[music-dsp] [ot] [!nt] \n2+0\

[Garry Kling]

on 19/10/2001 03:22 AM, piter pasma ..ritz at ritz_rvl at yahoo.com wrote:

> i'm slightly interested now, because of all that stupid media
> cnn propaganda i hear all the time.. [and which i am severely
> doubting]

It is obvious the whole American media is colluding with the government. The
LA time sometimes runs critical editorials, but mostly it's too good
natured. Once CNN, Brokaw, and all the others call for action, they
basically determine media policy towards the war.

> the only thing i ever heard about ppl in america that are against
> the war was during a show of larry king live (which is pretty
> obnoxious anyway) where some guy said something along the lines of
> "yes, well we can't shut up those people who are against the war
> because we have freedom of speech. this OFCOURSE doesn't mean we
> should pay any attention to them"...

The Anti-Terrorism bill the congress just passed has some very serious
provisions in it. I'm very worried that they passed it to prepare for the
backlash which is sure to come as the war presses on.

> 
> so how do these movements realize themselves? are there people
> demonstrating on the streets in the US, too? [just like we are
> in the Netherlands, and in Germany (germany too, right?)]
> are there as much discussion forums going on in the us, as there
> are here?

I'm at in Santa Barbara at the University of California. You bet there are
rallies and protests at various UC campuses. But the attitude towards them
is a very familiar one that dates back to the 60's. Crazy students - they
just don't understand. Once they get out in the "real world" and have been
around the block, they'll sing a different tune.

I work in an office on campus which has been sponsoring roundtable
discussions involving religious leaders from around California, free speech
advocates, civil rights advocates, political activists, and political
leaders. The forums are very well attended, but I think they are a function
of the university community. They have been televised locally, and I think
they will soon be rebroadcast on CSPAN at some point.

I can't really speak to events around the country though, if there is
reporting on them, it's mainly a footnote. But I have heard of protests in
San Fran, LA, Seattle, and Chicago. It might be nice to point out that
during the gulf war there was a huge protest in San Fran that was not
reported at all on the national news here.

> do you see posters and slogans hanging in the streets of big cities
> with texts like "stop the war" and "an eye for an eye, and everybody
> goes blind"? 

"Killing Afghans is not the answer" "Revenge is for terrorists" "War is not
justice"

> it's really too bad that the us has a two-party system, because
> here there are actually official political parties [not so big
> ones, but they still have influence, and they are going to gain
> A LOT of votes next election, i'd guess] that are publicly opposed
> to the war.

This is the thing that pisses me off the most. When Republicans talk about
"bi-partisanship" they only mean they want the democrats to "play ball". Now
it seems they have their wish. Not only do we have only two parties, one of
them has rolled over so the other can scratch its belly. The US has gone
right in the last 10 years faster than before. There is the Green Party, but
it's hard for them to get media coverage. I don't even know what they're
saying now. America is a one-party system with two right wings.

> these are just my observations in my own country/city, so there is
> probably much more going on.. what is happening in america, except
> for the occasional CNN-interviewee saying "nuke the fuckers" ?

The left is being blamed by some for causing the attacks:

http://www.pfaw.org/911/robertson_falwell.shtml

It's all swept under the rug. The media wants to cover the war-revenge
machine as it rolls forward without regard to the future or history. Being
in California, there will naturally be more activism and dissent. But, I
would have to say that the majority of people with families, jobs, and money
are more concerned about the economy than about the war. I won't say that
there is as much solidarity as they are portraying in the media. This
censorship is not government sponsored, it's media sponsored. But I hate to
say it, a lot of Americans are just as callous as NN and anyone else would
like to think they are. But I think anti - US sentiments have to walk a very
thin line between criticism of our gov't policy and personal attack, which
isn't productive. Americans are just uneducated and tools of the media.

While there is popular support of action against the terrorists, it is far
from unanimous

> [totally off-topic, i know.. but i don't get to speak with as much
> americans every day]

I'm glad your calling for dialogue. The events in Europe, as you might
expect, are getting even less coverage.

To clarify, I think the food packages make Bush look ridiculous, and he
doesn't even realize it. How stupid. If they really want to do them good,
they need to get on the ground - with the UN - in front of cameras and the
eyes of the world - and feed them. Dropping crappy food in the desert
doesn't help much.

Lastly, I want to thank the terrorists. Who ruined the politics in this
country forever, and invited our government to Afghanistan to screw things
up there. Thanks a lot, assholes.

Garry Kling

PS. Sorry for even more OT posts. But dialogue is important. I'll take it
off-list next time...


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