what other people feel. I know that I will back such an effort if people want it and of course, contribute. > Hence, this one will be out of the race before you know it (unless > we use it as a general introduction/portal to other resources in > which case it does not collide with the existence of a dedicated > Wiki, but rather, it is there to redirect traffic Yes, but the wikipedia issue will not go away. As long as you have reference, wikipedia will keep the entry, because an encyclopedia documents the past and the present. > As far as the LAD Wiki is concerned, I am not sure which one you are > referring to The potential future one that you talk about. > as long as we propose fragmentation of the humble Linux audio scene > because of our hard-line stands/preferences [..] we will be spending > immense amounts of time and effort reinventing the wheel. It's more a fact. If you make a registration required wiki, someone WILL make a non registration required wiki. How about just setting up a wiki, have it open and see how it goes?. How about just pointing wiki.linuxaudio.org to the Fugal wiki, work on it and see how the cookie crumbles?. -- Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a http://www. s t n m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@ n n From ico at vt.edu Fri Dec 15 18:03:07 2006 From: ico at vt.edu (ico@vt.edu) Date: Fri Dec 15 18:03:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Wiki (Was: Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> > > Please do not take what follows personally > > I'm very hard to offend;). Good! :-) > > > I know for sure that this particular thing bothers only you > > ;), not so sure. > > The problem is, I don't believe in a documentation system where you > have to register; I've seen too many that gets updated so very > infrequent. And I do appreciate your stance. However, please note that your statements have provided plenty of "I"s, but no "We"s. Hence, I would like to hear what others have to say about this. > My answer was that the user does this himself. Each time the user > visits the wiki, if there is spam there, he reverts it to a previous > revision. > > We can have a feed, like Fugal, that notifies us of updates; if > someone spams we'll know immediately, but nevertheless, a user is > fully capable of reverting to a previous revision; it's not like a > wiki is unknown territory. My inbox is alredy a mess. The last thing I need is another mess waiting to happen to flood my inbox asking extra time from me which I already have too little of. The only reason I am replying to this topic so verbosely is because: 1) I am very much interested in this particular topic and 2) it is the end of semester here and I can actually afford to reply Again, if you volunteer to maintain this overhead (either by organizing a dedicated 0-day response team who will manage this or whichever other way you wish to do that in order to ensure that the University server does not host Viagra adds and other messages of questionable nature), I will gladly provide space for such a Wiki. "Users will take care of it" does not cut it in the real world because: 1) It creates a paradoxal situation where no one is responsible for misuse, meaning linuxaudio.org will be responsible and subsequently may lose its right to be hosted by a University for free 2) Does not guarrantee 0-day response Both of these points can be summarized to "the model yields no structure one can uphold when facing circumstances which require accountability." > There should be no reason to maintain a wiki in the common sense, as > far as I believe. > > > on behalf of linuxaudio.org I am inclined to make an offer to the > > Linux audio community that favors majority > > I understand your position, but also understand my disbelief. I can > understand that people don't want spam, but I only see less > contributors with such a scheme. I can only speak for my own behavior, > seeing myself editing frequent Fugal entries, in this context. In > other contexts, when I stumble over incorrect or outdated entries of > information at sites where you have to register, I just continue my > Internet navigation, except some instances where I send a mail to the > administrator, asking him to free the wiki. I appreciate that but I am also equivalently skeptical about your model based upon my Internet/admin experience. I also fear that at the end of the day most users will prove to be indiferrent, or worse yet, they will post to the LAU list how a particular page is mangled asking someone else to take care of it, ultimately forcing me or someone else in linuxaudio.org to clean-up. And that is something I am not ready to do. Rather, I would like to see some kind of an accountability. For Dave's legacy sakes, I think we owe it to him to provide resource with the same kind of accountability as his site. > > I can almost guarantee it that Wikipedia will decline a full-blown > > documentation page simply because Linux audio software, just as any other > > software is a moving target which may radically change, making > documentation > > outdated, and/or become deprecated, making respective wiki pages obsolete, > > and as such should not be a part of an online encyclopedia. > > I'm not so sure about my stance on wikipedia and I'd like to hear what > other people feel. I know that I will back such an effort if people > want it and of course, contribute. > > > Hence, this one will be out of the race before you know it (unless > > we use it as a general introduction/portal to other resources in > > which case it does not collide with the existence of a dedicated > > Wiki, but rather, it is there to redirect traffic > > Yes, but the wikipedia issue will not go away. As long as you have > reference, wikipedia will keep the entry, because an encyclopedia > documents the past and the present. That would be even worse, as that would simply perpetuate current problem of having many documentation resources for the same app, some of which are outdated, and others which outright conflict each other. > > > As far as the LAD Wiki is concerned, I am not sure which one you are > > referring to > > The potential future one that you talk about. > > > as long as we propose fragmentation of the humble Linux audio scene > > because of our hard-line stands/preferences [..] we will be spending > > immense amounts of time and effort reinventing the wheel. > > It's more a fact. If you make a registration required wiki, someone > WILL make a non registration required wiki. Again, fine. If that is what the community wants, we shall have it. I've made my proposal under the terms which were the best I could offer. My proposal is non-coercive nor definite, it is simply the best what linuxaudio.org could offer. Now, it is up to you and the rest of the community to decide what you wish to do about this. > How about just setting up a wiki, have it open and see how it > goes?. How about just pointing wiki.linuxaudio.org to the Fugal wiki, > work on it and see how the cookie crumbles?. As long as there is a path of accountability as stated above, I am fine with setting up a wiki. Linking Fugal site is something that needs to be discussed between linuxaudio.org and Fugal, hence I feel that I am not in a position to give you a definite answer on that particular point... Best wishes, Ico From brad at sonaural.com Fri Dec 15 18:46:05 2006 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Fri Dec 15 18:46:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Wiki (Was: Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> Message-ID: <458333BD.4040008@sonaural.com> ico@vt.edu wrote: > >>> I know for sure that this particular thing bothers only you >> ;), not so sure. >> >> The problem is, I don't believe in a documentation system where you >> have to register; I've seen too many that gets updated so very >> infrequent. I don't believe that registration is a deterrent to contribution. > And I do appreciate your stance. However, please note that your statements have > provided plenty of "I"s, but no "We"s. Hence, I would like to hear what others > have to say about this. I think it's a no-brainer that the wiki must be configured so that people have to register. What's hard about registering? You do it once, firefox takes care of your password and your done. We have several wikis where we did not have registration and graffiti was horrible. With registration, it's manageable. (right, you still get it!) >> My answer was that the user does this himself. Each time the user >> visits the wiki, if there is spam there, he reverts it to a previous >> revision. Why have this mess in the first place? The admin will have enough problems and the users should be in the position of adding content, not fixing problems. >> We can have a feed, like Fugal, that notifies us of updates; if >> someone spams we'll know immediately, but nevertheless, a user is >> fully capable of reverting to a previous revision; it's not like a >> wiki is unknown territory. > > My inbox is alredy a mess. The last thing I need is another mess waiting to > happen to flood my inbox asking extra time from me which I already have too > little of. The only reason I am replying to this topic so verbosely is because: > > 1) I am very much interested in this particular topic and > 2) it is the end of semester here and I can actually afford to reply > > Again, if you volunteer to maintain this overhead (either by organizing a > dedicated 0-day response team who will manage this or whichever other way you > wish to do that in order to ensure that the University server does not host > Viagra adds and other messages of questionable nature), I will gladly provide > space for such a Wiki. "Users will take care of it" does not cut it in the real > world because: > > 1) It creates a paradoxal situation where no one is responsible for misuse, > meaning linuxaudio.org will be responsible and subsequently may lose its right > to be hosted by a University for free > 2) Does not guarrantee 0-day response agreed. Also, you'll get more than Viagra ads! > Both of these points can be summarized to "the model yields no structure one can > uphold when facing circumstances which require accountability." > >> There should be no reason to maintain a wiki in the common sense, as >> far as I believe. >> >>> on behalf of linuxaudio.org I am inclined to make an offer to the >>> Linux audio community that favors majority >> I understand your position, but also understand my disbelief. I can >> understand that people don't want spam, but I only see less >> contributors with such a scheme. Again, I don't think registering will deter those who want to contribute. On the flip side, w/o registering opens up a whole lot of potential vandalism. >>> I can almost guarantee it that Wikipedia will decline a full-blown >>> documentation page simply because Linux audio software, just as any other >>> software is a moving target which may radically change, making >> documentation >>> outdated, and/or become deprecated, making respective wiki pages obsolete, >>> and as such should not be a part of an online encyclopedia. >> I'm not so sure about my stance on wikipedia and I'd like to hear what >> other people feel. I know that I will back such an effort if people >> want it and of course, contribute. I don't know why wikipedia would deny the proposal because of information changing. Why don't we ask them. Wikipedia is a great place to do this because of it's visibility. >>> as long as we propose fragmentation of the humble Linux audio scene >>> because of our hard-line stands/preferences [..] we will be spending >>> immense amounts of time and effort reinventing the wheel. >> It's more a fact. If you make a registration required wiki, someone >> WILL make a non registration required wiki. I don't know why. however, if that's the case, that's ok. One will win out. And, if two or three do, it'll be because they offer the people slightly different value. > > Again, fine. If that is what the community wants, we shall have it. I've made > my proposal under the terms which were the best I could offer. My proposal is > non-coercive nor definite, it is simply the best what linuxaudio.org could > offer. Now, it is up to you and the rest of the community to decide what you > wish to do about this. > brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From nedko at arnaudov.name Fri Dec 15 20:58:16 2006 From: nedko at arnaudov.name (Nedko Arnaudov) Date: Fri Dec 15 20:58:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Wiki In-Reply-To: <458333BD.4040008@sonaural.com> (Brad Fuller's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:46:05 -0800") References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> <458333BD.4040008@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <87y7p8lhzb.fsf@arnaudov.name> Personally I agree with Esben Stien, that not requiring registration is better. I beleive that we can manage spam. If we fail - registration can be enabled. If both wikis (one requiring and one not requiring registration) exist I'd prefer the linuxauido.org one, because having common place is more important that registration barrier. If we end with one not requiring registration it will be good option to have a bot posting messages about changes in wiki to irc. If there is a rss feed I have ready for use solution - a supybot that can be used. -- Nedko Arnaudov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061216/578cdd16/attachment-0001.bin From jayv at synth.net Fri Dec 15 21:03:37 2006 From: jayv at synth.net (Jay Vaughan) Date: Fri Dec 15 21:04:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> Message-ID: >We simply must understand that as long as we propose fragmentation of the >humble Linux audio scene because of our hard-line stands/preferences (most >of whose impact is superficial at best while creating an unreasonable amount >of overhead), we will be spending immense amounts of time and effort >reinventing the wheel. This fact alone should make any sane person cry from >frustration. > fragmentation is not the isssue. implementation is the issue, and on that plane is reality an issue. working hardware is the only metric. those that do, implement. -- ; Jay Vaughan From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Dec 15 21:05:51 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri Dec 15 21:06:28 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> Message-ID: <1166234751.8255.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 01:11 +0100, Esben Stien wrote: > My answer was that the user does this himself. Each time the user > visits the wiki, if there is spam there, he reverts it to a previous > revision. this gets really tedious when the last 23 revisions are all spam. this happens, really. > We can have a feed, like Fugal, that notifies us of updates; if > someone spams we'll know immediately, so now you're asking a limited set of people who get update notifications to do the work rather than asking individual people to register? ever since browsers started managing passwords, its only the registration phase that is a pain. its small and its one-time. From jordan at jdnash.org Fri Dec 15 23:07:19 2006 From: jordan at jdnash.org (Jordan) Date: Fri Dec 15 23:15:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Sombody had to do it In-Reply-To: <20061215215343.B6A9E4E3B504@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061215215343.B6A9E4E3B504@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <61705.71.246.132.148.1166242039.squirrel@jdnash.org> You did a really nice job on it. It may be a limitation of MIDI, but it there any way to make some of those attacks (the beginning of a note) soft? It sounds really hard/harsh otherwise. "Silent Night" should have a really smooth feel to it. ------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:59:46 +0000 From: Folderol Subject: [linux-audio-user] Sombody had to do it To: linux-audio-user@music.columbia.edu Message-ID: <20061215195946.7b8612d5@general> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ... but why did it have to be me? :) It's that time of year isn't it? So that's my excuse. This is a slightly different arrangement of a well known melody. http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Silent_Night.ogg -- Will J G From robin at gareus.org Fri Dec 15 23:37:06 2006 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Fri Dec 15 23:37:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Wiki (Was: Attracting more Linux audio developers) In-Reply-To: <458333BD.4040008@sonaural.com> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> <458333BD.4040008@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <458377F0.20506@gareus.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brad Fuller wrote: > ico@vt.edu wrote: [..] > What's hard about registering? You do it once, > firefox takes care of your password and your done. AFAIR the discussion got started due to requiring a valid email address for registration. username/password/privacy is a different issue. > > Again, I don't think registering will deter those who want to > contribute. On the flip side, w/o registering opens up a whole lot of > potential vandalism. agreed. There are alternatives but no quick'N'easy(TM) solution in sight. I don't want to return to the auth-discussion. Can I sum it up as: We can manage to set up a simple but effective system to: - - restrict [media] upload and admin-capabilities to trusted users (editors, LAD, LAU members, sign off strategy, ..) - - limit anonymous edits to a minimal amount of SPAM while not annoying anon. users. this will be an ongoing battle and we can discuss, experiment and improve.. (CAPTCHA, timed IP locks, limit # of pages per user,...) > I don't know why wikipedia would deny the proposal because of > information changing. Why don't we ask them. > > Wikipedia is a great place to do this because of it's visibility. > exactly. but most of the wikipedia entries are rather patchy with details! A framework like arxiv.org is not really suitable for linuxaudio.org either. although it would be nice if doc.linuxaudio.org will provide SGML & docbook processing capabilities. IMO diversity is a good thing. and I'd be surprised it linuxaudio will only fragment to into 2 or 3 wiki installations worldwide! interwiki and perma-links are already quite common, and with feeds, data import/export plugins, etc information spreads. nevertheless linuxaudio.org should become the site of choice for linux sound collaboration and claim some authority! Let's focus on user interface and templates. democracy and taste won't match: I'll vote for a two column layout + a (static/fixed?) top bar. (similar to wikipedia). It would be nice if there were linuxaudio color & icon themes, but that's for later.. in the "menu column": list a handful of (constant) links + wiki-commands; and a generated list of "quick-links" related to the current page (category, tags,...) The "main column" displays either a custom wiki page (doc.linuxaudio.) or (for apps.linuxaudio.org) a fixed-layout, generated from Meta-data: ie: info-pages, category lists. IMO both doc.. and apps.. should make use of the same category system and maybe even share the page-source for the title+abstract page. - -> the apps.. will be a side product of doc.. here's a set of meta-tags that each doc. would need to provide on it's title page: 1 req: TXT: title / name 2 req: TXT: description / abstract 3 opt: TXT: Author 4 opt: URL: screenshot, icon, banner 5 opt: TXT: version_string, release_date 6 opt: URL: source_repository (cvs,svn,darcs,.. URI) 7 opt: URL: website 8 req: TAG: one or more category tag(s). discuss: 1. use wiki page name as title 3. also author email, license, etc. ? 4. allow multiple screenshots? screenshot_00, screenshot_01,..?? videos? 7. maybe use different URLs for: url_web, url_doc, url_src, url_other I vote for a minimal set of meta info: 1,2,4,8 (+7) - other key&values can get very specific and result in possibly inconsistent assignments -> use custom wiki pages. For properly marked up documentation there's docbook! a couple of ideas to generate the app listing: - - generate lists with and without screenshots/banners/logos/abstract - - each entry has at least a title and a link to doc.linuxaudio.org -> wiki-title-page - - optionally link directly to web-page, documentation or download ?? - - present a "related category" link list in the menu-column. - - merge (sub-)categories in view. - - browse or search * search for a keyword * selecting multiple tags from a tag-cloud. * pager: next/prev, related categories, history trace, breadcrumbs I suggest to use twiki, mediawiki or dokuwiki for the job. I don't think that wordpress will do as nice; it could. but in that case, it should become blog.linuxaudio.org. There are certainly many possible implementations: we should consider stability & robustness; long live @ low maintenance; flexibility & speed; KISS. personally I've had good experience with dokuwiki. OTOH. mediawiki will allow copy and paste to wikipedia, but we usually want inter-wiki links rather than dup entries. aaah and the above mentioned top-bar can connect the different *.linuxaudio.org sites, hold a title, banner, drop-down menu,... you name it! keep up the relentless flow of discussion and nourish the advocatus diaboli in you. if your anger is not yet focused, go and play your neighbors a series of tritoni for half an hour. I'm sure we can come up with with a clean layout and icons for visualizing meta-information after that. one could go as far as to assign symbols to major-categories or design a children's look&feel template for the title page(s). It'd be cool to have another prototype wiki by January, but the final product should aim for quality and it's yet too early to set a deadline. maybe the LAC2007 can provide a platform for discussion and promotion. #robin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFg3fweVUk8U+VK0IRAroKAJ9+HhVq1FoMxB020YYOds/skZ5PggCguioF wVoE/ksHnNtze2S8Kqm+n04= =i009 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sat Dec 16 05:14:21 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Sat Dec 16 05:14:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061215181000.8EB094E23A35@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061215181000.8EB094E23A35@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Esben Stien: > >> we agree? > >No;). > >As long as there is no solution to combine not registering and >registering, there will at least be two wikis'. Yes, I think so too. Registering is too much work. What happens when I must register to something, I completely forget what I was doing while waiting for the confirmation mail. From rob at curates-egg.org Sat Dec 16 05:18:45 2006 From: rob at curates-egg.org (rob) Date: Sat Dec 16 05:20:38 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Wiki In-Reply-To: <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> References: <004b01c7207a$5ef211d0$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <87hcvwu2cj.fsf@esben-stien.name> <1166223787.458329ab1e293@webmail.vt.edu> Message-ID: <4583C805.1000200@curates-egg.org> ico@vt.edu wrote: > And I do appreciate your stance. However, please note that your statements have > provided plenty of "I"s, but no "We"s. Hence, I would like to hear what others > have to say about this. > I have no idealogical opposition to registration - just too many accounts on too many systems to be able to remember them all. If there's one LAU wiki, I'll probably bookmark it in my 'safe' browser and rely on cookies. If it fragments, I doubt I'll update any documentation. cheers R From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Sat Dec 16 05:29:36 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Sat Dec 16 05:29:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061215193015.756BE4E2EC06@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061215193015.756BE4E2EC06@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: >> As long as there is no solution to combine not registering and >> registering, there will at least be two wikis'. > >Well, so be it. Please correct me if I am wrong, but so far I know for >sure >that this particular thing bothers only you, and I've not gotten a clear >answer whether you would be willing to put in time to maintain such a >potential spamfest of a Wiki. Hence, on behalf of linuxaudio.org I am >inclined to make an offer to the Linux audio community that favors >majority >(again, please correct me if I am wrong). Why not use one of those generated pictures things? >We simply must understand that as long as we propose fragmentation of the >humble Linux audio scene because of our hard-line stands/preferences >(most >of whose impact is superficial at best while creating an unreasonable >amount >of overhead), we will be spending immense amounts of time and effort >reinventing the wheel. This fact alone should make any sane person cry >from >frustration. Well, I'll use linuxaudio.org, no matter what you do. But I don't understand the need for registration. If spam takes over, well, then it can be introduced later. From folderol at ukfsn.org Sat Dec 16 10:05:26 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Sat Dec 16 10:05:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: New web site - new track In-Reply-To: References: <20061017111855.1CDA137BED96@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20061216150526.699bc1a2@general> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:16:20 +0100 (CET) "Kjetil S. Matheussen" wrote: > > yves@jazzcomputer.org: > > > > Le 16 Oct ? 21:26, Folderol ecrivait: > > > >> I'll be looking out for it :) > > > > > > http://download.jazzcomputer.org/picklejar/breathes3.ogg :) > > It's greatly modified, and gives and idea about how one of Patrick > > Shirkey's screenshots sound like :). > > Nice song. Good work. :-) Gets better every time I hear it. Definitely a 'keeper' for me! -- Will J G From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Sat Dec 16 11:16:11 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Sat Dec 16 11:07:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] This list In-Reply-To: <200612142202.22079.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> References: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> <200612142202.22079.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> Message-ID: <45841BCB.3060609@woh.rr.com> Nigel Henry wrote: >Hi Dave. Thanks for sharing. I like the Blues, and "HamhoundCrave" comes over >really well, but the best one for me is "TogetherAtTheEndOfThe World". The >rhythm is great, and the feeling in the vocals comes through really well. A >great tune with everything put into it, no holding back. > Hi Nigel, Thanks for listening, I appreciate it. "Together At The End Of The World" was a lot of fun to write, it's still a favorite song. Btw, the synths and drums and all from hardware. At that time I owned a variety of synths, including a Yamaha TX16w with a fantastic sampled drum set. I loved hardware synths then, the studio also included a Korg EX8000, two Yamaha TX802 FM synths, a TX81Z, an Ensoniq Mirage, a Roland MKS70 (a lovely hybrid synth), and various Yamaha utility boxes (MEP4, MCS2, MJC8). Sometimes I wish I still had some of those boxes, but I certainly don't miss their combined weight. The MIDI software was Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Gold. Best regards, dp From downerczx at yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 13:13:59 2006 From: downerczx at yahoo.com (DCZX) Date: Sat Dec 16 13:14:43 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Interview with SuSE JackLab Creator Message-ID: <20061216181359.13261.qmail@web36807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On Linux Rock Star, we have a new interview up with SuSE JackLab Creator, Michael Bohle. Pretty interesting stuff. Part I is out and Part II will be up in a little while. thanks. http://www.linuxrockstar.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From folderol at ukfsn.org Sat Dec 16 17:17:20 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Sat Dec 16 17:23:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] This list In-Reply-To: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> References: <45819E09.5060503@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20061216221720.702d8705@general> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:55:05 -0500 Dave Phillips wrote: > is getting 'way too serious, so : > > http://www.archive.org/details/HamhoundCrave > > http://www.archive.org/details/TogetherAtTheEndOfTheWorld > > http://www.archive.org/details/NotSoTough > > Blasts from my past, music recorded to 4-track in the early 1990s. > Remastered with Ardour2 and edited with ReZound. > > Best, > > dp In a word, nice. Oh, that was 4 words. No, 10. Err... -- Will J G From folderol at ukfsn.org Sat Dec 16 17:24:02 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Sat Dec 16 17:29:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Sombody had to do it In-Reply-To: <61705.71.246.132.148.1166242039.squirrel@jdnash.org> References: <20061215215343.B6A9E4E3B504@music.columbia.edu> <61705.71.246.132.148.1166242039.squirrel@jdnash.org> Message-ID: <20061216222402.1cedff3b@general> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:07:19 -0500 (EST) "Jordan" wrote: > You did a really nice job on it. Thanks :) > It may be a limitation of MIDI, but it there any way to make some of those > attacks (the beginning of a note) soft? It sounds really hard/harsh > otherwise. "Silent Night" should have a really smooth feel to it. This is always a matter of taste really. I deliberately wanted to take the soft edge off, as sometimes I think people smooth this melody out till it's nothing by mush. However it is difficult balance to get right and the instrument I used with the 'bite' is fairly consistent for the whole piece, although there is a sort of acoustic illusion that makes it seem to vary. -- Will J G From ka1iic at prexar.com Sat Dec 16 19:38:31 2006 From: ka1iic at prexar.com (Vince Werber) Date: Sat Dec 16 18:35:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Sombody had to do it In-Reply-To: <20061216222402.1cedff3b@general> References: <20061215215343.B6A9E4E3B504@music.columbia.edu> <61705.71.246.132.148.1166242039.squirrel@jdnash.org> <20061216222402.1cedff3b@general> Message-ID: As a Traditionalist in matters I found the recording very tastefully done and thank you and merry Christmas vince On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, Folderol wrote: > On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:07:19 -0500 (EST) > "Jordan" wrote: > >> You did a really nice job on it. > > Thanks :) > >> It may be a limitation of MIDI, but it there any way to make some of those >> attacks (the beginning of a note) soft? It sounds really hard/harsh >> otherwise. "Silent Night" should have a really smooth feel to it. > > This is always a matter of taste really. I deliberately wanted to take > the soft edge off, as sometimes I think people smooth this melody out > till it's nothing by mush. However it is difficult balance to get right > and the instrument I used with the 'bite' is fairly consistent for the > whole piece, although there is a sort of acoustic illusion that > makes it seem to vary. > > -- > Will J G > From chris at mccormick.cx Sat Dec 16 23:21:58 2006 From: chris at mccormick.cx (Chris McCormick) Date: Sat Dec 16 23:39:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <200612151637.10641.lau@kudla.org> References: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> <200612151637.10641.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20061217042158.GB12814@mccormick.cx> On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 04:37:10PM -0500, Rob wrote: > On Friday 15 December 2006 09:05, Jay Vaughan wrote: > > The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any USB device > > that you want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x > > supports, works: > > Wow, when that thing comes out, I might have to get me a GP2X. > Chris McCormick's Pd port looks pretty sweet to me as well.... > maybe sweeter than the "real" Pd. Well, I don't know about that. It's a frankenstein version of the real Pd (PDa thanks to G?enter Geiger) from a couple of versions ago, with all floats turned into fixed-point, compiled by myself with all libs statically linked in and a few internal Pd types that just don't seem to work correctly. That said it's pretty good for wicked hand held generative jams. My group has used it in live performance once and it was good fun. Best, Chris. ------------------- chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx From lau at ballen.fastmail.fm Sun Dec 17 06:53:43 2006 From: lau at ballen.fastmail.fm (Bill Allen) Date: Sun Dec 17 06:54:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <45852FC7.4080204@ballen.fastmail.fm> Paul Winkler wrote: > Progress: > The free (beer) soundfont from > http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm > is quite usable, much better than the Roland sounds I found at > hammersound. I'm gonna try the 80 MB version too, it's only $5 US. > > -PW > > That's the best sounding one that I've found. I did find that I had to tweak the tuning a bit to get it to sound right with other soundfonts and synths. Bill From parumi at iua.upf.edu Sun Dec 17 12:09:09 2006 From: parumi at iua.upf.edu (Pau Arumi) Date: Sun Dec 17 12:09:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] /dev/raw1394 permissions. Using firewire interface Focusrite Saffire Message-ID: <458579B5.8010105@iua.upf.edu> Hello, I've just bought a Focusrite Saffire LE firewire audio interface (323? at alfasoni.com) and it works fine with freebob. So far I'm very happy with audio quality and line/mics connectivity (also having a hardware monitoring tool for linux would be great, but not crucial for me) After updating the jack version so it have the freebob driver, I start jackd -d freebob and I get: Freebob using Firewire port 0, node -1 Ieee1394Service::initialize: Could not get 1394 handle: Permission denied Is ieee1394 and raw1394 driver loaded? Fatal (devicemanager.cpp)[68] initialize: Could not initialize Ieee1349Service object Fatal (freebob.cpp)[69] freebob_new_handle: Could not initialize device manager FreeBoB ERR: FREEBOB: Error creating virtual device That's because a normal user does not have access to raw1394 $ ls -l /dev/raw1394 crw-rw---- 1 root disk 171, 0 2006-12-17 16:10 /dev/raw1394 Doing $ sudo chmod o+rw /dev/raw1394 solves the problem. However after a new reboot the permissions have been reset. I'm running ubuntu feisty (testing) $ uname -a Linux macbook 2.6.19-7-generic #2 SMP Mon Dec 4 16:46:19 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux So what is the supposed way to work with firewire? Maybe changing raw1394 group ownership to audio? Thanks, Pau -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From steve at hassard.net Sun Dec 17 12:35:32 2006 From: steve at hassard.net (Stephen Hassard) Date: Sun Dec 17 12:35:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] /dev/raw1394 permissions. Using firewire interface Focusrite Saffire In-Reply-To: <458579B5.8010105@iua.upf.edu> References: <458579B5.8010105@iua.upf.edu> Message-ID: <45857FE4.1020903@hassard.net> Pau Arumi wrote: > That's because a normal user does not have access to raw1394 > $ ls -l /dev/raw1394 > crw-rw---- 1 root disk 171, 0 2006-12-17 16:10 /dev/raw1394 > > Doing > $ sudo chmod o+rw /dev/raw1394 > solves the problem. However after a new reboot the permissions have been > reset. > > So what is the supposed way to work with firewire? > Maybe changing raw1394 group ownership to audio? The easiest way to fix this permanently would be to add your user to the 'disk' group. later, Steve From nomoa at wanadoo.fr Sun Dec 17 12:56:29 2006 From: nomoa at wanadoo.fr (David Causse) Date: Sun Dec 17 13:07:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: /dev/raw1394 permissions. Using firewire interface Focusrite Saffire In-Reply-To: <458579B5.8010105@iua.upf.edu> References: <458579B5.8010105@iua.upf.edu> Message-ID: <20061217175629.GA9859@localdomain> On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 06:09:09PM +0100, Pau Arumi wrote: > [...] > > So what is the supposed way to work with firewire? > Maybe changing raw1394 group ownership to audio? As your devices are regenerated each reboot by udev if you change attributes with common unix command your changes won't be persistant. You will have to change the udev rules. The file to modify is usually : /etc/udev/permissions.rules. look for the line : KERNEL=="raw1394", GROUP="audio" and change GROUP="disk" to "video" or "audio" reload udev : # /etc/init.d/udev restart reload raw1394 device : # rmmod raw1394 && modprobe raw1394 Regards, David. From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 17 13:16:02 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Sun Dec 17 13:19:36 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] lashd wows, fst and qsynth In-Reply-To: <4581E577.7080805@rncbc.org> References: <4581B1E2.9020104@sbcglobal.net> <4581E577.7080805@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <45858962.6010306@sbcglobal.net> Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > Brian Dunn wrote: >> Another issue is qsynth. I'm running a lash enabled fluidsynth that >> works correctly, (but it doesn't rename itself in lash so you get this >> ugly random name) but when i use qsynth it doesn't join lash. :( >> >> versions: >> >> qsynth --version >> Qt: 3.3.6 >> qsynth: 0.2.5 >> >> fluidsynth --version >> FluidSynth 1.0.7 >> > > AFAICT qsynth is not lash enabled. Is there a real need for it? I can > only find the one for jack/alsa connections recall, for which I've been > using qjackctl patchbay since its very own inception ;) FWIW all other > qsynth state is preserved as its own, as usual. > > However, if there's any sufficient demand for it, I believe some lash > enabling patch to qsynth is not that really hard to put up. Someone > could just borrow the fluidsynth's one and bring it to me? > > Cheers. I was totally mixed up about what qsynth is. I assumed qsynth was to fluidsynth as qjackctl is to jackd, and therefore if I had a lash enabled fluidsynth, the qsynth would get a lashing. A little googling for the fluidsynth lash patch came up nata. I'll did a little deeper and get back to you. From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 17 13:24:36 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Sun Dec 17 13:29:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <45858B64.3010106@sbcglobal.net> Paul Winkler wrote: > what are your favorite piano samples that work well with linux > tools (fluidsynth, linuxsampler,...)? > > I've been using qsynth and making do with some Roland samples I got > from hammersound.net , but they're not all that great. > > How's the stuff from pianosounds.com ? > > -- > > Paul Winkler > http://www.slinkp.com > Have you tried mda-piano? It's a freewhere vst, not a a sample set, but to my (possibly naive) ear it sounds excellent. http://www.pluginspot.com/documents/30.html From christhemonkey at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 15:02:07 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Sun Dec 17 15:02:49 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Pd produces many Xruns Message-ID: <79eea87e0612171202i6ec22fbpd2d41c281cde616b@mail.gmail.com> Evening list, Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the sound crackles accordingly. Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. Any help much appreciated. Chris From lt at westnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:54:55 2006 From: lt at westnet.com (Larry Troxler) Date: Sun Dec 17 16:02:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Swami 0.9.2 - can't save! (DeMuDi 1.2) Message-ID: <4585AE9F.9000202@westnet.com> I'm running swami on a fresh DeMuDi 1.2 installation. When I choose "Save" or "Save As" from the file menu, nothing happens. Does anyone have an answer, by any chance? Larry From lt at westnet.com Sun Dec 17 16:43:50 2006 From: lt at westnet.com (Larry Troxler) Date: Sun Dec 17 16:44:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Swami 0.9.2 - can't save! (DeMuDi 1.2) In-Reply-To: <4585AE9F.9000202@westnet.com> References: <4585AE9F.9000202@westnet.com> Message-ID: <4585BA16.7030008@westnet.com> Larry Troxler wrote: > I'm running swami on a fresh DeMuDi 1.2 installation. When I choose > "Save" or "Save As" from the file menu, nothing happens. > > Does anyone have an answer, by any chance? > > Larry > Solved: You need to first select a soundfont in the tree. Larry From mark at ehle.homelinux.org Sun Dec 17 18:49:02 2006 From: mark at ehle.homelinux.org (mark@ehle.homelinux.org) Date: Sun Dec 17 18:49:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW Message-ID: <20061217184902.4i4459daeco8sk0o@markehle.net> Hello, all - I am a brand-new member to this list. I want to thank you all right off the bat for providing this list. I am in the process of putting together a personal music production studio. I am a former professional musician who changed careers to computers a number of years back and I would like to get back into music and digital recording as a sideline/hobby. I need some recommendations as to which components to use in a Linux-based DAW. I have a Delta 1010 on the way, and would like recommendations on parts (motherboard / CPU / memory / drives / distro) that would make a machine that I would not have to wish later on that I had bought something else. My main use for the system would be recording my Brass Quintet and my piano/keyboard musings (the hobby part) and possibly live recoding work (the sideline part). Seems to me that there would be some money to be made by recording events and providing Cd's for sale immediately after, as well as MP3's online. Forgive me if this information is in the archives somewhere. I looked, and could not find something that recommended all components of a complete system. If this info is already on the net somewhere, please point me the way. Also - where I work, we are heavy into iSCSI storage area networks. Has anybody ever used one of these (like maybe, openfiler) for the storage of music data? Thanks again so much, Mark in Michigan From lt at westnet.com Sun Dec 17 19:37:40 2006 From: lt at westnet.com (Larry Troxler) Date: Sun Dec 17 19:39:00 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] qjackctl patchbay - individual ports of a client? Message-ID: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> It seems that the qjackctl patchbay only works with clients as a whole - you cannot selectively connect individual ports within a client. I'd just like to verify that this is really true. If the connections in the "Connections" dialog were saved as a configuration file, that would help, but I think that this is not the case. The reason for this question is that it seems that pd cannot generate multiple jack clients, and I want to route more than one qsynth engine into it. In the meantime, I am setting up scripts that use jack_connect and aconnect, but this is a bit tedious. I'm using DeMuDi 1.2 (I don't know why I waited so long to try it!) So, if anyone has suggestions or clarifications, I'd be very grateful. Thanks as always to the list members for their unfailing help and suggestions. Larry From jack.oquin at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 20:20:44 2006 From: jack.oquin at gmail.com (Jack O'Quin) Date: Sun Dec 17 20:21:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] qjackctl patchbay - individual ports of a client? In-Reply-To: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> References: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> Message-ID: On 12/17/06, Larry Troxler wrote: > It seems that the qjackctl patchbay only works with clients as a whole - > you cannot selectively connect individual ports within a client. I'd > just like to verify that this is really true. Not true. In the QJC connections window, if you click on the (+) next to a client, it will expand a display of all its input or output ports. These can be connected or disconnected individually. > If the connections in the "Connections" dialog were saved as a > configuration file, that would help, but I think that this is not the case. The QJC patchbay may be able to do what you want. Perhaps others can explain how, I am not up on its use. -- joq From fons at kokkinizita.net Sun Dec 17 20:35:09 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sun Dec 17 20:32:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] qjackctl patchbay - individual ports of a client? In-Reply-To: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> References: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> Message-ID: <20061218013509.GA5879@linux-1.site> On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:37:40PM -0500, Larry Troxler wrote: > It seems that the qjackctl patchbay only works with clients as a whole - > you cannot selectively connect individual ports within a client. I'd > just like to verify that this is really true. No, it can connect individual ports, but the required incantations are not very intuitive. I always forget the procedure so I never use it. > If the connections in the "Connections" dialog were saved as a > configuration file, that would help, but I think that this is not the case. There is command line app that provides this, called jsnap. Just use this together with qjackctl instead of the patchbay. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From fons at kokkinizita.net Sun Dec 17 20:37:48 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sun Dec 17 20:34:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] qjackctl patchbay - individual ports of a client? In-Reply-To: References: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> Message-ID: <20061218013748.GB5879@linux-1.site> On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:20:44PM -0600, Jack O'Quin wrote: > The QJC patchbay may be able to do what you want. Perhaps others > can explain how, I am not up on its use. As I understood it, the OP's question was about the patchbay, not the connection window. -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From hcengar at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 22:19:23 2006 From: hcengar at gmail.com (Hector Centeno) Date: Sun Dec 17 22:19:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: <79eea87e0612171202i6ec22fbpd2d41c281cde616b@mail.gmail.com> References: <79eea87e0612171202i6ec22fbpd2d41c281cde616b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <695e1a650612171919r55d8f3a3pecc1491d3d4ab2bb@mail.gmail.com> Hi Chris, The way to avoid this is to run PD with the -rt flag so it runs in realtime. If you are still getting the xruns then you can try increasing PD's priority using: chrt -f -p 50 `pidof "pd"` 50 is the priority that works for me, but you might have to experiment with different numbers. I hope this information helps (I'm using Ubuntu Edgy too). Hector On 12/17/06, chris beagles wrote: > Evening list, > > Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled > the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: > > If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I > then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the > sound crackles accordingly. > Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. > > This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd > for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. > > I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. > If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > Any help much appreciated. > > Chris > From x37v.alex at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 22:32:47 2006 From: x37v.alex at gmail.com (Alex) Date: Sun Dec 17 22:33:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] rme hammerfall dsp multiface firmware downgrade Message-ID: does anyone here have the windows software that downgrades the firmware of the multiface so that it can be used with linux? Everything I see says I need version 10, and I see people pointing to the drivers archive on rme's site, but i only see version 11 on there, am I missing something? thanks, Alex From plutek at infinity.net Sun Dec 17 22:46:09 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Sun Dec 17 22:46:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader Message-ID: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> greetings! following up on my recent (unanswered) question about a timecode generator, i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a SMPTE timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the corresponding numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. an ideal solution would be one implemented as either a ladspa plugin, which can be patched into the track (i.e. in ardour) containing the timecode, or a small jack utility which can be connected to either incoming SMPTE signal or a playback track via i.e. the qjackctl connect window. i would like to be able to run multiple instances of such software, to compare timecode in various audio streams. do any of you know of the existence of any such software? alternately, does anyone out there have the ability to program such a thing? i would be willing to donate to such a cause. perhaps other are looking for this sort of thing as well? it would surely be a big step forward in our ability to work with film and video -- those folks can't deal with MTC. .pltk. From markknecht at gmail.com Sun Dec 17 22:51:48 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Sun Dec 17 22:51:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] rme hammerfall dsp multiface firmware downgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612171951p2a7f86ache8b19802461aadbe@mail.gmail.com> Did you look on the driver archive page? http://www.rme-audio.com/english/download/drivers_archive.htm Hope this helps, Mark On 12/17/06, Alex wrote: > does anyone here have the windows software that downgrades the > firmware of the multiface so that it can be used with linux? > Everything I see says I need version 10, and I see people pointing to > the drivers archive on rme's site, but i only see version 11 on there, > am I missing something? > > thanks, > Alex > From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Mon Dec 18 02:41:02 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Mon Dec 18 02:41:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: <20061218013212.CA09A4F12D87@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061218013212.CA09A4F12D87@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: "chris beagles": > > Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled > the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: > > If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I > then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the > sound crackles accordingly. > Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. > > This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd > for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. > > I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. > If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > Any help much appreciated. > Did you start pd with the "-rt" switch? In case not, that will help. (PS. Always add the terminal switches you start a program with when asking for help) From _ at whats-your.name Mon Dec 18 02:57:58 2006 From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen) Date: Mon Dec 18 02:58:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: References: <20061218013212.CA09A4F12D87@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20061218075758.GE1659@replic.net> On Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 08:41:02AM +0100, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > "chris beagles": > > > >Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled > >the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: > > > >If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I > >then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the > >sound crackles accordingly. > >Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. > > > >This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd > >for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. > > > >I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. > >If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > > >Any help much appreciated. try the callback-driven audio scheduler in PD's devel_0_39 CVS branch. also try the desiredata branch, which has decoupled the GUI and DSP code.. > > > > Did you start pd with the "-rt" switch? In case not, that will help. > > (PS. Always add the terminal switches you start a program with when asking for help) > From rob at curates-egg.org Mon Dec 18 03:41:31 2006 From: rob at curates-egg.org (rob) Date: Mon Dec 18 03:43:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW In-Reply-To: <20061217184902.4i4459daeco8sk0o@markehle.net> References: <20061217184902.4i4459daeco8sk0o@markehle.net> Message-ID: <4586543B.5010702@curates-egg.org> mark@ehle.homelinux.org wrote: > I have a Delta 1010 on the way, and would like recommendations on > parts (motherboard / CPU / memory / drives / distro) that would make a > machine that I would not have to wish later on that I had bought > something else. My main use for the system would be recording my Brass > Quintet and my piano/keyboard musings (the hobby part) and possibly > live recoding work (the sideline part). Seems to me that there would > be some money to be made by recording events and providing Cd's for > sale immediately after, as well as MP3's online. Hi Mark I recently built a machine for similar purposes. Although unfinished (I still have not transferred my Delta1010 from my current box), I can find no issues that would indicate that it will not work (it is working with an old Ensoniq card reliably at 8ms round-trip - which seems to be the best the card can manage). I chose Intel this time around - primarily as a result of their having released either open-source drivers or the information required for the community to help themselves. So, I sourced an Intel D945GNTL ATX motherboard (ICH7 chipset, integrated sound/video, SATA II), coupled with a Pentium D945 (dual core 3.4GHz), and (initially) 1Gb DDR667 MHz RAM. HTH Rob From spacepluk at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 03:44:48 2006 From: spacepluk at gmail.com (Oscar) Date: Mon Dec 18 03:44:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers In-Reply-To: <20061217042158.GB12814@mccormick.cx> References: <200612131539.01781.lau@kudla.org> <200612151637.10641.lau@kudla.org> <20061217042158.GB12814@mccormick.cx> Message-ID: <8c009b890612180044o139397a1td921dc6db6544acf@mail.gmail.com> Hi everybody, I've been lurking around for a time and this is my first post in the list. English is not my mother language so please don't be so hard with me if I look too rude :) I just don't understand people who says that registering in a site (wiki or whatever) is too much work... I think It's obvious that cleaning spam by hand is way more work than simply fulfilling a form with some personal data "once". Of course we'll lose some anonymous edits but we gain tidiness and precious time we can spent on real work. OTOH I don't think there are enough linux audio users at this time to gain from anonymous edits. There are more spammers for sure... Just my two cents. Saludosss -- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Mon Dec 18 04:00:14 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Mon Dec 18 04:01:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: <20061218084512.AE5C04F31ECF@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061218084512.AE5C04F31ECF@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: carmen: > > On Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 08:41:02AM +0100, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: >> >> "chris beagles": >>> >>> Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled >>> the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: >>> >>> If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I >>> then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the >>> sound crackles accordingly. >>> Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. >>> >>> This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd >>> for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. >>> >>> I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. >>> If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > > >>> >>> Any help much appreciated. > > try the callback-driven audio scheduler in PD's devel_0_39 CVS branch. > also try the desiredata branch, which has decoupled the GUI and DSP > code.. > Isn't that a bad advice? Are any of those branches close to being somewhat stable? From d_baron at 012.net.il Mon Dec 18 04:26:31 2006 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Mon Dec 18 04:26:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Cell Phone RFI! Message-ID: <200612181126.31280.d_baron@012.net.il> Ever read that FCC certification on the back of your machine? Its interference to the outside world is below certain limits and it must accept all interference from the outside. Thanks a bunch. Things have come a long way. The DEC micro-computer I once worked at home on blacked out TV over a nice radius. I thought I was doing the world a service but awaited neighbors' complaints which thankfully never came. How about having a session ruined because someone is nearby with their cellular phone? I am not talking about their voice. Outgoing and incoming calls transmit a nice signature through the audio system, in the computer or external amps, etc. Every time. (Most of this equipment was designed/built before the overabundance of these toys.) I assume the computer stuff is grounded. A little battery guitar amp might not be. No matter, both get the calls. Had to kill the PA last night because the organizer would not kill his phone. What can one do about it? From lau at kudla.org Mon Dec 18 04:45:09 2006 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob) Date: Mon Dec 18 04:59:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Cell Phone RFI! In-Reply-To: <200612181126.31280.d_baron@012.net.il> References: <200612181126.31280.d_baron@012.net.il> Message-ID: <200612180445.09398.lau@kudla.org> On Monday 18 December 2006 04:26, David Baron wrote: > Ever read that FCC certification on the back of your machine? > Its interference to the outside world is below certain limits > and it must accept all interference from the outside. Thanks a > bunch. Even after 30 years of playing with FCC-certified toys, I've never understood that wording. Most computer equipment I've used has at least SOME shielding from outside RFI, which would seemingly violate the terms you're describing, which are from FCC Part 15. I've heard people claim that it was just intended to provide a shield to the manufacturers against consumer complaints when RFI did impair their use of the product, but I would think they'd have made that a little less cryptic. Has any audio or computer equipment manufacturer ever been fined by the FCC for NOT crashing when the neighbor turns on his blender (or when the guys in dark sunglasses sitting in the flower delivery truck in the parking lot turn on their computer-crashing ray gun?) This seems like one of those "Straight Dope" kind of questions, but I can't find a definitive answer. Rob From julien at c-lab.de Mon Dec 18 05:26:49 2006 From: julien at c-lab.de (Julien Claassen) Date: Mon Dec 18 05:27:12 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul! You could also try the ns_piano from naturalstudio: http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk Unfortunitely the soundfont is in an sfark or sfpack archive. It sounds a bit like the pub or living-room piano, soft and warm. The recording-quality is fine. Nothing for the big classical solo-parts, but still fine and free (as in beer :-)) Kindest regards Julien -------- Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles) ======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ======== http://ltsb.sourceforge.net the Linux TextBased Studio guide ======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: ======= http://www.juliencoder.de From rncbc at rncbc.org Mon Dec 18 05:50:19 2006 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Mon Dec 18 05:51:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] qjackctl patchbay - individual ports of a client? In-Reply-To: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> References: <4585E2D4.9090705@westnet.com> Message-ID: <18428.194.65.103.1.1166439019.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> On Mon, December 18, 2006 00:37, Larry Troxler wrote: > It seems that the qjackctl patchbay only works with clients as a whole - > you cannot selectively connect individual ports within a client. I'd just > like to verify that this is really true. > No it isn't. > If the connections in the "Connections" dialog were saved as a > configuration file, that would help, but I think that this is not the > case. > > The reason for this question is that it seems that pd cannot generate > multiple jack clients, and I want to route more than one qsynth engine > into it. > > In the meantime, I am setting up scripts that use jack_connect and > aconnect, but this is a bit tedious. I'm using DeMuDi 1.2 (I don't know > why I waited so long to try it!) > > > So, if anyone has suggestions or clarifications, I'd be very grateful. > QjackCtl patchbay can do what you want, I'm almost sure ;) Take note of this, when regarding your approach to the Patchbay model: 1) You group all _or_ just a sub-set of ports into a so called patchbay socket. A socket is an ordered group of all or some client ports. You can have as many sockets as you want pointing to the _same_ client, but it is worthwhile to note that having duplicated sockets for the same client with the very same set of ports is just redundant. 2) You declare to connect sockets, not clients. When two sockets are said connected, that is regarded as a declarative rule to automatiically connect those respective client-ports, one-by-one in that precise order. Again, the rule states for connecting ports, not just clients. 3) You're probably relying on the bare snapshot that is created while you set a new Patchbay definition. This snapshot is a rough and skewed image of your current client-port connections, that you _must_ regard just as a convenient starting point. Do not take it for granted OOTB. On most if not all situations you'll need to duplicate some sockets, trim each socket port list, reorder, and edit the connections between the intentional port groups (aka sockets). 4) You can edit and add sockets that refer to client/ports that aren't actually running, although it surely helps to get the client/port names right. Client names can be entered as regular expressions while you edit a socket definition. This is most convenient for matching those clients that have some pseudo-random number in their name suffixes (e.g xmms-jack pid). 5) The Patchbay rules are then only effective after you save and activate it. Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc@rncbc.org From ross at kallisti.us Mon Dec 18 11:05:31 2006 From: ross at kallisti.us (Ross Vandegrift) Date: Mon Dec 18 11:06:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Cell Phone RFI! In-Reply-To: <200612180445.09398.lau@kudla.org> References: <200612181126.31280.d_baron@012.net.il> <200612180445.09398.lau@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20061218160531.GA7668@kallisti.us> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 04:45:09AM -0500, Rob wrote: > On Monday 18 December 2006 04:26, David Baron wrote: > > Ever read that FCC certification on the back of your machine? > > Its interference to the outside world is below certain limits > > and it must accept all interference from the outside. Thanks a > > bunch. > > Even after 30 years of playing with FCC-certified toys, I've > never understood that wording. Most computer equipment I've > used has at least SOME shielding from outside RFI, which would > seemingly violate the terms you're describing, which are from > FCC Part 15. I've heard people claim that it was just intended > to provide a shield to the manufacturers against consumer > complaints when RFI did impair their use of the product, but I > would think they'd have made that a little less cryptic. I think you've misinterpreted it. It means that: a) This device does not produce RFI that causes problems with other devices, and, b) this device does not break if it receives RFI from other devices It's basically trying to say that the device's functionality is neutral with respect to radio devices, even through it does produce some amount of detectable radio frequencies. On the other hand, you'll note that a cellphone (which is certainly not neutral with respect to radio) carries no such FCC text. -- Ross Vandegrift ross@kallisti.us "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 From christhemonkey at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 11:08:07 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Mon Dec 18 11:08:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: References: <20061218013212.CA09A4F12D87@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <79eea87e0612180808p217daeb4xf3107700ba966dcd@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > "chris beagles": > > > > Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled > > the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: > > > > If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I > > then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the > > sound crackles accordingly. > > Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. > > > > This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd > > for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. > > > > I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. > > If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > > > Any help much appreciated. > > > > Did you start pd with the "-rt" switch? In case not, that will help. > > (PS. Always add the terminal switches you start a program with when asking > for help) > > Ah sorry, didnt think to post how i launched it. I had been launching it just from the gnome menu entry (ie, who knows with what switches!) will try running it with -rt flag an if that works change the menu entry accordingly. Chris. From markus at herhoffer.net Mon Dec 18 11:20:37 2006 From: markus at herhoffer.net (Markus Herhoffer) Date: Mon Dec 18 11:21:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOTU Symphonic Instrument & Linux Message-ID: <4586BFD5.40507@herhoffer.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello! I?ve decided to rely on a commercial product for symphonic sampling and my choice is MOTU?s Symphonic Instrument. Has anyone tried it out under Linux? Will it work together with jackvst, dssi-vst or wine? Markus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFhr/VuXdsp50C0vMRCEuTAJ4iFPq7UACdcLHE9CFOaVJtruaSiACgjudq MTouYQQlrRliN/Kp6ntx+68= =h2au -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cucullin at wtfisthat.net Mon Dec 18 11:30:08 2006 From: cucullin at wtfisthat.net (Joseph M. Gaffney) Date: Mon Dec 18 11:30:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Cell Phone RFI! In-Reply-To: <20061218162132.373EB4F5A194@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061218162132.373EB4F5A194@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612181130.08667.cucullin@wtfisthat.net> Alot of this is due to grounding methods. Interestingly, a test recently conducted showed that having a ground (one that literally went into the ground) horrendously increased rf interference. They began to look at why, and saw that most of the pro audio devices had a grounding method that was inadequate - mics being grounded to the shielding as they should, but also jumped across the circuit boards - this being the main source of issue. I forget who did the study, but there is a whitepaper out there. I don't have it at home, but I do have it at work - I will be back there tomorrow (home sick) and will post up a link to it then. Lots of info is packed in there. As a note, the one interesting thing that came from this was a line of mics that were "blackberry-proof". I'll have to remember who made those, it may be of interest as well. -Joseph M. Gaffney From iainduncan at telus.net Mon Dec 18 13:32:19 2006 From: iainduncan at telus.net (iain duncan) Date: Mon Dec 18 13:33:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Forcing formatting with Lilypond Message-ID: <1166466739.15763.38.camel@xornot-ubuntu> I have a couple of questions re lilypond before trying it out if anyone can help me. - Can I force formatting and spacing such that there will *always* be 4 or 8 measures per print line? - Can one change the type setting and format of the English chord symbols? ( ie how one notates say C7+9 etc ) - Is it fairly easy to integrate lilypond with databases? Thanks Iain From iainduncan at telus.net Mon Dec 18 13:39:03 2006 From: iainduncan at telus.net (iain duncan) Date: Mon Dec 18 13:40:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Usable linux accompaniment software? Message-ID: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> There seem to be a few partially developed options and I'm not sure where to start. I would like to hear subjective opinions on whether any of the linux options are usable for learning/practicing jazz standards, preferably from people with some experience playing jazz who can evaluate whether the auto-accompaniment is good enough to practice with. I intend to start working on learning tunes in a big way this year and would ideally like to come up with an integrated toolset that I can use to make lead sheets the way I like them, and from the same data files generate halfway usable auto-accompaniment tracks. System could preferably run on linux and OSX under fink. Opinions? Thanks Iain From extremecs at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 11:26:44 2006 From: extremecs at yahoo.com (October) Date: Mon Dec 18 13:41:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW In-Reply-To: <20061217184902.4i4459daeco8sk0o@markehle.net> Message-ID: <67361.88938.qm@web52305.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Mark! Coincidently a similar question was asked on a list many of us are members on the very same day you submitted your questions! It might serve you well to follow that thread too: http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/users/2006-December/011707.html Basically I build pretty much the same machine I would build for serious "gaming", perhaps dropped back a few notches on the video card. The motherboard and PSU being the true heart of the system, it's certainly no place to skimp! Asus has long been my favorite brand of motherboard... out of the last dozen or so machines I've built around their boards I've only had one with problems and their 3 year warranty is genuine. Power Supply needs to be rated at least 500w, higher if you are going to run a RAID or something in the case. Enermax is my pick for best value, PC Power & Cooling if you have a bunch of extra money to spend, Antec and Thermaltake seem to also be popular brands. Don't try to save money on a bargain brand power supply! It will come back to haunt you, for sure! As much RAM as you can afford to put in the system is good... my current machine has 2x1024 DDR and I'll probably double that to 4 gigs in the future. Processor should be fast but doesn't need to be bleeding edge either and multiple cores are not well supported (yet) so while you can buy top end CPU(s) for future-proofing just don't expect to get the full worth out of them immediately. Same can be said with running a 64bit. There are 64bit distros out there that are "usable" but at the moment are probably better recommended for developers and bug-hunters than for serious audio production. I currently run a 32bit debian based linux on a 64bit AMD single core but Intel should serve you well also... more of a matter of personal preference here as far as brand goes. I mentioned video cards... I really prefer nvidia under linux, due to the quality of the proprietary drivers and ease of installation, and dual monitor (dvi) is something I couldn't live without in my studio. Currently I run 2 x 21" Dell CRT for a combined desktop of 3200x1200 which makes tending to several music apps at the same time much easier than crowding everything together on a single screen. Any mid-range gaming card should do this well. Plan on spending at least US$100 here (monitors extra!) I run a pair of Western Digital IDE drives but if I could afford the upgrade I really want it would be at least four (maybe with a few spares for backup) 200 GB or larger SATA drives set up in a software RAID 0+1 or maybe RAID5. Firewire or SCSI would be nice as well as would an outboard rack if you are going with many more drives than that. I run a Delta44 which works great under linux but do most of my actual mixing and line-in in a seperate mixer. A Delta1010 should be fantastic! Best, Jon Hoskins mark@ehle.homelinux.org wrote: Hello, all - I am a brand-new member to this list. I want to thank you all right off the bat for providing this list. I am in the process of putting together a personal music production studio. I am a former professional musician who changed careers to computers a number of years back and I would like to get back into music and digital recording as a sideline/hobby. I need some recommendations as to which components to use in a Linux-based DAW. I have a Delta 1010 on the way, and would like recommendations on parts (motherboard / CPU / memory / drives / distro) that would make a machine that I would not have to wish later on that I had bought something else. My main use for the system would be recording my Brass Quintet and my piano/keyboard musings (the hobby part) and possibly live recoding work (the sideline part). Seems to me that there would be some money to be made by recording events and providing Cd's for sale immediately after, as well as MP3's online. Forgive me if this information is in the archives somewhere. I looked, and could not find something that recommended all components of a complete system. If this info is already on the net somewhere, please point me the way. Also - where I work, we are heavy into iSCSI storage area networks. Has anybody ever used one of these (like maybe, openfiler) for the storage of music data? Thanks again so much, Mark in Michigan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls who needs gates or windows? --unknown __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061218/7b7dc2ed/attachment.html From iainduncan at telus.net Mon Dec 18 13:41:40 2006 From: iainduncan at telus.net (iain duncan) Date: Mon Dec 18 13:42:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? Message-ID: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Ok, last question this morning. ;) Subjective opinions on which linux time/pitch shifting utility is the most usable for changing keys and tempo of music ( no voices )? Does not need to be "production quality" but good enough to shift backing tracks and still be able to use them. Able to run on OSX as well under fink would be a bonus! Thanks Iain From atte.jensen at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 14:06:50 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Mon Dec 18 14:07:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4586E6CA.7070509@gmail.com> iain duncan wrote: > Subjective opinions on which linux time/pitch shifting utility is the > most usable for changing keys and tempo of music ( no voices )? I'm not sure what you intend to use it for, but transcribe! has the best time stretch I've heard so far. It's cheap-ware ($50 I think) and available for linux. If you think about transcribing solos, it a the best tool there is! http://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/download.html -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From atte.jensen at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 14:14:13 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Mon Dec 18 14:14:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Usable linux accompaniment software? In-Reply-To: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4586E885.9030706@gmail.com> iain duncan wrote: > Opinions? I always preferred practicing to aebersold. -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From perodog at gmx.net Mon Dec 18 14:39:04 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Mon Dec 18 14:37:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4586EE58.9090404@gmx.net> iain duncan wrote: > Ok, last question this morning. ;) > > Subjective opinions on which linux time/pitch shifting utility is the > most usable for changing keys and tempo of music ( no voices )? Does not > need to be "production quality" but good enough to shift backing tracks > and still be able to use them. Able to run on OSX as well under fink > would be a bonus! > > Thanks > Iain > > hi, have a look at ladspa.org and get all the ladspa stuff you can. i just had a look, there is a very good one called "tap pitch shifter" which i very like. i just realized that it is made by the same guy who is maintaining the aqualung project! another useful shifter is the "AM pitchshifter" by s.harris. Ardour2 does natively stretch/shrink time of the region with the "stretch/shrink it" tool. i think that all this stuff runs on osx as good as here on a thinkpad? cheers, doc From iainduncan at telus.net Mon Dec 18 15:15:50 2006 From: iainduncan at telus.net (iain duncan) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:16:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Usable linux accompaniment software? In-Reply-To: <4586E885.9030706@gmail.com> References: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> <4586E885.9030706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166472950.15763.53.camel@xornot-ubuntu> On Mon, 2006-18-12 at 20:14 +0100, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > iain duncan wrote: > > > Opinions? > > I always preferred practicing to aebersold. Me too, hence the pitch shifting question. :) That said, I have limited funds and limitless tunes to learn ... :/ iain > From st at tobiah.org Mon Dec 18 15:22:35 2006 From: st at tobiah.org (st) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:23:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> Message-ID: <4586F88B.1000902@tobiah.org> Paul Winkler wrote: > Progress: > The free (beer) soundfont from > http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm > is quite usable, much better than the Roland sounds I found at > hammersound. I'm gonna try the 80 MB version too, it's only $5 US. > > -PW > This is the best piano that I have yet come across (The $5 one). It has velocity layers, so the quiet notes sound more mellow then the loud ones. This is a must for realism in any piano sound. Tobiah From st at tobiah.org Mon Dec 18 15:24:45 2006 From: st at tobiah.org (st) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:25:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4586F90D.4020708@tobiah.org> With a little learning you might be able to get csound to do a good job at that. iain duncan wrote: > Ok, last question this morning. ;) > > Subjective opinions on which linux time/pitch shifting utility is the > most usable for changing keys and tempo of music ( no voices )? Does not > need to be "production quality" but good enough to shift backing tracks > and still be able to use them. Able to run on OSX as well under fink > would be a bonus! > > Thanks > Iain From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 18 15:28:45 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:31:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <4586F88B.1000902@tobiah.org> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> <4586F88B.1000902@tobiah.org> Message-ID: <1166473725.17059.120.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 12:22 -0800, st wrote: > Paul Winkler wrote: > > Progress: > > The free (beer) soundfont from > > http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm > > is quite usable, much better than the Roland sounds I found at > > hammersound. I'm gonna try the 80 MB version too, it's only $5 US. > > > > -PW > > > > This is the best piano that I have yet come across (The $5 one). > It has velocity layers, so the quiet notes sound more mellow then > the loud ones. This is a must for realism in any piano sound. What do people think of the PersonalCopy soundfonts? http://www.personalcopy.com/home.htm Lee From iainduncan at telus.net Mon Dec 18 15:30:37 2006 From: iainduncan at telus.net (iain duncan) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:33:05 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <4586F90D.4020708@tobiah.org> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> <4586F90D.4020708@tobiah.org> Message-ID: <1166473837.15763.55.camel@xornot-ubuntu> On Mon, 2006-18-12 at 12:24 -0800, st wrote: > With a little learning you might be able to get > csound to do a good job at that. Agreed, but an off the shelf would do me for just practicing tunes. It's true that the csound phase-vocoder stuff has come a long way in the last couple of years though! Iain From jamesmstone at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 15:49:09 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Mon Dec 18 15:49:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] nice piano In-Reply-To: <1166473725.17059.120.camel@mindpipe> References: <20061215023608.GB8384@slinkp.com> <20061215035729.GC8384@slinkp.com> <4586F88B.1000902@tobiah.org> <1166473725.17059.120.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <20061218204908.GA9294@moon.base> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 03:28:45PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote: > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 12:22 -0800, st wrote: > > Paul Winkler wrote: > > > Progress: > > > The free (beer) soundfont from > > > http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm > > > is quite usable, much better than the Roland sounds I found at > > > hammersound. I'm gonna try the 80 MB version too, it's only $5 US. > > > > > > -PW > > > > > > > This is the best piano that I have yet come across (The $5 one). > > It has velocity layers, so the quiet notes sound more mellow then > > the loud ones. This is a must for realism in any piano sound. > > What do people think of the PersonalCopy soundfonts? > > http://www.personalcopy.com/home.htm > I have never managed to find a satisfactory GM soundfont for all instruments that blends well.. The PC ones were OK but nothing special. I think the FluidV3 was quite nice, but very heavy and still not that great for blending.. As far as I remember the PersonalCopy piano sounded dreadful. Unison was the nicest balanced of them all, but sounds very "midi computer" style. James From petespin at att.net Mon Dec 18 16:30:20 2006 From: petespin at att.net (Peter Finnegan) Date: Mon Dec 18 16:30:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Forcing formatting with Lilypond In-Reply-To: <1166466739.15763.38.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166466739.15763.38.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <1166477420.11667.8.camel@gracie> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 10:32 -0800, iain duncan wrote: > I have a couple of questions re lilypond before trying it out if anyone > can help me. > > - Can I force formatting and spacing such that there will *always* be 4 > or 8 measures per print line? I believe so. Here is the point in the manual that explains horizontal spacing. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Horizontal-spacing#Horizontal-spacing > > - Can one change the type setting and format of the English chord > symbols? ( ie how one notates say C7+9 etc ) Yes http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Printing-chord-names#Printing-chord-names The manual is very well written. Here is a link to the main documentation. I have a copy in pdf that I have open most of the time I am typesetting music. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/ If you are using an earlier version: http://lilypond.org/web/documentation > > - Is it fairly easy to integrate lilypond with databases? Unfortunately, I have no experience doing this. > Thanks > Iain > Best Wishes, Peter From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Mon Dec 18 16:33:53 2006 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Mon Dec 18 16:34:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: <200612182133.53634.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> On Monday 18 Dec 2006 18:41, iain duncan wrote: > Subjective opinions on which linux time/pitch shifting utility is the > most usable for changing keys and tempo of music ( no voices )? There are several LADSPA pitch shifters, some of which are of vaguely musical quality (the TAP one, Steve Harris's better one, probably Tim Goetze's PVOC Transposer although I don't seem to have that here at the moment). I couldn't think of a Linux application for interactive musical pitch shifting -- guessing or being told the current key or pitch and adjusting to a different key, rather than just twiddling a multiplier in a LADSPA window. Atte's suggestion of Transcribe looks good. For time stretching and studying a recording, Sonic Visualiser (mine) is handy. The current Subversion trunk, which is fairly stable and will turn into a new release soon, has a much better time stretcher than the 0.9 release (which can only slow things down and only in big steps). It's a bit of a pain to build from Subversion, but it does work on Windows and OS/X as well. Rosegarden can also now do drag-to-fit time stretching using the same code as SV. Again the feature's in Subversion only -- release soon. Ardour has done the same thing for ages. I like Rosegarden's time stretcher (a phase vocoder with phase locking at transients) better than that in Ardour (or Transcribe), but it's much slower. Time stretcher quality is very subjective though and I don't believe any of these is really state of the art. None of the above can guess the tempo and shift it to a different specified tempo. Freecycle might be able to do that, though I don't think it's really designed for it. Chris From finnendahl at folkwang-hochschule.de Mon Dec 18 17:59:52 2006 From: finnendahl at folkwang-hochschule.de (Orm Finnendahl) Date: Mon Dec 18 18:00:33 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Time/pitch shifting software? In-Reply-To: <200612182133.53634.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> References: <1166467300.15763.45.camel@xornot-ubuntu> <200612182133.53634.cannam@all-day-breakfast.com> Message-ID: <20061218225952.GA8053@grisey> Hi, I use plainpv for pitch shifting/time scaling. It's a command line phase vocoder and works quite well. You should be able to find it through Google. Otherwise drop me a note and I will send it off list. -- Orm From folderol at ukfsn.org Mon Dec 18 18:09:02 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Mon Dec 18 18:09:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished Message-ID: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> I've just started on a new melody (well last night actually). It has a long way to go, but I thought you might like to hear the outline. I'm not yet sure where to take it. It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? It is at http:/www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg Comments welcome -- Will J G From cave.dnb at tiscali.fr Mon Dec 18 18:33:10 2006 From: cave.dnb at tiscali.fr (Nigel Henry) Date: Mon Dec 18 18:48:31 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> Message-ID: <200612190033.11002.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> On Tuesday 19 December 2006 00:09, Folderol wrote: > I've just started on a new melody (well last night actually). It has a > long way to go, but I thought you might like to hear the outline. I'm > not yet sure where to take it. > > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? > > It is at http:/www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg > > Comments welcome or perhaps at http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg Nigel. From fons at kokkinizita.net Mon Dec 18 18:36:53 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon Dec 18 18:48:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> Message-ID: <20061218233653.GF5858@linux-1.site> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:09:02PM +0000, Folderol wrote: > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? > > It is at http:/www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg It surely makes one dream... But the oriental connection remains hidden to me - there's no trace of 'oriental harmony', and the 3/4 measure reminds me more of Austria... -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 19:34:30 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Mon Dec 18 19:36:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <4582F5D9.7090004@gmail.com> References: <8200bab70611282227q1e4fb296j1118c8681f664996@mail.gmail.com> <456E1498.90602@linuxuse.de> <8200bab70611300106x1bf3ca0la9b2ac4f2130733@mail.gmail.com> <7611.194.65.103.1.1164879111.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300232y34770135k8fcec61e74118077@mail.gmail.com> <37983.194.65.103.1.1164898041.squirrel@www.rncbc.org> <8200bab70611300755j13893f98jf16d58d196700248@mail.gmail.com> <45700957.8060308@ballen.fastmail.fm> <8200bab70612142127o3b6be55dx5478f0c8edbffb6@mail.gmail.com> <4582F5D9.7090004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8200bab70612181634y3f21716bhe69f2eda0ead3f52@mail.gmail.com> On 12/15/06, Atte Andr? Jensen wrote: > Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > > I don't understand why everyone who tells me about some new Linux > > thing has apparently had a breeze of a time with it, and yet when I > > try it it never works. > > Did you consider looking for a local linux user group? You might be > lucky that there's alot of helpful, knowledgeable people just around the > corner willing to spend the time helping you "in person" in the (so > called) real world. This could get your regular linux distro up and > running in an evening, although you might have to take it from there, > since they're not likely to know much about RT audio. Thanks, Atte, that's a great idea. I'll see what I can find out for Philadelphia PA From plutek at infinity.net Mon Dec 18 19:57:45 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:08:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> (from robin@gareus.org on Mon Dec 18 19:03:31 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> On 12/18/2006 07:03:31 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > plutek wrote: > > > following up on my recent (unanswered) question > > I was waiting with interest for replies, too! > > > i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a SMPTE > > timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the corresponding > > numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. > > you mean LTC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_timecode ?! > I don't think there is open source software to parse LTC just yet. > There are a few emails and discussions out there (eg. LAD July 2000). yes, LTC. yes, i've read the discussions. (yes, they're old!) > > > i would like to be able to run multiple instances of such > > software, to compare timecode in various audio streams. > > I suggest to have a single jack application with audio > input-channels: a standalone application can easily do some maths, > eg. display differences between SMPTE's. or record some tracks to > disk. yes... good suggestion, of course. > > I was interested in having a tool that reads the first [LTC]SMPTE from > a > [analog] recording and use it as offset for the recorded [digital] > file. > At the end I would only be interested in the drift+jitter information > (no varispeed). There's also "video sync to external LTC audio" on the > xjadeo ToDo list (with varispeed), but I lost interest as all recent > recordings I get are made completely digital.. no need for analog sync > tracks! I do not even have analog recording hardware any more :-( cool to hear it is (or was) on the xjadeo todo list, although once we're dealing with digitized video in xjadeo we don't, as you point out, really need ltc any more. i've needed this stuff recently while doing audio for live video shoots, just so we can all work from (and record) a common timecode reference, and confirm while shooting that we are actually locked. > > > alternately, does anyone out there have the ability to program such > a thing? > > could be done. the specs seem to be open, although there might be some > patent issues for commercial users. > > it should become a library to read/write LTC SMPTE. > Let's see if the ardour or alsa guys can dig out some old code, but > else > I'll get started on a framework in the upcoming dark evenings of my > ski-trip: It's not really hard to detect phase transitions and decode > the signal, but I need to rely on you (or others) for testing. i'd be happy to test. > > Do you have hardware that can read or generate timecode, or just > files? yes, i can generate, but i cannot parse an incoming stream. i also have no way of knowing what time i'm spitting out (unless i also send MTC and lock i.e. ardour to it), since my generator (an old opcode studio64-xtc) just runs with no display of where it is. it CAN lock to incoming LTC, but again i must tell it to transcode to MTC and then lock software to it in order to know what's going on. i suppose that's not a big deal, except that the software which is necessary to set up reading and writing MTC only runs on windows, so i would need to dig up an old win95 machine and use that to set the user modes on the studio64, then take the box and run with it. (ick, i feel so DIRTY...) maybe it's time to go hunting for that studio64 floppy....yikes. > > I'd guess that it can get somewhat tricky with noise, variable speed > and > funny framerates... but the simple part should take less than a few > days. and maybe others in the community can help out on the > "professional touch" once there is some code to get started with. robin... it would be awesome to be able to deal with incoming/outgoing LTC directly. i'm hoping there are some other interested souls who might crawl out of the woodwork here, if this gets off the ground. linux should get into the video/film shoots, and it needs LTC to do that. windows and mac can both deal with LTC directly. .pltk. From mle+la at mega-nerd.com Mon Dec 18 20:26:53 2006 From: mle+la at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:29:07 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> Message-ID: <20061219122653.26a2b7c8.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> plutek wrote: > greetings! > > following up on my recent (unanswered) question about a timecode > generator, i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a > SMPTE timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the > corresponding numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. I have some old code (last touched in 2001) that is supposed to read and write SMPTTE time code. However, I don't know if it works. If you can send me some code I'll play with it, make sure it works and turn it into a project or something. Cheers, Erik -- +-----------------------------------------------------------+ Erik de Castro Lopo +-----------------------------------------------------------+ "One in four [British] Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists." -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/23/npoll23.xml From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 20:27:11 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:29:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> On 12/15/06, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote: > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on > > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very > > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In > > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in > > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of > > polish expected from a modern OS. > > Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking > to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have > more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA > installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two > different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT > patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. I find this incredibly hard to believe. Windows works for me with no snags, for the most part, and I've spent countless hours wrestling with several Linux distros trying to get even halfway acceptable latency, to no avail. Recompiling kernels, applying patches, re-prioritizing processes, etc. Windows has been phenomenally easier in that department, in my experience. I hope to solve this Linux business once and for all over break so that I can meet some deadlines using it next semester and finally start telling everyone how wonderful it is and how foolish they were for laughing at me throwing away endless hours on it. From lanas at securenet.net Mon Dec 18 20:29:34 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:30:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> Message-ID: <20061218202934.6bddef5c@mistral.stie> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:09:02 +0000 Folderol wrote: > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? Sounds a lot like some German Volkslieder rather than anything Middle East, really. Can't find anything oriental in there. Al From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 18 20:40:20 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:40:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack svn won't lash In-Reply-To: <200612141828.04282.njcross@sbcglobal.net> References: <200612141828.04282.njcross@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> I've compiled the svn version of jack-rack 1.4.5rc3, because the 1.4.4 version is not connecting to my lash server. I've compiled the svn with ./configure --enable-lash, and, alas... still no lash entry is generated when the program is started. Has anyone had any luck with jack-rack and lash? I've tried to RTM... but I can't find any info on lash usage there or in the web site. /brian From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 18 20:43:06 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 18 20:44:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 20:27 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > On 12/15/06, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote: > > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on > > > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very > > > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In > > > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in > > > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of > > > polish expected from a modern OS. > > > > Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking > > to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have > > more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA > > installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two > > different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT > > patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. > > I find this incredibly hard to believe. Windows works for me with no > snags, for the most part, and I've spent countless hours wrestling > with several Linux distros trying to get even halfway acceptable > latency, to no avail. Recompiling kernels, applying patches, > re-prioritizing processes, etc. Windows has been phenomenally easier > in that department, in my experience. I hope to solve this Linux > business once and for all over break so that I can meet some deadlines > using it next semester and finally start telling everyone how > wonderful it is and how foolish they were for laughing at me throwing > away endless hours on it. > What sound hardware? Are you using a cheap laptop with the onboard sound device or something? Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, it's designed to work with Windows. On good hardware Linux should win. Lee From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 21:43:19 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 18 21:43:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA Message-ID: Hello, I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or what? Thanks for any help! -TimH From dsbaikov at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 21:53:36 2006 From: dsbaikov at gmail.com (Dmitry Baikov) Date: Mon Dec 18 21:53:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70a871c80612181853m5bf2e00bg7545e96413123e05@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/06, Tim Howard wrote: > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? Last time I checked, Radeon was an ATI's card. And had open-source drivers. > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > what? You should have DRM (Direct Rendering Management) module ATI Radeon (under Drivers/Char devices) enabled. And have an appropiate DRI modules for xorg. Thats all. Hope this'll help. Dmitry. From markknecht at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 21:54:52 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Mon Dec 18 21:55:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> Tim, I would suggest not using NVidia drivers with an ATI Radeon graphics adapter. - Mark On 12/18/06, Tim Howard wrote: > Hello, > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > what? > > Thanks for any help! > > -TimH > From plutek at infinity.net Mon Dec 18 21:54:55 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Mon Dec 18 21:55:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <20061219122653.26a2b7c8.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> (from mle+la@mega-nerd.com on Mon Dec 18 20:26:53 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <20061219122653.26a2b7c8.mle+la@mega-nerd.com> Message-ID: <1166496895l.4182l.2l@paldesk> On 12/18/2006 08:26:53 PM, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > plutek wrote: > > > greetings! > > > > following up on my recent (unanswered) question about a timecode > > generator, i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a > > > SMPTE timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the > > corresponding numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. > > I have some old code (last touched in 2001) that is supposed to > read and write SMPTTE time code. > > However, I don't know if it works. If you can send me some code > I'll play with it, make sure it works and turn it into a project > or something. cool. i'll send you some samples of timecode tomorrow, off-list. .pltk. From jh at brainiac.com Mon Dec 18 21:58:11 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Mon Dec 18 21:58:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061218215811.80a60c66.jh@brainiac.com> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:43:19 -0800 "Tim Howard" wrote: > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? It's actually well documented at the Nvidia site and in the readme file that comes with the driver. > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > what? No, just compile the kernel module, which the installer script does automatically if the kernel-devel package is installed. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:01:57 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:02:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/18/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > Tim, > I would suggest not using NVidia drivers with an ATI Radeon graphics adapter. > > - Mark LOL, oops... I meant ATI. -TimH From dsbaikov at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:02:21 2006 From: dsbaikov at gmail.com (Dmitry Baikov) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:02:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70a871c80612181902p4ecd0176xc1600adb9ad408b7@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > I would suggest not using NVidia drivers with an ATI Radeon graphics adapter. I suppose, it will not hurt (not that it will help, though) ;) From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:05:21 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:06:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <70a871c80612181853m5bf2e00bg7545e96413123e05@mail.gmail.com> References: <70a871c80612181853m5bf2e00bg7545e96413123e05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/18/06, Dmitry Baikov wrote: > On 12/19/06, Tim Howard wrote: > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > Last time I checked, Radeon was an ATI's card. And had open-source drivers. > > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > > what? > You should have DRM (Direct Rendering Management) module ATI Radeon > (under Drivers/Char devices) enabled. > And have an appropiate DRI modules for xorg. > > Thats all. > > > Hope this'll help. > > Dmitry. > Thanks, I'll go try this... -TimH From jh at brainiac.com Mon Dec 18 22:07:02 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:08:15 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <20061218215811.80a60c66.jh@brainiac.com> References: <20061218215811.80a60c66.jh@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <20061218220702.e72908c7.jh@brainiac.com> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:58:11 -0500 Joe Hartley wrote: > On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:43:19 -0800 > "Tim Howard" wrote: > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > It's actually well documented at the Nvidia site and in the readme file > that comes with the driver. Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't answer email and play poker at the same time.... -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 18 22:08:21 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:10:06 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1166497702.17059.147.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 18:43 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > Hello, > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > what? > > Thanks for any help! > See http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon. There should be no need to recompile the kernel or use a binary-only driver. Are you sure the distro did not already install the correct driver? Lee From plutek at infinity.net Mon Dec 18 22:13:47 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:14:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> (from robin@gareus.org on Mon Dec 18 21:44:11 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> On 12/18/2006 09:44:11 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > Hi! > > > cool to hear it is (or was) on the xjadeo todo list, > > it still is. one might get the idea to play a video file along to an > live audio-LTC, but no one requested that feature yet ;-) I guess it > could be useful for making video-walls using "old" computers without > MIDI and netjack... > > > i've needed this stuff recently while doing > > audio for live video shoots, just so we can all work from (and > record) a > > common timecode reference, and confirm while shooting that we are > > actually locked. > > I'm confused by "live video shots", are you editing (offline) or you > were monitoring (online/live)? mmh. OTOH it does not matter, does it? > In case it's during shooting: Are you feeding a camera generated LTC > into the the DAT, or some external generator into both the camera(s) > (which also records audio) and the HDR/DAT? during shooting. we were going to feed the studio64-xtc LTC to both the cameras and ardour, but had trouble locking cameras to that code -- i actually think this may have been a problem with the feed from my end, but we didn't have time to debug it. we ended up feeding camera-generated LTC into ardour in realtime while shooting. > -> how good/noisy is the LTC signal? > -> is it raw audio data or has it been resampled/transcoded. (lossy MD > or mp3 recording ??) i don't know how good the camera-generated LTC is. i have not yet tried to lock the studio64-xtc to that, but will try tomorrow. > > > > yes, i can generate, but i cannot parse an incoming stream. i also > have > > no way of knowing what time i'm spitting out (unless i also send MTC > and > > lock i.e. ardour to it), since my generator (an old opcode > studio64-xtc) > > just runs with no display of where it is. it CAN lock to incoming > LTC, > > but again i must tell it to transcode to MTC and then lock software > to > > it in order to know what's going on. > > don't get started on that windows machine... I've got some old files > where I know the timecode for reference (25fps). Hardware is > interesting for noise analysis (input) and to verify if proprietary > boxes can lock to the signal that "libltcsmpte" will generate. > > If I can read my own files, I'll try some of yours. Could you email or > upload a minute of example LTC (wav or aiff - gzip ) or maybe better > make that more files: clean and noisy :-) what is your usual > framerate? sure, i'll generate some samples, and also prepare a sample of what i recorded from the camera. the video producer i'm working with now is using 29.97 non-drop, but i'll send a range of frame rates > > when the parser works it'd be interesting to set up a loop: Can your > studio64-xtc lock to incoming LTC and output LTC (w/o you installing > windows)? i'll check tomorrow. i think so. i may just fire up my wife's old win95 laptop anyway, and play with MTC transcoding, just for the fun of it. yes, i'm up for beta testing. i don't have cameras available to play with, but i have a few computers here to sync together, along with the studio64-xtc. > that should be good enough for preliminary tests. In > January > I can get my hands on a scope.. > > I'm leaving for Austria tomorrow, and be will online again at the > Chaos > Communication Congress in Berlin after x-mas. cool. great to see this moving forward. it would be very cool to be able to lock to LTC for post-production on this project. you may have noticed that erik de castro lopo has stepped into the ring as well.... wow; a flurry of activity! i'll be in touch about samples. .pltk. From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:16:43 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:16:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <1166497702.17059.147.camel@mindpipe> References: <1166497702.17059.147.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: On 12/18/06, Lee Revell wrote: > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 18:43 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > > what? > > > > Thanks for any help! > > > > See http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon. There should be no need > to recompile the kernel or use a binary-only driver. > > Are you sure the distro did not already install the correct driver? > > Lee > No, but I'm at work right now, and my Linux box is at home. Now that I look at the contents of the FC5 distro, I see that there is a "xorg-x11-drv-ati-6.5.7.3-4.i3..>" RPM, which I'm guessing would contain the DRI module that I need? -TimH From markknecht at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:18:34 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:18:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612181918ob3464f6k9b6d9a0ffc07107c@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Tim Howard wrote: > On 12/18/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > > Tim, > > I would suggest not using NVidia drivers with an ATI Radeon graphics adapter. > > > > - Mark > > LOL, oops... I meant ATI. > > -TimH > I thought so, but hey - you never know! ;-) Now, why do you need the ATI driver vs. just using the Xorg radeon driver in the kernel? What are you doing that requires either 3D accelleration, which may or may not not work with that version of the 9200 anyway, or composite/SVideo outputs. Those are the only reasons I know to use the ATI driver. I have two 9200-based machines I use as MythTV front-ends so on those two machines I use ati-drivers. On my AMD64 desktop that I do music on (well, supposedly it's music...) I use the radeon driver: mark@lightning ~ $ lsmod | grep radeon radeon 109600 2 drm 73448 3 radeon mark@lightning ~ $ If you can stick with the driver in the kernel then you will find updating kernels in the future to be far easier. Often a new kernel comes out and the ATI driver doesn't show up right away so you have to wait, etc. - Mark From markknecht at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:20:06 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:20:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: <1166497702.17059.147.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612181920q74369171ncff84784bd356448@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Tim Howard wrote: > On 12/18/06, Lee Revell wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 18:43 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > > > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > > > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > > > > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > > > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > > > what? > > > > > > Thanks for any help! > > > > > > > See http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon. There should be no need > > to recompile the kernel or use a binary-only driver. > > > > Are you sure the distro did not already install the correct driver? > > > > Lee > > > > No, but I'm at work right now, and my Linux box is at home. > > Now that I look at the contents of the FC5 distro, I see that there is > a "xorg-x11-drv-ati-6.5.7.3-4.i3..>" RPM, which I'm guessing would > contain the DRI module that I need? > > -TimH > No, I think DRI is part of the kernel. I compile it as a module and then load it as 'drm'. See my other post for the two Xorg-X11 drivers in use on AMD64 with multiple sound cards. - Mark From tdhoward at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:27:30 2006 From: tdhoward at gmail.com (Tim Howard) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:27:43 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612181918ob3464f6k9b6d9a0ffc07107c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612181918ob3464f6k9b6d9a0ffc07107c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/18/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > Now, why do you need the ATI driver vs. just using the Xorg radeon > driver in the kernel? What are you doing that requires either 3D > accelleration, which may or may not not work with that version of the > 9200 anyway, or composite/SVideo outputs. Those are the only reasons I > know to use the ATI driver. Well, once upon a time I had a SuSE installation on this very machine, and hardware 3D acceleration did not work at all. (software rendering) But when I installed the binary drivers, it worked quite well. I have since heard that for various reasons, that's not so good. So when I did this FC5 install, I found that the 3D acceleration was not up to par with what I had before, and I assumed that FC5 didn't come with the drivers for my card. But I'm finding out that maybe they do, and I'm still not quite getting the acceleration that I'm used to. > mark@lightning ~ $ lsmod | grep radeon > radeon 109600 2 > drm 73448 3 radeon > mark@lightning ~ $ > I'll run that command when I get home, and see what it says... Thanks, -TimH From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 18 22:47:47 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:49:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612181918ob3464f6k9b6d9a0ffc07107c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166500067.17059.161.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 19:27 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > On 12/18/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > Now, why do you need the ATI driver vs. just using the Xorg radeon > > driver in the kernel? What are you doing that requires either 3D > > accelleration, which may or may not not work with that version of the > > 9200 anyway, or composite/SVideo outputs. Those are the only reasons I > > know to use the ATI driver. > > Well, once upon a time I had a SuSE installation on this very machine, > and hardware 3D acceleration did not work at all. (software rendering) > But when I installed the binary drivers, it worked quite well. I > have since heard that for various reasons, that's not so good. > > So when I did this FC5 install, I found that the 3D acceleration was > not up to par with what I had before, and I assumed that FC5 didn't > come with the drivers for my card. But I'm finding out that maybe > they do, and I'm still not quite getting the acceleration that I'm > used to. Neither option is "good" or "bad". It's a tradeoff between performance (binary only driver) and reliability/debuggability/freedom (open source driver). It's almost certain that you'll get higher frame rates with the closed source driver, as the vendor knows all the secret details of the hardware. You can check whether 3D acceleration is working with: $ glxinfo | grep direct If you see: direct rendering: Yes then HW acceleration is working. ee From rlrevell at joe-job.com Mon Dec 18 22:57:25 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Mon Dec 18 22:59:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <5bdc1c8b0612181920q74369171ncff84784bd356448@mail.gmail.com> References: <1166497702.17059.147.camel@mindpipe> <5bdc1c8b0612181920q74369171ncff84784bd356448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166500645.17059.167.camel@mindpipe> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 19:20 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > > Now that I look at the contents of the FC5 distro, I see that there > is > > a "xorg-x11-drv-ati-6.5.7.3-4.i3..>" RPM, which I'm guessing would > > contain the DRI module that I need? > > > > -TimH > > > > No, I think DRI is part of the kernel. I compile it as a module and > then load it as 'drm'. See my other post for the two Xorg-X11 drivers > in use on AMD64 with multiple sound cards. > You need both for DRI to work - a kernel module and a userspace X11 driver. On my system the kernel module is "via": via 41568 1 drm 62356 2 via via_agp 9088 1 agpgart 29744 2 drm,via_agp And the X driver is "via_drv.so": /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/via_drv.so If the X server is properly configured, the kernel modules will automatically be loaded when X starts. Check Xorg logs. Lee From markknecht at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 23:25:32 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Mon Dec 18 23:25:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: <5bdc1c8b0612181854i1e0a3532wc18b7f6a868eeca5@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0612181918ob3464f6k9b6d9a0ffc07107c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612182025o3b58a21fief1de07babeaf8b3@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Tim Howard wrote: > On 12/18/06, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > Now, why do you need the ATI driver vs. just using the Xorg radeon > > driver in the kernel? What are you doing that requires either 3D > > accelleration, which may or may not not work with that version of the > > 9200 anyway, or composite/SVideo outputs. Those are the only reasons I > > know to use the ATI driver. > > Well, once upon a time I had a SuSE installation on this very machine, > and hardware 3D acceleration did not work at all. (software rendering) > But when I installed the binary drivers, it worked quite well. I > have since heard that for various reasons, that's not so good. > > So when I did this FC5 install, I found that the 3D acceleration was > not up to par with what I had before, and I assumed that FC5 didn't > come with the drivers for my card. But I'm finding out that maybe > they do, and I'm still not quite getting the acceleration that I'm > used to. Granted. 3D accel works better in fglrx than radeon. No question about that. The question I have is what are you doing on a Linux music box that requires it? I decided not to do any of those things on this Linux box and just stock with the radeon driver from xorg so that I didn't have to deal with any of this. Have fun, Mark > > > > mark@lightning ~ $ lsmod | grep radeon > > radeon 109600 2 > > drm 73448 3 radeon > > mark@lightning ~ $ > > > > I'll run that command when I get home, and see what it says... > > Thanks, > -TimH > From njcross at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 19 00:46:27 2006 From: njcross at sbcglobal.net (njcross@sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue Dec 19 00:39:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 39, Issue 67 In-Reply-To: <20061219030256.79DF24F97058@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061219030256.79DF24F97058@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200612182146.27640.njcross@sbcglobal.net> On Monday 18 December 2006 07:02 pm, Brian Dunn wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:40:20 -0600 > From: Brian Dunn > Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack svn won't lash > To: A list for linux audio users > Message-ID: <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I've compiled the svn version of jack-rack 1.4.5rc3, because the 1.4.4 > version is not connecting to my lash server. ?I've compiled the svn with > ./configure --enable-lash, and, alas... still no lash entry is generated > when the program is started. ?Has anyone had any luck with jack-rack and > lash? I've tried to RTM... but I can't find any info on lash usage there > or in the web site. I used 1.4.4 patched with 'jack-rack-lash-shutdown2.diff' and that worked. 1.4.3,1.4.4 and 1.4.5rc2(sic) alone wouldn't be lashd. From linuxmedia4 at netscape.net Tue Dec 19 03:07:14 2006 From: linuxmedia4 at netscape.net (linuxmedia4@netscape.net) Date: Tue Dec 19 03:06:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45879DB2.3050801@netscape.net> badmuthahubbard@gmail.com wrote: > On 12/15/06, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote: >> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >> > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on >> > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very >> > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In >> > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in >> > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of >> > polish expected from a modern OS. >> Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking >> to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have >> more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA >> installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two >> different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT >> patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. > I find this incredibly hard to believe. Windows works for me with no > snags, for the most part, and I've spent countless hours wrestling > with several Linux distros trying to get even halfway acceptable > latency, to no avail. Recompiling kernels, applying patches, > re-prioritizing processes, etc. Windows has been phenomenally easier > in that department, in my experience. I hope to solve this Linux > business once and for all over break so that I can meet some deadlines > using it next semester and finally start telling everyone how > wonderful it is and how foolish they were for laughing at me throwing > away endless hours on it. I know someone mentioned their good experiences with Planet CCRMA. I also have had good experiences with it (running Fedora Core 3 and now 5). All the compiling and whatnot has already been done for you. The CCRMA/FC5 version is even easier to install then CCRMA/FC3 and even reorders your IRQs to favor the soundcard (that was the big one for me because I just couldn't do it with the laptop and it would have been tedious anyways). Rocco From mdeboer at iua.upf.edu Tue Dec 19 03:45:58 2006 From: mdeboer at iua.upf.edu (Maarten de Boer) Date: Tue Dec 19 03:47:55 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> Message-ID: <20061219094558.f773d0e8.mdeboer@iua.upf.es> hi, > generator, i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a > SMPTE timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the > corresponding numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. you might want to check this SMPTE decoder code i wrote years ago: ftp://www.iua.upf.es/pub/mdeboer/projects/SMPTE/ maarten -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From ats at offog.org Tue Dec 19 03:50:37 2006 From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson) Date: Tue Dec 19 03:51:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Cell Phone RFI! In-Reply-To: <200612181130.08667.cucullin@wtfisthat.net> (Joseph M. Gaffney's message of "Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:30:08 -0500") References: <20061218162132.373EB4F5A194@music.columbia.edu> <200612181130.08667.cucullin@wtfisthat.net> Message-ID: "Joseph M. Gaffney" writes: > Interestingly, a test recently conducted showed that having a ground > (one that literally went into the ground) horrendously increased rf > interference. Well, anyone who's built a crystal radio will understand that -- you can transmit and pick up radio waves far more effectively if you're doing it relative to a good ground! -- Adam Sampson From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Tue Dec 19 04:06:52 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil S. Matheussen) Date: Tue Dec 19 04:07:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW In-Reply-To: <20061218191437.2CD504F6DC62@music.columbia.edu> References: <20061218191437.2CD504F6DC62@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: October: > > Hello Mark! > > Coincidently a similar question was asked on a list many of us are > members on the very same day you submitted your questions! It might > serve you well to follow that thread too: > > http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/users/2006-December/011707.html > > Basically I build pretty much the same machine I would build for > serious "gaming", perhaps dropped back a few notches on the video card. > The motherboard and PSU being the true heart of the system, it's > certainly no place to skimp! Asus has long been my favorite brand of > motherboard... out of the last dozen or so machines I've built around > their boards I've only had one with problems and their 3 year warranty > is genuine. > I second that. Asus is a safe one. But even more important is the chipset in use, because not everyone works very well with linux. Personally, I have always had good experience with via or intel, but I have heard SiS is working fine too. Stay away from nvidia, at least the newest models. (the older the chipset, the less problems you will have) > Power Supply needs to be rated at least 500w, higher if you are going > to run a RAID or something in the case. Enermax is my pick for best > value, PC Power & Cooling if you have a bunch of extra money to spend, > Antec and Thermaltake seem to also be popular brands. Don't try to save > money on a bargain brand power supply! It will come back to haunt you, > for sure! > > As much RAM as you can afford to put in the system is good... my > current machine has 2x1024 DDR and I'll probably double that to 4 gigs in > the future. Processor should be fast but doesn't need to be bleeding > edge either and multiple cores are not well supported (yet) so while you > can buy top end CPU(s) for future-proofing just don't expect to get the > full worth out of them immediately. Same can be said with running a > 64bit. There are 64bit distros out there that are "usable" but at the > moment are probably better recommended for developers and bug-hunters > than for serious audio production. I currently run a 32bit debian based > linux on a 64bit AMD single core but Intel should serve you well also... > more of a matter of personal preference here as far as brand goes. > > I mentioned video cards... I really prefer nvidia under linux, due to > the quality of the proprietary drivers and ease of installation, and This is a bad advice. The proprietary drivers from nvidia cause xruns, and should be avoided. But older (ie. at least 2-3 year old) nvidia cards can be used with the open nv driver instead, which I will recommend, because I have had experience with numerous nvidia gfx cards, and have had very little problem. > dual monitor (dvi) is something I couldn't live without in my studio. > Currently I run 2 x 21" Dell CRT for a combined desktop of 3200x1200 > which makes tending to several music apps at the same time much easier > than crowding everything together on a single screen. Any mid-range > gaming card should do this well. Plan on spending at least US$100 here > (monitors extra!) > Well, not everyone thinks so. Using a descent windows manager, where you can change virtual screen quickly, makes multiple monitors unnecessary. What is faster, moving your head or eyes (where you have to refocus) to look at a different screen. Or, pressing a button on your keyboard? In windows, with its horrible unconfigurable interface, I guess it can make sence, but in X, you don't need more than one monitor. > I run a pair of Western Digital IDE drives but if I could afford the > upgrade I really want it would be at least four (maybe with a few spares > for backup) 200 GB or larger SATA drives set up in a software RAID 0+1 > or maybe RAID5. Firewire or SCSI would be nice as well as would an > outboard rack if you are going with many more drives than that. > Do you really need RAID for audio work? How many tracks do you use? Are you sure you couldn't get a way with a single IDE drive? > I run a Delta44 which works great under linux but do most of my actual > mixing and line-in in a seperate mixer. A Delta1010 should be > fantastic! > Good advice. The ice1712 driver works really well on linux. I also want to add another important thing to concider, which is noise. It can be better to degrade the performance a bit to also reduce the noise. Power hungry processors cause more heat inside the case, which cause the fans to go faster. Same with lots of harddisks, don't do that, only use one. Same with gfx card, don't buy a fancy fast one that either makes a lot of heat or have a large fan. You don't need a fast gfx card for audio use. You should also use most of your money on the power supply. Not because of stability problems, but because of noise problems. The power supply is usually the noisiest part in a computer, and buying an expensive silent one is well worth the money. It doesn't matter if it can support 500W, 300W or even 200W is usually enough, but it must be silent. From t_w_ at freenet.de Tue Dec 19 04:10:32 2006 From: t_w_ at freenet.de (Thorsten Wilms) Date: Tue Dec 19 04:11:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> Message-ID: <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:09:02PM +0000, Folderol wrote: > > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg Chinese in the alps, I would say ;) It's full of volksmusik phrases. If you want to get away from that, you should perhaps study some to not do what they do. 3/4 can only make it hard to get away from that. AFAIK some belly dancing music uses wicked time signatures like 9/8 or 7/8, so consider switching. The chinese touch could be emphasized by working out the pentatonic character, I guess. Aside all that, there's some notes that drag against the beat. -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil From ats at offog.org Tue Dec 19 04:28:13 2006 From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson) Date: Tue Dec 19 04:28:50 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack svn won't lash In-Reply-To: <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> (Brian Dunn's message of "Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:40:20 -0600") References: <200612141828.04282.njcross@sbcglobal.net> <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Brian Dunn writes: > I've compiled the svn version of jack-rack 1.4.5rc3, because the > 1.4.4 version is not connecting to my lash server. That'd be because the configure script's test for LASH was broken. I've just fixed it; please could you give the CVS version another go (remembering to rerun autogen.sh) and let me know if it works for you now? Thanks, -- Adam Sampson From lanas at securenet.net Tue Dec 19 07:41:23 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Tue Dec 19 07:49:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> Message-ID: <20061219074123.5f57e88e@mistral.stie> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:10:32 +0100 Thorsten Wilms ?crivait: > The chinese touch could be emphasized by working > out the pentatonic character, I guess. I've been listening to some Chinese music recently and one characteristic that's found here and there is the sliding of many notes towards what they end up to be. Like when painting a wall and doing a faux finish: a base coloured coat is applied and then a paler coat is put using a rag or somesuch. The target note is known but the instrument works its way towards it. Surely this is due to the nature of some of the traditional Chinese instruments. Apart from that, throwing a good amount of semitones would at least convey a clich? Middle Eastern mood. That'd be fun with the Alps background. I think Hubert von Goisern did some mix like that. Al From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Dec 19 09:36:33 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue Dec 19 09:36:52 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> Message-ID: <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 22:13 -0500, plutek wrote: > during shooting. we were going to feed the studio64-xtc LTC to both the > cameras and ardour, but had trouble locking cameras to that code -- i > actually think this may have been a problem with the feed from my end, > but we didn't have time to debug it. we ended up feeding > camera-generated LTC into ardour in realtime while shooting. what do you think ardour is going to do with timecode during recording? i just want to make sure that you're not thinking you could slave to it. you should never record while slaved to a non-sample-accurate clock source, and LTC is absolutely not sample accurate. slaving to timecode is useful during playback, not during recording. this is true of not just ardour, but everything else. if you want video/audio sync during recording, you need to use blackburst or some equivalent to provide a single clock source to the video and audio gear. this is actually preferable during playback too, but most people don't have the equipment for this. as was noted earlier, with digital audio, there are alternatives to using timecode anyway. From plutek at infinity.net Tue Dec 19 09:57:47 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Tue Dec 19 09:58:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> (from paul@linuxaudiosystems.com on Tue Dec 19 09:36:33 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> On 12/19/2006 09:36:33 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 22:13 -0500, plutek wrote: > > > during shooting. we were going to feed the studio64-xtc LTC to both > the > > cameras and ardour, but had trouble locking cameras to that code -- > i > > actually think this may have been a problem with the feed from my > end, > > but we didn't have time to debug it. we ended up feeding > > camera-generated LTC into ardour in realtime while shooting. > > what do you think ardour is going to do with timecode during > recording? > i just want to make sure that you're not thinking you could slave to > it. > you should never record while slaved to a non-sample-accurate clock > source, and LTC is absolutely not sample accurate. slaving to timecode > is useful during playback, not during recording. this is true of not > just ardour, but everything else. if you want video/audio sync during > recording, you need to use blackburst or some equivalent to provide a > single clock source to the video and audio gear. this is actually > preferable during playback too, but most people don't have the > equipment > for this. as was noted earlier, with digital audio, there are > alternatives to using timecode anyway. we were not trying to lock everything together (although the cameras were jam-synced together); we simply wanted to end up with the same timecode striped on a track of all devices, audio and video, as a reference for post. yes, i take your point about blackburst, and we'll see if we run into problems during post -- in the end, it should not be a huge issue because the video edits will allow some "munging" along the timeline. still, once we get to post, the ability to directly parse and lock to incoming LTC might simplify things. today i will be trying to lock with MTC via my opcode studio64-xtc, but it looks like ardour may be lacking the framerate i need for this project. the video producer used 29.97 non-drop. now, i must confess to some slight confusion about the real meaning of all the combinations of 29.97, 30, drop, and non-drop, but ardour 0.99.3 doesn't show any 29.97 options for MTC, so am i out of luck here? thanks! .pltk. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Dec 19 10:52:23 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue Dec 19 10:55:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> Message-ID: <1166543543.8255.166.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 09:57 -0500, plutek wrote: > today i will be trying to lock with MTC via my opcode studio64-xtc, but > it looks like ardour may be lacking the framerate i need for this > project. the video producer used 29.97 non-drop. now, i must confess to > some slight confusion about the real meaning of all the combinations of > 29.97, 30, drop, and non-drop, but ardour 0.99.3 doesn't show any 29.97 > options for MTC, so am i out of luck here? ardour2.0 supports several more frame rates,including 29.97. i don't think you can get ardour 0.99 to do so, but to be perfectly honest, i am not sure either :) --p From plutek at infinity.net Tue Dec 19 10:57:28 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Tue Dec 19 10:57:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> (from plutek@infinity.net on Tue Dec 19 09:57:47 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> Message-ID: <1166543848l.4044l.1l@paldesk> On 12/19/2006 09:57:47 AM, plutek wrote: > i must confess to some slight confusion about the real meaning of all > the combinations of 29.97, 30, drop, and non-drop, but ardour 0.99.3 > doesn't show any 29.97 options for MTC, so am i out of luck here? with further reading, i believe i have a clearer picture of smpte formats: --"30 non-drop" runs at 30 fps, with continuous counting. --"29.97 drop" is the same as "30 drop", running at 29.97 fps, and using discontinuous counting such that the frame times don't slip too much from normal timepieces over longer durations. --"29.97 non-drop" runs at 29.97 fps, with continuous counting - usually used in i.e. commercials which, due to their brevity do not get to the first dropped frame-count in the "drop" format. so, my understanding is that we have 2 out of the above 3 formats covered in ardour's MTC options, right? if one wishes to use "29.97 non-drop", it seems not currently possible. .pltk. From plutek at infinity.net Tue Dec 19 11:00:36 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Tue Dec 19 11:00:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <1166543543.8255.166.camel@localhost.localdomain> (from paul@linuxaudiosystems.com on Tue Dec 19 10:52:23 2006) References: <1166413569l.4186l.0l@paldesk> <45872C4E.8020300@gareus.org> <1166489865l.4182l.0l@paldesk> <458751F5.3090909@gareus.org> <1166498027l.4182l.3l@paldesk> <1166538993.8255.162.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1166540267l.4044l.0l@paldesk> <1166543543.8255.166.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1166544036l.4044l.2l@paldesk> On 12/19/2006 10:52:23 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 09:57 -0500, plutek wrote: > > > today i will be trying to lock with MTC via my opcode studio64-xtc, > but > > it looks like ardour may be lacking the framerate i need for this > > project. the video producer used 29.97 non-drop. now, i must confess > to > > some slight confusion about the real meaning of all the combinations > of > > 29.97, 30, drop, and non-drop, but ardour 0.99.3 doesn't show any > 29.97 > > options for MTC, so am i out of luck here? > > ardour2.0 supports several more frame rates,including 29.97. i don't > think you can get ardour 0.99 to do so, but to be perfectly honest, i > am > not sure either :) thanks paul.... i'll check it out and report back. looks like it's time for me to compile ardour2! .pltk. From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 19 11:37:52 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Tue Dec 19 11:38:10 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack wont lash In-Reply-To: <200612182146.27640.njcross@sbcglobal.net> References: <20061219030256.79DF24F97058@music.columbia.edu> <200612182146.27640.njcross@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <45881560.7040201@sbcglobal.net> njcross@sbcglobal.net wrote: > On Monday 18 December 2006 07:02 pm, Brian Dunn wrote: >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:40:20 -0600 >> From: Brian Dunn >> Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack svn won't lash >> To: A list for linux audio users >> Message-ID: <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> I've compiled the svn version of jack-rack 1.4.5rc3, because the 1.4.4 >> version is not connecting to my lash server. I've compiled the svn with >> ./configure --enable-lash, and, alas... still no lash entry is generated >> when the program is started. Has anyone had any luck with jack-rack and >> lash? I've tried to RTM... but I can't find any info on lash usage there >> or in the web site. > I used 1.4.4 patched with 'jack-rack-lash-shutdown2.diff' and that worked. > 1.4.3,1.4.4 and 1.4.5rc2(sic) alone wouldn't be lashd. > > That patch worked for me too. thanks! From christhemonkey at gmail.com Tue Dec 19 14:44:00 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Tue Dec 19 14:45:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Pd produces many Xruns In-Reply-To: <79eea87e0612180808p217daeb4xf3107700ba966dcd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061218013212.CA09A4F12D87@music.columbia.edu> <79eea87e0612180808p217daeb4xf3107700ba966dcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79eea87e0612191144o6de6f34dl9e6ab5d0ce34a2bf@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, chris beagles wrote: > On 12/18/06, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > > > "chris beagles": > > > > > > Today i tryed playing around with pd for the first time, and enabled > > > the audio system to use jack, which works fine except for: > > > > > > If I move the mouse and it crosses the boundary between two windows, I > > > then get reports of Xruns from within pd in the main window and the > > > sound crackles accordingly. > > > Qjackctl does not report any of these xruns. > > > > > > This is getting a little annoying and may leave me having to leave pd > > > for now as i need to utilise my mouse whilst using it. > > > > > > I am running Ubuntu Edgy with a 2.6.17-rt kernel and jack as realtime. > > > If I do not enable the audio system within pd then this problem does not occur. > > > > > > Any help much appreciated. > > > > > > > Did you start pd with the "-rt" switch? In case not, that will help. > > > > (PS. Always add the terminal switches you start a program with when asking > > for help) > > > > > > Ah sorry, didnt think to post how i launched it. > I had been launching it just from the gnome menu entry (ie, who knows > with what switches!) will try running it with -rt flag an if that > works change the menu entry accordingly. > > Chris. > Ok just to say launching pd with the -rt flag worked. I played around with it for about half an hour without a single xrun. If i get round to it might file a bug with the package maintainer about this... Cheers! Chris From plutek at infinity.net Tue Dec 19 15:24:39 2006 From: plutek at infinity.net (plutek) Date: Tue Dec 19 15:36:30 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SMPTE timecode reader In-Reply-To: <20061219101147.8901e56e.mdeboer@iua.upf.es> (from mdeboer@iua.upf.edu on Tue Dec 19 04:11:47 2006) References: <20061219101147.8901e56e.mdeboer@iua.upf.es> Message-ID: <1166559879l.4044l.3l@paldesk> On 12/19/2006 04:11:47 AM, Maarten de Boer wrote: > > hi, > > > generator, i am now interested also in software capable of parsing a > > > SMPTE timecode stream (audio, NOT MTC), and displaying the > > corresponding numerical timecode, as the audio track is running. > > you might want to check this SMPTE decoder code i wrote years ago: > > ftp://www.iua.upf.es/pub/mdeboer/projects/SMPTE/ thanks maarten! yes, your code seems to parse a wav file correctly from the command-line. it cannot currently take realtime audio input though, right? .pltk. From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Tue Dec 19 20:17:41 2006 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Tue Dec 19 20:18:56 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1166577461.5922.1.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 18:43 -0800, Tim Howard wrote: > Hello, > > I have a Radeon 9200SE video card in my computer which is running > FC5 + CCRMA. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on how to > install drivers for this without damaging my Linux installation? > > Also, since I'm using a "non-standard" kernel (CCRMA's > rt-something), does that mean I will have to recompile the kernel, or > what? Late to this thread but here it goes anyway... For radeon chipsets <= 9250 (you should be fine) hardware 3d acceleration is supported out of the box (the kernel module and the X support). It should work... see what frame rate you get from, for example, glxgears. I'm using 9250 cards myself with no problem. -- Fernando From daneasley at gmail.com Tue Dec 19 22:11:00 2006 From: daneasley at gmail.com (Dan Easley) Date: Tue Dec 19 22:13:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] very lengthy recordings Message-ID: please excuse the random spewing of ideas: i work at a radio station, and it would be awesome if i could record insanely long periods of time (for quality control). i'd love to be able to record 24/7, with new audio replacing old. a 400gig drive could hold two weeks of 16-bit 44.kHz stereo audio. how long could it survive constant writing? alternatively, are there any one-line commands that will simply record continuously to a series of files until a partition runs out of space? -- daneasley@gmail.com dan@towndowner.com dan@burntpossum.com http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com From fons at kokkinizita.net Wed Dec 20 04:57:24 2006 From: fons at kokkinizita.net (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed Dec 20 05:07:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] very lengthy recordings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061220095723.GA5849@linux-1.site> On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 10:11:00PM -0500, Dan Easley wrote: > i work at a radio station, and it would be awesome if i could record > insanely long periods of time (for quality control). > > i'd love to be able to record 24/7, with new audio replacing old. a > 400gig drive could hold two weeks of 16-bit 44.kHz stereo audio. how > long could it survive constant writing? A system for recording the output of a radio station was presented at the LAC2005, by people from the university of Bath. Here's the paper: . So I'd suggest to get in contact with John Ffitch (address in the paper). -- FA Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa. From J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk Wed Dec 20 05:34:54 2006 From: J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk (J M Needham) Date: Wed Dec 20 05:54:34 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! Message-ID: Hi all, So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the realtime-lsm module and I've added @audio - rtprio 80 @audio - memlock 500000 to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: 10:41:35.039 Startup script... 10:41:35.039 artsshell -q terminate sound server terminated 10:41:35.375 Startup script terminated successfully. 10:41:35.381 JACK is starting... 10:41:35.382 /usr/bin/jackd -R -u -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p32 -n2 -S 10:41:35.391 JACK was started with PID=5503 (0x157f). jackd 0.100.0 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details JACK compiled with System V SHM support. loading driver .. apparent rate = 44100 creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|32|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|16bit control device hw:0 configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture ALSA: cannot configure capture channel cannot load driver module alsa 10:41:35.502 JACK was stopped successfully. 10:41:37.430 Could not connect to JACK server as client. Please check the messages window for more info And I can't see anything of any use in here. Any ideas? Jonty From lars.luthman at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 06:40:53 2006 From: lars.luthman at gmail.com (Lars Luthman) Date: Wed Dec 20 06:41:02 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1166614853.11700.3.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 10:34 +0000, J M Needham wrote: > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > realtime-lsm module and I've added > @audio - rtprio 80 > @audio - memlock 500000 > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: > > 10:41:35.039 Startup script... > ... > configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods > ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > cannot load driver module alsa It looks like your hardware simply can't handle buffer sizes that small. -- Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061220/45889140/attachment.bin From atte.jensen at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 09:05:26 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Wed Dec 20 09:05:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] SE electronics USB2200a microphone, success report Message-ID: <45894326.40104@gmail.com> Hi I just bought a SE electronics USB2200a microphone (a 2200a with build-in usb sound card) and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was instantly recognized and working out of the box with linux. I understand that USB sound cards are not the best to go real low in latency, but with heavy load (13 parts in zyn, +10 tracks in ardour w fx + specimen + seq24) I was able to go to 23ms which is the same as the onboard on my laptop. With lighter loads it works well with lower latencies. Thought someone might be interested in this successful report... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From atte.jensen at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 09:12:43 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Wed Dec 20 09:12:54 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] usb2200a In-Reply-To: <456F3720.9000407@tobiah.org> References: <4564CA38.3040803@gmail.com> <456F3720.9000407@tobiah.org> Message-ID: <458944DB.6050903@gmail.com> st wrote: > This device may be convenient, but I don't like the idea of one piece > of equipment acting as the mic, the preamp and the ADC all at once. Well first: I just brought it home and it works flawlessly with linux. Secondly, it's actually a regular 2200a with an added usb sound card. For admittedly better audio quality you can simply not connect the usb and use it together with any preamp/adc combo. For now it's a big step up in quality for me and a convenient, all-in-one solution that'll exactly let me upgrade the weaker parts of the chain later... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk Wed Dec 20 09:27:55 2006 From: J.M.Needham at bath.ac.uk (J M Needham) Date: Wed Dec 20 09:28:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: <1166614853.11700.3.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: Ok, thanks Lars. I guess I'll be treating myself to an audiophile for Christmas unless anyone's got a better idea. On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Lars Luthman wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 10:34 +0000, J M Needham wrote: > > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > > realtime-lsm module and I've added > > @audio - rtprio 80 > > @audio - memlock 500000 > > > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, > > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving > > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: > > > > 10:41:35.039 Startup script... > > ... > > configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods > > ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture > > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > > cannot load driver module alsa > > It looks like your hardware simply can't handle buffer sizes that small. > > From jri at broadpark.no Wed Dec 20 12:34:05 2006 From: jri at broadpark.no (Johannes Mario Ringheim) Date: Wed Dec 20 12:34:19 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4589740D.7000104@broadpark.no> J M Needham wrote: > Hi all, > > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > realtime-lsm module and I've added > @audio - rtprio 80 > @audio - memlock 500000 > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: One quick tip: I just recently installed 6.10 (wich I guess you are referring to..?), and discovered a hackish-but-working method of getting RT in Ubuntu: Install the 64studio multimedia-kernel package. Works great here, I now got a rock steady 2.9ms on an el crap'o laptop soundcard, running with Beryl and Emerald! Didn't need to edit limits.conf. Now beat that, Windows... More here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=313612&highlight=realtime+kernel You won't get all modules etc from the ubuntu kernel, so if you need any of those that might require some more hacking. -- Ringheims Auto - Fri musikk for bilstereo! http://ringheimsauto.org From rlrevell at joe-job.com Wed Dec 20 12:53:15 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Wed Dec 20 12:53:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1166637196.17059.373.camel@mindpipe> On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 14:27 +0000, J M Needham wrote: > Ok, thanks Lars. I guess I'll be treating myself to an audiophile for > Christmas unless anyone's got a better idea. > These hardware constraints are defined in max/min bytes per period across all supported formats. So, to get lower latency, increase the channel count or sample rate. 64 frames at 44100Hz is ~1.45ms each way or 2.9ms (plus any hardware latency) round trip. At 48000Hz this would give 2.66ms, and at 96000Hz 1.33ms. Lee > > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Lars Luthman wrote: > > > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 10:34 +0000, J M Needham wrote: > > > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > > > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > > > realtime-lsm module and I've added > > > @audio - rtprio 80 > > > @audio - memlock 500000 > > > > > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, > > > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving > > > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > > > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: > > > > > > 10:41:35.039 Startup script... > > > ... > > > configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods > > > ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture > > > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > > > cannot load driver module alsa > > > > It looks like your hardware simply can't handle buffer sizes that small. > > > > > > From hans at fugal.net Wed Dec 20 15:06:32 2006 From: hans at fugal.net (Hans Fugal) Date: Wed Dec 20 15:06:47 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jackd forcing me to choose input or output exclusively Message-ID: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> On OS X on the MacBook, which has two input sources (mic and line in) and one output source. $ jackd -d coreaudio jackd 0.102.20 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details JACK compiled with POSIX SHM support. loading driver .. Default input and output devices are not the same !! Cannot open default device Cannot open the coreaudio driver cannot load driver module coreaudio no message buffer overruns 'jackd -d coreaudio -C' works fine, as does 'jackd -d coreaudio -P'. Fine as in it does what you expect, which is give you either capture or playback, but not both. The -l output is (snipped): Device name = 'Built-in Microphone', internal_name = 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' (to be used as -d parameter) Device name = 'Built-in Input', internal_name = 'AppleHDAEngineInput:2' (to be used as -d parameter) Device name = 'Built-in Output', internal_name = 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0' (to be used as -d parameter) I can select which capture device to use using the -d parameter. So if I do "jackd -d coreaudio -D -d 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1'" that doesn't crash, but gives me only capture and no playback. I've tried a few other variations on the theme, including things like "jackd -d coreaudio -C -d 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' -P -d 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0'" but to no avail. Am I missing something obvious? Has anyone else had this trouble? Thanks! -- Hans Fugal ; http://hans.fugal.net There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach From folderol at ukfsn.org Wed Dec 20 15:54:23 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Wed Dec 20 15:54:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> Message-ID: <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:10:32 +0100 Thorsten Wilms wrote: > On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:09:02PM +0000, Folderol wrote: > > > > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? > > > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg > > > Chinese in the alps, I would say ;) Well at least someone found SOME Chinese flavour! > It's full of volksmusik phrases. If you want to get away > from that, you should perhaps study some to not do what > they do. > > 3/4 can only make it hard to get away from that. AFAIK > some belly dancing music uses wicked time signatures > like 9/8 or 7/8, so consider switching. > > The chinese touch could be emphasized by working > out the pentatonic character, I guess. > > Aside all that, there's some notes that drag against > the beat. This is quite deliberate and will need refining, but is done to make the melody sound more lazy, almost careless. I would like to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions ... even though they weren't what I expected! I have done more development and the music has rather taken control of the direction. I don't think it would have been a good idea to try and shoe-horn it into a style it didn't fit. I think that would have ended up as a, not very good not very oriental, piece. However in recognition of it's starting point I've renamed it 'East To West' and I won't even attempt to define a style for it :) There is still a lot to do. http://www.musically.me.uk/music/East_To_West.ogg No typos this time! -- Will J G From cave.dnb at tiscali.fr Wed Dec 20 16:55:18 2006 From: cave.dnb at tiscali.fr (Nigel Henry) Date: Wed Dec 20 16:55:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> Message-ID: <200612202255.18999.cave.dnb@tiscali.fr> On Wednesday 20 December 2006 21:54, Folderol wrote: > On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:10:32 +0100 > > Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:09:02PM +0000, Folderol wrote: > > > It sort of conveys the idea of some sort of exotic caravan journey > > > across the ancient middle east. A small band of friends maybe? > > > > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/Orient.ogg > > > > > > Chinese in the alps, I would say ;) > > Well at least someone found SOME Chinese flavour! > > > It's full of volksmusik phrases. If you want to get away > > from that, you should perhaps study some to not do what > > they do. > > > > 3/4 can only make it hard to get away from that. AFAIK > > some belly dancing music uses wicked time signatures > > like 9/8 or 7/8, so consider switching. > > > > The chinese touch could be emphasized by working > > out the pentatonic character, I guess. > > > > Aside all that, there's some notes that drag against > > the beat. > > This is quite deliberate and will need refining, but is done to make > the melody sound more lazy, almost careless. > > > I would like to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions ... > even though they weren't what I expected! > > I have done more development and the music has rather taken control of > the direction. I don't think it would have been a good idea to try and > shoe-horn it into a style it didn't fit. I think that would have > ended up as a, not very good not very oriental, piece. > > However in recognition of it's starting point I've renamed it 'East To > West' and I won't even attempt to define a style for it :) > > There is still a lot to do. > > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/East_To_West.ogg > > No typos this time! Apologies for jumping in and updating the URL. Just trying to make it easier for folks to listen to your latest tune. Anyway Will, I like your rendition of Silent Night, especially the very nice key change in the last part of it. Thanks for sharing. Nigel. From steiner at block4.com Wed Dec 20 18:18:40 2006 From: steiner at block4.com (Malte Steiner) Date: Wed Dec 20 18:42:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio Message-ID: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> Hello, I recently gave 64 Studio a try and I am really impressed. It flys on my AMD Turion Laptop and everything is more snappy than under 32bit Ubuntu without Realtime Kernel. But I have some questions: - with the internal crappy soundcard I can go as low as 2.67ms, it really feels like my Hardware instruments. But with the expensive Hammerfall PCMCIA Card I cant get lower then 5.33 without getting xruns, even without instruments. I expected it would be the other way round so where should I look for optimizations? - formerly I gained some performance by switching to a light Windowmanager like Blackbox. Now I cant read any differences when I measure the load with top, whether I use Gnome or Blackbox. Its a bit strange in my opinion or did I miss a memo? Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: concert 29.dec 2006 Notstandskomitee vs. TBC Hoerbar Hamburg more at blog 4, also available as rss feed: http://java.block4.com/blog4/ From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Wed Dec 20 19:09:16 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:18:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> Message-ID: <1166659756.2907.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 00:18 +0100, Malte Steiner wrote: > Hello, > > I recently gave 64 Studio a try and I am really impressed. It flys on my > AMD Turion Laptop and everything is more snappy than under 32bit Ubuntu > without Realtime Kernel. But I have some questions: > > - with the internal crappy soundcard I can go as low as 2.67ms, it > really feels like my Hardware instruments. But with the expensive > Hammerfall PCMCIA Card I cant get lower then 5.33 without getting xruns, the RME cards can't run with a smaller frames-per-interrupt setting of 64. at 48kHz, thats 2.6msec round trip. any problems above that are h/w and s/w configuration. alas, there is so much to look at its hard to even list it all. googling for "linux real time audio latency" will find lots of stuff to provide you with clues. note that on many laptops, you will never solve the problems because the BIOS doesn't allow proper control over IRQ assignments (this is true of my laptop, for example). --p From ken at restivo.org Wed Dec 20 19:13:04 2006 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:20:44 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack_capture crashes jackd Message-ID: <20061221001304.GA22650@bc.restivo.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is not a big deal, because I decided to use ecasound instead (which works! yay!) but here's the details just incase anyone is interested: $ jack_capture cannot read result for request type 6 from server (No such file or directory) jackd watchdog: timeout - killing jackd Killed JACK error: zombified - calling shutdown handler jack_mgr_shutdown_cb: JACK server shut us down; telling server to quit Cleaning up JACK server shutdown detected, reopening in OSS mode JACK error: cannot send request type 7 to server JACK error: cannot read result for request type 7 from server (Broken pipe) jack_mgr_destroy: could not deactivate jack client JACK error: cannot send request type 7 to server JACK error: cannot read result for request type 7 from server (Broken pipe) Finished Huh? All other jack apps I have: rosegarden, fluidsynth, qjackctl, ardour, hydrogen, swami, etc, all work perfectly well. Ecasound works with no problems. But jack_capture tends to crash the whole server. Sad. This is with: $ uname -a Linux mac 2.6.18-1-preempt #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 15 17:25:10 PST 2006 i686 GNU/Linux $ jackd --version jackd version 0.101.1 tmpdir /dev/shm protocol 15 jack_capture-0.9.2 libsndfile1 1.0.16-1 $ jack_lsp alsa_pcm:capture_1 alsa_pcm:capture_2 alsa_pcm:playback_1 alsa_pcm:playback_2 alsa_pcm:playback_3 alsa_pcm:playback_4 alsa_pcm:playback_5 alsa_pcm:playback_6 alsa_pcm:playback_7 alsa_pcm:playback_8 mpg123_0:out_1 mpg123_0:out_2 processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 14 model name : Genuine Intel(R) CPU 1300 @ 1.66GHz stepping : 8 cpu MHz : 1666.785 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 2 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 6 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr bogomips : 3336.19 processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 14 model name : Genuine Intel(R) CPU 1300 @ 1.66GHz stepping : 8 cpu MHz : 1666.785 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 1 cpu cores : 2 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 6 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr bogomips : 3333.30 - -ken -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFidGQe8HF+6xeOIcRAqnMAKDjSjUO/k/yQApUN1baMDxt9CATQwCgiOTE zNM5kVB1eclXo64RId3IMfY= =BVEf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:39:55 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:40:09 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <8200bab70612201639x21f9c0bet6e4ebcfdbc124838@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Lee Revell wrote: > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 20:27 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > On 12/15/06, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote: > > > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > > > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on > > > > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very > > > > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In > > > > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in > > > > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of > > > > polish expected from a modern OS. > > > > > > Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking > > > to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have > > > more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA > > > installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two > > > different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT > > > patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. > > > > I find this incredibly hard to believe. Windows works for me with no > > snags, for the most part, and I've spent countless hours wrestling > > with several Linux distros trying to get even halfway acceptable > > latency, to no avail. Recompiling kernels, applying patches, > > re-prioritizing processes, etc. Windows has been phenomenally easier > > in that department, in my experience. I hope to solve this Linux > > business once and for all over break so that I can meet some deadlines > > using it next semester and finally start telling everyone how > > wonderful it is and how foolish they were for laughing at me throwing > > away endless hours on it. > > > > What sound hardware? Are you using a cheap laptop with the onboard > sound device or something? > > Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably > always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, > it's designed to work with Windows. > > On good hardware Linux should win. I heard the opposite, that Linux's advantages are especially noticeable on less fancy machines. But: http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_MX6447.shtml Will this work? If I can't use Linux audio on this machine then I can't afford Linux! From lanas at securenet.net Wed Dec 20 19:48:49 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:47:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Just JAMin Message-ID: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> Folks, I'm trying to use JAMin to see what it can bring to a mix. There's a problem when I start Ardour to record the JAMin mix. Here's what I do. I play the .wav tune (exported from Ardour where it was recorded) using Rezound. I start JAMin, I disconnect the Rezound outputs from alsa_pcm and connect them to JAMin's input. Then I connect JAMin's outputs to alsa_pcm (all using qjackctl). So I play the tune and adjust stuff in JAMin while listening to the tune. Now I start Ardour to record the mix. I create a new session and add a stereo track. As soon as the stereo track is added the sound becomes ugly and boomy. I look at qjackctl and see there's a ton of new connections made by Ardour. I try to do a 'disconnect all' but all the ardour connections are staying there. Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using Ardour ? Or, is there another way to use JAMin to modify the final mix of a tune originally recorded in Ardour ? Al From perodog at gmx.net Wed Dec 20 19:57:24 2006 From: perodog at gmx.net (Dragan Noveski) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:56:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <4589DBF4.2000203@gmx.net> lanas wrote: > Folks, > > I'm trying to use JAMin to see what it can bring to a mix. There's > a problem when I start Ardour to record the JAMin mix. > > Here's what I do. > > I play the .wav tune (exported from Ardour where it was recorded) > using Rezound. I start JAMin, I disconnect the Rezound outputs from > alsa_pcm and connect them to JAMin's input. Then I connect JAMin's > outputs to alsa_pcm (all using qjackctl). > > So I play the tune and adjust stuff in JAMin while listening to the > tune. > > Now I start Ardour to record the mix. I create a new session and > add a stereo track. As soon as the stereo track is added the sound > becomes ugly and boomy. I look at qjackctl and see there's a ton of > new connections made by Ardour. I try to do a 'disconnect all' but > all the ardour connections are staying there. > this is anormal, i am using ardour and jamin just that way you are describing but i can?t report that behavior. > Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using Ardour ? > sure, you can use any other recording tool like jack_capture, timemachine, qarecord ... i think there are lot of them. > Or, is there another way to use JAMin to modify the final mix of a > tune originally recorded in Ardour ? > i think you do have to "re-record". cheers, doc > Al > > From lanas at securenet.net Wed Dec 20 20:00:35 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Wed Dec 20 19:59:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Getting Nvidia drivers to work with CCRMA In-Reply-To: <1166577461.5922.1.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> References: <1166577461.5922.1.camel@cmn3.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20061220200035.4db2cd92@mistral.stie> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 17:17:41 -0800 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano ?crivait: > For radeon chipsets <= 9250 [...] Sticking to the subject line, what's the recommended procedure to use the Nvidia driver with CCRMA ? I tried once several months ago, following the advice ona web site (whose URL I do not have now) and ended up re-installing the whole system (Fedora + CCRMA) since I ended up with somethign vrey wrong in the graphics display. Thanks, Al From jh at brainiac.com Wed Dec 20 20:22:46 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Wed Dec 20 20:22:59 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <20061220202246.e67b1a0d.jh@brainiac.com> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:48:49 -0500 lanas wrote: > I play the .wav tune (exported from Ardour where it was recorded) > using Rezound. I start JAMin, I disconnect the Rezound outputs from > alsa_pcm and connect them to JAMin's input. Then I connect JAMin's > outputs to alsa_pcm (all using qjackctl). That is really the long way around! > Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using Ardour ? I usually add an insert to the master channel in Ardour and connect it to JAMin. Then when it sounds the way I want, I simply do an export. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:44:24 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Wed Dec 20 20:45:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> Message-ID: <8200bab70612201744y7413817blcc0fb577d02e490e@mail.gmail.com> On 12/20/06, Folderol wrote: > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/East_To_West.ogg > > No typos this time! I can't load it... Did you take it down? From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:55:10 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Wed Dec 20 20:55:48 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <20061219074123.5f57e88e@mistral.stie> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> <20061219074123.5f57e88e@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <8200bab70612201755o1ec1a2b2m1fe05b2cb6f3f8b9@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/06, lanas wrote: > On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:10:32 +0100 > Thorsten Wilms ?crivait: > > > The chinese touch could be emphasized by working > > out the pentatonic character, I guess. > > I've been listening to some Chinese music recently and one > characteristic that's found here and there is the sliding of many > notes towards what they end up to be. Like when painting a wall and > doing a faux finish: a base coloured coat is applied and then a paler > coat is put using a rag or somesuch. The target note is known but the > instrument works its way towards it. Surely this is due to the nature > of some of the traditional Chinese instruments. http://www.chrysalis-foundation.org/China's_Ch'in.htm One thing most people don't know is that occasionally the 8/7 frequency ratio came up on the Ch'in. If your finger is where the 8th harmonic would be, i.e. 1/8th of the string, and you press down to stop the string, the string length goes to 7/8 of full length, producing the 8/7 frequency, which goes against everything else in the system. This link has lots of info. > > Apart from that, throwing a good amount of semitones would at least > convey a clich? Middle Eastern mood. That'd be fun with the Alps > background. This book is one of the best resources on Islamic tunings I've found: http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~larry/published_articles/divisions_of_the_tetrachord/index.html Mostly focusing on Greek tunings, but also addressing the alterations the Islamic theorists made to the Greek systems. Also, http://www.chrysalis-foundation.org/Al-Farabi's_'Uds.htm (I skip down past all the writing to the tables usually) Al Farabi was the man to know. I know most people aren't interested in tuning, but for those who are curious, check it out. -Chuckk -- "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." -Theodore Roosevelt From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:58:27 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Wed Dec 20 20:59:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> Message-ID: <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> On 12/20/06, Malte Steiner wrote: > Hello, > > I recently gave 64 Studio a try and I am really impressed. It flys on my > AMD Turion Laptop and everything is more snappy than under 32bit Ubuntu > without Realtime Kernel. But I have some questions: Wow, what did you do? I have a Turion laptop and 64studio gives me xruns in jackd at 46.4 ms. From jack.oquin at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:59:39 2006 From: jack.oquin at gmail.com (Jack O'Quin) Date: Wed Dec 20 20:59:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> Message-ID: On 12/20/06, lanas wrote: > Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using Ardour ? > > Or, is there another way to use JAMin to modify the final mix of a > tune originally recorded in Ardour ? I generally connect the outputs of the ardour mix to jamin, then connect the jamin outputs to another a new "mastered" stereo track as well as the normal playback channels. Then, I play around with the mastering controls until I like the sound. Next, rewind the session and record-enable the "mastered" output track to record the jamin results. Finally, export the "mastered" output with the appropriate sample rate, dithering as needed. -- joq From rlrevell at joe-job.com Wed Dec 20 21:00:28 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Wed Dec 20 21:01:12 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jackd forcing me to choose input or output exclusively In-Reply-To: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> References: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> Message-ID: <1166666428.26725.55.camel@mindpipe> On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 13:06 -0700, Hans Fugal wrote: > "jackd -d coreaudio -C -d 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' -P -d > 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0'" > but to no avail. > Maybe "jackd -d coreaudio -C 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' -P 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0'"? That's the ALSA syntax for using different devices... Lee From markknecht at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 21:04:18 2006 From: markknecht at gmail.com (Mark Knecht) Date: Wed Dec 20 21:07:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <5bdc1c8b0612201804h2bb672des25cdc96a37bdbb1b@mail.gmail.com> On 12/20/06, lanas wrote: > Folks, > > I'm trying to use JAMin to see what it can bring to a mix. There's > a problem when I start Ardour to record the JAMin mix. > > Here's what I do. > > I play the .wav tune (exported from Ardour where it was recorded) > using Rezound. I start JAMin, I disconnect the Rezound outputs from > alsa_pcm and connect them to JAMin's input. Then I connect JAMin's > outputs to alsa_pcm (all using qjackctl). > > So I play the tune and adjust stuff in JAMin while listening to the > tune. > > Now I start Ardour to record the mix. I create a new session and > add a stereo track. As soon as the stereo track is added the sound > becomes ugly and boomy. Hi, I suspect from your description that you are hearing a bad phasing problem. It sounds like when you connected the output of Jamin to the input of Ardour that you did not disconnect Jamin from alsa_pcm so you are now hearing the output of Jamin twice with the second delayed through Jack and Ardour. Make sure that you have a single audio path through the system and you should be fine. Hope this helps a little, Mark From rlrevell at joe-job.com Wed Dec 20 21:04:29 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Wed Dec 20 21:07:24 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> Message-ID: <1166666670.26725.60.camel@mindpipe> On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 00:18 +0100, Malte Steiner wrote: > - formerly I gained some performance by switching to a light > Windowmanager like Blackbox. Now I cant read any differences when I > measure the load with top, whether I use Gnome or Blackbox. Its a bit > strange in my opinion or did I miss a memo? > The Gnome developers finally started taking performance seriously a year or two ago and they have done a great job. Also the realtime kernel makes it much less likely that any display activity will perturb your audio. Unless you're stuck with a massively underpowered machine, use the WM that has the features you want. They all perform OK these days. Lee From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Wed Dec 20 21:59:57 2006 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Wed Dec 20 22:00:26 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612201639x21f9c0bet6e4ebcfdbc124838@mail.gmail.com> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612201639x21f9c0bet6e4ebcfdbc124838@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166669997.2907.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 19:39 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably > > always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, > > it's designed to work with Windows. > > > > On good hardware Linux should win. > > I heard the opposite, that Linux's advantages are especially > noticeable on less fancy machines. But: that is true in the general sense that linux will run on h/w that windows has abandoned. but its not the case where the problem is that the h/w is relatively new, the chipset vendor has done nothing to facilitate a linux driver, and nobody has had the time or motivation to reverse engineer one. this is true for some significant bits of audio h/w. then there is the problem of the Intel HDA "specification", which is that in name only. it seems as if almost every new laptop that emerges into the market has found a new way to wire the pinouts of a supposedly "standard" HDA chipset, thus requiring more driver hacks. > http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_MX6447.shtml > Will this work? If I can't use Linux audio on this machine then I > can't afford Linux! there isn't enough information there to decide. the chances are good, but without knowing the actual audio chipset, nobody can say. --p From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Thu Dec 21 05:20:45 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen ) Date: Thu Dec 21 05:21:16 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: jack_capture crashes jackd In-Reply-To: <20061221001304.GA22650@bc.restivo.org> References: <20061221001304.GA22650@bc.restivo.org> Message-ID: <49572.80.203.78.199.1166696445.squirrel@webmail.uio.no> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > This is not a big deal, because I decided to use ecasound instead (which > works! yay!) but here's the details just incase anyone is interested: > > $ jack_capture > cannot read result for request type 6 from server (No such file or > directory) > Thanks for the bug report. That was a horrible bug only present in 0.9.2. Fixed now. New version is uploaded. http://www.notam02.no/arkiv/src/jack_capture-0.9.3.tar.gz From nescivi at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 05:24:43 2006 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Thu Dec 21 05:29:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jackd forcing me to choose input or output exclusively In-Reply-To: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> References: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> Message-ID: <200612211124.42572.nescivi@gmail.com> Hi, On Wednesday 20 December 2006 21:06, Hans Fugal wrote: > On OS X on the MacBook, which has two input sources (mic and line in) > and one output source. > Am I missing something obvious? Has anyone else had this trouble? > I believe this has to do with the new way in which the MacBook handles its output and input. You have to create an "Aggregate Device", combining the input and output module, in the Audio/MIDI setup panel. Then you should be able to start JACK using this Aggregate Device, and have both input and output. I had to do the same to get SuperCollider to use both input and output. sincerely, Marije From october001 at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 02:34:54 2006 From: october001 at gmail.com (Jon H) Date: Thu Dec 21 08:11:57 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW In-Reply-To: References: <20061218191437.2CD504F6DC62@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On 12/19/06, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: > > > October: > > > > Hello Mark! > > > > Coincidently a similar question was asked on a list many of us are > > members on the very same day you submitted your questions! It might > > serve you well to follow that thread too: > > > > http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/users/2006-December/011707.html > > > > Basically I build pretty much the same machine I would build for > > serious "gaming", perhaps dropped back a few notches on the video card. > > The motherboard and PSU being the true heart of the system, it's > > certainly no place to skimp! Asus has long been my favorite brand of > > motherboard... out of the last dozen or so machines I've built around > > their boards I've only had one with problems and their 3 year warranty > > is genuine. > > > > I second that. Asus is a safe one. But even more important is the chipset > in use, because not everyone works very well with linux. Personally, I > have always had good experience with via or intel, but I have heard SiS > is working fine too. Stay away from nvidia, at least the newest models. > (the older the chipset, the less problems you will have) I disagree. I've built on Asus boards for linux several times now including the SiS chipsets, which worked just fine, and the latest nforce4 chipsets which also performed under a modern kernel and distro just dandy "out of the box". Nvidia is linux friend :D > Power Supply needs to be rated at least 500w, higher if you are going > > to run a RAID or something in the case. Enermax is my pick for best > > value, PC Power & Cooling if you have a bunch of extra money to spend, > > Antec and Thermaltake seem to also be popular brands. Don't try to save > > money on a bargain brand power supply! It will come back to haunt you, > > for sure! > > > > As much RAM as you can afford to put in the system is good... my > > current machine has 2x1024 DDR and I'll probably double that to 4 gigs > in > > the future. Processor should be fast but doesn't need to be bleeding > > edge either and multiple cores are not well supported (yet) so while you > > can buy top end CPU(s) for future-proofing just don't expect to get the > > full worth out of them immediately. Same can be said with running a > > 64bit. There are 64bit distros out there that are "usable" but at the > > moment are probably better recommended for developers and bug-hunters > > than for serious audio production. I currently run a 32bit debian based > > linux on a 64bit AMD single core but Intel should serve you well also... > > more of a matter of personal preference here as far as brand goes. > > > > I mentioned video cards... I really prefer nvidia under linux, due to > > the quality of the proprietary drivers and ease of installation, and > > This is a bad advice. The proprietary drivers from nvidia cause xruns, and > should be avoided. But older (ie. at least 2-3 year old) nvidia cards can > be used with the open nv driver instead, which I will recommend, because I > have had experience with numerous nvidia gfx cards, and have had very > little problem. Actually anything you do visually will require a video card. The more capable the card and the drivers the less resources it will take away from the remaining system that is busy processing your audio. With a good video card that handles the majority of graphical rendering I experience almost NO xruns, that's at 5.8ms latency using an onboard (nforce4) chipset, and lower than that with a dedicated soundcard like the M-Audio stuff. Relying on the CPU and system ram to render FFT graphics and such will cause xruns, a good video card will not. Further more gaming is pretty much on the forefront of graphics as far as linux is concerned. Gamers under linux means big money to any game company that chooses to support linux as well as hardware manufacturers like Nvidia or ATI. I know you aren't talking about wanting to play games here but any piece of hardware that is optimized for gaming WILL be optimized for audio as well, I guarantee it. Nvidia's proprietary drivers work quite well. I can't really comment on ATI's drivers because I've long been an Nvidia fan. > dual monitor (dvi) is something I couldn't live without in my studio. > > Currently I run 2 x 21" Dell CRT for a combined desktop of 3200x1200 > > which makes tending to several music apps at the same time much easier > > than crowding everything together on a single screen. Any mid-range > > gaming card should do this well. Plan on spending at least US$100 here > > (monitors extra!) > > > > Well, not everyone thinks so. Using a descent windows manager, where you > can change virtual screen quickly, makes multiple monitors unnecessary. > What is faster, moving your head or eyes (where you have to refocus) to > look at a different screen. Or, pressing a button on your keyboard? In > windows, with its horrible unconfigurable interface, I guess it can make > sence, but in X, you don't need more than one monitor. When I'm composing music I'd rather not have to touch the keyboard at all. Most modern video cards support multiple monitors these days... why not make use of it? Half the desktop space when you don't have to? Why? Throw a dozen samples at Ardour (plus it's mixer), envy24control, qjackctl, seq24, plus a handful of DSSI or VSTi plugins and you have a very busy desktop. Why worry about flipping between virtual desktops when you can see all of it at the same time? > I run a pair of Western Digital IDE drives but if I could afford the > > upgrade I really want it would be at least four (maybe with a few spares > > for backup) 200 GB or larger SATA drives set up in a software RAID 0+1 > > or maybe RAID5. Firewire or SCSI would be nice as well as would an > > outboard rack if you are going with many more drives than that. > > > > Do you really need RAID for audio work? How many tracks do you use? > Are you sure you couldn't get a way with a single IDE drive? The original thread asked a question about rack mounted arrays. RAID is a natural for this discussion. If I'm recording several takes of several live feeds I can easily burn up many gigs of storage in a single session. Also the cost of harddrives is going down rapidly. Soft RAID now offers an easy and relatively inexpensive way to not only increase storage performance but redundancy at the same time. I wouldn't consult on a serious studio setup without pushing for redundant storage regardless. Anything worth recording is worth protecting, don't you think? > I run a Delta44 which works great under linux but do most of my actual > > mixing and line-in in a seperate mixer. A Delta1010 should be > > fantastic! > > > > Good advice. The ice1712 driver works really well on linux. > > > I also want to add another important thing to concider, which is noise. > It can be better to degrade the performance a bit to also reduce the > noise. Power hungry processors cause more heat inside the case, which > cause the fans to go faster. Same with lots of harddisks, don't do > that, only use one. Same with gfx card, don't buy a fancy fast one that > either makes a lot of heat or have a large fan. You don't need a fast gfx > card for audio use. You should also use most of your money on the power > supply. Not because of stability problems, but because of noise problems. > The power supply is usually the noisiest part in a computer, and buying > an expensive silent one is well worth the money. It doesn't matter if it > can support 500W, 300W or even 200W is usually enough, but it must be > silent. I run an Enermax 500w "Liberty" in my personal studio machine. It is so quiet that for a long time I would catch myself holding my hand by the back of the case, on occasion, to make sure it was actually moving air at all! It uses a 120mm fan at relatively low RPM to do the cooling. An excellent unit. Other companies make similar hardware as well. As for graphics card? It is exactly as Kjetil has said, without meaning to, I'm sure... it's *either* "a lot of heat OR a large fan". Which do you prefer? Modern cards, at least Nvidia's, are almost dead silent in relation to ambient noise levels in a recording enviroment. Especially if you plan on running anything that requires OpenGL accelloration or VSTi compatibility, as many of them are quite graphically intensive. If you run dual monitors as I have suggested then *definately* pass on anything that doesn't have dedicated active cooling! Anything that relies on passive cooling (without getting into water cooling and other exotics) is just asking for trouble in this sort of enviroment. Just my US$0.02 worth! Jon Hoskins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061219/0648182e/attachment-0001.html From jamesmstone at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 06:36:37 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Thu Dec 21 08:12:11 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48d2154d0612200336n328595caufe361d0d9f5943c5@mail.gmail.com> You don't need the realtime-lsm module any more. That has been superceded by rtlimits. 5ms sounds pretty good to me.. depends what card you are using. I get 20ms (512) for full duplex with SBLive! with no xruns, which is fine for my purposes. If you really want to push the envelope with realtime, you need to install the realtime kernel patches, see: http://www.osadl.org/projects-realtime-kernel.0.html and http://people.redhat.com/mingo/realtime-preempt/ but it is possible that your sound card might not be able to do this, unless it is a proper audiophile quality one.. James On 12/20/06, J M Needham wrote: > > Hi all, > > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > realtime-lsm module and I've added > @audio - rtprio 80 > @audio - memlock 500000 > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems ok, > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's behaving > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: > > 10:41:35.039 Startup script... > 10:41:35.039 artsshell -q terminate > sound server terminated > 10:41:35.375 Startup script terminated successfully. > 10:41:35.381 JACK is starting... > 10:41:35.382 /usr/bin/jackd -R -u -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p32 -n2 -S > 10:41:35.391 JACK was started with PID=5503 (0x157f). > jackd 0.100.0 > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > JACK compiled with System V SHM support. > loading driver .. > apparent rate = 44100 > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|32|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|16bit > control device hw:0 > configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods > ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > cannot load driver module alsa > 10:41:35.502 JACK was stopped successfully. > 10:41:37.430 Could not connect to JACK server as client. Please check the > messages window for more info > > And I can't see anything of any use in here. Any ideas? > > Jonty > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061220/9ca2cbca/attachment.html From jamesmstone at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 09:45:46 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Thu Dec 21 08:12:23 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] MOre realtime! In-Reply-To: References: <1166614853.11700.3.camel@c213-100-20-29.swipnet.se> Message-ID: <48d2154d0612200645o15344b07xacb0d6fb9eec05cf@mail.gmail.com> The M-Audio Delta 1010 has good reviews, and apparently works well under linux, but is pretty costly. James On 12/20/06, J M Needham wrote: > > Ok, thanks Lars. I guess I'll be treating myself to an audiophile for > Christmas unless anyone's got a better idea. > > > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Lars Luthman wrote: > > > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 10:34 +0000, J M Needham wrote: > > > So I've just installed Ubuntu 6.09, and followed the instructions on > > > http://fort2.xdas.com/~kor/oss2jack/install.html to install the > > > realtime-lsm module and I've added > > > @audio - rtprio 80 > > > @audio - memlock 500000 > > > > > > to /etc/security/limits.conf and set the realtime mode on Jack. Seems > ok, > > > the only thing is that I can't get below 5.8 ms latency. Jack's > behaving > > > nicely with very few xruns, but won't do any better. The output of the > > > messages with 32 frames for capture, for example, is: > > > > > > 10:41:35.039 Startup script... > > > ... > > > configuring for 44100Hz, period = 32 frames, buffer = 2 periods > > > ALSA: cannot set period size to 32 frames for capture > > > ALSA: cannot configure capture channel > > > cannot load driver module alsa > > > > It looks like your hardware simply can't handle buffer sizes that small. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061220/d9afbdd8/attachment.html From jamesmstone at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 10:13:27 2006 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Thu Dec 21 08:12:35 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] very lengthy recordings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48d2154d0612200713g47bfdf9cja5aee2e1f14d08ca@mail.gmail.com> Have you looked at campware? It provides open source software solutions to run radio stations: http://www.campware.org/ Not sure if it supports the sound backup you are wanting. A simple bash script calling arecord to save date and timestamped files for a fixed duration should be able to do the job though (as long as you are using alsa!). something like: #!/bin/bash while [ 1 ] do arecord -d 86400 -r 44100 -t wav soundbackup`date "+%H%m%d%y"`.wav done (haven't tested this so it may not work, but you get the idea!) James On 12/20/06, Dan Easley wrote: > > please excuse the random spewing of ideas: > > i work at a radio station, and it would be awesome if i could record > insanely long periods of time (for quality control). > > i'd love to be able to record 24/7, with new audio replacing old. a > 400gig drive could hold two weeks of 16-bit 44.kHz stereo audio. how > long could it survive constant writing? > > alternatively, are there any one-line commands that will simply record > continuously to a series of files until a partition runs out of space? > > -- > daneasley@gmail.com > dan@towndowner.com dan@burntpossum.com > http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061220/f19ae9ae/attachment.html From jayv at synth.net Thu Dec 21 08:17:16 2006 From: jayv at synth.net (Jay Vaughan) Date: Thu Dec 21 08:21:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Usable linux accompaniment software? In-Reply-To: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> References: <1166467143.15763.43.camel@xornot-ubuntu> Message-ID: >I intend to start working on learning tunes in a big way this year and >would ideally like to come up with an integrated toolset that I can use >to make lead sheets the way I like them, and from the same data files >generate halfway usable auto-accompaniment tracks. System could >preferably run on linux and OSX under fink. Opinions? I've hacked with MMA .. its getting a lot of cohesive updates lately it seems, and it certainly seems feasible that you could feed it your own jazz.mid files for experimenting with .. was pretty easy to set up and use on my Ubuntu (edgy) box anyway .. http://www.mellowood.ca/mma/ http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?board=21.0 -- ; Jay Vaughan From hans at fugal.net Thu Dec 21 09:55:23 2006 From: hans at fugal.net (Hans Fugal) Date: Thu Dec 21 09:55:37 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jackd forcing me to choose input or output exclusively In-Reply-To: <1166666428.26725.55.camel@mindpipe> References: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> <1166666428.26725.55.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <20061221145523.GA13558@falcon.fugal.net> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 at 21:00 -0500, Lee Revell wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 13:06 -0700, Hans Fugal wrote: > > "jackd -d coreaudio -C -d 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' -P -d > > 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0'" > > but to no avail. > > > > > Maybe "jackd -d coreaudio -C 'AppleHDAEngineInput:1' -P > 'AppleHDAEngineOutput:0'"? That's the ALSA syntax for using different > devices... That's good to know. I did try that on a whim and it gave me only inputs. -- Hans Fugal ; http://hans.fugal.net There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach From hans at fugal.net Thu Dec 21 09:56:06 2006 From: hans at fugal.net (Hans Fugal) Date: Thu Dec 21 09:56:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jackd forcing me to choose input or output exclusively In-Reply-To: <200612211124.42572.nescivi@gmail.com> References: <20061220200631.GA18854@falcon.fugal.net> <200612211124.42572.nescivi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061221145606.GB13558@falcon.fugal.net> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 at 11:24 +0100, nescivi wrote: > Hi, > > On Wednesday 20 December 2006 21:06, Hans Fugal wrote: > > On OS X on the MacBook, which has two input sources (mic and line in) > > and one output source. > > > Am I missing something obvious? Has anyone else had this trouble? > > > > I believe this has to do with the new way in which the MacBook handles its > output and input. > > You have to create an "Aggregate Device", combining the input and output > module, in the Audio/MIDI setup panel. > Then you should be able to start JACK using this Aggregate Device, and have > both input and output. > > I had to do the same to get SuperCollider to use both input and output. Many thanks, that did the trick! Though I think it's odd that the syntax Lee mentioned works for ALSA but not in OS X. -- Hans Fugal ; http://hans.fugal.net There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach From k.s.matheussen at notam02.no Thu Dec 21 09:57:01 2006 From: k.s.matheussen at notam02.no (Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen) Date: Thu Dec 21 09:58:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: New member wants to build a reliable DAW Message-ID: "Jon H": >>> serve you well to follow that thread too: >>> >>> http://lists.agnula.org/pipermail/users/2006-December/011707.html >>> >>> Basically I build pretty much the same machine I would build for >>> serious "gaming", perhaps dropped back a few notches on the video card. >>> The motherboard and PSU being the true heart of the system, it's >>> certainly no place to skimp! Asus has long been my favorite brand of >>> motherboard... out of the last dozen or so machines I've built around >>> their boards I've only had one with problems and their 3 year warranty >>> is genuine. >>> >> >> I second that. Asus is a safe one. But even more important is the chipset >> in use, because not everyone works very well with linux. Personally, I >> have always had good experience with via or intel, but I have heard SiS >> is working fine too. Stay away from nvidia, at least the newest models. >> (the older the chipset, the less problems you will have) > > > I disagree. I've built on Asus boards for linux several times now including > the SiS chipsets, which worked just fine, and the latest nforce4 chipsets > which also performed under a modern kernel and distro just dandy "out of the > box". Nvidia is linux friend :D > Nvidia is not a linux friend because it doesn't give specifications, at least as far as I know. If the latest nforce chipsets suddenly have started to behave nice for linux, thats good though. >>> than for serious audio production. I currently run a 32bit debian based >>> linux on a 64bit AMD single core but Intel should serve you well also... >>> more of a matter of personal preference here as far as brand goes. >>> >>> I mentioned video cards... I really prefer nvidia under linux, due to >>> the quality of the proprietary drivers and ease of installation, and >> >> This is a bad advice. The proprietary drivers from nvidia cause xruns, and >> should be avoided. But older (ie. at least 2-3 year old) nvidia cards can >> be used with the open nv driver instead, which I will recommend, because I >> have had experience with numerous nvidia gfx cards, and have had very >> little problem. > > > Actually anything you do visually will require a video card. The more > capable the card and the drivers the less resources it will take away from > the remaining system that is busy processing your audio. With a good video No, you are wrong. This does not matter because the audio programs runs with something called "Realtime Priority". Which means that as far as the graphic card drivers itself doesn't cause xruns because its programmed the wrong way (which is the case for the nvidia driver [1]), the choise of graphic card does not cause more or less xruns. [1] I think there is only have observational data for this claim though, because the source is not available. But it is revealing that when I change to the VESA driver, all the xruns dissappear. (Yes, I have to use the nvidia driver, the nv driver doesn't work for mine) > card that handles the majority of graphical rendering I experience almost NO > xruns, that's at 5.8ms latency using an onboard (nforce4) chipset, and lower > than that with a dedicated soundcard like the M-Audio stuff. Relying on the > CPU and system ram to render FFT graphics and such will cause xruns, a good > video card will not. > Thats not correct. Read what I wrote above. > Further more gaming is pretty much on the forefront of graphics as far as > linux is concerned. Gamers under linux means big money to any game company > that chooses to support linux as well as hardware manufacturers like Nvidia > or ATI. I know you aren't talking about wanting to play games here but any > piece of hardware that is optimized for gaming WILL be optimized for audio > as well, I guarantee it. > Nope, as long as the audio software is somewhat properly programmed, your claim is plain wrong. > Nvidia's proprietary drivers work quite well. I > can't really comment on ATI's drivers because I've long been an Nvidia fan. If you can get the nv driver to work, you should use that one. Then you might get rid of those last xruns. Do also try the VESA driver. >> dual monitor (dvi) is something I couldn't live without in my studio. >>> Currently I run 2 x 21" Dell CRT for a combined desktop of 3200x1200 >>> which makes tending to several music apps at the same time much easier >>> than crowding everything together on a single screen. Any mid-range >>> gaming card should do this well. Plan on spending at least US$100 here >>> (monitors extra!) >>> >> >> Well, not everyone thinks so. Using a descent windows manager, where you >> can change virtual screen quickly, makes multiple monitors unnecessary. >> What is faster, moving your head or eyes (where you have to refocus) to >> look at a different screen. Or, pressing a button on your keyboard? In >> windows, with its horrible unconfigurable interface, I guess it can make >> sence, but in X, you don't need more than one monitor. > > > When I'm composing music I'd rather not have to touch the keyboard at all. Really? Well, in that case, having more monitors might make sence. How do you compose? > Most modern video cards support multiple monitors these days... why not make > use of it? Half the desktop space when you don't have to? Why? Throw a > dozen samples at Ardour (plus it's mixer), envy24control, qjackctl, seq24, > plus a handful of DSSI or VSTi plugins and you have a very busy desktop. > Why worry about flipping between virtual desktops when you can see all of it > at the same time? > I guess it differse between person to person, but personally, I find it much more convenient to press a key rather than to start looking at a different monitor. >> I run a pair of Western Digital IDE drives but if I could afford the >>> upgrade I really want it would be at least four (maybe with a few spares >>> for backup) 200 GB or larger SATA drives set up in a software RAID 0+1 >>> or maybe RAID5. Firewire or SCSI would be nice as well as would an >>> outboard rack if you are going with many more drives than that. >>> >> >> Do you really need RAID for audio work? How many tracks do you use? >> Are you sure you couldn't get a way with a single IDE drive? > > > The original thread asked a question about rack mounted arrays. RAID is a > natural for this discussion. If I'm recording several takes of several live > feeds I can easily burn up many gigs of storage in a single session. Also > the cost of harddrives is going down rapidly. Soft RAID now offers an easy > and relatively inexpensive way to not only increase storage performance but > redundancy at the same time. I wouldn't consult on a serious studio setup > without pushing for redundant storage regardless. Anything worth recording > is worth protecting, don't you think? > No, its a waste of time and money. The money part is obvious, the time part comes from building and configuring, but the most important reason is that it highers the risk of losing data in case one of your harddisks break down. Another harddisk also generates more heat -> making more noise. >> I run a Delta44 which works great under linux but do most of my actual >>> mixing and line-in in a seperate mixer. A Delta1010 should be >>> fantastic! >>> >> >> Good advice. The ice1712 driver works really well on linux. >> >> >> I also want to add another important thing to concider, which is noise. >> It can be better to degrade the performance a bit to also reduce the >> noise. Power hungry processors cause more heat inside the case, which >> cause the fans to go faster. Same with lots of harddisks, don't do >> that, only use one. Same with gfx card, don't buy a fancy fast one that >> either makes a lot of heat or have a large fan. You don't need a fast gfx >> card for audio use. You should also use most of your money on the power >> supply. Not because of stability problems, but because of noise problems. >> The power supply is usually the noisiest part in a computer, and buying >> an expensive silent one is well worth the money. It doesn't matter if it >> can support 500W, 300W or even 200W is usually enough, but it must be >> silent. > > > I run an Enermax 500w "Liberty" in my personal studio machine. It is so > quiet that for a long time I would catch myself holding my hand by the back > of the case, on occasion, to make sure it was actually moving air at all! > It uses a 120mm fan at relatively low RPM to do the cooling. An excellent > unit. Other companies make similar hardware as well. > > As for graphics card? It is exactly as Kjetil has said, without meaning to, > I'm sure... it's *either* "a lot of heat OR a large fan". Which do you > prefer? Modern cards, at least Nvidia's, are almost dead silent in relation > to ambient noise levels in a recording enviroment. Especially if you plan > on running anything that requires OpenGL accelloration or VSTi > compatibility, as many of them are quite graphically intensive. If you run > dual monitors as I have suggested then *definately* pass on anything that > doesn't have dedicated active cooling! Anything that relies on passive > cooling (without getting into water cooling and other exotics) is just > asking for trouble in this sort of enviroment. > But even if you have a fan on your graphics card, it will still generate the same amount of heat, which will make the case hotter, and other fans to go faster. Better _not_ buy a gamer card for audio use, that is my advice. (wish I had followed that advice myself though. :-) ) Which means that gfx cards that only have passive cooling, probably are the ones to generate the least heat, and are therefore probably the best ones if you need a silent computer. From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Thu Dec 21 10:39:30 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Thu Dec 21 10:29:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] I need a better video card for the AMD64 machine Message-ID: <458AAAB2.5010300@woh.rr.com> Greetings; I'm happy as a clam in mud with my new machine, but it's developed a problem. I purchased an inexpensive nVidia-based card that's starting to behave poorly. I think the hardware itself is buggy, the display will sometimes shudder rapidly side-to-side, blurring the screen view. Sometimes it stops and stays stopped, other times it goes on until I have to reboot. The problem doesn't appear to be a heating problem, but I've decided to go for a much better card anyway. So, I want an nVidia-based card with 256 MB video RAM and a decent cooling fan, preferably under $200. Any recommendations ? Best, dp From daneasley at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 10:33:56 2006 From: daneasley at gmail.com (Dan Easley) Date: Thu Dec 21 10:34:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] New member wants to build a reliable DAW In-Reply-To: References: <20061218191437.2CD504F6DC62@music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On 12/20/06, Jon H wrote: > As for graphics card? It is exactly as Kjetil has said, without meaning to, > I'm sure... it's *either* "a lot of heat OR a large fan". Which do you > prefer? Modern cards, at least Nvidia's, are almost dead silent in relation > to ambient noise levels in a recording enviroment. Especially if you plan > on running anything that requires OpenGL accelloration or VSTi > compatibility, as many of them are quite graphically intensive. If you run > dual monitors as I have suggested then *definately* pass on anything that > doesn't have dedicated active cooling! Anything that relies on passive > cooling (without getting into water cooling and other exotics) is just > asking for trouble in this sort of enviroment. I love my Matrox G450. It's stupidly old and has few features - I don't know if it can do much 3D or not, but I don't really care. It's got two vga outs, it's passively cooled, and it doesn't seem to get in the way. I run it in a computer in a garage that I'm just now getting around to insulating - over the past summer ambient temperature was often in the mid 90's F, sometimes higher, and the computer ran 24/7 with no troubles. -- daneasley@gmail.com dan@towndowner.com dan@burntpossum.com http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com From christhemonkey at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 10:43:21 2006 From: christhemonkey at gmail.com (chris beagles) Date: Thu Dec 21 10:43:29 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] I need a better video card for the AMD64 machine In-Reply-To: <458AAAB2.5010300@woh.rr.com> References: <458AAAB2.5010300@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <79eea87e0612210743l4d0c851byd5841d76cbb69db0@mail.gmail.com> On 12/21/06, Dave Phillips wrote: > Greetings; > > I'm happy as a clam in mud with my new machine, but it's developed a > problem. I purchased an inexpensive nVidia-based card that's starting to > behave poorly. I think the hardware itself is buggy, the display will > sometimes shudder rapidly side-to-side, blurring the screen view. > Sometimes it stops and stays stopped, other times it goes on until I > have to reboot. The problem doesn't appear to be a heating problem, but > I've decided to go for a much better card anyway. > > So, I want an nVidia-based card with 256 MB video RAM and a decent > cooling fan, preferably under $200. Any recommendations ? > > Best, > > dp > > I have a nvidia geforce fx5500 hich cost me about ?60 with 256mb video RAM which has certainly done the job for me. Sometimes it does get a bit warm in my box, but i think its because i need to invest in some decent in case cooling. (or maybe just move some dust off the fans so they spin!!) Just my ?0.02 Chris From folderol at ukfsn.org Thu Dec 21 12:38:07 2006 From: folderol at ukfsn.org (Folderol) Date: Thu Dec 21 12:49:58 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Very new and unfinished In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612201744y7413817blcc0fb577d02e490e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061218230902.531c768a@general> <20061219091032.GA5581@charly.SWORD> <20061220205423.42e713ac@general> <8200bab70612201744y7413817blcc0fb577d02e490e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061221173807.47f936e8@general> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:44:24 -0500 "Chuckk Hubbard" wrote: > On 12/20/06, Folderol wrote: > > > http://www.musically.me.uk/music/East_To_West.ogg > > > > No typos this time! > > I can't load it... Did you take it down? It seems the hosting ISP had a problem today. Everything is back to normal now. -- Will J G From linux4michelle at freenet.de Thu Dec 21 12:51:06 2006 From: linux4michelle at freenet.de (Michelle Konzack) Date: Thu Dec 21 13:12:01 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: SE electronics USB2200a microphone, success report In-Reply-To: <45894326.40104@gmail.com> References: <45894326.40104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061221175106.GS762@freenet.de> Hello, I have some Workstations where ALSA does not work properly. Do you know, whether this Microphone is working correctly with OSS and kernel 2.4.24/32? And how much do you have payed for it? Greetings Michelle Konzack Am 2006-12-20 15:05:26, schrieb Atte Andr? Jensen: > Hi > > I just bought a SE electronics USB2200a microphone (a 2200a with > build-in usb sound card) and was pleasantly surprised to find that it > was instantly recognized and working out of the box with linux. > > I understand that USB sound cards are not the best to go real low in > latency, but with heavy load (13 parts in zyn, +10 tracks in ardour w fx > + specimen + seq24) I was able to go to 23ms which is the same as the > onboard on my laptop. With lighter loads it works well with lower latencies. > > Thought someone might be interested in this successful report... > ------------------------- END OF REPLIED MESSAGE ------------------------- -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/attachments/20061221/b43e953d/attachment-0001.bin From job17and9 at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 21 13:06:26 2006 From: job17and9 at sbcglobal.net (Brian Dunn) Date: Thu Dec 21 13:26:08 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] jack-rack svn won't lash In-Reply-To: References: <200612141828.04282.njcross@sbcglobal.net> <45874304.1010605@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <458ACD22.9040903@sbcglobal.net> Adam Sampson wrote: > Brian Dunn writes: > >> I've compiled the svn version of jack-rack 1.4.5rc3, because the >> 1.4.4 version is not connecting to my lash server. > > That'd be because the configure script's test for LASH was > broken. I've just fixed it; please could you give the CVS version > another go (remembering to rerun autogen.sh) and let me know if it > works for you now? > > Thanks, > You fixed it! I still have to enable lash manually when configuring, like $ ./configure --enable-lash but now it works. cool. /brian From pellenilsson at fastmail.fm Thu Dec 21 14:04:19 2006 From: pellenilsson at fastmail.fm (Pelle Nilsson) Date: Thu Dec 21 14:09:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Creating surround sound Message-ID: <87fyb92hqk.fsf@mullvaden.kicks-ass.org> Hi! Is it possible in any way to create surround sound in AC3 or DTS format for use with DVD-Video in linux? A lot of googling suggests that it's impossible, is that really so? Perhaps there is an encoder that runs with wine? I read on a page that ffmpeg can encode AC3, but only in stereo. /Pelle From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 14:08:02 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Thu Dec 21 14:15:53 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166669997.2907.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612201639x21f9c0bet6e4ebcfdbc124838@mail.gmail.com> <1166669997.2907.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <8200bab70612211108l288fe56elb2a9fb9df2b0d193@mail.gmail.com> On 12/20/06, Paul Davis wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 19:39 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > > > Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably > > > always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, > > > it's designed to work with Windows. > > > > > > On good hardware Linux should win. > > > > I heard the opposite, that Linux's advantages are especially > > noticeable on less fancy machines. But: > > that is true in the general sense that linux will run on h/w that > windows has abandoned. > > but its not the case where the problem is that the h/w is relatively > new, the chipset vendor has done nothing to facilitate a linux driver, > and nobody has had the time or motivation to reverse engineer one. this > is true for some significant bits of audio h/w. Thanks for letting me know about this. Is there documentation about this somewhere? I've never heard of it before. I was about to reply that, well, the audio works, it just has dozens of xruns a second, but then I tried a few things and I actually can't get a squawk. Pure Data from the Debian repository also gives me weird bugs when trying to test audio, but I don't know how to check whether apt is fetching a 64-bit version of it. If not, I might have to start over, because I updated some critical stuff from the same repository. I'm now being told by someone on IRC to try a newer kernel. lol, maybe 64studio is *worse* than the Debian Etch I overwrote to install it. From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 16:39:11 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Thu Dec 21 16:39:27 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166669997.2907.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612201639x21f9c0bet6e4ebcfdbc124838@mail.gmail.com> <1166669997.2907.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <8200bab70612211339x16f5dd77v7e2eed618133d5ff@mail.gmail.com> On 12/20/06, Paul Davis wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 19:39 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > > > Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably > > > always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, > > > it's designed to work with Windows. > > > > > > On good hardware Linux should win. > > > > I heard the opposite, that Linux's advantages are especially > > noticeable on less fancy machines. But: > > that is true in the general sense that linux will run on h/w that > windows has abandoned. > > but its not the case where the problem is that the h/w is relatively > new, the chipset vendor has done nothing to facilitate a linux driver, > and nobody has had the time or motivation to reverse engineer one. this > is true for some significant bits of audio h/w. > > then there is the problem of the Intel HDA "specification", which is > that in name only. it seems as if almost every new laptop that emerges > into the market has found a new way to wire the pinouts of a supposedly > "standard" HDA chipset, thus requiring more driver hacks. > > > http://www.gateway.com/home/products/ret/ret_MX6447.shtml > > Will this work? If I can't use Linux audio on this machine then I > > can't afford Linux! > > there isn't enough information there to decide. the chances are good, > but without knowing the actual audio chipset, nobody can say. According to ALSA Mixer GUI, the card is HDA ATI SB, and the chipset is SigmaTel ID 7634. I'm guessing this means a driver is there, so I'll keep trying... From steiner at block4.com Thu Dec 21 17:18:20 2006 From: steiner at block4.com (Malte Steiner) Date: Thu Dec 21 17:19:14 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> Hello, > > Wow, what did you do? I have a Turion laptop and 64studio gives me > xruns in jackd at 46.4 ms. > > Thats odd. I did nothing special and I have a rather old Turion64 mk I, just a clean install of latest 64 Studio 1.0. I started jackd (with qjackctl) with jackd -R -p128 -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 (which reads realtime mode, 64 frames, 2 Buffers, 128 ports max, no softmode, no hardwaremonitoring etc...) and it works great with the internal card. Its good for live action with PD and Zynaddsubfx synths. RME Hammerfall needs a bit more in my current configuration so it runs with 5ms which is still great in my opinion, remember that hardware midisynths can have some lag too. I remember reading for instance that the Roland D-70 had a horrible timing and the LFOs on my Casio FZ-1 Sampler get slower the more keys you press :) A full loaded Ardour session with lot of tracks need higher values because the internal hdd is certainly not the fastest. The pure install worked great with the opensource nv grafik driver which is actually a bit faster when it comes to 2d drawing. But I wanted the 3D driver badly because I do a lot of realtime 3D grafics during my live performances. The driver in the repos wanted to do strange things like deinstalling complete X11 so its not a good idea. But it was no big thing to download and run the AMD64 driverinstaller from Nvidias site. But yes, I wish it would be opensourced, but at least there is a running hardware OpenGL implementation, situation was worse in Linuxland some years ago. So first suggestion to Chuckk would be trying different jackd settings. ACPI is known to be broken because strange implementations by the manufactures. Under nonrealtime 32bit Ubuntu I needed to boot with acpi=off noacpi parameters to avoid xruns, for strange reasons I dont need it on 64 Studio anymore. Maybe a low ressource windows manager helps in your case so check out Blackbox which is in the Debian AMD64 repos. Blackbox is really bare bones so dont forget to install xterm so you can start programms. When you rightclick in the bare desktop a menu comes up with the xterm entry. Of course Blackbox can be configured to be more convinent, its just for testing. In general I am happy with 64 Studio. Nonrealtime stuff like Cinelerra is much more responsive too. What I miss are some packages but I guess they will be added/updated soon. Namely csound 5 would be great, I cant get it running at the moment. The repos holds an old 4.23 version and a pure data version without many important externals and a bug with the tablewrite function. I tried to compile on my own but failed so far, I get many errors, I already posted to the appropriate mailinglists. Some convinence laptop stuff is not working like cpu freq scaling, I guess these modules are not in the kernel and I am not sure if they belong there for a realtime system or if they beat down the performance. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: concert 29.dec 2006 Notstandskomitee vs. TBC Hoerbar Hamburg more at blog 4, also available as rss feed: http://java.block4.com/blog4/ From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Thu Dec 21 17:53:43 2006 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Thu Dec 21 17:43:32 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> Message-ID: <458B1077.4060907@woh.rr.com> Malte Steiner wrote: > In general I am happy with 64 Studio. Nonrealtime stuff like Cinelerra > is much more responsive too. What I miss are some packages but I guess > they will be added/updated soon. Namely csound 5 would be great, I > cant get it running at the moment. The repos holds an old 4.23 version > and a pure data version without many important externals and a bug > with the tablewrite function. I tried to compile on my own but failed > so far, I get many errors, I already posted to the appropriate > mailinglists. Hi Malte: I've successfully compiled Csound5 for AMD64 and 64Studio. I posted a notice on the Csound-dev mail list, IIRC you'll need to add -fPIC to the compiler flags. You'll also need to have the various dev packages for things like libsndfile support, FLTK graphics, etc. Let me know if you need further assistance. Best, dp From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 17:45:02 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Thu Dec 21 17:45:13 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> Message-ID: <8200bab70612211445o700bf503uf20d80adde4e8f61@mail.gmail.com> On 12/21/06, Malte Steiner wrote: > So first suggestion to Chuckk would be trying different jackd settings. > ACPI is known to be broken because strange implementations by the > manufactures. Under nonrealtime 32bit Ubuntu I needed to boot with > acpi=off noacpi parameters to avoid xruns, for strange reasons I dont > need it on 64 Studio anymore. > Maybe a low ressource windows manager helps in your case so check out > Blackbox which is in the Debian AMD64 repos. Blackbox is really bare > bones so dont forget to install xterm so you can start programms. When > you rightclick in the bare desktop a menu comes up with the xterm entry. > Of course Blackbox can be configured to be more convinent, its just for > testing. > > In general I am happy with 64 Studio. Nonrealtime stuff like Cinelerra > is much more responsive too. What I miss are some packages but I guess > they will be added/updated soon. Namely csound 5 would be great, I cant > get it running at the moment. The repos holds an old 4.23 version and a > pure data version without many important externals and a bug with the > tablewrite function. I tried to compile on my own but failed so far, I > get many errors, I already posted to the appropriate mailinglists. More and more I don't want to work my way through all of this. Thank you for the tips, but I'm finding now audio isn't working at all. I was able to compile Pure Data 1.40, its externals, and Csound5, but the more I think about it the less certain I am which laptop I was using. -Chuckk From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 17:50:30 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Thu Dec 21 17:50:46 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <8200bab70612211450p61f1ab40p39375d144dcff457@mail.gmail.com> On 12/18/06, Lee Revell wrote: > On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 20:27 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > On 12/15/06, Johannes Mario Ringheim wrote: > > > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > > > All this, however, is a byproduct of the fact that Linux is meant to run on > > > > everything from a washing machine to a supercomputer. Audio being a very > > > > specialized area begs for total integration of OS with specific hardware. In > > > > other words, we could definitely benefit from a vendor which specializes in > > > > professional low-latency hw/sw combo sales if we are to expect the level of > > > > polish expected from a modern OS. > > > > > > Remember that Windows also requires considerable tinkering and tweaking > > > to become a feasible audio workstation. Several people I know of have > > > more troubles with their Windows DAWs then I have with my CCRMA > > > installations. In fact I was pretty amazed with CCRMA, I set up two > > > different audio boxes in less than an hour each, complete with RT > > > patches and latest version of ardour and many other apps. > > > > I find this incredibly hard to believe. Windows works for me with no > > snags, for the most part, and I've spent countless hours wrestling > > with several Linux distros trying to get even halfway acceptable > > latency, to no avail. Recompiling kernels, applying patches, > > re-prioritizing processes, etc. Windows has been phenomenally easier > > in that department, in my experience. I hope to solve this Linux > > business once and for all over break so that I can meet some deadlines > > using it next semester and finally start telling everyone how > > wonderful it is and how foolish they were for laughing at me throwing > > away endless hours on it. > > > > What sound hardware? Are you using a cheap laptop with the onboard > sound device or something? > > Windows outperforms Linux on marginal hardware. This will probably > always be the case because such hardware is not designed to be correct, > it's designed to work with Windows. > > On good hardware Linux should win. alsamixergui loads fine, runs fine, but no sound. During boot, I get the message: hda_codec: invalid dep_range_val 0:7fff many times, and I'm told this is the problem. I can't seem to find any documentation on what this means or how to combat it, and the usual channels have no answers. From steiner at block4.com Thu Dec 21 18:02:33 2006 From: steiner at block4.com (Malte Steiner) Date: Thu Dec 21 18:03:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] 64 studio In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612211445o700bf503uf20d80adde4e8f61@mail.gmail.com> References: <4589C4D0.1090104@block4.com> <8200bab70612201758r11355c8ax5c63d49bccee9c18@mail.gmail.com> <458B082C.6080609@block4.com> <8200bab70612211445o700bf503uf20d80adde4e8f61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <458B1289.9080200@block4.com> Hello, Chuckk and Dave, please tell me how you did the compile, there is a problem with mismatching jackdevel-lib version in the Debian AMD64 repo, did it gave you trouble? Chuckk I am sorry to hear that and I am often in the same And-All-I-Wanted-Is-To-Do-Some-Music mood but it pays off. Using Linux is also a political thing for me and there is no way back. I was longtime Windows user (but I started with a Siemens Minicomputer at school learning UCSD Pascal, than C64, than Amiga, so the number 64 during the boot gives me some odd cosy feeling :) ), than Apple OSX, but I cant stand bigcompany bullshit anymore. There must be something odd with your machine and/or configuration. Maybe another distribution helps a bit, I checked out several ones in the last couple of days before I decided to go the 64 Studio route. Suse Jacklab seems to be interesting too although I cant get any lower than 10ms on the same computer with that Kernel. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: concert 29.dec 2006 Notstandskomitee vs. TBC Hoerbar Hamburg more at blog 4, also available as rss feed: http://java.block4.com/blog4/ From jesse at essej.net Thu Dec 21 18:27:09 2006 From: jesse at essej.net (Jesse Chappell) Date: Thu Dec 21 18:41:22 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Creating surround sound In-Reply-To: <87fyb92hqk.fsf@mullvaden.kicks-ass.org> References: <87fyb92hqk.fsf@mullvaden.kicks-ass.org> Message-ID: One solution is to use ac3jack ( http://essej.net/ac3jack ) which encodes AC3 from multichannel jack inputs. It uses the ffmpeg library to do the encoding right now which *can* do multichannel. The quality is average, probably not comparable to what you get out of commercial encoders and what you hear on hollywood DVDs. jlc On 12/21/06, Pelle Nilsson wrote: > Hi! > > Is it possible in any way to create surround sound in AC3 or DTS > format for use with DVD-Video in linux? A lot of googling suggests > that it's impossible, is that really so? Perhaps there is an encoder > that runs with wine? I read on a page that ffmpeg can encode AC3, but > only in stereo. > > /Pelle > From rlrevell at joe-job.com Thu Dec 21 18:39:08 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Thu Dec 21 18:55:51 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <8200bab70612211450p61f1ab40p39375d144dcff457@mail.gmail.com> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612211450p61f1ab40p39375d144dcff457@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166744348.7447.10.camel@mindpipe> On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 17:50 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > alsamixergui loads fine, runs fine, but no sound. > During boot, I get the message: > hda_codec: invalid dep_range_val 0:7fff > many times, and I'm told this is the problem. I can't seem to find > any documentation on what this means or how to combat it, and the > usual channels have no answers. > > As Paul pointed out, Intel HDA stuff is a mess. It's not the fault of Linux but of the hardware which was designed to be as cheap as possible. My advice to you is to get a good soundcard. Lee From atte.jensen at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 18:44:04 2006 From: atte.jensen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=) Date: Thu Dec 21 18:58:39 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: SE electronics USB2200a microphone, success report In-Reply-To: <20061221175106.GS762@freenet.de> References: <45894326.40104@gmail.com> <20061221175106.GS762@freenet.de> Message-ID: <458B1C44.5000701@gmail.com> Michelle Konzack wrote: > I have some Workstations where ALSA does not work properly. Do you know, > whether this Microphone is working correctly with OSS and kernel 2.4.24/32? Don't know, haven't run 2.4 for three years... But if it supports usb-audio I would think so. > And how much do you have payed for it? 2.600 dkr, which should be around 350 euro... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk | compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions From badmuthahubbard at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 19:15:26 2006 From: badmuthahubbard at gmail.com (Chuckk Hubbard) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:17:18 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166744348.7447.10.camel@mindpipe> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612211450p61f1ab40p39375d144dcff457@mail.gmail.com> <1166744348.7447.10.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <8200bab70612211615h52905dcah6628ddb09798efbe@mail.gmail.com> On 12/21/06, Lee Revell wrote: > On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 17:50 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > alsamixergui loads fine, runs fine, but no sound. > > During boot, I get the message: > > hda_codec: invalid dep_range_val 0:7fff > > many times, and I'm told this is the problem. I can't seem to find > > any documentation on what this means or how to combat it, and the > > usual channels have no answers. > > > > > > As Paul pointed out, Intel HDA stuff is a mess. It's not the fault of > Linux but of the hardware which was designed to be as cheap as possible. > My advice to you is to get a good soundcard. I don't think I can afford Linux then. I forgot to mention it's a laptop. My mistake buying it... -Chuckk From steiner at block4.com Thu Dec 21 19:27:11 2006 From: steiner at block4.com (Malte Steiner) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:27:21 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Creating surround sound In-Reply-To: References: <87fyb92hqk.fsf@mullvaden.kicks-ass.org> Message-ID: <458B265F.8070509@block4.com> Cinelerra has some surround panning options and offers to render it to ac3 but I didnt tested it yet. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: concert 29.dec 2006 Notstandskomitee vs. TBC Hoerbar Hamburg more at blog 4, also available as rss feed: http://java.block4.com/blog4/ From lanas at securenet.net Thu Dec 21 19:03:58 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:28:20 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Ardour's click Message-ID: <20061221190358.7731b822@mistral.stie> Folks, How can I hear Ardour's click signal ? I'm using a MAudio 1010LT and once the click button is pressed in Ardour I can see a corresponding signal in envy24control PCM Out 5 view meter. And in fact, the click out in connected to playback5 in qjackctl. Raising the volume of the PCM Out 5 does nothing. Do I have to run a physical wire from that 1010LT output to benefit from this option? If so, I only have a pair of stereo speakers connected to outputs 1 and 2. Thanks, Al From lanas at securenet.net Thu Dec 21 19:16:38 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:31:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061220202246.e67b1a0d.jh@brainiac.com> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> <20061220202246.e67b1a0d.jh@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <20061221191638.59041789@mistral.stie> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:22:46 -0500 Joe Hartley ?crivait: >> Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using >> Ardour ? > I usually add an insert to the master channel in Ardour and connect it > to JAMin. Then when it sounds the way I want, I simply do an export. That sounds (pardon the pun) good. I gave it a try but got terrible results. Here's how I tried it (Ardour is installed in French, so I translate the terms, please adjust if necesscelery ! ;-) In the mixer window I clicked on 'output' and then 'edit' so that I get the 'output master' dialog box in which we see options such as 'add an output', 'remove an output', 'disconnect the whole thing'. In the tabs there's one for JAMin since it's already up and running. I click on the JAMin tab, and add something and then the sound goes way out of control. So on so forth. Better yet, is there a web page somewhere out there that explicitly describes the steps to do this kind of audio manipulations using these very precise tools ? If you know, please lettuce know ! ;-) Cheers, Al From jh at brainiac.com Thu Dec 21 19:37:17 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:37:25 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Ardour's click In-Reply-To: <20061221190358.7731b822@mistral.stie> References: <20061221190358.7731b822@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <20061221193717.e66ba3e0.jh@brainiac.com> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:03:58 -0500 lanas wrote: > How can I hear Ardour's click signal ? > > I'm using a MAudio 1010LT and once the click button is pressed in > Ardour I can see a corresponding signal in envy24control PCM Out 5 > view meter. There's a click tab in the options window, and in it you can assign the channel the click plays on. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From lanas at securenet.net Thu Dec 21 19:41:06 2006 From: lanas at securenet.net (lanas) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:39:40 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] The BIG picture Message-ID: <20061221194106.13d5b88f@mistral.stie> Folks, Is there any web site out there that details - dare I say for dummies - how to do the WHOLE thing using the tools we have access to ? 1) The tools You know, the Linux audio tools which may include Ardour, Rezound, Zyn, Linux Sampler, JAMin, MuSE, cdrecord, etc... 2) The WHOLE thing That is, to plug in the keyboard in the MIDI port. To record and/or sequence a track or two or three. To mike the guitar or accoustic bass or flute or sax or whatever and add tracks. To have mixing techniques that takes into consideration sound characteristics. To have mixdown techniques that promotes a leveled approach to 'sound' mix. Apart from taking courses in an audio recording school (of which there are several around) is there a web site or two that specifically adresses audio techniques using Linux audio tools ? Al From rlrevell at joe-job.com Thu Dec 21 19:40:33 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:41:04 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Ardour's click In-Reply-To: <20061221190358.7731b822@mistral.stie> References: <20061221190358.7731b822@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <1166748034.7447.16.camel@mindpipe> On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 19:03 -0500, lanas wrote: > Folks, > > How can I hear Ardour's click signal ? > > I'm using a MAudio 1010LT and once the click button is pressed in > Ardour I can see a corresponding signal in envy24control PCM Out 5 > view meter. And in fact, the click out in connected to playback5 in > qjackctl. Raising the volume of the PCM Out 5 does nothing. Do I > have to run a physical wire from that 1010LT output to benefit from > this option? If so, I only have a pair of stereo speakers connected to > outputs 1 and 2. I think the PCM output ports correspond to the physical outputs on the card. So you have to connect the click out to output 1 and/or 2. Lee From rlrevell at joe-job.com Thu Dec 21 19:44:45 2006 From: rlrevell at joe-job.com (Lee Revell) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:44:45 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] The BIG picture In-Reply-To: <20061221194106.13d5b88f@mistral.stie> References: <20061221194106.13d5b88f@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <1166748285.7447.20.camel@mindpipe> On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 19:41 -0500, lanas wrote: > 2) The WHOLE thing > > That is, to plug in the keyboard in the MIDI port. To record > and/or sequence a track or two or three. To mike the guitar or > accoustic bass or flute or sax or whatever and add tracks. To > have mixing techniques that takes into consideration sound > characteristics. To have mixdown techniques that promotes a > leveled approach to 'sound' mix. > Get a good book on doing this stuff with Pro Tools - the vast majority of the material will be relevant to Ardour. Lee From ken at restivo.org Thu Dec 21 19:47:28 2006 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:48:03 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Real-time kernel In-Reply-To: <1166744348.7447.10.camel@mindpipe> References: <009d01c72012$508cbf90$0202a8c0@64BitBadass> <45829489.60504@broadpark.no> <8200bab70612181727t6e4c58eewdb63472586af9c65@mail.gmail.com> <1166492586.17059.134.camel@mindpipe> <8200bab70612211450p61f1ab40p39375d144dcff457@mail.gmail.com> <1166744348.7447.10.camel@mindpipe> Message-ID: <20061222004728.GA5829@bc.restivo.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's bleak. I bought a Mac Mini to do audio on. It's got the dreaded hda_intel chip. But with kernel 2.4.18 it works fine. Fine meaning: there's still some xruns, but not enough to slow me down too much. Right now I haven't been able to get it to actually *record*, but since I'm mostly doing all-digital stuff right now it hasn't gotten in my way. Yet. I suppose if I do any serious work I'll get one of those firewire audio external boxes like the FA-66, which aren't too expensive last I checked. - -ken - -------------- On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 06:39:08PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote: > On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 17:50 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > alsamixergui loads fine, runs fine, but no sound. > > During boot, I get the message: > > hda_codec: invalid dep_range_val 0:7fff > > many times, and I'm told this is the problem. I can't seem to find > > any documentation on what this means or how to combat it, and the > > usual channels have no answers. > > > > > > As Paul pointed out, Intel HDA stuff is a mess. It's not the fault of > Linux but of the hardware which was designed to be as cheap as possible. > My advice to you is to get a good soundcard. > > Lee -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFiysge8HF+6xeOIcRAlycAJ9Hw3RL3HtbNSz5VcxUHtjqVmDgrgCgoYRa o/Gk4/AhMnqKNvAJMak0duo= =P7dc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jh at brainiac.com Thu Dec 21 19:53:25 2006 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:53:41 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Just JAMin In-Reply-To: <20061221191638.59041789@mistral.stie> References: <20061220194849.5a8364a5@mistral.stie> <20061220202246.e67b1a0d.jh@brainiac.com> <20061221191638.59041789@mistral.stie> Message-ID: <20061221195325.e251f6ea.jh@brainiac.com> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:16:38 -0500 lanas wrote: > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:22:46 -0500 > Joe Hartley ?crivait: > > >> Is there an easier way to record a JAMin mix than by using > >> Ardour ? > > > I usually add an insert to the master channel in Ardour and connect it > > to JAMin. Then when it sounds the way I want, I simply do an export. > > In the mixer window I clicked on 'output' and then 'edit' so that I > get the 'output master' dialog box in which we see options such as 'add > an output', 'remove an output', 'disconnect the whole thing'. Close, but not quite. First, it's important to make sure that you start jamin with the -p option. By default, it starts with its ports mapped by default to the alsa_pcm I/O ports (I think). The -p argument starts it with all ports unconnected. To add the insert, right-click in the big black area over the master fader. Choose New Insert, then click on the new insert (insert 1) and right-click to choose edit. Conect outputs 1&2 on the left to the Jamin in_L and in_R ports, and do the same with the inputs on the right. Jamin is now in the signal path just before the master fader. Have at it! -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh@brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From ken at restivo.org Thu Dec 21 19:54:34 2006 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Thu Dec 21 19:55:17 2006 Subject: [linux-audio-user] LASH is making me crazy Message-ID: <20061222005434.GB5829@bc.restivo.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 LASH has me stuck in an endless loop. It's running, and several daemons and programs are talking to it (fluidsynth, f'rinstance). But I can't figure out how to use it or what to do with it. I fire up lash_control. I try to create a new project. I type in "help"... there are lots of commands, but "NEW" isn't one of them? Fine, then, maybe I'll just save the current state. I type in save and a name. It tells me, "No project selected". Oh K... I type in "list", and it tells me, "No projects". Fine then, dammit, maybe I cna name this thing, so I type "name thisprojectsomething", and it tells me.... wait for it... "No project selected". Goddammit, I'm screaming now, how the hell can I select a project then if you won't let me create one??! Where do projects *come* from, anyway, does the stork bring them? Maybe I have to set the directory, so I type in "dir /path/to/my/project". But it is not to be. I'm told, and I'm sure you can guess this now, "No project selected". The GUI LASH client gives me the same song and dance, but with dialog boxes and greyed-out options instead of the ubiquitous "No project selected" message instead. Basically, what I want to do, is to save the current state of all my LASH-enabled apps, some